Author Topic: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?  (Read 56587 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #165 on: January 03, 2018, 05:16:26 PM »
If you look at how the boxes are drawn, it is clear to my eye that the pictures relate to the 2013 trial.
The information about the Supreme court is in a box of its own at the top. There are clear lines dividing it from what comes below.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline sadie

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #166 on: January 03, 2018, 05:21:18 PM »

-snip-

Your interest in bloodlines isn't shared by others, Sadie, and the influence you think they exert is just speculation in my opinion.
It is a shame that no-one takes notice of the bloodlines, historical connections and bretheren cos IMO they are part of the key to this whole case.

Just one person on this forum was wide enough awake to think laterally, rather than stick to the staid vertical thinking ... and she is the best sleuth on this forum IMO.  Unhappily she is not around atm.


Such a shame that no-one is interested ... there are so many links, including people on this forum.   But then we couldn't openly discuss many, because names are involved

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #167 on: January 03, 2018, 05:23:47 PM »
There is a block of 13 photogrphs and one drawing (of Judge Maria Emilia de Melo e Castro) on the page I cited.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AnneGuedes.htm


The block of photographs is underneath the section headed Supreme Court 31 Jan 2017 and as it is close to that section, it appears to be of the Lawyers, translators, Judge etc of the Supreme Court.  I believe it to be images of the main legal players in that Supreme Court and not of the lesser Court proceedings some three years previously..

To prove this, I would have to go thru all the court papers .... and as I have no intention of wasting my time doing that ... and neither have I the intention of spreading possibly incorrect info, I am going to modify my posts on this topic.

I will say that Anne Guedes and Pamalam present those photos as being of the legal participants in the Supreme Court trial, and if they are not, they should please take care to alter the presentation.   Because if they are not the legal participants in the Supreme court, they are misleading as they stand
This may or may not help Sadie but on page 75 of the judgement there are 3 signatures which are not translated These could be the names of the three SC judges.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/A/Acordao_Page_75.jpg
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Offline Angelo222

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #168 on: January 03, 2018, 05:51:04 PM »
Go to the top of the class Robitty.  Judges signing their decision document is normal procedure.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #169 on: January 03, 2018, 06:12:27 PM »
Go to the top of the class Robitty.  Judges signing their decision document is normal procedure.
In my days of being a civil servant we had to use our name written in full (rubber block stamp) as well as our signature.  People in the know may be able to work out who these 3 judges were but most would find it impossible to read their signatures.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 06:48:01 PM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #170 on: January 03, 2018, 06:42:45 PM »
There is a block of 13 photogrphs and one drawing (of Judge Maria Emilia de Melo e Castro) on the page I cited.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AnneGuedes.htm


The block of photographs is underneath the section headed Supreme Court 31 Jan 2017 and as it is close to that section, it appears to be of the Lawyers, translators, Judge etc of the Supreme Court.  I believe it to be images of the main legal players in that Supreme Court and not of the lesser Court proceedings some three years previously..

To prove this, I would have to go thru all the court papers .... and as I have no intention of wasting my time doing that ... and neither have I the intention of spreading possibly incorrect info, I am going to modify my posts on this topic.

I will say that Anne Guedes and Pamalam present those photos as being of the legal participants in the Supreme Court trial, and if they are not, they should please take care to alter the presentation.   Because if they are not the legal participants in the Supreme court, they are misleading as they stand

As I understand it there were three judges involved in the Supreme Court decision, so why would only one be mentioned? Because she was the (single) judge in the Libel Trial.

I think the only people present at the Supreme Court were the judges, no lawyers or translators attended.

It would be very unusual for a judge in the lower court to be a Supreme Court judge too. It would be even more unusual for any judge to be involved in criticising their own judgement.

That little bit of knowledge helped me to work out what I was seeing.

Artist impression of the Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro
Judge McCann V Amaral Libel trial 2014.Recently named trainer magistrate

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AnneGuedes.htm
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Offline sadie

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #171 on: January 03, 2018, 07:12:25 PM »
This may or may not help Sadie but on page 75 of the judgement there are 3 signatures which are not translated These could be the names of the three SC judges.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/A/Acordao_Page_75.jpg

Thank you Rob  8((()*/

I did see these but could not make sense of the signatures nor what the document was saying

Offline sadie

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #172 on: January 03, 2018, 07:19:13 PM »
As I understand it there were three judges involved in the Supreme Court decision, so why would only one be mentioned? Because she was the (single) judge in the Libel Trial.

I think the only people present at the Supreme Court were the judges, no lawyers or translators attended.

It would be very unusual for a judge in the lower court to be a Supreme Court judge too. It would be even more unusual for any judge to be involved in criticising their own judgement.

That little bit of knowledge helped me to work out what I was seeing.

Artist impression of the Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro
Judge McCann V Amaral Libel trial 2014.Recently named trainer magistrate

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AnneGuedes.htm

Yep it clearly states that the artists impression was pertinent to the 2014 libel trial, but it also shows the same image amongst the photos of what apprear to be the legal people in the Supreme Court.  So it is not clear.

