Author Topic: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'  (Read 39167 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2018, 11:40:33 PM »
Gerry claimed that he and his wife left the patio doors open so they wouldn't wake the children by opening the main door. Are you saying he took an unnecessary risk with his children's safety when there was no need ?
Maybe he really want to prove to himself the front door was locked (single locked at least).
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline sadie

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #151 on: January 10, 2018, 11:45:07 PM »
Gerry claimed that he and his wife left the patio doors open so they wouldn't wake the children by opening the main door. Are you saying he took an unnecessary risk with his children's safety when there was no need ?
I am not talking children plural. 
I am not atlking Madeleine who we have been told was a light sleeper at one time
I am talking twins as Mistaken claimed.  She claimed that the TWINS were light sleepers. 

Had Madeleine wakened as the front door was opened and disturbed the twins then all three might have been awake. 

I am asking Mistaken for a cite to prove that the twins were light sleepers.
So far no cite has been given.

Offline faithlilly

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2018, 11:52:28 PM »
I am not talking children plural. 
I am not atlking Madeleine who we have been told was a light sleeper at one time
I am talking twins as Mistaken claimed.  She claimed that the TWINS were light sleepers. 

Had Madeleine wakened as the front door was opened and disturbed the twins then all three might have been awake. 

I am asking Mistaken for a cite to prove that the twins were light sleepers.
So far no cite has been given.

Gerry said he did not want to wake 'them'. I think we can therefore presume that at least one of the twins was a light sleeper.

From 'Madeleine Was Here'

'G: Part of the reason we ended up coming through the back was the noise coming through the front door. We didn’t want to disturb them. Sigh. Stupid, now, isn’t it.'
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 11:58:51 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #153 on: January 11, 2018, 06:10:25 AM »
Gerry said he did not want to wake 'them'. I think we can therefore presume that at least one of the twins was a light sleeper.

From 'Madeleine Was Here'

'G: Part of the reason we ended up coming through the back was the noise coming through the front door. We didn’t want to disturb them. Sigh. Stupid, now, isn’t it.'

Wasn't Kate peering to see if Madeleine was there in the dark because she didn't want to wake the children by switching the light on?
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline faithlilly

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #154 on: January 11, 2018, 09:42:14 AM »
Wasn't Kate peering to see if Madeleine was there in the dark because she didn't want to wake the children by switching the light on?

She was.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #155 on: January 11, 2018, 12:04:21 PM »
She was.

OK. So the children's parents are saying they could have been woken by someone using the front door or by someone switching the bedroom light on.

Judging by what Kate says in her book they weren't convinced that Madeleine was telling the truth;

Could Madeleine and Sean have woken up while we were at dinner? If so, it was worrying, obviously, but it didn’t seem very probable......Children usually need some soothing back to sleep once they’ve woken, especially if two of them are awake and upset at the same time, and it seemed highly unlikely they’d have gone through all these
stages without one of them overlapping with one of our checks. It wasn’t impossible, but it seemed implausible.
[madeleine]

Only after Madeleine's disappearance did it become not only probable and plausible, it became an important detail to share with the PJ and the FLO's. The  unlikelihood that two children would go back to sleep after crying is forgotten. Kate is now prepared to believe they did so after being disturbed by an intruder 'either in or trying to get into the children's bedroom'! An intruder in the bedroom wakes the children but they nod off again without needing any soothing? Sorry, but that's too much to expect anyone to believe in my opinion.

At least she has the honesty in her book to admit that Madeleine asked a question which they didn't answer;

It was more a case of her question just hanging there quietly, unanswered [madeleine].

Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline sadie

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #156 on: January 11, 2018, 11:19:42 PM »
Gerry said he did not want to wake 'them'. I think we can therefore presume that at least one of the twins was a light sleeper.

From 'Madeleine Was Here'

'G: Part of the reason we ended up coming through the back was the noise coming through the front door. We didn’t want to disturb them. Sigh. Stupid, now, isn’t it.'
Wake the light sleeper Madeleine and they would all be awakened.  Hence Gerry saying that he did not want to wake them.#

IMO

Offline sadie

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #157 on: January 11, 2018, 11:33:45 PM »
OK. So the children's parents are saying they could have been woken by someone using the front door or by someone switching the bedroom light on.

