Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?

[Carana]

how could he possibly know that...has keela ever falsely alerted

No idea. There's not much to go on. He did say that she was 100% accurate, whether that's in the files or in his promo video, I can't remember.

[faithlilly]

I agreed with you on something the other day. I know this doesn't happen often... ;)

Yes, I agree that it's harder to explain, but IMO the simplistic matrix of one or both dogs alerting is simply that... simplistic.

If you read Grime's documents, which I'm sure we all have, he states that Keela only alerts to the PHYSICAL presence of blood. He says no such thing about Eddie. And, AFAIK, what exactly he wouldn't react to, aside from pork-based foodstuffs in a restaurant and whatever roadkill he'd ever come across, isn't clear at all.

Without going into bizarre theories of dead pigs in cupboards, I find it quite plausible that something (socks with a plaster covering a small foot cut?) removed prior to the dogs (the flat had been re-occupied up to a week previously) could be a feasible explanation. No one seems to have asked the prior occupants... as far as we know from the available files.

It might not be the right explanation, but I find it quite plausible.

I'm afraid that doesn't explain why Keela didn't alert to the plaster ( presumably containing a small amount of blood ) but Eddie did. Can you explain that ?

[Robittybob1]

I'm afraid that doesn't explain why Keela didn't alert to the plaster ( presumably containing a small amount of blood ) but Eddie did. Can you explain that ?

You have raised a very important observation.  Where do I find about Eddie alerting to the plaster?

[Brietta]

I'm afraid that doesn't explain why Keela didn't alert to the plaster ( presumably containing a small amount of blood ) but Eddie did. Can you explain that ?

It may have been pus ... any blood cells would have been been disposed of with the plaster and pus ... but the scent of decay would waft around in an enclosed room???

[Carana]

I'm afraid that doesn't explain why Keela didn't alert to the plaster ( presumably containing a small amount of blood ) but Eddie did. Can you explain that ?

Re-read my post, Faith.

According to Grime, Keela would only react to the PHYSICAL presence of blood. He says no such thing about Eddie.

Take away a blood-stained plaster, sock or whatever else, and Keela wouldn't have reacted. However, Eddie could apparently react to the presence of molecules still in the air.

Whether that's what happened or not - no idea. But I can't find why such an innocent explanation is implausible.

[Carana]

No! it is evidence that nothing specific can ruled in or ruled out.

This discussion has been going on for at least 4 years to my knowledge with each side drawing erroneous conclusions.

In terms of the alleles found, yes. Significant or not is something we'll probably never know for certain. However, the fact remains that even if her full profile had been there, it still wouldn't necessarily mean that her remains had been there, although it could.

What I found interesting today is that if my reasoning is correct (and I stand to be corrected), there never was any gooey mess on or even under an absorbent or permeable mat. And there were certainly no tufts of hair from a cadaver. The tabloids just went into overdrive, much as they did in Jersey. IMO.

[Robittybob1]

how could he possibly know that...has keela ever falsely alerted

They go through training exercises everyday and the results of the training exercises would give a good indication of how accurate the dog is.  If it only found 50% of the training samples 50% accurate.  If Keela found 100% of the training samples 100% accurate.
I am wondering if the dog would not be also picking up the presence of the trainer.  I think to be very accurate in running the training random people would have to be involved in placing the hidden samples.

[Mr Gray]

They go through training exercises everyday and the results of the training exercises would give a good indication of how accurate the dog is.  If it only found 50% of the training samples 50% accurate.  If Keela found 100% of the training samples 100% accurate.
I am wondering if the dog would not be also picking up the presence of the trainer.  I think to be very accurate in running the training random people would have to be involved in placing the hidden samples.

Has Keela ever given a false alert...that is the question

[Carana]

They go through training exercises everyday and the results of the training exercises would give a good indication of how accurate the dog is.  If it only found 50% of the training samples 50% accurate.  If Keela found 100% of the training samples 100% accurate.
I am wondering if the dog would not be also picking up the presence of the trainer.  I think to be very accurate in running the training random people would have to be involved in placing the hidden samples.

I've never had a problem with Keela for some reason. Perhaps because it's clear what the sole substance that she'd react to actually was (although I've never found her training record). It's Eddie, the GP, whose description I find a bit waffly.

But there are a zillion dog threads on here somewhere.

[Mr Gray]

Not hard at all. The tracker dogs followed Madeleine's scent left earlier in the day/days

I agree

[Mr Gray]

They go through training exercises everyday and the results of the training exercises would give a good indication of how accurate the dog is.  If it only found 50% of the training samples 50% accurate.  If Keela found 100% of the training samples 100% accurate.
I am wondering if the dog would not be also picking up the presence of the trainer.  I think to be very accurate in running the training random people would have to be involved in placing the hidden samples.

Grime has stated clearly that any alert needs to be corroborated for it to be accepted as evidence and therefore the alert by keela in the boot cannot confirm the presence of blood

[Robittybob1]

Has Keela ever given a false alert...that is the question

Even if she had never given a false alert there is always the chance that the next alert will be false.  Each test has to be assessed on its own merits IMO.  It is like going to the casino and playing roulette, you might look at the previous results and think this will be the next outcome, but I have come to believe the past results have no influence on the future.  So even if Keela had been 100% accurate in all past cases that does not determine the accuracy of the next test.

[Mr Gray]

Even if she had never given a false alert there is always the chance that the next alert will be false.  Each test has to be assessed on its own merits IMO.  It is like going to the casino and playing roulette, you might look at the previous results and think this will be the next outcome, but I have come to believe the past results have no influence on the future.  So even if Keela had been 100% accurate in all past cases that does not determine the accuracy of the next test.

it does actually....keela is not alerting by chance but by skill....thus the roulette wheel is not random

[Robittybob1]

Grime has stated clearly that any alert needs to be corroborated for it to be accepted as evidence and therefore the alert by keela in the boot cannot confirm the presence of blood

I think we are saying the same thing in different ways.

[Robittybob1]

it does actually....keela is not alerting by chance but by skill....thus the roulette wheel is not random

I think it might be more like if it is blood she will sense it 100% of the time, if it isn't blood but some other body fluid we can't be sure what she would do.