'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'

[Robittybob1]

there is no verification taht the twins were unresponsive....more opinion as fact...someone who is sedated is not unresponsive...thats fact not opinion

Sedation could lead to an unresponsive state, e.g. overdosed.  There are several witnesses saying the twins remained asleep, but asleep and unresponsive are different states IMO.  Asleep and unresponsive are technically not the same.  G-unit used the wrong term IMO.

[G-Unit]

Kate says at one point that she didn't switch on the light when trying to see Madeleine in her bed. The reason was in case the kids woke up. The twins didn't wake when the light was switched on, when the shutters were lowered and raised, when the room was searched or when taken outside in the cold. I would describe that as failing to respond to stimuli that should have woken them. The medical definition of unresponsive was never put to the test as no-one tried to elicit a response from them.

[Robittybob1]

Kate says at one point that she didn't switch on the light when trying to see Madeleine in her bed. The reason was in case the kids woke up. The twins didn't wake when the light was switched on, when the shutters were lowered and raised, when the room was searched or when taken outside in the cold. I would describe that as failing to respond to stimuli that should have woken them. The medical definition of unresponsive was never put to the test as no-one tried to elicit a response from them.

Weren't Kate and Fiona both involved with anaesthesiology?  So in my day of anaesthesiology we would note when there was a response or when there was too little response, so I would imagine they had trained to look for responses that may have gone unnoticed by others.   I'm sure Kate and Fiona would have denied this "the medical definition of unresponsive was never put to the test as no-one tried to elicit a response from them".  Kate is mentioned checking the twins, in other words she was looking for subtle responses that did not involve waking them up.  Kids have often astounded me when they fall asleep and continue to sleep surrounded by noise.  You can remain asleep even with the light on.

[Carana]

Expresso seems to have translated Nacho's extracts. Seems he got hold of Fiona's rog re the Mummy bit.

I haven't looked for the second bit, which translates roughly as "Gerry and I talked a few minutes and decided to watch the kids better at night". It could be papraphrased from Jane's rog.


Na semana passada, a Telecinco avançou com a notícia de que Madeleine teria chorado na véspera do rapto, e confrontado a mãe, Kate McCann, pelo facto de não ter vindo ao seu encontro: "Mamã, porque não vieste quando estávamos a chorar ontem à noite?", terá dito Madeleine, episódio que Kate terá alegadamente relatado à polícia e que constará nos inquéritos. No mesmo depoimento, estará escrito que "Gerry e eu falámos alguns minutos e decidimos vigiar melhor as crianças à noite", mas a Polícia Judiciária insiste em negar a fuga de informação.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/dossies/dossiest_actualidade/dos_madeleine_mccan/jornalista-espanhol-contraria-declaracoes-da-pj-no-caso-maddie=f294306



 Reply
 'I thought that was Wednesday night. You see, I mean, I only knew about that because on Thursday night Kate had said, erm, as we were chatting at the table 'Oh', you know, 'I wonder', you know, 'what', 'what she cried about' or, you know, she'd asked Madeleine, erm, because I think Madeleine had said something 'Where were you mummy, me and Sean cried' and, you know, 'where were you' and that had obviously worried Kate and she couldn't get anything more out of Madeleine, Madeleine had sort of moved on and, you know, didn't say anything more than that and wouldn't say, you know, whether she'd heard anything or been woken up or whether she had just woken up herself'
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

And, as I say, I can’t remember where in the meal she said this, but she did sort of say, oh I thought she said I thought that was a bit odd when, when Kate said, you know, Madeleine obviously she did say ‘Where were you when’, you know, I think she said ‘When Sean and I woke up’, I can’t remember whether it was when two of them woke up.  So I think Kate was more worried that night, you know, whether leaving them was the, the right thing, or so to speak, so.  So you were saying then about the frequency of the checks.  I was just wondering if that was another reason, you know, why maybe the checks were more often”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

[G-Unit]

Expresso seems to have translated Nacho's extracts. Seems he got hold of Fiona's rog re the Mummy bit.

I haven't looked for the second bit, which translates roughly as "Gerry and I talked a few minutes and decided to watch the kids better at night". It could be papraphrased from Jane's rog.