Judging by what Kate says in her book they weren't convinced that Madeleine was telling the truth;

Could Madeleine and Sean have woken up while we were at dinner? If so, it was worrying, obviously, but it didn’t seem very probable......Children usually need some soothing back to sleep once they’ve woken, especially if two of them are awake and upset at the same time, and it seemed highly unlikely they’d have gone through all these
stages without one of them overlapping with one of our checks. It wasn’t impossible, but it seemed implausible.
[madeleine]

Only after Madeleine's disappearance did it become not only probable and plausible, it became an important detail to share with the PJ and the FLO's. The  unlikelihood that two children would go back to sleep after crying is forgotten. Kate is now prepared to believe they did so after being disturbed by an intruder 'either in or trying to get into the children's bedroom'! An intruder in the bedroom wakes the children but they nod off again without needing any soothing? Sorry, but that's too much to expect anyone to believe in my opinion.

At least she has the honesty in her book to admit that Madeleine asked a question which they didn't answer;

It was more a case of her question just hanging there quietly, unanswered [madeleine].

That is in your opinion.is it?

'cos in my opinion you are wrong. 

Offline faithlilly

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #158 on: January 12, 2018, 12:17:51 AM »
Wake the light sleeper Madeleine and they would all be awakened.  Hence Gerry saying that he did not want to wake them.#

I made it plain in my previous post.  Seems you either did not bother to read it, or you are just steam rollering over it .... and pretending I didn't say it?

IMO

You have no idea what Gerry meant, it is simply your opinion, and it is you who are doing the steam rollering by pretending that you do.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline sadie

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #159 on: January 12, 2018, 02:02:44 AM »
You have no idea what Gerry meant, it is simply your opinion, and it is you who are doing the steam rollering by pretending that you do.
I have made it quite clear that it is my opinion.

Hows about you making it clear that your thought "that one of the twins was a light sleeper" is ONLY your opinion too.

How about adhering to forum rules?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #160 on: January 12, 2018, 06:49:59 AM »
I have made it quite clear that it is my opinion.

Hows about you making it clear that your thought "that one of the twins was a light sleeper" is ONLY your opinion too.

How about adhering to forum rules?
Where Faithlilly now says "I think we can therefore presume that at least one of the twins was a light sleeper."  The words "I think" is equivalent to IMO in my books.  So are you happy?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #161 on: January 12, 2018, 07:27:01 AM »
Wake the light sleeper Madeleine and they would all be awakened.  Hence Kate saying that she did not want to wake "them."

I made it plain in my earlier post.  Seems you either did not bother to read it, or you, too,  are just steam rollering over it .... and pretending I didn't say it?

IMO

Who, apart from you, has described Madeleine as a light sleeper? Who, apart from you, has said she would wake the twins if she woke up?

I read your post but unless you have some evidence to support what you say, it's just an unsupported opinion.

Sean and Amelie had always been perfect sleepers, and Madeleine had outgrown the restlessness of her babyhood......[madeleine]

So, all three could be expected to sleep so long as no lights were turned on and no doors were opened and closed. That's not, in my opinion, a description of 'perfect' sleepers, whatever that means. Like all children, they woke up occasionally; Aunt Janet says that's why the parents checked on them. She says they didn't let the children cry and she still, a year after the event, didn't seem convinced by Madeleine's story about the crying.

The children would occasionally awake during the night, particularly when they wanted to eat or be changed. Kate and Gerry would get up and take care of them it was for this reason they wanted to check on them when they were out....... As parents, Kate and Gerry did not let their children cry......They checked on their children constantly; the children always came first so that their routine was not disturbed.........Relative to the allegation that Madeleine made regarding Sean's crying, I do not have any idea what possessed Madeleine to make such an affirmation and also would state that Madeleine had a very fertile imagination.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANNET-KENNEDY.htm



Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #162 on: January 12, 2018, 07:49:36 AM »
That is in your opinion.is it?

'cos in my opinion you are wrong.

