What is the provenance of the joint time line.

[Brietta]

A good example of why a joint timeline should never have been attempted. People are interviewed to find out what they saw and what they remember. Dianne clearly had no recollection of meeting Matthew so she should not have allowed her name to go on that timeline. Very foolish in my opinion.
 
Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the PAYNE couple) for dinner the witness said no.
- Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

They did so with the best of intentions and I believe with the acquiescence of the police.

But I agree.  If at all they should have written individual accounts to keep events fresh in mind; but isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Or even better ... the police should have arranged interpreters and taken interim statements for themselves rather than waiting for the office hours of the 4th.

[jassi]

They did so with the best of intentions and I believe with the acquiescence of the police.

But I agree.  If at all they should have written individual accounts to keep events fresh in mind; but isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Or even better ... the police should have arranged interpreters and taken interim statements for themselves rather than waiting for the office hours of the 4th.

As you say, isn't hindsight wonderful.

[Brietta]

As you say, isn't hindsight wonderful.

For the civilians ... yes.
For trained investigators ... just an elementary diligence.

[Robittybob1]

A good example of why a joint timeline should never have been attempted. People are interviewed to find out what they saw and what they remember. Dianne clearly had no recollection of meeting Matthew so she should not have allowed her name to go on that timeline. Very foolish in my opinion.
 
Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the PAYNE couple) for dinner the witness said no.
- Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

There are different ways of  explaining things IMO. 

[G-Unit]

There are different ways of  explaining things IMO.

I don't know what you mean.

[Robittybob1]

I don't know what you mean.

if she was party to the joint time line surely she would have remembered that then not a year or so later.  I felt let down.   

[G-Unit]

if she was party to the joint time line surely she would have remembered that then not a year or so later.  I felt let down.   

It gets better. During their rogatory interviews the Paynes had grasped that they had passed Matthew. But where?
Dianne wasn't asked, which is a shame, but Dave manages to mess it up this time;

 Reply    “Yeah well at that, that was the point you see, at that time I don’t, I didn’t remember having passed Matt on the way but you know as time’s gone on and, and err I think Dave, Dave or Fiona mentioned it and that’s, I did then remember.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

Matthew said;

and on my way up, about at that top corner before you turn left to get round the back, as you go up the top of the hill, we sort of passed on the way down
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Fiona pretty much agrees;

And just as we were approaching, erm, probably outside kind of the, Kate and Gerry's gate, that sort of area, erm, we bumped into Matt who was heading back to chase us up,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Now Dave gets into a tangle;

1485 "Whereabouts did you pass him''
 Reply "Err''
1485 "Can you mark, just''
 Reply "Yeah, the err where's, this is the entrance here into the Tapas area.'
 1485 "Yeah.'
 Reply "Err my recollection was that we were just got, you know we were round there, I thought we'd actually entered into the Tapas bar to just''

1485 "Actually into the complex''
 Reply "Just, just into the complex
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[jassi]

Screams false memory to me.

[Robittybob1]

It gets better. During their rogatory interviews the Paynes had grasped that they had passed Matthew. But where?
Dianne wasn't asked, which is a shame, but Dave manages to mess it up this time;

 Reply    “Yeah well at that, that was the point you see, at that time I don’t, I didn’t remember having passed Matt on the way but you know as time’s gone on and, and err I think Dave, Dave or Fiona mentioned it and that’s, I did then remember.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

Matthew said;

and on my way up, about at that top corner before you turn left to get round the back, as you go up the top of the hill, we sort of passed on the way down
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Fiona pretty much agrees;

And just as we were approaching, erm, probably outside kind of the, Kate and Gerry's gate, that sort of area, erm, we bumped into Matt who was heading back to chase us up,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Now Dave gets into a tangle;

1485 "Whereabouts did you pass him''
 Reply "Err''
1485 "Can you mark, just''
 Reply "Yeah, the err where's, this is the entrance here into the Tapas area.'
 1485 "Yeah.'
 Reply "Err my recollection was that we were just got, you know we were round there, I thought we'd actually entered into the Tapas bar to just''

1485 "Actually into the complex''
 Reply "Just, just into the complex
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

So how do you sort that out?  Why was there not just a simple answer?  Maybe we don't actually remember every thing. I am sure I don't.

[G-Unit]

So how do you sort that out?  Why was there not just a simple answer?  Maybe we don't actually remember every thing. I am sure I don't.

I don't know if the truth will ever be known, but in my opinion the problems they faced were of their own making. Producing a joint timeline to help the police didn't work at all. In fact it probably aroused suspicion, particularly when individual statements disagreed with it. Add in the fact that they disagreed with each other and, in some cases, with their own earlier statements and it's hardly surprising that the PJ became suspicious.

[slartibartfast]

I don't know if the truth will ever be known, but in my opinion the problems they faced were of their own making. Producing a joint timeline to help the police didn't work at all. In fact it probably aroused suspicion, particularly when individual statements disagreed with it. Add in the fact that they disagreed with each other and, in some cases, with their own earlier statements and it's hardly surprising that the PJ became suspicious.

There is a term that is frequently used when a group of witnesses get together to agree what happened.

[Robittybob1]

There is a term that is frequently used when a group of witnesses get together to agree what happened.

It has elements of collusion or calibration or correction depends on how one sees it. 

[Brietta]

There is a term that is frequently used when a group of witnesses get together to agree what happened.

It is worth bearing in mind that this group were witnesses at the time and are still witnesses today.  Nothing else.

[Robittybob1]

It is worth bearing in mind that this group were witnesses at the time and are still witnesses today.  Nothing else.

But it was an offence for witnesses to lie, as we are led to believe.  I suppose they are safe for it would be impossible to prove who was in error.  3 people are saying 3 different things, so you might think 2 of them are wrong  but who were they?

[Alice Purjorick]

It is worth bearing in mind that this group were witnesses at the time and are still witnesses today.  Nothing else.

Which may go part way to explaining the reluctance to return for a reconstitution.