Anyway i have modified my posts in case I am wrong.  I would not like to spread disinformation.  Thank you for your input.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #173 on: January 03, 2018, 10:12:02 PM »
This may or may not help Sadie but on page 75 of the judgement there are 3 signatures which are not translated These could be the names of the three SC judges.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/A/Acordao_Page_75.jpg


The names of the Supreme Court Judges were;

Roque Nogueira
Alexandre Reis
Pedro Lima Gonçalves
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Offline Carana

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #174 on: January 03, 2018, 10:52:31 PM »
Well that was my first take  ?{)(**

Finally, the PJ called. They told the McCanns they would be made official suspects - arguidos. The McCanns had noted the change of mood in Portugal, especially among the PJ, and the increasing viciousness of the Portuguese press. Some of the stories seemed so incredible and far-fetched - Kate, for instance, disposing of Madeleine's body, or Madeleine's DNA being found in the car the McCanns had hired three weeks after Madeleine disappeared - that I at first assumed they were the fanciful inventions of an unfettered press. I soon realised how well they reflected the thinking of the PJ. More recently I have discovered the stories were being fed to the press by the PJ, from the highest ranks. So much for judicial secrecy. One Portuguese journalist told me that segredo de justica - secrecy of justice - was like the speed limit. Everyone knows the law; nobody keeps to it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kate-and-gerry-mccann-beyond-the-smears-8hlc6qx7k70


With thanks to the person who helped me find it again.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #175 on: January 04, 2018, 09:05:11 AM »
David James Smith  seems to have been confided in by the McCanns. He got lots of details from them despite their claims that they observed the secrecy laws. He seems to know who it was who told them to show no emotion in public;

Jim Gamble, chief executive of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, told them that if the abductor was watching he or she might take pleasure in the McCanns’ distress.

A bit of misinformation here?

there were, apparently, obvious signs that an intruder had been there. What they were, however, is not clear. Apart from the open window and shutter, neither the McCanns nor the police have confirmed any other evidence of a break-in.

From the beginning the McCanns had been warned by the PJ that they could not speak about the details of the investigation or the circumstances of Madeleine’s disappearance. The "secrecy of justice" laws prevented anybody involved, including all police officers and witnesses, from talking about it to the press or anyone else. Both Gerry and Kate were meticulous in observing this rule.


Apart from telling this reporter all about it?
09 September 2007
Victims of the rumour mill? Timesonline
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id96.htm

As the reporter tells us;

That week in Praia da Luz, the week the McCanns were made suspects in their own daughter's "death", I was out there talking to them and to family and friends.

He's another one who believes the McCanns are innocent and, like everyone else, he is relying purely on his instincts, not on any evidence;

To me, the McCanns are genuine people in the grip of despair – the accusations against them are ludicrous and a cruel distraction from the search for their daughter.

Some of the things he says are almost beyond belief;

They were first to the table at the restaurant at 8.35 and spent some minutes talking to a couple from Hertfordshire – two more tennis players – at the next table, who were eating with their young children. As they chatted, Gerry thought how lucky he was, his children asleep nearby, he and Kate free to come and enjoy some adult time at the restaurant and not have to sit with their children, as this couple were.

[/b]

Lucky or neglectful? 

Ah! The source of that little gem;

Earlier that week the McCanns had used a key to go in through the front door next to the children’s bedroom but, worrying the noise might wake the children, they began using the patio doors, leaving them unlocked.

It perhaps needs to be stated openly that all these timings and details, the way in which they weave and dovetail together, are based on witness accounts – corroborated not just by the McCann group but by others, such as Jes Wilkins


Really? Which 'others'? Wilkins was very precise; between 8.45 and 9.15 lol. Interesting;

Four times that night they put in calls via the British consul; four times the message came back from the PJ, a message that the McCanns would never forget: “Everything that can be done is being done.”

The twins slept on like logs, just as they always did at home, though even their parents were fleetingly worried – had they been sedated by an abductor' – that they should be quite so comatose.


Is that the logs who are likely to be awakened by someone unlocking a door? A passing shot at Amaral;

Sol’s journalist Felicia Cabrita had their names and phone numbers and details from their witness statements. She had called them all, and at least one other witness, Jes Wilkins.

The information had been handed to Cabrita by the police – she says she acquired the material through good journalism, which in a sense it was – and her source is widely believed by her colleagues to have been the former head of the inquiry, Goncalo Amaral.


Here's a snippet that the PJ can't be blamed for leaking. Where did that come from;

Leicestershire police have apparently paid for all the forensic tests being carried out in the case by the FSS – they are the client in the case, not the Portuguese.

