Author Topic: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.  (Read 36826 times)

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Offline Angelo222

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #135 on: January 20, 2018, 04:01:26 PM »
Yesterdays warnings as to inappropriate posting appears to have been lost on some members so I have instructed moderators to apply maximum sanctions against any member who continues to flaunt the forum rules. There will be no appeal against these sanctions.  In the worst cases the appropriate account will be deleted permanently.

No further warning will be given!

Admin


I notice that you have reset the watched list, there can be no excuses now for rule breaches.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Admin

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #136 on: January 20, 2018, 04:21:24 PM »
I notice that you have reset the watched list, there can be no excuses now for rule breaches.

Yes, I reset all warnings to zero to create a level playing field. The new zero tolerance stance is now in operation.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #137 on: January 20, 2018, 04:41:26 PM »
And, IMO, that is noticeably on the short side for a man.
Especially for the man that Gail Cooper drew in her identikit picture.  I read that in was quoted that Jane was 80% certain the man Gail drew was the one Jane saw (something along those lines).
How tall was the man Gail Cooper saw?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GAIL_COOPER.htm"As I sat with D**** watching the children, I heard the door bell sounding and thinking that it was my husband and son in law returning, I went to the front door and opened it. There is a camera on the Intercom system which I believe activated itself automatically upon the bell being activated however I do not know of any recording facilities that may have captured the image of the person I am about to describe. I opened the door and was surprised to see a person described as olive skinned male roughly 40 ? 45 years of age, 6.0? to 6.02? tall and of slim to medium build. He appeared to be Mediterranean however due to his appearance and mannerism I did not feel that he was Portuguese. I also noticed that he had a Mexican looking moustache which was dark brown or black in colour and was very thick and bushy and drooped down the sides of his mouth. His chin was clean shaven. He wore a khaki coloured waist length heavy cotton jacket and a green or blue round neck T shirt. He also had khaki coloured combat type trousers with pockets on the side of the trousers but they were plain trousers with no other patterns or markings on them . I did not notice his footwear. "
6 foot to 6 foot 2 not the 5 foot  7 recorded in the combined timeline.  That is a major difference.

The other major difference is the droopy moustache.

Jane was looking up hill could that make height estimation difficult?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #138 on: January 20, 2018, 04:46:25 PM »
Dunno. Sometimes others see or hear things that I don't or vice versa.

Someone simply calling out might not have stood out at the time  (and it was just a vague recollection) - as opposed to, e.g., the screech of an ambulance or a helicopter.
Some people suffer a degree of deafness for a variety of reasons too.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #139 on: January 20, 2018, 04:46:45 PM »
This may not be the right place, so apologies in advance.

IF Jane had done her visit at 9.15, why did Russell need to do another visit at 9.30 ?
If daughter was ill when seen by Jane, why did she leave & return to the Tapas ?
If she wasn't ill, why should Russel go 15 minutes later?

Was it 9:15 or a bit earlier?

Russell's rog - he needed a pee.

Reply    “’Window’, yeah.  I think it’s the opposite way round really, ‘I went to the toilet to urinate’, and I knew, I knew, because Evie was awake, I was staying anyway , so ‘I went to the toilet to urinate and then checked on Evie and she had been sick’, so I think I actually went”.

1578    “Okay, I will swap those'”
 Reply    “Just round, yeah.  I had a pee first because I was a little desperate.  Erm, ‘I started to clean her up and change her.  Matt came into my apartment and asked if I needed any help.  I said ‘No, go back and tell Jane that Evie was unwell’’”.

1578    “So if we include in there ‘Matt came into my apartment’'”

Offline jassi

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #140 on: January 20, 2018, 04:51:24 PM »
I              think there were toilets on the Tapas site so why go further than necessary?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #141 on: January 20, 2018, 04:55:39 PM »
I              think there were toilets on the Tapas site so why go further than necessary?
Some people prefer their own private toilet.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #142 on: January 20, 2018, 05:00:50 PM »
There was also Matt getting up, and it may simply have seemed a convenient time to go as well.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #143 on: January 20, 2018, 05:45:34 PM »
Was it 9:15 or a bit earlier?

Russell's rog - he needed a pee.

Reply    “’Window’, yeah.  I think it’s the opposite way round really, ‘I went to the toilet to urinate’, and I knew, I knew, because Evie was awake, I was staying anyway , so ‘I went to the toilet to urinate and then checked on Evie and she had been sick’, so I think I actually went”.

1578    “Okay, I will swap those'”
 Reply    “Just round, yeah.  I had a pee first because I was a little desperate.  Erm, ‘I started to clean her up and change her.  Matt came into my apartment and asked if I needed any help.  I said ‘No, go back and tell Jane that Evie was unwell’’”.

1578    “So if we include in there ‘Matt came into my apartment’'”

It sounds like Russell had forgot he was being recorded.  Altering his statement at will!
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #144 on: January 20, 2018, 07:27:58 PM »
It sounds like Russell had forgot he was being recorded.  Altering his statement at will!