Na semana passada, a Telecinco avançou com a notícia de que Madeleine teria chorado na véspera do rapto, e confrontado a mãe, Kate McCann, pelo facto de não ter vindo ao seu encontro: "Mamã, porque não vieste quando estávamos a chorar ontem à noite?", terá dito Madeleine, episódio que Kate terá alegadamente relatado à polícia e que constará nos inquéritos. No mesmo depoimento, estará escrito que "Gerry e eu falámos alguns minutos e decidimos vigiar melhor as crianças à noite", mas a Polícia Judiciária insiste em negar a fuga de informação.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/dossies/dossiest_actualidade/dos_madeleine_mccan/jornalista-espanhol-contraria-declaracoes-da-pj-no-caso-maddie=f294306



 Reply
 'I thought that was Wednesday night. You see, I mean, I only knew about that because on Thursday night Kate had said, erm, as we were chatting at the table 'Oh', you know, 'I wonder', you know, 'what', 'what she cried about' or, you know, she'd asked Madeleine, erm, because I think Madeleine had said something 'Where were you mummy, me and Sean cried' and, you know, 'where were you' and that had obviously worried Kate and she couldn't get anything more out of Madeleine, Madeleine had sort of moved on and, you know, didn't say anything more than that and wouldn't say, you know, whether she'd heard anything or been woken up or whether she had just woken up herself'
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

And, as I say, I can’t remember where in the meal she said this, but she did sort of say, oh I thought she said I thought that was a bit odd when, when Kate said, you know, Madeleine obviously she did say ‘Where were you when’, you know, I think she said ‘When Sean and I woke up’, I can’t remember whether it was when two of them woke up.  So I think Kate was more worried that night, you know, whether leaving them was the, the right thing, or so to speak, so.  So you were saying then about the frequency of the checks.  I was just wondering if that was another reason, you know, why maybe the checks were more often”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

I think you need to be aware of the dates which make it impossible for Telecinco to have hold of any rog interviews (not from the PJ, anyway);

Jane Tanner's rog interview was 8th May 2008, Fiona Payne's was 10th May.
 
The interview recordings were sent to Portugal on 16th May 2008
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FRANCES_KENNAH.htm

the Portuguese translations of these rog interviews were delivered to Rebelo on 4th June 2008.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RESPONSE-ROGATORY.htm

The Telecinco programme was on 10th May 2008.

[Carana]

I think you need to be aware of the dates which make it impossible for Telecinco to have hold of any rog interviews (not from the PJ, anyway);

Jane Tanner's rog interview was 8th May 2008, Fiona Payne's was 10th May.
 
The interview recordings were sent to Portugal on 16th May 2008
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FRANCES_KENNAH.htm

the Portuguese translations of these rog interviews were delivered to Rebelo on 4th June 2008.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RESPONSE-ROGATORY.htm

The Telecinco programme was on 10th May 2008.

I think you mean April, don't you?

Fiona PAYNE
Number of Pages 55

Place of Interview:
Force Headquarters Enderby
Signature of Interviewing


Date of Interview:10/04/08
Officer producing exhibit




Jane Tanner - Record Of Tape Recorded Interview I

L E I C E S T E R S H I R E C O N S T A B U L A R Y
Form MG15(T)
RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW Police Exhibit No
Person Interviewed: Jane TANNER Number of Pages 12
Place of Interview: Force Headquarters, Enderby Signature of Interviewing
Date of Interview: 08.04.08 Officer producing exhibit

[Carana]

I'm aware that the whole lot of rogs were officially sent as a batch at a later date.

However, that doesn't mean that the PJ couldn't have been given a copy of the CDs (or have made one themselves) of those interviewed while they were present. Fiona's seems a little tight, leakwise, but Jane's isn't.

Interviews of the Tapas Seven are due to start on Tuesday and the friends will be asked a series of questions drawn up by the Portuguese police team.

By Vanessa Allen for the Daily Mail and David Wilkes for the Daily Mail and Daily Mail Reporter
Updated: 10:09 GMT, 7 April 2008
(...)

The three-strong team from Portugal is expected to return to the Algarve on Friday but Leicestershire officers will continue to interview other witnesses, including the couple's spokesman Mr Mitchell.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1008821/Portuguese-detectives-set-quiz-Tapas-Seven-London-Madeleine-s-disappearance.html#ixzz52vVddVWi
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[G-Unit]

I'm aware that the whole lot of rogs were officially sent as a batch at a later date.

However, that doesn't mean that the PJ couldn't have been given a copy of the CDs (or have made one themselves) of those interviewed while they were present. Fiona's seems a little tight, leakwise, but Jane's isn't.

Interviews of the Tapas Seven are due to start on Tuesday and the friends will be asked a series of questions drawn up by the Portuguese police team.

By Vanessa Allen for the Daily Mail and David Wilkes for the Daily Mail and Daily Mail Reporter
Updated: 10:09 GMT, 7 April 2008
(...)

