Author Topic: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'  (Read 39054 times)

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Offline G-Unit

'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« on: May 23, 2017, 07:57:11 AM »
On the 4th May both parents told the police that Madeleine had said the twins were crying on the night of 2nd;

Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

In Gerry's 10th May statement he changes the story;

While they were taking breakfast MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her ?why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying??.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

In Kate's 5th September interview, the police ask her about the incident;

Regarding the fact that Madeleine on the next morning, Thursday, during breakfast said to both of them that she had been crying and that nobody had come to her room, she presumes that this crying must have been before she and Gerry returned to the apartment.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

139
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 06:50:07 PM by John »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 08:47:31 AM »
Looking at Gerry's statement "Between the 28th April, the day they arrived and the time the disappearance was discovered, he says that nothing unusual happened, only referring to an episode on the morning of the 3rd May, when Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying. As he did not hear anything, the witness did not go to the bedroom, however he finds his daughter's comment to be strange, maybe because it was the first time that she had made it."

From Kate's statement "Between the day of the arrival, April 28th, and the time that Madeleine's disappearance was discovered, the interviewee says that she noticed nothing unusual. She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying. The interviewee states that she had heard nothing and had therefore not gone into the bedroom. She thought her daughter's comment strange because it was the first time she had talked about it. "

Those two paragraphs are really saying exactly the same thing.  Did they have the same translator?
Kate "Thus, the interview was done in the presence of an interpreter: Natalia C.F. de A. "
Gerry "Being of British nationality he does not speak Portuguese and is assisted by the interpreter Natalia de Almeida."  Same person used in Portugal. who translated them back to English? 
Kate "TRANSLATIONS  BY ANNA ESSE /ALBYM"
Gerry "TRANSLATION BY INES/ALBYM"
So the difference in the wording could be just the final translation?

Gerry's 10th May statement was taken by "the interpreter Alice Dias Homem de Gouveia Avakoff"
With Kate's arguido statement we are not clearly told who the interpreter: "an interpreter is present taken from a list provided by the Consulate, ADSR." 

Kate "Regarding this night she says that none of the children cried, she would have noticed as she was in the room. Regarding the fact that Madeleine on the next morning, Thursday, during breakfast said to both of them that she had been crying and that nobody had come to her room, she presumes that this crying must have been before she and Gerry returned to the apartment. When she asked Madeleine about this however, the child gave no importance to the matter. On this night they also checked on the children every half hour; however she thinks that 45 minutes had gone by from the time of the last check to when they arrived, as exceptionally they went to the Tapas bar. On this day she thinks that Gerry arrived at the apartment around 23:50 and she arrived 5 minutes afterwards. She went to sleep in Madeleine's room 15/20 minutes afterwards. Before this she spent a few minutes in her bed next to Gerry's."

THIS WAS CONTRASTED WITH WHAT kATE HAD ORIGINALLY SAID "The interviewee and her husband sleep in one bedroom and the three children in the other. The twins sleep in cots, Madeleine in a normal bed, the other bed staying empty."  There were some variations on that basic plan.




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Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2017, 08:58:47 AM »
Moving on, Jane and Fiona knew all about it; or did they? According to the McCann's statements on 4th May, the twins cried. According to her friends Kate told them a different story on the evening of 3rd.

Jane Tanner in her Rogatory interview on 8th April 2008;

I did have a conversation with Kate about, she’d said that she’d, Madeleine had said something strange about ‘Where were you last night when I woke up’.  And, as I say, I can’t remember where in the meal she said this, but she did sort of say, oh I thought she said I thought that was a bit odd when, when Kate said, you know, Madeleine obviously she did say ‘Where were you when’, you know, I think she said ‘When S**n and I woke up’, I can’t remember whether it was when two of them woke up.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Fiona also mentions it on 10th May 2008

because I think Madeleine had said something 'Where were you mummy, me and S**n cried' and, you know, 'where were you'
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 09:14:00 AM »
When I read that and what happens later I tend to think Madeleine had not been told that they were going of to the Tapas but left her thinking they were asleep in the apartment so when she woke up they would be there to attend to her. 
So Madeleine must have looked into the bedroom and found Kate and Gerry not there so enquired "where were you?"

I have not yet seen any indication that implies someone else came to comfort the kids yet it is possible that someone did and possibly said "your mummy will be back soon" and put them back to bed.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2017, 09:20:41 AM »
As a parent I would always value honesty, so I think it was important that I would be honest to the kids as well.  If Kate during that day told Madeleine that if she woke up and needed mummy she could walk over to the Tapas because she was over there having her tea, I find that truly honest and something I would do too.  She could have been told they will be coming to check every half hour to make sure the twins were OK too. 
According to Kate the kids fell off to sleep very quickly and they were comforted by what they knew.