They were going over the statement that hadn't been recorded, so I'm not sure what was actually written up.

Personally, I doubt whether I'd be certain whether I'd gone for a pee before or after tending to a sick child within the space of a couple of minutes a year later.

Is it crucial, do you think?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #145 on: January 20, 2018, 08:30:53 PM »
They were going over the statement that hadn't been recorded, so I'm not sure what was actually written up.

Personally, I doubt whether I'd be certain whether I'd gone for a pee before or after tending to a sick child within the space of a couple of minutes a year later.

Is it crucial, do you think?
what are your priorities?  Is it just to send the right impression to someone?  Attend the sick child before having a pee sounds more humane but could it be uncomfortable.  When you've got to go, you've got to go.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Carana

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #146 on: January 20, 2018, 08:38:31 PM »
what are your priorities?  Is it just to send the right impression to someone?  Attend the sick child before having a pee sounds more humane but could it be uncomfortable.  When you've got to go, you've got to go.

I don't think I've seen what the draft statement actually said, so I don't know how it was written.

There was presumably something about going for a pee and attending a child who'd vomited and it was just the order that was in question.

If there was no immediate danger, but just a child who needed to be cleaned up, I'd have gone for a pee first if it was urgent, otherwise I probably wouldn't have been able to deal with the situation in a soothing and calm manner. But others may react differently. No idea.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #147 on: January 20, 2018, 08:48:42 PM »
I don't think I've seen what the draft statement actually said, so I don't know how it was written.

There was presumably something about going for a pee and attending a child who'd vomited and it was just the order that was in question.

If there was no immediate danger, but just a child who needed to be cleaned up, I'd have gone for a pee first if it was urgent, otherwise I probably wouldn't have been able to deal with the situation in a soothing and calm manner. But others may react differently. No idea.
There are times when you decide to do something else first and you regret that.  As I understood it the sound track was recorded but the video didn't work, so they must have transcribed the first interview and discussed it during the second one.  If one had enough stamina I think there would be some important clues in there. 

So far I have not been able to even read it.  The thought of analysing it is put off till later.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline sadie

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #148 on: January 20, 2018, 11:28:17 PM »
Why is Matt's recollection a pig's ear?

I'd agree that a few details don't seem accurate, but I don't find anything that would make me suspect he'd never checked. I don't think I've found anything more than the 3 below:

Rog: he mentioned having a look at books on a bookshelf - but it was actually a buffet with books on top.

4 May:
He seemed to remember two windows, but there was only one, sliding one. He may have got mixed up with someone else's flat, possibly his own.

He states that the bedroom has two windows. The twins occupy two cots placed in the middle of the room and Madeleine occupies a bed pushed against the wall, facing the wall which has the two windows that look out onto the outside of the complex.

10 May:
He only talked about one window in this one, but that he remembered the curtains as some shade of green, when they were blue and white. Depending on the light source(s), they may well have appeared more green than blue.

He recalls having the perception that the window curtains - green in colour - were drawn closed but could not determine if the window was closed or open. Concerning the external blinds he clarifies that he did not see if it was closed or open. He recalls having thought that in that bedroom there was more brightness than there was in his daughter's room (where the external blinds were always fully closed), adding to have had the feeling that that light was coming from the outside - making the point that both were turned in the same direction.

Why would the entire group collude to swap in Matt for Gerry at 9:30? Particularly when any of the Tapas staff could have noticed who'd got up or who was still sitting at the table?
The sodium street lamps outside, altho very much reduced bu the heads of the trees,  would give of a decidedly yellow glow.  The curtains were blue and white

Yellow + blue makes green, as I fell sure most of you are aware.

That Matt saw the curtains as green rather than blue, indicates that either
1)   That the shutters were not fully closed but had light coming thru the tiny holes that opened up when the shutters were not totally closed.
    or
2)   The shutters were raised

Had someone come and
1)  Raised the shutters, partially so that the tiny holes allowed a little light in ? ... before Matts 9.30 visit ... creating the green colour?
       or,
2)  Already done the dirty deed (the abduction) before Matts 9.30 visit ?  So that the yellow lighting influenced the the blue curtains to make them look green ?


For the second to be true, the weather must have been quite calm at 9.30 pm, otherwise the curtains wouild have fluttered.   Was it the lull before the storm ?


I prefer the second, that the dirty deed had already been done. 
That matches up with Jane Tanners sighting.



One thing is certain:

The blue curtains would not have looked green, unless the colour was influenced by a yellow light.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #149 on: January 20, 2018, 11:46:32 PM »
I've gone on to the web and looked up colour blindness, and there is a online test.  It isn't a walk in the park doing that.  I know I don't have colour blindness as my former job required we had to be tested for it.  Was Matt colour blind in a certain combination of colours?
http://enchroma.com/test-150401.2/#test&ui-state=dialog  - a bit of a challenge.
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.