The three-strong team from Portugal is expected to return to the Algarve on Friday but Leicestershire officers will continue to interview other witnesses, including the couple's spokesman Mr Mitchell.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1008821/Portuguese-detectives-set-quiz-Tapas-Seven-London-Madeleine-s-disappearance.html#ixzz52vVddVWi
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Sorry, it was April of course. I don't know what happened there. Jane was interviewed on 8th and Fiona on 10th. The Telecinco broadcast was on 10th. The Portuguese officers were still in Rngland then, the first to return to Portugal was Rebelo on 11th. So very unlikely that Telecinco had any rog interviews.

[Carana]

Sorry, it was April of course. I don't know what happened there. Jane was interviewed on 8th and Fiona on 10th. The Telecinco broadcast was on 10th. The Portuguese officers were still in Rngland then, the first to return to Portugal was Rebelo on 11th. So very unlikely that Telecinco had any rog interviews.

They wouldn't have had any transcripts, but they could have had a copy of the CDs. If that's the case, it wouldn't take much to upload it to a file-sharing site (if any were around in those days), or for someone to type out some of the "juicy" bits and pass it along by e-mail.

I very much doubt that LP leaked - to find again, but they even held an internal inquiry at some point, although I think (not certain) that that was prior to the rogs.

I also very much doubt that Rebelo leaked, either. Apart from the crying incident, I don't recall any other leaks under him, or at least none that couldn't have been leaked before he took over.

I also very much doubt that Kate and Gerry (or anyone associated with them) would have planted it to have a moan at the PJ, just when they were trying to draw media attention to Brussels.

In the Expresso article I linked to earlier, Nacho had apparently said that he had documents (plural) and that he would soon be revealing more. As far as I know, that didn't materialise - my guess would be that Rebelo put his foot down.

I'm now tending to think that Jane's is the most likely source for the "mummy" statement, due to the date), but I still haven't found a source for the "Gerry and I talked about it for a few minutes" one.

An alternative is that the source is Kate after all, recorded in an "informal" interview prior to arguida time and kept to leak on a rainy day.

[G-Unit]

Whichever way it's spun, I'm sure that Telecinco didn't have Kate McCann's police statement. She NEVER said what they said she said;

 "Whilst having breakfast Maddie said," Mum, why didn't you come yesterday when we were crying at night? (...) Gerry and I talked a couple of minutes and decided to monitor the children more at night. "
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8689&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

So who gave them this information?  There's enough truth in it to be sure that it came from someone close to the case.

Wh gained from the Telecinco broadcast? Not the PJ, because they were criticised once again. Although the McCanns complained bitterly, it publicised their visit to Brussels, and added to the smearing of the PJ.

[Carana]

Whichever way it's spun, I'm sure that Telecinco didn't have Kate McCann's police statement. She NEVER said what they said she said;

 "Whilst having breakfast Maddie said," Mum, why didn't you come yesterday when we were crying at night? (...) Gerry and I talked a couple of minutes and decided to monitor the children more at night. "
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8689&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

So who gave them this information?  There's enough truth in it to be sure that it came from someone close to the case.

Wh gained from the Telecinco broadcast? Not the PJ, because they were criticised once again. Although the McCanns complained bitterly, it publicised their visit to Brussels, and added to the smearing of the PJ.

Lots of money had been flying around over any juicy leaks (cf the McCann / media documentary).

I've considered the possibility of a planted story, but that just seems so unlikely to me - particularly anything that would set the media ablaze with such a negative story, fuelling the perception of uncaring parents.

[Brietta]

Please remember when voicing an opinion to say so.  Thank you.

[Carana]

The only incident in the files was a previous night when Madeleine came in to their room while they were in bed, because Amelie had woken up.

There's no way of knowing whether Madeleine had had a dream or not when she said that Sean had been crying.

[faithlilly]

The only incident in the files was a previous night when Madeleine came in to their room while they were in bed, because Amelie had woken up.

There's no way of knowing whether Madeleine had had a dream or not when she said that Sean had been crying.

If there had been a 'previous night' surely the McCanns would have assumed that was what Madeleine was talking about straight away ? Why would they even looked for another scenario ?

[Carana]

If there had been a 'previous night' surely the McCanns would have assumed that was what Madeleine was talking about straight away ? Why would they even looked for another scenario ?

They probably would have thought that that was what she meant... but then she disappeared, so I suppose it would be logical to think of any normally mundane detail that could be potentially significant.