Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?

[Robittybob1]

I've looked back at the posts you have quoted and just don't see that...simply people saying it is understood....and a source says....that is not confirmation of anything

Nothing about the mat having been removed?  I was certain that was the thread.

[Mr Gray]

It doesnt really matter. G said she couldnt understand how a soup of 3 popeles dna could form but the wet cloth expalins how it could. There is often a simple explanation...its just finding it.

[Carana]

Nothing about the mat having been removed?  I was certain that was the thread.

I think it was a different thread, Rob. I seem to remember several of us listening when Keela was in the boot. From memory, I did find it sounded like her paw nails on a metallic surface. I don't remember having noticed the sound before - always something new.

Something's just dawned on me, but I could be wrong.

But then one of us (hint, would you mind? lol) will have to go through that again to get stills of exactly where she alerted (or pinpoint the range of frames). From memory, she pointed at the vertical panel. I can't remember whether she also alerted to any spot on the metal surface of the boot, but I seem to remember that the lighting was bad and we couldn't quite work it out.

It's not entirely clear as it was retranslated into English.

What I don't get is that if her alert was to the plastic (presumably vertical panel), and if the fabric object is indeed a mat, but which had been taken out (between Eddie barking by the door and Keela going in, the car had been taken to a different floor for the forensic guys to do their stuff), then there is no record that I can find that she ever actually alerted to the mat. IFF that's the case, then there never was an indication of blood on the mat.

I can understand that it would have been sent off, as she appears to have alerted to the plastic side panel thingy, and so I guess it would be logical to see if there was any useful DNA on the mat thing (assuming that that is what it was).

ETA: The ref no. ending in (1) appears to be the fabric thing and the one ending in (2) the plastic bit.

286C/2007-CRL10 Baggage compartment
This object comprised two sections of the baggage compartment of the Renault Scenic, the first being a baggage compartment lined with fabric with ventilation holes (designated in the UK laboratory as CRL/10(1)) and, the second a moulded plastic extension (designated in the laboratory as CRL/10(2)).

A mixed, low-level DNA result, appearing to be from at least three people, was obtained from the cellular material collected (harvested) from the baggage compartment lined with fabric (286C/2007-CRL/10(1)) of the motor vehicle. That sample was submitted to tests to obtain DNA profiles through the LCN technique.

A DNA result through the LCN technique, which appeared to be from at least three persons, was obtained from the cellular material collected (harvested) from the baggage compartment lined with fabric (286C/2007-CRL/10(1)). In my opinion, this result is too complex to make a meaningful interpretation.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 8

The attempt to obtain a DNA profile from any cellular material collected from the plastic area on the baggage compartment (286C/2007-CRL /10(2)) was unfruitful [fruitless, in vain, useless, unproductive, unsuccessful], because no DNA profile was obtained.

A mixed, low-level DNA result, that appeared to be from at least two persons, was obtained from a second area of the baggage compartment plastic (286C/2007-CRL /10(2)). This sample was submitted for tests to obtain DNA profiles through LCN.

A DNA result by complex LCN that appeared to be from at least three persons, was obtained from cellular material collected on the section of the baggage compartment 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. In my opinion, that result is too complex for a meaningful interpretation.

An incomplete, low-level DNA profile that matched corresponding components in the profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material present on the card key -  (286C/2007-CRL (12)).
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

[pathfinder73]

There was not blood from 3 different people. One person's blood made Keela alert.

"Thus, the Renault Scenic vehicle was moved to parking level -3 and subjected to an expert examination by officers from the Police Science Laboratory and another canine inspection that began at 03h49 on 7 August 2007 by the dog Keela, that detects traces of human blood, it having been verified the following result:
03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage compartment of the car;"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

Number 10

[Mr Gray]

There was not blood from 3 different people. One person's blood made Keela alert.

"Thus, the Renault Scenic vehicle was moved to parking level -3 and subjected to an expert examination by officers from the Police Science Laboratory and another canine inspection that began at 03h49 on 7 August 2007 by the dog Keela, that detects traces of human blood, it having been verified the following result:
03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage compartment of the car;"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

Number 10

it hasnt been confirmed as blood

[Carana]

There was not blood from 3 different people. One person's blood made Keela alert.

"Thus, the Renault Scenic vehicle was moved to parking level -3 and subjected to an expert examination by officers from the Police Science Laboratory and another canine inspection that began at 03h49 on 7 August 2007 by the dog Keela, that detects traces of human blood, it having been verified the following result:
03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage compartment of the car;"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

Number 10

I'm still confused.

fabric with ventilation holes (designated in the UK laboratory as CRL/10(1)) and, the second a moulded plastic extension (designated in the laboratory as CRL/10(2)).

10 (1) must be the side panel then (the only obvious object with ventilation holes).

So what exactly was the "plastic extension"? That doesn't seem to correspond to a mat.

[Carana]

On the other hand, if that black rectangular object was plastic, that could explain the soound of pawprints. But then that's not a potentially absorbent fibre-covered mat.