Was there diplomatic pressure from the UK? He seems happy to accept that there was;

the Portuguese government and in turn the PJ had felt the heavy weight of diplomatic pressure from the UK – a pressure that the police and the journalists very much resented, with its implication that the police were not doing their job properly.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/9dec7/TIMES_16_12_07.htm













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Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #176 on: January 04, 2018, 09:28:41 AM »
David James Smith  seems to have been confided in by the McCanns. He got lots of details from them despite their claims that they observed the secrecy laws. He seems to know who it was who told them to show no emotion in public;

Jim Gamble, chief executive of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, told them that if the abductor was watching he or she might take pleasure in the McCanns’ distress.

A bit of misinformation here?

there were, apparently, obvious signs that an intruder had been there. What they were, however, is not clear. Apart from the open window and shutter, neither the McCanns nor the police have confirmed any other evidence of a break-in.

From the beginning the McCanns had been warned by the PJ that they could not speak about the details of the investigation or the circumstances of Madeleine’s disappearance. The "secrecy of justice" laws prevented anybody involved, including all police officers and witnesses, from talking about it to the press or anyone else. Both Gerry and Kate were meticulous in observing this rule.


Apart from telling this reporter all about it?
09 September 2007
Victims of the rumour mill? Timesonline
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id96.htm

As the reporter tells us;

That week in Praia da Luz, the week the McCanns were made suspects in their own daughter's "death", I was out there talking to them and to family and friends.

He's another one who believes the McCanns are innocent and, like everyone else, he is relying purely on his instincts, not on any evidence;

To me, the McCanns are genuine people in the grip of despair – the accusations against them are ludicrous and a cruel distraction from the search for their daughter.

Some of the things he says are almost beyond belief;

They were first to the table at the restaurant at 8.35 and spent some minutes talking to a couple from Hertfordshire – two more tennis players – at the next table, who were eating with their young children. As they chatted, Gerry thought how lucky he was, his children asleep nearby, he and Kate free to come and enjoy some adult time at the restaurant and not have to sit with their children, as this couple were.

[/b]

Lucky or neglectful? 

Ah! The source of that little gem;

Earlier that week the McCanns had used a key to go in through the front door next to the children’s bedroom but, worrying the noise might wake the children, they began using the patio doors, leaving them unlocked.

It perhaps needs to be stated openly that all these timings and details, the way in which they weave and dovetail together, are based on witness accounts – corroborated not just by the McCann group but by others, such as Jes Wilkins


Really? Which 'others'? Wilkins was very precise; between 8.45 and 9.15 lol. Interesting;

Four times that night they put in calls via the British consul; four times the message came back from the PJ, a message that the McCanns would never forget: “Everything that can be done is being done.”

The twins slept on like logs, just as they always did at home, though even their parents were fleetingly worried – had they been sedated by an abductor' – that they should be quite so comatose.


Is that the logs who are likely to be awakened by someone unlocking a door? A passing shot at Amaral;

Sol’s journalist Felicia Cabrita had their names and phone numbers and details from their witness statements. She had called them all, and at least one other witness, Jes Wilkins.

The information had been handed to Cabrita by the police – she says she acquired the material through good journalism, which in a sense it was – and her source is widely believed by her colleagues to have been the former head of the inquiry, Goncalo Amaral.


Here's a snippet that the PJ can't be blamed for leaking. Where did that come from;

Leicestershire police have apparently paid for all the forensic tests being carried out in the case by the FSS – they are the client in the case, not the Portuguese.

Was there diplomatic pressure from the UK? He seems happy to accept that there was;

the Portuguese government and in turn the PJ had felt the heavy weight of diplomatic pressure from the UK – a pressure that the police and the journalists very much resented, with its implication that the police were not doing their job properly.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/9dec7/TIMES_16_12_07.htm

Im happy to accept what he says...but are you...you believe the above, but he also said this...and he spent a lot of time with them..


To me, the McCanns are genuine people in the grip of despair – the accusations against them are ludicrous and a cruel distraction from the search for their daughter

Offline Brietta

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #177 on: January 04, 2018, 09:54:36 AM »
Im happy to accept what he says...but are you...you believe the above, but he also said this...and he spent a lot of time with them..


To me, the McCanns are genuine people in the grip of despair – the accusations against them are ludicrous and a cruel distraction from the search for their daughter

I think it is just something in human nature that some folk prefer to believe the worst of individuals they have decided for some reason or other not to like.
All without any knowledge of the situation or without true understanding of events.

It is real people's lives we are playing with here ... not an episode of a soap opera set in sunny Portugal.

Whatever ... in my opinion the fact that such minutiae is still being pored over with prejudice eleven years into that family's continued search for their missing daughter ... must be horribly unique and as far as I am concerned very disturbing.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #178 on: January 04, 2018, 10:08:00 AM »
Fortunately the outcome of this case is not dependent upon people's opinion.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #179 on: January 04, 2018, 10:18:56 AM »
Fortunately the outcome of this case is not dependent upon people's opinion.

It may have ... it is impossible to quantify what the effect Goncalo Amaral's opinion might have had in the golden hours and early days of Madeleine's disappearance.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....