It is the "where were you" that is the most important bit.  Because it implied Madeleine felt her parents were not telling her the whole story.
"Where were you?" is one step from "Why didn't you come?", for the first implies Madeleine knows you weren't there.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 09:29:33 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2017, 10:28:13 AM »
Later, on 10th April 2008 there was a huge fuss. The McCanns accused the PJ of leaking their statements to a Spanish journalist;

Clarence had a phone call from a Spanish journalist who told him that he’d been given what appeared to be witness statements made by Gerry and me to the Portuguese police. The part of my statement in which he was interested was Madeleine’s comment to us on the morning of the day she disappeared: ‘Why didn’t you come when Sean and I cried last night?’ [Madeleine]

Kate doesn't appear to have noticed that she never used those words in her statement. Those are Gerry's  words from his 10th May 2007 statement. They are also similar to the words used by Jane Tanner in her 8th April 2008 rogatory interview.
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Offline Montclair

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2017, 10:57:35 AM »
JMO, but I can't believe that a child 3 years old would reproach her parents for leaving her and her siblings alone. First of all, at that age, she would have only been concerned about herself. Secondly, she would not be able to realise that what her parents did was not right because she would not be able to compare to what other parents do. Thirdly, she would have most likely have forgotten by the next morning what had happened.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2017, 11:40:32 AM »
JMO, but I can't believe that a child 3 years old would reproach her parents for leaving her and her siblings alone. First of all, at that age, she would have only been concerned about herself. Secondly, she would not be able to realise that what her parents did was not right because she would not be able to compare to what other parents do. Thirdly, she would have most likely have forgotten by the next morning what had happened.
Kids say the darnedest things.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2017, 12:47:12 PM »
JMO, but I can't believe that a child 3 years old would reproach her parents for leaving her and her siblings alone. First of all, at that age, she would have only been concerned about herself. Secondly, she would not be able to realise that what her parents did was not right because she would not be able to compare to what other parents do. Thirdly, she would have most likely have forgotten by the next morning what had happened.

It wasn't unusual, apparently, for Madeleine to alert her parents if the twins cried, but that does seem like a very complete story for a child of her age;

shortly after their arrival at the apartment. Madeleine came to his room saying that Amelie was crying and she couldn't sleep.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 01:04:51 AM »
It wasn't unusual, apparently, for Madeleine to alert her parents if the twins cried, but that does seem like a very complete story for a child of her age;

shortly after their arrival at the apartment. Madeleine came to his room saying that Amelie was crying and she couldn't sleep.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

At home in Rothley Madeleine had her own room so having the twins in the room in 5A could have kept her awake
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Offline Eleanor

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 09:06:40 AM »

Can someone point out why it would matter who of the three might have been crying?

Offline sadie

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 09:16:20 AM »

At home in Rothley Madeleine had her own room so having the twins in the room in 5A could have kept her awake

Until the age of about seven, my son was an atrocious sleeper.   So bad that he was referred to a specialist.

Amongst other things, we were advised to put his younger sister, who slept like a log, in the same room.  It did help, altho his sister then slept less soundly !!   

But the combined disturbances during the night were considerably lessened.    Just saying.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 09:40:43 AM »
Until the age of about seven, my son was an atrocious sleeper.   So bad that he was referred to a specialist.

Amongst other things, we were advised to put his younger sister, who slept like a log, in the same room.  It did help, altho his sister then slept less soundly !!   

But the combined disturbances during the night were considerably lessened.    Just saying.
I'm terrible with ticking clocks, I can't sleep if something is ticking for some reason i listen to it.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 10:54:53 AM »
Can someone point out why it would matter who of the three might have been crying?

The McCanns left their children home alone each evening from Sunday to Wednesday while they dined with their friends. On Thursday morning their daughter informed them that there had been crying the night before when they were absent. This didn't seem to alarm or cause concern to her parents because they left the children alone again on Thursday evening. Madeleine disappeared and they made sure they told the police on 4th May what Madeleine had said; that the twins had cried when they were out.

On 10th May Gerry gave another fuller statement and this time it was Madeleine and her brother who had cried, not the twins. So why the change in the story?

Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

While they were taking breakfast MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her ?why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying??.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
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Offline Eleanor

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 11:26:35 AM »
The McCanns left their children home alone each evening from Sunday to Wednesday while they dined with their friends. On Thursday morning their daughter informed them that there had been crying the night before when they were absent. This didn't seem to alarm or cause concern to her parents because they left the children alone again on Thursday evening. Madeleine disappeared and they made sure they told the police on 4th May what Madeleine had said; that the twins had cried when they were out.

On 10th May Gerry gave another fuller statement and this time it was Madeleine and her brother who had cried, not the twins. So why the change in the story?

Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

While they were taking breakfast MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her ?why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying??.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Why does this matter so much to some?  Everybody knows that I left my small children alone in similar circumstance.  As it happens they never woke up, and they weren't abducted.

But why it should matter of who said what to whom?  It hardly affects the outcome.