Author Topic: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?  (Read 58547 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #255 on: January 20, 2018, 12:07:10 PM »
The Collective in French is Masculine, regardless of gender.

Sometimes, but not always.

A similar example in PT is that "pais" can mean fathers or parents.


Offline sadie

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #256 on: January 20, 2018, 01:35:08 PM »
In my opinion claims that interpreters or translators made errors aren't supportable by evidence. If they were the evidence would be presented. Inconsistencies and anomalies which don't rely on interpretation or translation can be demonstrated however. The group produced a written account of the events of 3rd May and gave it to the PJ on 10th May. They all, including Gerry, saw, read and agreed with what it said. It is in the files in the original English;

2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road. She did not speak to GM as she passed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Gerry subsequently stated that he and Jes were not near the gate, they were on the opposite side of the road.
I think there is little doubt that Gerry was suffering from False Memory syndrome.


Jane adjusted her position after having given that answer.   It is not easy to suddenly and spontaniously remember an exact place along a road ... especially if it was unimportant to her at the time.

My thought is that after answering the questions, she went and visually checked it out .... and upon seeing the place it jogged memory


A further thought is that Albym translated.  Did he mix the meaning of the word * door * up with the word * gate * ?   

In other words did Jane actually say that  "The two were standing just up the hill from the * door *, [meaning the door from the tapas reception building] .... but Albym misunderstood ?

Anyone know if the words * door * and * gate * in Portuguese can be the same word?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #257 on: January 20, 2018, 02:42:16 PM »
There was nothing wrong with his memory to remember exact times, door positions and exactly where they were seated that night. Anything he claims not to remember is interesting.

"He does not remember if he had taken his mobile phone to the restaurant."

"He does not remember what Kate was wearing that night."

"He does not remember if anybody in the group took photographs that night."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #258 on: January 20, 2018, 02:47:04 PM »
I think there is little doubt that Gerry was suffering from False Memory syndrome.


Jane adjusted her position after having given that answer.   It is not easy to suddenly and spontaniously remember an exact place along a road ... especially if it was unimportant to her at the time.

My thought is that after answering the questions, she went and visually checked it out .... and upon seeing the place it jogged memory


A further thought is that Albym translated.  Did he mix the meaning of the word * door * up with the word * gate * ?   

In other words did Jane actually say that  "The two were standing just up the hill from the * door *, [meaning the door from the tapas reception building] .... but Albym misunderstood ?

Anyone know if the words * door * and * gate * in Portuguese can be the same word?

The point of producing the timeline was to make sure that the PJ had a full and accurate account of events. Gerry read it and agreed it with all the other members of the group. He seems to have had no objection to Jane's account at that time.

There were no translation errors because no-one translated the timeline, as I pointed out earlier.
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Offline Admin

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #259 on: January 20, 2018, 03:37:45 PM »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #260 on: January 20, 2018, 04:25:03 PM »
The point of producing the timeline was to make sure that the PJ had a full and accurate account of events. Gerry read it and agreed it with all the other members of the group. He seems to have had no objection to Jane's account at that time.

There were no translation errors because no-one translated the timeline, as I pointed out earlier.
Are you confusing what we are shown with that the PJ have?  I would be most surprised if they had not translated a version into Portuguese for their own use.
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Offline faithlilly

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #261 on: January 20, 2018, 04:29:36 PM »
I totally agree Carana.    It is because the typist has put a full stop instead of a line of dots (which would have indicated an unfinished sentence) - that makes it look like a full sentence.      There are several other instances of this 'error' by the typist where it is even more obvious that it is an unfinished sentence and not a full one.      In fact according to the typist JT's very next reply ended with the word.... ''and'.

Quote
snip   ............ let’s ring Bob SMALL to see if it’s relevant at this point and at that point, none of us knew that he wasn’t there on you know, that he didn’t say that he was there on the night and”.
End quote

Here's another example from further on down.
Quote
Reply    “Yeah exactly, I’m not trying to, cos I feel you know, if he’s not involved, the poor chap’s had as much crap as us really, I feel very, you know, he’s not involved but I do think it’s important that”.
End quote

IMO

The 'and'. Don't you think that Jane's sentence just tailed off ? She was going to say something then didn't ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline jassi

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #262 on: January 20, 2018, 04:31:20 PM »
Are you confusing what we are shown with that the PJ have?  I would be most surprised if they had not translated a version into Portuguese for their own use.

In which case, if you haven't seen this Portuguese version  you cannot possibly know if it contains any errors.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 04:39:37 PM by jassi »
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I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #263 on: January 20, 2018, 04:39:05 PM »
I think there is little doubt that Gerry was suffering from False Memory syndrome.


Jane adjusted her position after having given that answer.   It is not easy to suddenly and spontaniously remember an exact place along a road ... especially if it was unimportant to her at the time.

My thought is that after answering the questions, she went and visually checked it out .... and upon seeing the place it jogged memory


A further thought is that Albym translated.  Did he mix the meaning of the word * door * up with the word * gate * ?   

In other words did Jane actually say that  "The two were standing just up the hill from the * door *, [meaning the door from the tapas reception building] .... but Albym misunderstood ?

Anyone know if the words * door * and * gate * in Portuguese can be the same word?

Just to get this clear, you think that revisiting the scene would have jogged her memory. But for some reason this would not be the case in a reconstitution?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Benice

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #264 on: January 20, 2018, 05:41:30 PM »
The 'and'. Don't you think that Jane's sentence just tailed off ? She was going to say something then didn't ?

Yes that could be the case  -  but there still should have been a row of dots after the 'and' to indicate that.  It's only because we know that sentences never end with an 'and' that we can safely assume it was an unfinished sentence.



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #265 on: January 20, 2018, 05:48:39 PM »
Yes that could be the case  -  but there still should have been a row of dots after the 'and' to indicate that.  It's only because we know that sentences never end with an 'and' that we can safely assume it was an unfinished sentence.
They don't add in the punctuation in rogatory interviews i.e. I don't think you will ever find a row of dots in an unfinished sentence.
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Offline Carana

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #266 on: January 20, 2018, 05:52:52 PM »
They don't add in the punctuation in rogatory interviews i.e. I don't think you will ever find a row of dots in an unfinished sentence.

There might be a reason for that that I hadn't thought of. Would adding dots be considered as interpreting voice as opposed to simply transcribing actual words? If so, not the transcriber's job.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #267 on: January 20, 2018, 06:03:20 PM »
There might be a reason for that that I hadn't thought of. Would adding dots be considered as interpreting voice as opposed to simply transcribing actual words? If so, not the transcriber's job.
I'm sure that is it.  They are transcribing not interpreting.
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Offline misty

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #268 on: January 20, 2018, 06:07:47 PM »
There might be a reason for that that I hadn't thought of. Would adding dots be considered as interpreting voice as opposed to simply transcribing actual words? If so, not the transcriber's job.

The online rogatory statements have "transcribed by Duarte Levy" under the headers. Without seeing the signed & witnessed police copies or listening to the DVDs there is no way of knowing just how accurate Mr Levy's transcriptions are & if anything has been edited out..

Offline Carana

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #269 on: January 20, 2018, 06:14:08 PM »
The online rogatory statements have "transcribed by Duarte Levy" under the headers. Without seeing the signed & witnessed police copies or listening to the DVDs there is no way of knowing just how accurate Mr Levy's transcriptions are & if anything has been edited out..

LOLLL

Hmmm. They weren't released on the DVD, but were obtained by other means might be a more logical explanation for that one.