Author Topic: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?  (Read 830 times)

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Offline Baz

Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2018, 04:02:44 PM »
This quote is from The Law Pages website....

I have areas initially that I have done in bold... And other areas to question.

(1): Smothering... Since when was smothering the cause of Joanna Yeates death? I thought the prosecution had
                           always insisted that Dr Vincent Tabak had strangled Joanna Yeates with 2 hands... And as DCI
                           Jones had said.. "he squeezed and squeezed.

Wasn't his evidence that he put a hand over her mouth to stop her screaming. That's the smoothering they are referring to probably.

Quote

(2):Medical Evidence
      Suggests....... Suggesting isn't evidence, Evidence supports events, not the suggestion of what may or may not
                           have taken place.

I think suggests is a perfectly valid word to be used in this context. Evidence suggests a certain picture of events that the experts interpret.

Quote
(3):Landlord: ....  Who actually was Dr Vincent Tabak's landlord?

Christopher Jefferies

Quote

(4): Volvo.........   Who owned the Volvo that was parked on the drive??  There were 2 silver cars removed on the
                           same day on Canygne Road one was a Chrysler and one was a Volvo,which car did CJ own??
I'm pretty sure that Christopher Jefferies' car was the volvo. I'm not sure that was ever in dispute.

Quote
(5): Landlord/car..  Is the owner of the Volvo Dr Vincent Tabak's landlord? Is that a totally different person to CJ?
No it's Christopher Jefferies' car, Tabak's landlord.

Quote
(9): The Jury       : Why were the jury told about the porn when it had not been introduced into evidence? There
                            was no proof that this porn or any images that were not used at trial were from Dr Vincent
                            Tabak's computer... So How could they tell the Jury??

The judge decided that the Jury didn't need to hear about the porn in terms of premeditation. I'm pretty sure he only brought it up during his sentencing, so once the Jury had already reached their verdict. Neither of us are versed enough in the law to know what a judge can and can not use during his sentencing. Perhaps he, like most like minded people, thought that the fact he got off on videos of women being hurt was significant to his character.

Quote

(10):                  : An Intention to Kill or Cause Serious Bodily Harm, planned...  Now he either intended to kill, Or
                            he intended to cause serious bodily harm, you can't have both, one voids the other. The
                            Prosecution are telling us two stories, They apparently always believed that Dr Vincent Tabak
                            had intended to kill Joanna Yeates.. If they are now bringing an alternative into the mix
                            themselves, they have created reasonable doubt and therefore it cannot have been a planned
                            "Murder".. And as far as I can tell "Murder" should have been the only reason The Prosecution
                            had! They can't have two alternatives... As there was no evidence to support the idea of planning
                            as the apparent evidence Dr Vincent Tabak gave on the stand.Claims it was on the spur of the
                            moment. Where was the proof of planning..

If having two options does create reasonable doubt surely the doubt is only over whether he just wanted to seriously hurt her or wanted to kill her. It doesn't provide reasonable doubt of whether it was him or not.

Quote
I know nothing about Law... But I sure no they cannot use material that wasn't evidence.. If he had been convicted before in relation to porn material.. maybe.. But not as a way of justifying Judge Field's sentence based on a sexually motivated murder when there had been No evidence to support this...

Why is everyone ignoring these flagrant breaches of law that have surrounded this case from the start!

You contradict yourself. You say you know nothing about law and they claim to know something for sure. If we apply some logic we can assume that the judge looked at the porn evidence and decided that whilst it didn't prove premeditation it still said something about Tabak's character. Also doesn't it make more sense that no one brought up this "flagrant breach of the law" because it wasn't one and we just don't understand the law.

Offline Baz

Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2018, 04:09:26 PM »
Quote

So Dr Vincent Tabak was an Occupant of another Flat within the same building.... Not next door then??  Not where apparently he had easy access to carry a body into his flat with no-one noticing???


I do not know the layout of the building they all lived in but I think if they both had flats on the same floor in the same building then it is reasonable to refer to each other's flats as next door.


Quote
One last thing Mr Kelcey... The highly publicised case that was "The Trial Of Dr Vincent Tabak" must be one of your most memorable and proudest moments..

Would you like to comment??


I think it unlikely that he visits this forum so if you do generally hope to get any answers to all your questions you would be better of contacting him directly rather than leaving a question on a forum in the hope he'll read it and respond.

