When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.

[sadie]

Oh I couldn’t reveal my source.

A couple of guesses

1)  You made it up.  Very cleverly done, if so
2)  David Icke or Aagarifan or the like

Am I close?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Does anyone agree with me "The Tapas 7 can't have ruled out Madeleine wandering off immediately for all the searches completed in the first 10-20 minutes were for a girl that had wandered off"?

Yes I agree. however, did Kate not say she knew right away her daughter was abducted? I mean there is a difference. If you think she wandered of you would check all nooks and crannies in the adjacent areas while at the same time contact the police immediately. This didn't happen! Kate did not address the tapas group with words like 'Maddie has been abducted from her bed please help someone phone the police'...This was an afterthought.. who else noticed the shutters and window open with blowing curtains when they all went back to mess up the 'crime' scene.

[Alice Purjorick]

Yes I agree. however, did Kate not say she knew right away her daughter was abducted? I mean there is a difference. If you think she wandered of you would check all nooks and crannies in the adjacent areas while at the same time contact the police immediately. This didn't happen! Kate did not address the tapas group with words like 'Maddie has been abducted from her bed please help someone phone the police'...This was an afterthought.. who else noticed the shutters and window open with blowing curtains when they all went back to mess up the 'crime' scene.

Is this a Spoonerism and you really meant to say Crooks and Nannies?

[Robittybob1]

Yes I agree. however, did Kate not say she knew right away her daughter was abducted? I mean there is a difference. If you think she wandered of you would check all nooks and crannies in the adjacent areas while at the same time contact the police immediately. This didn't happen! Kate did not address the tapas group with words like 'Maddie has been abducted from her bed please help someone phone the police'...This was an afterthought.. who else noticed the shutters and window open with blowing curtains when they all went back to mess up the 'crime' scene.

I don't know if you have been following the thread about Arlindo, but I'm convinced now that the GNR were contacted immediately via Arlindo and Helder, who knew that the GNR were held up in Odiaxere with the alarms going off.  The GNR got there as quickly as they could.  Kate or Gerry ringing in would not have changed that while they were uncertain that Madeleine could or could not be found.  Even when the GNR arrived they were still of the opinion she had wandered off even though people had been searching for close to an hour without success.

[Robittybob1]

I don't know if you have been following the thread about Arlindo, but I'm convinced now that the GNR were contacted immediately via Arlindo and Helder, who knew that the GNR were held up in Odiaxere with the alarms going off.  The GNR got there as quickly as they could.  Kate or Gerry ringing in would not have changed that while they were uncertain that Madeleine could or could not be found.  Even when the GNR arrived they were still of the opinion she had wandered off even though people had been searching for close to an hour without success.

Helder Luis :"He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child's father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.

He then contacted the head of reception Vi­tor Santos and informed him of the situation." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm

How do we confirm this? - Vitor Santos would not have known about this if it hadn't happened "With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR."  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

So any thought that the Police weren't called ASAP is incorrect.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Helder Luis :"He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child's father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.

He then contacted the head of reception Vi­tor Santos and informed him of the situation." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm

How do we confirm this? - Vitor Santos would not have known about this if it hadn't happened "With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR."  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

So any thought that the Police weren't called ASAP is incorrect.

OK so what we have is times as guestimates because the story unfolds that 22.00 Kate finds Maddie missing, she does a quick search, then runs to tell the others, then they all go and search the apartment, so the phone call could not have been made at 22.00. either Kate and the tapas are giving the wrong time or the receptionist is?

[Robittybob1]

OK so what we have is times as guestimates because the story unfolds that 22.00 Kate finds Maddie missing, she does a quick search, then runs to tell the others, then they all go and search the apartment, so the phone call could not have been made at 22.00. either Kate and the tapas are giving the wrong time or the receptionist is?

In the story I'm telling it appears from the evidence in the file that the first phone call to the police was before the Tapas friends had even spoken about ringing the police.
From the evidence in Stephen Carpenter's statement, and Amy Tierney's statement at least one person was looking for Madeleine prior to Kate's alert.  Whether that person spoke to Arlindo is not certain but Arlindo does appear to have prior knowledge.
I am thinking for that person to know to look for Madeleine prior to Kate's alert there has to be a reason this happens.  The woman who picks up the child from the night creche identifies the person as a Mark Warner guest according to Charlotte Pennington.  (Dispatches documentary).
How come the PJ didn't find out who had children at the night creche and interview this lady and get her to identify the man she spoke to beats me.

