Abduction

[Alice Purjorick]

I will purchase an Italian style rim lock latch and see what modifications can be done.  In my comprehension I need it so with the use of the key or the lever both the latch bolt and the latch bolt lock move at the same time.
But if the latch bolt is depressed manually the latch bolt lock remains extended.  (In the unmodified version, if the latch bolt is depressed manually the latch bolt lock is also depressed.)

You should be able to assess whether or not the modification may be done by looking at the comics.

[Alice Purjorick]

I don't think anyone would describe me as a linear thinker, but anyway. Just to set the ball rolling in the spirit of Alice's thread... And this is just off the top of my head before this thread degenerates....

Burglary gone wrong.
Nicks and duplicates key (possibly several while he's at it). Could be former employee, or knows / recognises someone who is e.g., maintenance or cleaning staff. Staff could keep keys with them over lunchtime in a jacket that gets hanged on a coat rack over lunch - nicks and duplicates some and puts them back in jacket.

Could have an accomplice. He or they case the village and work out the general routine of various tourists. They park near 5A, notice it's all quiet, but occupants are likely to have gone out for dinner (too early for bedtime). One enters via key, heads towards bedroom or living room, but M wakes up and is about to scream the place down. He puts his hand over her mouth to stop her, but accidentally smothers her. The choice is to run out and leave or to grab her (sentence is far heavier in the event of injury or death).

In a moment of panic, he opens the window and lifts the blind, either to signal to an accomplice, or possibly more likely because someone could work out that he'd got a key and decides to make it look as if he'd broken in via the window. Grabs her and leaves in the car.

The only thing I find odd is that the front door would have been shut again. Unless it could have slammed, or if there was a reason to avoid anyone guessing that he'd had a kesy. (I say he, but it could have been a woman or more than one person).

If he'd picked the lock (i.e., without a key), I can't think of a logical reason to open the window / shutter.

In the event of a Smellyman high on drugs or suffering from some kind of dangerous psychiatric illnness (sporadic or not), , I find it hard to imagine what any thought processes may have been. Could someone in some kind of "altered" state of mind be lucid enough to lift up the shutter from the outside and get in that way? If so, I would have thought that there would have been more traces in the window area. Lucid enough to pick a lock? Wander in via the terrace side? But then close the gates? And wander out via the front door and think to close it?

I tried to find articles about the sexual assaults, and the one that seems to give the most details (accurate or not) is from the Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve

At that particular "junction" I was not talkng to you...

[Mr Gray]

LOL at least you prove that you can't handle the truth and have already made your mind up. Pathetic.

I can handle the truth ...I think its quite important. Ive looked at her twitter page...she seems big on body language as evidence...that makes me suspect her video will be poor. Ive looked at all the evidence and followed the case for ten years...she can bring nothing new to the case

[Mr Gray]

LOL at least you prove that you can't handle the truth and have already made your mind up. Pathetic.

I must say you are very lucky to be able to post any old rubbish...imo....and not an IMO in sight...

[Mr Gray]

I never blindly accept anything I do my own research...so tell me....based on your research...do the dogs prove maddie died in the apartment

[pathfinder73]

I never blindly accept anything I do my own research...so tell me....based on your research...do the dogs prove maddie died in the apartment

No the dog alerts need to be corroborated.

[Mr Gray]

No the dog alerts need to be corroborated.

good..so what evidence supports your view...there isnt any

[Carana]

At that particular "junction" I was not talkng to you...

LOL

[Alice Purjorick]

I think that's why we got back into the key discussion. Without knowing one way or the other whether it could slam shut on its own or not...

According to the comics it can.
But that does not account for the International Band of Lock modifiers perambulating around at 37.0909° N, 8.7591° W along with all the other weirdos artisans who might just come in handy to support an unlikely tale occurrence.......... 

[Robittybob1]

According to the comics it can.
But that does not account for the International Band of Lock modifiers perambulating around at 37.0909° N, 8.7591° W along with all the other weirdos artisans who might just come in handy to support an unlikely tale occurrence.......... 

Read what David Payne had to say on the matter.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

"Reply "Err we, you know, we ran up err to the apartment, you know, with, with err you know Kate and Gerry err and you know for me, I just wanted to know, as I say, about the access to the apartment, were those gates open, err because in my mind was that if the front door was shut there was no, you know there won't be, you know there was no way that she could have wandered out that way and nor would they have gained access in that way. Err also obviously the, the, the issue with the, the shutters had been raised, was brought up err you know on the way up as well and then I was asking about the gates being shut at that back and she said well both gates you know were shut, so in my mind, you know, that had ruled it out that Madeleine had err had wandered off."

[sadie]

So you believe that then you would agree with the many experts and the PJ/Amaral that the shutter/window story was made up by the parents?