Offline Baz

Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2018, 04:11:19 PM »
Quote

There was no investigation by them as far as I can tell...   They didn't even spot that the kitchen window sill had been painted after Joanna Yeates death...



I don't believe it was painted but then we've been through that before.

Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2018, 04:27:30 PM »
Was trying to find why Sally Ramage paper said [unreported].... Came across this...

Quote
Attorney General v MGN Ltd
29 Jul 2011 [2011] EWHC 2074 (Admin); [2012] 1 WLR 2408; [2012] 1 Cr App R 1, DC

CONTEMPT OF COURT — Pending proceedings — Impending course of justice
[2012] 1 WLR 2408 from custody on unconditional police bail during the evening of 1 January 2011. On 22 January another man, Vincent Tabak was charged with the murder of Miss Yeates. On 4 March Mr Jefferies was informed that he was released... from police bail. On 5 May Tabak admitted that he was responsible for killing Miss Yeates when, at the Central Criminal Court, he pleaded guilty to …

[2011] EWHC 2074 (Admin) January another man, Vincent Tabak was charged with the murder of Miss Yeates.  On 4 May Tabak admitted that he was responsible for killing Miss Yeates when, at the Central Criminal Court, he pleaded guilty to …

Expand
CONTEMPT OF COURT — Pending proceedings — Impending course of justice — Newspapers publishing derogatory articles about man arrested on suspicion of murder — Suspect later released without charge — Whether articles creating substantial risk of serious impediment or prejudice to course of justice — Whether publishers liable for contempt of court under strict liability rule — Contempt of Court Act 1981, ss 1, 2(2)
2 Case(s) considered
1 Statute considered


Why does it have Dr Vincent Tabak May court appearance as the 4th May 2011??

Had he appeared the day before?? Had he struck a deal the day before?? And then went again via video link on the 5th May 2011??

each paragraph gives us a different day.... 4th or 5th ??

_____________________________________________________________________________________________


I'll continue....




http://iclr.co.uk/search?query=tabak
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Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction /diminished responsibilities
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2018, 04:54:15 PM »
Neutral Citation Number: [2011] EWHC 2074 (Admin)

IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE QUEEN’S BENCH DIVISION

DIVISIONAL COURT
Royal Courts of Justice
Strand, London, WC2A 2LL
Date: 29/07/2011

Before :            THE LORD CHIEF JUSTICE OF ENGLAND AND WALES

                       LORD JUSTICE THOMAS and MR JUSTICE OWEN

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Between :

Her Majesty’s Attorney-General
Claimant

- and -

(1)   MGN Limited

(2)   News Group Newspapers Limited

Defendants

(Transcript of the Handed Down Judgment of

WordWave International Limited

A Merrill Communications Company

165 Fleet Street, London, EC4A 2DY

Tel No:  020 7404 1400, Fax No: 020 7831 8838

Official Shorthand Writers to the Court)

Mr Dominic Grieve QC, Her Majesty’s Attorney-General and Miss Melanie Cumberland (instructed by the Treasury Solicitor) for the Claimant

Mr Jonathan Caplan QC (Instructed by Reynolds Porter Chamberlain LLP) for the First Defendant

Miss Adrienne Page QC and Mr Anthony Hudson (Instructed by Farrer & Co) for the Second Defendant

Hearing date: 5th July 2011

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Judgment

As Approved by the Court

Crown copyright©

Quote
The Context

The proceedings arise from the killing of a young woman, Joanna Yeates, in Bristol on 17th December 2010.  Her landlord, Christopher Jefferies, was arrested on 30th December on suspicion of her murder.  He was released from custody on unconditional police bail during the evening of 1st January 2011.  On 22nd January another man, Vincent Tabak was charged with the murder of Miss Yeates.  On 4th March Mr Jefferies was informed that he was released from police bail.  On 5th May Tabak admitted that he was responsible for killing Miss Yeates when, at the Central Criminal Court, he pleaded guilty to her manslaughter. He denied murder on the basis of diminished responsibility.  The trial of that issue will take place in the autumn.
There is therefore no doubt about the identity of the man who killed Miss Yeates or that Mr Jefferies is innocent of any involvement in it.

