Conclusion that somebody would have had to have been in the room!

[Robittybob1]

Rachael Rogatory "yeah I mean we basically came to the conclusion that somebody would have had to have been in the room when Gerry had gone in to check'"

Is that a sensible conclusion  - what does the forum think?

[Robittybob1]

Ok I will post a larger part of Rachael's rogatory to see if that will stimulate some discussion.

"1578 'And who was present when she was telling you this''
 Reply 'No just me, just me, cos erm Fi was with Kate and, and Gerry and, well with Kate and Gerry I think and all the boys were sort of, had started to look around and started to, Matt had gone to the Police Station to, no gone to the Ocean Club to phone the Police'.

1578 'What was Janes demeanour when she was telling you this''
 Reply 'Erm she was quite shocked, well we were kind of bit puzzled, cos we thought well you know, could it really have been cos Gerry had just been in, erm but it was a bit of a sort of Jane was like, everybody gob smacked really that you know, she could well have seen Madeleine, erm but we did, you know we, we didn't have this discussion about whether it could have been just because of the sort of time of Gerry going in and him standing outside talking to Jez and you know, it would have been, somebody would have had to you know, sort of be very quick, or have been in the room when Gerry had gone in, we didn't talk about that at that time but, you know afterwards, erm obviously that was, I think we kept, yeah I mean we basically came to the conclusion that somebody would have had to have been in the room when Gerry had gone in to check'.

01.21.46 1578 'Okay'.
 Reply 'So anyway Jane and I you know talked about that and, and then I can't remember whether she told, I think she told Fiona then, erm I mean basically you know as soon as the Police arrived, she told, she told the Police'. "

Who was present? - Jane and Rachael.

Where were the others?  (total of others 7)  Kate Gerry and Fiona in the apartment 5A.
Russell and David searching.
Matt - going to main reception to call the police.
Dianne - in the Tapas area. (not mentioned)

Later Conclusion  "we didn't talk about that at that time but, you know afterwards, erm obviously that was, I think we kept, yeah I mean we basically came to the conclusion that somebody would have had to have been in the room when Gerry had gone in to check'. "


If you were the abductor where would you hide?

[Robittybob1]

The Paynes had just come down to the Tapas at 9:00 PM
Matt had done a listening check at all 3 ground floor apartments.
Then Gerry turns up.
Jez in the area walking his child in a push chair. 

That means there was not much time involved, would they need a key to the front door?  But then they would leave by the front door and lock it, why then open the window? 
They may have entered by the side door and left by the window (but the forensics said it was unlikely anyone climbed through the window to escape).

Could the person have been in there longer (like entering while the McCanns resting up prior to going to the Tapas)?  That would be an extreme move and in daylight/evening.  Nowhere to logically hide when Kate and Gerry were still there.

[jassi]

Rachael Rogatory "yeah I mean we basically came to the conclusion that somebody would have had to have been in the room when Gerry had gone in to check'"

Is that a sensible conclusion  - what does the forum think?

For Tannerman to be the man, something like this would need to be true. Nothing else will support their narrative.

OG have dispelled the idea that Tannerman was the man and looked towards Smithman.

[Robittybob1]

For Tannerman to be the man, something like this would need to be true. Nothing else will support their narrative.

OG have dispelled the idea that Tannerman was the man and looked towards Smithman.

What sort of sedative would Tannerman have used to knock her out?
When did he get in and how did he get out? 

It seems difficult for me to accept that Tannerman was abducting Madeleine,  But Crecheman has just as many issues IMO  - direction of walking, did he see Jane, what time did he go past?

[jassi]

What sort of sedative would Tannerman have used to knock her out?
When did he get in and how did he get out? 

It seems difficult for me to accept that Tannerman was abducting Madeleine,  But Crecheman has just as many issues IMO  - direction of walking, did he see Jane, what time did he go past?

I'm afraid that that is for OG to know, and you to guess.