[pathfinder73]

it hasnt been confirmed as blood

Keela only alerts to blood.

Q: I know you don’t want to go into detail but are there more forensic tests, is that what is going on?

MR: I’m not going to talk about detail of the type of work going on but there are critical lines of enquiry
of great interest to ourselves and our Portuguese counterparts and there are some significant
investigative avenues we are pursuing that we see as very worthwhile.

http://news.met.police.uk/documents/transcript-of-interview-with-ac-mark-rowley-66743

The forensic evidence gathered at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance has been stored at the National Institute for Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences in Coimbra in central Portugal.

Detectives and forensic technicians from the Metropolitan police are scheduled to visit the laboratory on Wednesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/13/madeleine-mccann-forensic-scientists-portugal

[Miss Taken Identity]

What have we learned from the Maddie case?

some have learned that celebrities have their following of ardent fans who are prepared to believe anything. some people still believe Elvis is not dead and is working under cover for the FBI.  mmm yeah I know.

I have come to this conclusion by reading the many theories put forward by supporters of the McCanns.

[Carana]

There was not blood from 3 different people. One person's blood made Keela alert.

"Thus, the Renault Scenic vehicle was moved to parking level -3 and subjected to an expert examination by officers from the Police Science Laboratory and another canine inspection that began at 03h49 on 7 August 2007 by the dog Keela, that detects traces of human blood, it having been verified the following result:
03h53 - the dog 'marked' an area of the lower right-hand side of the interior part of the baggage compartment of the car;"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

Number 10

What do you think that was, PF? To me, it sounds like the CRL/10(1)) (the fibre-covered panel with ventilation vents). Which is what I found that she pointed her nose at.

Where I'm still confused is that this CRL/10(1)) thing had a plastic extension, which the FSS designated as CRL/10(2))

Is that (2) bit an attached (non-visible) plastic bit on the vertical panel, but without fibre-covering? Or is the attached plastic bit actually the horizontal bit designated in the PJ photos as No. 11? If so, the photo doesn't seem as if it's attached (unless there was some kind of fastening intended to keep them together and separated for shipping).

If the horizontal bit is (2), then there never was an absorbent mat.

The description of No. 11 (PJ) just says "tampa da mala" which I believe just means boot cover.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P12/12_VOLUME_XIIa_Page_3238.jpg

If PJ No 11 is something completely different, and is indeed a fibre mat covering the base... what happened to it?

Ahhh. No. (It's been ages since I went through this).

No. 10 (2) doesn't seem to be horizontal flooring:



Then... PJ:
9. Head hair collected from the vehicle luggage area.
10. Parts of the vehicle luggage area.
11. Fibres and possible head hair in the rear shelf/luggage cover.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P12/12_VOLUME_XIIa_Page_3240.jpg

So No 11 (PJ) was where the forensic guys located hairs / fibres for analysis.

If that's the case, then there never was an absorbent mat.

(I'll send you a bottle of aspirin, Rob). lol

[Mr Gray]

Keela only alerts to blood.

Q: I know you don’t want to go into detail but are there more forensic tests, is that what is going on?

MR: I’m not going to talk about detail of the type of work going on but there are critical lines of enquiry
of great interest to ourselves and our Portuguese counterparts and there are some significant
investigative avenues we are pursuing that we see as very worthwhile.

http://news.met.police.uk/documents/transcript-of-interview-with-ac-mark-rowley-66743

The forensic evidence gathered at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance has been stored at the National Institute for Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences in Coimbra in central Portugal.

Detectives and forensic technicians from the Metropolitan police are scheduled to visit the laboratory on Wednesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/13/madeleine-mccann-forensic-scientists-portugal

the alert is not confirmed as blood unless corroborated .....its of no importance in any event.  Note Gerrys blood was found in the car..

[pathfinder73]

I wonder what caused Gerry to bleed onto the car key? No word in their book of truth to explain his blood being found.

[Mr Gray]

I wonder what caused Gerry to bleed onto the car key? No word in their book of truth to explain his blood being found.

He probably didnt bleed onto the car key...

[Carana]

Ok, I think I've got it.

10 (1) and 10 (2) = the vertical vent panel + the horizontal side bar (north-south, right-hand side) as viewed from the boot.

11 was the horizontal covering (it doesn't actually say whether it was fibre-coated or just plastic), but it's where the forensic guys found hairs / fibres.

12 is the key card.

Unless anyone can substantiate anything different, there never was a fibre-coated mat that was sent for DNA analysis as such.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I wonder what caused Gerry to bleed onto the car key? No word in their book of truth to explain his blood being found.

IMO -It will have been omitted as it would conflict with Gerry's expert knowledge of  blood sniffer dogs not being accurate. We should maybe ask the dogs, but then they can only say they smell blood they can't say how it got there. T $6(&hat would be a hooman job. We will just have to make wild guesses on that one Pathy...