There is therefore no doubt about the identity of the man who killed Miss Yeates or that Mr Jefferies is innocent of any involvement in it.  By way of emphasis, he is not simply presumed in law to be innocent of the killing.  As a matter of fact and reality he is innocent.  He is not facing trial, and he will never face trial.


Aha.... We at last have discovered he plead guilty to manslaughter based on 'Diminished Responsibilities"...

So where was any supporting evidence at trial with regards "ANY" Diminished Responsibilities???

Why didn't Ann Reddrop accept the Manslaughter Plea with Diminished Responsibilities??

And more importantly ... why weren't these Diminished responsibilities NOT Brought to Dr Vincent Tabak's trial !!!

What were these "Diminished Responsibilities"???

Quote
The trial of that issue will take place in the autumn.

And... That issue was "Never" addressed at trial!!!!


You can download the pdf from the link below....

http://iclr.co.uk/document/2011201901/%5B2011%5D%20EWHC%202074%20(Admin)/html?query=tabak&filter=content-available%3A%22Transcript%22&fullSearchFields=&page=1&sort=relevance&pageSize=10

« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 09:53:21 PM by Nine.. Again »
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Offline Simple Simon

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« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 09:51:43 PM by Nine.. Again »
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Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2018, 01:45:35 PM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9127.msg445746#msg445746

This post I want to correct myself.. I believe i made a slight error.

Quote
On 5th May Tabak admitted that he was responsible for killing Miss Yeates when, at the Central Criminal Court, he pleaded guilty to her manslaughter.  He denied murder on the basis of diminished responsibility.  The trial of that issue will take place in the autumn.

It was an oversight... But an Interesting one...

He Denied Murder on the Grounds Of Diminished Responsibilities

But therefore does that mean that he denies "Murder'??? 

That is only a Defence for the charge of Murder.... Not that it wasn't Murder...

So therefore how can he then admit "Manslaughter"?? And do the grounds of 'Dimished Responsibilities still come into play...
They should do (IMO)

 If Dr Vincent Tabak had admitted "Murder". (but on the grounds of diminished responsibilities)
 Why did Ann Reddrop not accept that plea??


She tells everyone that The Prosecutions case was that it had always been Murder!..
Well according to The Lord Chief Justice he admitted that fact!

Because it is only when at trial does The Grounds of 'Diminished Responsibilities" comes into play as a Defence... (as was the yorkshire rippers defence I believe...) That the jury decide whether or not that is a good Defence...

Did Dr Vincent Tabak plead guilty to "Murder" on the grounds of Diminshed Responsibilities on 5th May 2011 as " The Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales stated in the case of CJ on the 5th July 2011


The Lord Chief justice.. clearly states on this document that Dr Vincent Tabak pleaded

"Guilty to Murder on The Grounds of Diminished Responsibility" (imo)

By saying he denied "Murder on The Grounds of Diminished Responsibilities"

So why all the fuss in The Media that Dr Vincent Tabak plead not guilty to Murder .. But Guilty to Manslaughter... Which is not the case (imo)..



http://iclr.co.uk/document/2011201901/%5B2011%5D%20EWHC%202074%20(Admin)/html?query=tabak&filter=content-available%3A%22Transcript%22&fullSearchFields=&page=1&sort=relevance&pageSize=10



https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/documents/uploaded-documents/120209_-_The_Defence_of_Diminished_Responsibility.pdf
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 01:58:39 PM by Nine.. Again »
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Offline Leonora

Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2018, 02:15:30 PM »
"Diminished responsibility" has not been mentioned in any other context relating to this case, so you are falling into your usual trap of leaping to all sorts of wild conclusions based on the assumption that this document is gospel truth. The most probable explanation is that the lawyer who phrased the sentence made a mistake. The second possibility is that he had access to inside information, that someone at the plea hearing on 5 May uttered the words "diminished responsibility", but that they never got any further in the arraignment.

With the hindsight of the trial in October, we KNOW with 100 percent certainty that Vincent Tabak's guilty plea had to be false, one way or another. If you can't accept the huge wealth of evidence that it was entered by an imposter, then you MUST confront the alternatives, such as hypnotism or the threat of violence.