[jassi]

In the story I'm telling it appears from the evidence in the file that the first phone call to the police was before the Tapas friends had even spoken about ringing the police.
From the evidence in Stephen Carpenter's statement, and Amy Tierney's statement at least one person was looking for Madeleine prior to Kate's alert.  Whether that person spoke to Arlindo is not certain but Arlindo does appear to have prior knowledge.
I am thinking for that person to know to look for Madeleine prior to Kate's alert there has to be a reason this happens.  The woman who picks up the child from the night creche identifies the person as a Mark Warner quest according to Charlotte Pennington.  (Dispatches documentary).
How come the PJ didn't find out who had children at the night creche and interview this lady and get her to identify the man she spoke to beats me.

Yeah, strange that. Maybe the timeline according to some was not all together accurate, that could explain it.

[Robittybob1]

A Mark Warner guest, a man, out on the streets just prior to 10:00 PM that knows Madeleine by name must be within rather a limited number of people.

Note:  I'm not suggesting this person has done anything wrong or illegal.

[G-Unit]

When was it shut? David Payne says "no one could have got in that way if that's the way they entered as the door was shut"
Lets go through the timeline:
The front door was shut when the McCanns left their apartment.

If then someone enters via that front door obviously they have a means of opening the door.  It is no longer shut, then is it.
So when he says "as the door was shut" when is he making that assessment about the door?

David Payne Quotes:

and again "I said well look how do you know that is the case, and err you know again I, I can't remember the exact words then, but I was very interested in finding what the state of the apartment was like when she'd got there to see who'd left err doors open or etcetera. And from my point of view you know the things that were, I think it was really pertinent to me was that there was two, there was two gates on the back entrance from that apartment. There's the gate which is immediately bring, you know brings you on to the err the road and then there was another child gate, that was at the top and I, you know, and given the fact that the front door was shut".

 Reply "Err we, you know, we ran up err to the apartment, you know, with, with err you know Kate and Gerry err and you know for me, I just wanted to know, as I say, about the access to the apartment, were those gates open, err because in my mind was that if the front door was shut there was no, you know there won't be, you know there was no way that she could have wandered out that way and nor would they have gained access in that way. Err also obviously the, the, the issue with the, the shutters had been raised, was brought up err you know on the way up as well and then I was asking about the gates being shut at that back and she said well both gates you know were shut, so in my mind, you know, that had ruled it out that Madeleine had err had wandered off."

Kate told Dave that both gates were shut?

2200: (approx): KM leaves table to check children in 5A. The patio gate is closed and the child gate is also probably closed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

[Mr Gray]

Kate told Dave that both gates were shut?

2200: (approx): KM leaves table to check children in 5A. The patio gate is closed and the child gate is also probably closed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Is this, second hand non verbatim  twice translated that you are now relying on?

[Wonderfulspam]

Both gates were found closed on Kate's visit.

The McCanns have told us this during an Irish TV interview, that I've referenced ad nauseam.

https://youtu.be/WLvnfcl-Zkg?t=1370

[Robittybob1]

Kate told Dave that both gates were shut?

2200: (approx): KM leaves table to check children in 5A. The patio gate is closed and the child gate is also probably closed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

I am sure David's references were to the front door.

He makes it perfectly clear in the quote I gave.  "David Payne Quotes:

and again "I said well look how do you know that is the case, and err you know again I, I can't remember the exact words then, but I was very interested in finding what the state of the apartment was like when she'd got there to see who'd left err doors open or etcetera. And from my point of view you know the things that were, I think it was really pertinent to me was that there was two, there was two gates on the back entrance from that apartment. There's the gate which is immediately bring, you know brings you on to the err the road and then there was another child gate, that was at the top and I, you know, and given the fact that the front door was shut".

OK he maybe confirming the gates were shut , but Kate had already gone through those herself so how did he confirm they were shut when Kate entered at the commencement of her check?

[G-Unit]

Is this, second hand non verbatim  twice translated that you are now relying on?

Why don't you follow the link and find out?

[Wonderfulspam]

I am sure David's references were to the front door.

He makes it perfectly clear in the quote I gave.  "David Payne Quotes:

and again "I said well look how do you know that is the case, and err you know again I, I can't remember the exact words then, but I was very interested in finding what the state of the apartment was like when she'd got there to see who'd left err doors open or etcetera. And from my point of view you know the things that were, I think it was really pertinent to me was that there was two, there was two gates on the back entrance from that apartment. There's the gate which is immediately bring, you know brings you on to the err the road and then there was another child gate, that was at the top and I, you know, and given the fact that the front door was shut".

OK he maybe confirming the gates were shut , but Kate had already gone through those herself so how did he confirm they were shut when Kate entered at the commencement of her check?

By way of Kate telling him so, I believe.

"I said well look how do you know that is the case"

To which Kate must have replied.

And she was telling the truth, to suggest otherwise would be libel.....or would it?