Perhaps a large piece of sticky tape across the mouth would be sufficient.

[Robittybob1]

I'm afraid that that is for OG to know, and you to guess.

Perhaps a large piece of sticky tape across the mouth would be sufficient.

https://youtu.be/XZefR25GGKg?t=57

[Robittybob1]

I'm afraid that that is for OG to know, and you to guess.

Perhaps a large piece of sticky tape across the mouth would be sufficient.

Making something out of nothing.

[Brietta]

I think there was room for an intruder to hide inside the wardrobe in the room ... behind the room door ... or crouched behind the travel cot with opaque panels at top or bottom.

However if the person was almost caught in the room, I don't think being cornered like that was the reason for opening the window ... I think that was to enable him/her to pass Madeleine through to an accomplice waiting outside ... before exiting, probably via the front door and be long gone before Jane Tanner turned the corner.

[Robittybob1]

I think there was room for an intruder to hide inside the wardrobe in the room ... behind the room door ... or crouched behind the travel cot with opaque panels at top or bottom.

However if the person was almost caught in the room, I don't think being cornered like that was the reason for opening the window ... I think that was to enable him/her to pass Madeleine through to an accomplice waiting outside ... before exiting, probably via the front door and be long gone before Jane Tanner turned the corner.

Well that was 3 interesting suggestions.    The wardrobe doesn't look very large depth wise and behind the door seems too small.
If for some reason someone was surprised by Gerry turning up minutes after Matt's check at 9:00 an intruder could be caught by surprise in the room.  If Gerry doesn't turn on the lights hiding behind the cots seems rather  straight forward and possible.

[pathfinder73]

I think there was room for an intruder to hide inside the wardrobe in the room ... behind the room door ... or crouched behind the travel cot with opaque panels at top or bottom.

However if the person was almost caught in the room, I don't think being cornered like that was the reason for opening the window ... I think that was to enable him/her to pass Madeleine through to an accomplice waiting outside ... before exiting, probably via the front door and be long gone before Jane Tanner turned the corner.

A cot was in front of the wardrobe. I would like to see anybody open the wardrobe door to get inside. He wasn't behind the door whilst Gerry was having his proud father moment - Madeleine was in the same position according to Gerry so nice of the abductor to wait for him before taking her. Oh my days 

[Robittybob1]

A cot was in front of the wardrobe. I would like to see anybody open the wardrobe door to get inside. He wasn't behind the door whilst Gerry was having his proud father moment - Madeleine was in the same position according to Gerry so nice of the abductor to wait for him before taking her. Oh my days 


That is a good point access to the wardrobe is restricted.

It would be good to have had a scale diagram of the rooms.  The furnishings don't look to scale in this diagram

[Alice Purjorick]

A mystical wondrous beast that left no trace discernible to modern [2007 style] forensic science.

[Mr Gray]

A mystical wondrous beast that left no trace discernible to modern [2007 style] forensic science.

Modern forensic science is limited by the competence of the police in collecting samples that they can then analyse

[Robittybob1]

A mystical wondrous beast that left no trace discernible to modern [2007 style] forensic science.

Do you really believe the forensics were applied properly?  Weren't the sheets from the bed Madeleine slept on  laundered the following day?

According to Davel.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8513.msg432473#msg432473

An even more explicit description http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8207.msg407691#msg407691
"Madeleine: How the police ruined the forensic evidence in her bedroom

By the time officers returned to the Ocean Club apartment more than 24 hours after Madeleine's disappearance, cleaners at the holiday complex had washed the sheets, blankets and pillowcase.

A source from the Portuguese police laboratory said: "Some important clue could have been found on those items besides hair, which was what was sent to the institute.

"They forgot that the items in the bedroom could hypothetically have had fibres belonging to a possible abductor or even a fingerprint."
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-how-the-police-ruined-the-forensic-evidence-in-her-bedroom-6646747.html"