Author Topic: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?  (Read 58532 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #285 on: January 20, 2018, 08:37:23 PM »
Proper investigators don't work on the premise of invented scenarios. If they did, they'd never get anywhere.
Tell that to Goncalo Amaral and Tavares de Almeida.  Maybe they'll do better next time. Learn from this case as they say.
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Offline Carana

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #286 on: January 20, 2018, 08:39:34 PM »
Tell that to Goncalo Amaral and Tavares de Almeida.  Maybe they'll do better next time. Learn from this case as they say.

A bit late. Neither of them are active in the police any more.

Offline barrier

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #287 on: January 20, 2018, 08:54:52 PM »
Tell that to Goncalo Amaral and Tavares de Almeida.  Maybe they'll do better next time. Learn from this case as they say.

Scotland Yard and their non existent burglars were doing just what?
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #288 on: January 20, 2018, 09:00:21 PM »
Scotland Yard and their non existent burglars were doing just what?
Who questioned the potential burglars?  I personally think SY was on the right track, but did the PJ take the task of investigating them seriously?  We may never know.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #289 on: January 20, 2018, 09:26:51 PM »
Where would they have made that clear?

Kate did mention some confusion in her book (including when giving informal statements to whoever who'd come over from the UK)- I don't have the book to hand, so I can't check on that.

Of course, Kate could have invented that and those early days could have actually been a well-oiled machine with no room for misunderstandings at any time. 

From my perspective, it's not a case of supporting them or not. I'm just trying to be realistic - and the idea of a well-oiled machine, taking into account the fact that the PJ had little experience of such a case, the stress of the media attention, the probably lack of resources, the language barrier, the urgency of trying to gather information ASAP to try to find a missing child... just doesn't seem realistic to me.

There was a topic ages ago on potential translation issues, but there's now a new one and it's quite a busy thread. Is that a problem?

The group were very interested in making sure that the PJ had every bit of information there was and tht it was correct. As Kate says;

We were concerned that parts of the statements we had made to the Portuguese police, especially on that first day, might have been lost in translation. We also felt that these accounts were not sufficiently thorough and wanted
to have every detail we could remember registered properly. [madeleine]

To that end they got together and produced a document giving a summary of everything that happened which they gave to the PJ on 10th May. Not content with that, the McCanns and three others also gave statements to Control Risks Group on 13th.

The problem is that they still appear to have been unable to get it right, despite the importance they placed on it. All nine are named in the typed timeline and we're told they all agreed with it. Even so, Gerry McCann contradicted it on 10th May, as did Dianne Webster on 11th.

 Those two examples are nothing to do with "the fact that the PJ had little experience of such a case, the stress of the media attention, the probably lack of resources, the language barrier, the urgency of trying to gather information ASAP to try to find a missing child".
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #290 on: January 20, 2018, 09:30:50 PM »
G-unit could you give a little detail of these two issues please? "Even so, Gerry McCann contradicted it on 10th May, as did Dianne Webster on 11th."  What were the issues briefly just to jog my failing memory.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #291 on: January 20, 2018, 09:46:46 PM »
G-unit could you give a little detail of these two issues please? "Even so, Gerry McCann contradicted it on 10th May, as did Dianne Webster on 11th."  What were the issues briefly just to jog my failing memory.

2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

After going through the side gate, and while on his way to the secondary reception entrance, less than 10 metres from the gate, he saw JEZ coming up the street on the opposite pavement bring with him a baby carriage with his youngest child. He crossed the road in JEZ's direction
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

2055: MO returns to apartments to check on ground floor flats, passing David Payne (DP), Fiona Payne (FP) and her mother Dianne Webster (DW) on their way down to the table.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals
described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #292 on: January 20, 2018, 11:22:25 PM »
2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

After going through the side gate, and while on his way to the secondary reception entrance, less than 10 metres from the gate, he saw JEZ coming up the street on the opposite pavement bring with him a baby carriage with his youngest child. He crossed the road in JEZ's direction
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

2055: MO returns to apartments to check on ground floor flats, passing David Payne (DP), Fiona Payne (FP) and her mother Dianne Webster (DW) on their way down to the table.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals
described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
I would like to use your quote here about Jez and Gerald as a basis for a new thread, but the second bit maybe she wasn't really party to the joint time line for later I have read that she recalled passing Matt.   She was obviously confused or forgetful or mistaken on the 11th of May.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 12:03:34 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline sadie

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #293 on: January 21, 2018, 12:23:33 AM »
Just to get this clear, you think that revisiting the scene would have jogged her memory. But for some reason this would not be the case in a reconstitution?
Lets get this clear.

I think that a reconstitution could have been very valuable had it been done instantly .... but months afterwards  *&^^&  %56&

Offline Brietta

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #294 on: January 21, 2018, 12:35:34 AM »
Lets get this clear.

I think that a reconstitution could have been very valuable had it been done instantly .... but months afterwards  *&^^&  %56&

Amaral made some pretty weak excuses IMO as to why he didn't allow a reconstitution in the golden early days.  I wonder what his real reason was?  Was it because he had already decided [without any evidence] that kate and Gerry were responsible?

There is always the possibility that reliance on second hand reports not to mention misunderstanding of custom and practice - such as Kate's request for a priest - certainly did play a role in his thinking.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #295 on: January 21, 2018, 12:59:50 AM »
There is always the possibility that reliance on second hand reports not to mention misunderstanding of custom and practice - such as Kate's request for a priest - certainly did play a role in his thinking.

You seem to have forgotten IMO Brietta.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline sadie

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #296 on: January 21, 2018, 01:18:53 AM »
There is always the possibility that reliance on second hand reports not to mention misunderstanding of custom and practice - such as Kate's request for a priest - certainly did play a role in his thinking.
I dont often diagree with you, Brietta

BUT

I think that you are making excuses for him.

A really good cop would have checked all those things out before leaping to blame the parents with NO EVIDENCE IMO

Offline Brietta

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #297 on: January 21, 2018, 01:28:45 AM »
You seem to have forgotten IMO Brietta.

It would be ludicrous to put 'my opinion' when stating facts ... perhaps you would like to take a glance here to see how Kate's request for a priest was viewed and later portrayed on every sceptic site on the internet ...
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm#p8p1975to1977
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #298 on: January 21, 2018, 01:56:59 AM »
It would be ludicrous to put 'my opinion' when stating facts ... perhaps you would like to take a glance here to see how Kate's request for a priest was viewed and later portrayed on every sceptic site on the internet ...
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm#p8p1975to1977

The word 'possibility' means you don't consider it as a fact so IMO if you please.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Were the translation errors of critical relevance?
« Reply #299 on: January 21, 2018, 07:50:36 AM »
Lets get this clear.

I think that a reconstitution could have been very valuable had it been done instantly .... but months afterwards  *&^^&  %56&

You suggested visiting a location after an event would assist recollection, yes?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.