Where were Jez and Gerry standing when they did their talking? Ideas solutions

[sadie]

It has been pointed out that the evidence was typed in English by Russell O'Brien on a laptop borrowed from Georgina the tennis coach. Look!

Where does it say that it was typed up by Russell himself?

[Robittybob1]

"At about 21.20, their friend Jane passed by the apartment (along the corridor of the main entrance) she saw an individual carrying a child."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm

1. Is it the corridor of the secondary reception main entrance?

2. Is it the corridor in front of the apartments main entrance i.e. car park side?

Anything Vitor knows would be 3rd hand at best.  In fact how would he know anything?  How the hell did he find out anything about this to become as expert on it?  I think you have just come up with the best clue yet!
"At about 21.20, their friend Jane passed by the apartment (along the corridor of the main entrance) she saw an individual carrying a child who passed descending the road, however she did not recognise this individual, nor the child, only having noticed that the individual appeared to be aged between 30 or 40, had dark hair and light coloured trousers." 
He doesn't say he spoke to Jane. directly.
Did Jane speak directly to Gerry or was it Russell who Jane spoke to and Russell speak to Gerry?

[Brietta]

Two of the witnesses did and never changed their stance. I think that tells us all we need to know.

Are you responding to the post you have answered?  If so ... which two of the three in your opinion, have never changed their stance?

Jes thought he crossed the road to speak with Gerry;  Gerry thought he crossed the road to speak with Jes and stood on the road while in conversation; coming upon them when they were stationary Jane could only remember that one stood on the pavement and one stood on the road but was not specific about which pavement or who stood where.
If Jes crossed from his stated starting point to approach Gerry ... he would be the one standing on the road ... with his child and buggy also on the road.

We don't actually need to know anything though, do we.  But in my opinion a tad unsafe for "us" to form any firm conclusions about an event which "we" did not witness when those who were there could not.
These are early memories from the three who were there, supposedly more reliable than later ones, but I don't see the formation of any steadfast stance being made by anyone.

Sometimes I think the sheer horror of the situation these people found themselves in ... two less than an hour later ... and the trauma suffered as a result, is generally underrated.

[Robittybob1]

Where does it say that it was typed up by Russell himself?

It was called the agreed timeline or whatever but what certainty can we get that it was agreed to by all those named in it?  Surely you'd think it would have to be signed off by the participants if jointly constructed.

[Brietta]

Why was Jez on the wrong side in the first place?

In my opinion there was no right or wrong side for Jes who describes himself as ending up in dead end lanes and generally walking in circles as he tried to walk his son to sleep.

[G-Unit]

Shown a typed time line typed on a lap top borrowed from female tennis coach Georgina, seven adults there when time line drawn up, then shown to the MC CANN’S afterwards for them to make any alterations or additions. Was written after the first weekend after Madeleine’s disappearance this was following David PAYNE’S suggestion.  It was checked against initial draft, it was a group recollection and with the groups agreement.  The document was typed on the laptop USB flash disk which was handed to the PJ when I went to complete my statement.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

[slartibartfast]

Shown a typed time line typed on a lap top borrowed from female tennis coach Georgina, seven adults there when time line drawn up, then shown to the MC CANN’S afterwards for them to make any alterations or additions. Was written after the first weekend after Madeleine’s disappearance this was following David PAYNE’S suggestion.  It was checked against initial draft, it was a group recollection and with the groups agreement.  The document was typed on the laptop USB flash disk which was handed to the PJ when I went to complete my statement.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

Group Dynamics takes hold, the recollections of the strong personalities override those of the more compliant and you get a timeline based on the strongest and agreed by all.

[faithlilly]

Are you responding to the post you have answered?  If so ... which two of the three in your opinion, have never changed their stance?

Jes thought he crossed the road to speak with Gerry;  Gerry thought he crossed the road to speak with Jes and stood on the road while in conversation; coming upon them when they were stationary Jane could only remember that one stood on the pavement and one stood on the road but was not specific about which pavement or who stood where.
If Jes crossed from his stated starting point to approach Gerry ... he would be the one standing on the road ... with his child and buggy also on the road.

We don't actually need to know anything though, do we.  But in my opinion a tad unsafe for "us" to form any firm conclusions about an event which "we" did not witness when those who were there could not.
These are early memories from the three who were there, supposedly more reliable than later ones, but I don't see the formation of any steadfast stance being made by anyone.

Sometimes I think the sheer horror of the situation these people found themselves in ... two less than an hour later ... and the trauma suffered as a result, is generally underrated.

Wilkins and Jane never changed the side of the road the men conducted their chat on.

[faithlilly]

Group Dynamics takes hold, the recollections of the strong personalities override those of the more compliant and you get a timeline based on the strongest and agreed by all.

Agreed. I feel rather sorry for Jane at times. She does seem rather easily bullied.

[G-Unit]

Agreed. I feel rather sorry for a Jane at times. She does seem rather easily bullied.

Both Jane herself and Russell were very upset in their rog. interviews by the way she had been treated . I wonder how they felt after her opinion was dismissed by Gerry and the documentary makers in 2009?

[pathfinder73]

Anything Vitor knows would be 3rd hand at best.  In fact how would he know anything?  How the hell did he find out anything about this to become as expert on it?  I think you have just come up with the best clue yet!
"At about 21.20, their friend Jane passed by the apartment (along the corridor of the main entrance) she saw an individual carrying a child who passed descending the road, however she did not recognise this individual, nor the child, only having noticed that the individual appeared to be aged between 30 or 40, had dark hair and light coloured trousers." 
He doesn't say he spoke to Jane. directly.
Did Jane speak directly to Gerry or was it Russell who Jane spoke to and Russell speak to Gerry?

At about 21.05 - 21.15 Gerald went to the bedroom to see the children, he saw the bedroom door was half way open which he found strange as he thought he had left it pushed to, however he entered and saw the children and saw that the window as well as the shutter were closed. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm

Well done Inspector.

[Brietta]

Agreed. I feel rather sorry for Jane at times. She does seem rather easily bullied.

You think?  In my opinion she has put the internet bullies to shame with her quiet and dignified ignoring of the abuse they have meted out to her over the years.

She never fingered Murat ... despite the opportunity to do so she wasn't bullied into that.  In my opinion a very emphatic and empathetic personality indeed.

In my opinion she is a rock.

[Robittybob1]

At about 21.05 - 21.15 Gerald went to the bedroom to see the children, he saw the bedroom door was half way open which he found strange as he thought he had left it pushed to, however he entered and saw the children and saw that the window as well as the shutter were closed. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm

Well done Inspector.

How would Gerry have know the shutters were closed?  Did he enter via the front door? Then he would have passed the shutters of Madeleine's room but if he made that assessment from within the room, how did he do it? Especially if the widow is closed you aren't going to get whooshing curtains.

[jassi]

How would Gerry have know the shutters were closed? Did he enter via the front door? Then he would have passed the shutters of Madeleine's room but if he made that assessment from within the room, how did he do it? Especially if the widow is closed you aren't going to get whooshing curtains.

He couldn't decide. First he said he did, then he said he didn't 

[slartibartfast]

You think?  In my opinion she has put the internet bullies to shame with her quiet and dignified ignoring of the abuse they have meted out to her over the years.

She never fingered Murat ... despite the opportunity to do so she wasn't bullied into that.  In my opinion a very emphatic and empathetic personality indeed.

In my opinion she is a rock.

There seems to be some debate as to the IDing.