The trial shows that the police never even had enough evidence even to make him a suspect. If they had done, they would certainly have produced it, since they went to great lengths to call false witnesses for the prosecution. Therefore Vincent Tabak never had a reason to plead anything other than not guilty. The chaplain was put into the witness box to persuade the court the opposite. However, anyone who is not mesmerised by the power of authority knows that nothing the chaplain himself said under oath incriminated the defendant at all. On the contrary, it was Mr Clegg's clever trickery during cross-examination, pretending to incriminate his own client, that showed that all five of them had conspired to deceive the jury.

A secondary reason for relocating to the Old Bailey may have been to make the first application for the bad character evidence without the public hearing about it. Those of you who still believe in the integrity of the criminal justice system MUST conclude that this evidence would have been first discussed at this hearing.

Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2018, 03:32:42 PM »
leonora.. What i am saying is i find it strange that Dr Vincent Tabak was even mentioned in the context of CJ's case against the papers... Whether or not The Lord Chief Justice divulges incorrect admissions by Dr Vincent Tabak, in my opinion is neither here nor there...

I believe that Dr Vincent Tabak's name should NOT have been mentioned at all in connection of anything to do with CJ in CJ's case...

I have always said I do not believe that Dr Vincent Tabak confessed anything... I still stand by that... But I like to see these documents that have gone before Dr Vincent Tabak's trial... That (IMO) Or prejudicial to Dr Vincent Tabak's trial..

This statement by The Lord Chief Justice is Prejudicial (imo)

Quote
On 5th May Tabak admitted that he was responsible for killing Miss Yeates when, at the Central Criminal Court, he pleaded guilty to her manslaughter.  He denied murder on the basis of diminished responsibility.

Because by saying that he has twice admitted Dr Vincent Tabaks guilt... And on re-reading that as I did.. It is basically saying that Dr Vincent Tabak admitted to Murder..

When we have no evidence that Dr Vincent Tabak admitted to anything...

The pdf is from 5th July 2011 just months before the trial... Everyone had been following CJ's case and him suing the papers... Which in turn means that they would be informed of Dr Vincent Tabak's position just before trial...

leonora.. I am not falling into a trap.. I'm pointing out "WHY" It was even mentioned by The Lord Chief Justice"...

Because (imo) Again... It never should have been !!!!
What needs remembering, is that the jury were selected for Bristol crown Court for the month of October well in advance... many of them may have realised that they could end up on case of Dr Vincent Tabak... Or should I say The Joanna Yeates Case... And read up about the case and CJ's case in July 2011

Anything published in any respect to the case before trial is Prejudicial And especially saying that Dr vincent Tabak is guilty..(imo)

And this from the same document...

Quote
There is therefore no doubt about the identity of the man who killed Miss Yeates or that Mr Jefferies is innocent of any involvement in it.  By way of emphasis, he is not simply presumed in law to be innocent of the killing.

The Lord Chief Justice has named Dr Vincent Tabak as the man guilty of killing Joanna yeates... And re-emphasises that fact with the above quote..

No doubt The Identity of the man who killed Miss Yeates...

If that isn't prejudicial... I don't know what is ! This is in July... And if anyone accepts he pleaded Guilty to Manslaughter, then they also must realise he could withdrawn that admission.. (imo)

He did not sign his enhanced statement until September 2011...

Edit.. Manslaughter on the Grounds of Diminished Responsibilities can cover a wide range of things...

Quote
Diminished responsibility is set out in s.2 of the Homicide Act 1957 as amended by s.52 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009. To rely on the defence, the defendant must be able to demonstrate the following:
 
An abnormality of mental functioning caused by a recognised medical condition.
Which provides an explanation for the defendant’s acts or omissions in being party to the killing.
Which substantially impaired his/her mental ability to either:
a)      Understand the nature of their conduct or

b)      Form a rational judgment or

c)      Exercise self–control

That idea of Diminished Responsibilities leaves many questions...  That is all leonora  ?{)(**

Edit... Also leonora The main problem with The Lord Chief Justice saying that Dr Vincent Tabak is "Guilty"...
Is... Everyone is supposed to be Innocent until "PROVEN" GUILTY" in a court of Law... Not Guilty until proven Guiltier.. I believe I have said this before...