My opinion is based on the evidence. Kate described the crying as improbable, unlikely and implausible. That's because she didn't think they'd cry and then go back to sleep without being soothed. Then Madeleine disappeared and she reported it to the PJ and the FLO's. She must have changed her mind, mustn't she if she's now reporting it as if it happened? She now seems prepared to accept that they did cry and go back to sleep on their own?

In my opinion children can cry a little and nod back off in the space of 30 minutes, but if they were woken because there was an intruder in the bedroom going back to sleep really would be improbable, unlikely and implausible.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #163 on: January 12, 2018, 08:03:13 AM »
Who, apart from you, has described Madeleine as a light sleeper? Who, apart from you, has said she would wake the twins if she woke up?

I read your post but unless you have some evidence to support what you say, it's just an unsupported opinion.

Sean and Amelie had always been perfect sleepers, and Madeleine had outgrown the restlessness of her babyhood......[madeleine]

So, all three could be expected to sleep so long as no lights were turned on and no doors were opened and closed. That's not, in my opinion, a description of 'perfect' sleepers, whatever that means. Like all children, they woke up occasionally; Aunt Janet says that's why the parents checked on them. She says they didn't let the children cry and she still, a year after the event, didn't seem convinced by Madeleine's story about the crying.

The children would occasionally awake during the night, particularly when they wanted to eat or be changed. Kate and Gerry would get up and take care of them it was for this reason they wanted to check on them when they were out....... As parents, Kate and Gerry did not let their children cry......They checked on their children constantly; the children always came first so that their routine was not disturbed.........Relative to the allegation that Madeleine made regarding Sean's crying, I do not have any idea what possessed Madeleine to make such an affirmation and also would state that Madeleine had a very fertile imagination.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANNET-KENNEDY.htm
Janet knew the kids back in Rothley where they had separate rooms I presume (for Kate still talks about Madeleine's bedroom.  Gerry mentions that the twins may have woken Madeleine.

"---- When asked about the time he went to check the children on the night of Madeleine's disappearance, he states remembering that he did it, according to his watch, around 21:04. He remembers that once inside the apartment he thought strange only the fact of the door to the children's room being slightly more open than how the defendant had left it when he and Kate left for dinner. However, he puts the hypothesis of [proposes; suggests] it having been Madeleine opening that door after having woken and having got up, possibly to go to her parents' room. On this occasion the three children were lying in their beds and asleep, he is sure of that. "

also "--- The third check was made by Kate at around 22:00. He does not know how long it was before Kate returned, but he does remember that shortly before she returned he was thinking of going to see what was going on, as it seemed a long time and he thought that one of children might have woken up."

 Kate: "With the exception of what has been described above, during the holidays, she does not remember if any of the children was awake during the night. However, in England Madeleine sometimes woke up during the night, around 2 ' 2:30 AM and went to her parents. During holidays it was normal for the children to be awake by 7:30/8:00, in England, at home, they would normally wake between 7 and 7:30 AM."

Gerry McCann 10th May "----- He followed the normal route up to the rear door, which being open he only had to move [slide] it, that being the way in which he entered [was entering] the lounge, he noted that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought strange, having then put together the thought of MADELEINE having got up to go to sleep in his bedroom so as to avoid the noise produced [created] by her siblings."

So at the time Gerry thought it likely.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: 'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'
« Reply #164 on: January 12, 2018, 08:07:05 AM »
My opinion is based on the evidence. Kate described the crying as improbable, unlikely and implausible. That's because she didn't think they'd cry and then go back to sleep without being soothed. Then Madeleine disappeared and she reported it to the PJ and the FLO's. She must have changed her mind, mustn't she if she's now reporting it as if it happened? She now seems prepared to accept that they did cry and go back to sleep on their own?

In my opinion children can cry a little and nod back off in the space of 30 minutes, but if they were woken because there was an intruder in the bedroom going back to sleep really would be improbable, unlikely and implausible.
Can you give a cite for this statement "She now seems prepared to accept that they did cry and go back to sleep on their own?" please, for I think it may be different in the Kate is thinking someone else provided the comfort to them to get them back to sleep.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.