Which leads us to the question why would they do that? If their daughter was abducted would it matter to them at that moment how she was taken? Hmmm Im thinking not. because  they did not act or behave in a way which would tie in with a child being abducted by a stranger. As an example not mentioning abduction to the police- or searching for a missing child under beds etc.

Please do not twist my words to mean things that they do not.

I have stated repeatedly on here why I think the window was open and shutter raised, but especially for you I will try and remember some of them

AIMO

1)  Window and shutter opened either from  the inside by the lifter or from the outside by Tannerman.  Heriberto Janosch demonstrated how easy it was to do this.

2)  Opened a little so that in the first place they could spot Madeleine and see the layout of the room
3)   To give a glow of light to the room (not much admittedly) to help the lifter.  Better not to shine a torch or put the light on in the room, which then would shine like a beacon and expose what was going on.
3)   To give encouragement and instructions to the lifter who was probably someone Madeleine knew.  Someone who was not used to doing this sort of thing.
4)   To pass any equipment needed (chloroform etc) in.
5)  Tannerman was on watch outside and he could see any signals, if anyone was approaching, from the man on the balcony of block 6.  With the window open, he coulod easily warn the lifter.
6)   As an emergency escape route for the lifter.
7)   To give the impression that Madeleine had wakened and climbed out of the window herself.  This gave the abductors a good hours start because to begin with peeps would look for Madeleine walking away, rather than investigate the abductor scenario.  The Golden hour and all that.
8)  To take the eye of the investigators off the front door, so that questions would not be asked about how did the abductors get hold of the key = protecting someone at OC.


I feel sure there were more reasons why the shutters and window were open, but I cant remember them atm

AIMO

[Robittybob1]

Please do not twist my words to mean things that they do not.

I have stated repeatedly on here why I think the window was open and shutter raised, but especially for you I will try and remember some of them

AIMO

1)  Window and shutter opened either from  the inside by the lifter or from the outside by Tannerman.  Heriberto Janosch demonstrated how easy it was to do this.

2)  Opened a little so that in the first place they could spot Madeleine and see the layout of the room
3)   To give a glow of light to the room (not much admittedly) to help the lifter.  Better not to shine a torch or put the light on in the room, which then would shine like a beacon and expose what was going on.
3)   To give encouragement and instructions to the lifter who was probably someone Madeleine knew.  Someone who was not usede to doing this sort of thing.
4)   To pass any equipment needed (chloroform etc) in.
5)  Tannerman was on watch outside and he could see any signals, if anyone was approaching, from the man on the balcony of block 6.  With the window open, he coulod easily warn the lifter.
6)   As an emergency escape route for the lifter.
7)   To give the impression that Madeleine had wakened and climbed out of the window herself.  This gave the abductors a good hours start because to begin with peeps would look for Madeleine walking away, rather than investigate the abductor scenario.  The Golden hour and all that.
8)  To take the eye of the investigators off the front door, so that questions would not be asked about how did the abductors get hold of the key = protecting someone at OC.


I feel sure there were more reasons why the shutters and window were open, but I cant remember them atm

AIMO

If they had a key they could close the front door behind them.  And you theorise that they did close the front door rather just leave the door unlocked.

[Alice Purjorick]

Read what David Payne had to say on the matter.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

"Reply "Err we, you know, we ran up err to the apartment, you know, with, with err you know Kate and Gerry err and you know for me, I just wanted to know, as I say, about the access to the apartment, were those gates open, err because in my mind was that if the front door was shut there was no, you know there won't be, you know there was no way that she could have wandered out that way and nor would they have gained access in that way. Err also obviously the, the, the issue with the, the shutters had been raised, was brought up err you know on the way up as well and then I was asking about the gates being shut at that back and she said well both gates you know were shut, so in my mind, you know, that had ruled it out that Madeleine had err had wandered off."

Yeah I have read it now what?
I see no mention of anything factual just him expressing his opinion with no basis for that opinion quoted.

[Robittybob1]

Yeah I have read it now what?
I see no mention of anything factual just him expressing his opinion with no basis for that opinion quoted.

That is being unfair to David for he had been using those doors for a week.  His opinion was based on the knowledge of those door. I'm sure he is saying whoever goes through them can't just pull them closed behind them.

[Alice Purjorick]

That is being unfair to David for he had been using those doors for a week.  His opinion was based on the knowledge of those door. I'm sure he is saying whoever goes through them can't just pull them closed behind them.

You are sure he is saying? how do you figure that out?
According to the comics one can pull the door shut so unless you have incontrovertible evidence that the locks were modified such that they cannot be pulled into the latch I'll go by what I can see in the comics thank you.