Isn't appearing in court supposed to start with "The Presumption of Innocence"?? No trial had taken place before the statement that The Lord Chief Justice made in CJ's case... Therefore Dr Vincent Tabak cannot be deemed to be guilty...(imo) Or "Responsible"!

http://iclr.co.uk/document/2011201901/%5B2011%5D%20EWHC%202074%20(Admin)/html?query=tabak&filter=content-available%3A%22Transcript%22&fullSearchFields=&page=1&sort=relevance&pageSize=10

http://e-lawresources.co.uk/Diminished-responsibility.php
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 09:58:08 AM by Nine.. Again »
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Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2018, 04:25:36 PM »
The last thing I will say for now ... Is the Case against Dr Vincent Tabak was a complete balls up, everything we see creates doubt... Everything they omit, creates doubt.. Every time they make statements about him before trial is prejudicial (imo)....Every time we look at Flat 1 44,Canygne Road creates doubt...

The British Justice System must be seeing the brown stuff, when ever this case gets mentioned... They just want to slam the door shut on the whole affair..

But is that the way to go forward?? The Law is the law, and people should be punished according to the law, and if they manage to slip through because of a loop hole or error then that is the responsibility of the persons collecting or presenting the evidence..

If the chain of command and protocol isn't followed, again that is others who are responsible...

We cannot pick and choose how we are going to send someone to prison because we believe that they are guilty, even if we cannot prove that to be the case. We have to maintain the law.. Because we are all expected to abide by it.....

So whether you believe Dr Vincent Tabak Guilty.. Or like me believe he is Innocent.. We should all expect that the law is maintained and followed.. And proof beyond a reasonable doubt is produced at trial to convict the defendant... And not a wishy washy story that doesn't get supported by any evidence in trial, or a defendant whom is not defended by their own council to the best of their ability..

Anyone can tell a story.... Doesn't mean that story is true... !



« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 05:44:24 PM by Nine.. Again »
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Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 10:58:33 PM »
An example of prejudiced public and jury....

Quote
SteffieJay‏
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I don't understand how #Tabak can claim to be guilty of MANSLAUGHTER if #Yeates did not provoke him? He went out of his way to kill her.

1:36 PM - 11 Oct 2011

See the general public on the 11th October 2011 are all aware of The Manslaughter Plea.... Now what does that say about a jury??

So what happened to The Presumption of Innocence???

Not Guilty until proven Guiltier!

https://twitter.com/steffiejayb16/status/123859475332468736



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Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 11:08:42 PM »
Anyone know what was read out???

Quote
Alex Littlewood‏
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Vincent tabak's police interview statements being read out. "I don't know the girls name" when writing about his knowledge of Jo #yeates

3:12 AM - 11 Oct 2011

https://twitter.com/westnewsprod/status/123702549437100032

Quote
'No comment'
After Tabak was arrested on 20 January, he was interviewed by detectives from Avon and Somerset Police.

He was first questioned by Det Con Richard Barnston at Trinity Road police station.

The court heard that each interview was under caution but Tabak largely exercised his right to give no comment.

He then gave police a prepared statement where he claimed that he did not know Jo Yeates and he had never spoken to her or her boyfriend Greg Reardon.

"Until her picture was shown prominently in the press I would not have recognised her," he told police.

In a second prepared statement he said he had "no knowledge" of how his DNA allegedly came to be found on Miss Yeates's body and clothing and disputed that it was his DNA.

In his statement, he then claimed evidence may have been leaked to the press from the laboratory for "financial gain".

In another interview, he repeatedly answered "no comment" to police questions including whether he had been invited to Miss Yeates' flat, and whether he had made sexual advances towards her.

The case was adjourned until Wednesday.

Who prepared the statement????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15350510
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Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 11:27:27 PM »

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Rupert Evelyn‏
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2nd count of manslaughter attached to indictment today. prosecution have made it clear they wish to have a trial on Murder count. #yeates

2:17 AM - 5 May 2011

If a second count of Manslaughter was added to indictment , then why was it not accepted??

Isn't a second count a totally different offence??

So if count 2 is Manslaughter, who is that the Manslaughter of??

It is the prosecution who make the indictments... So why add it??

Can someone explain how Dr Vincent Tabak could have 2 counts..One for Murder and one for manslaughter ???


https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/drafting-indictment

https://twitter.com/rupertevelyn/status/66069078548299776
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Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 11:31:50 PM »
The Old Bailey Listing at Court Room 2 from MWT.... the link he has given is now broken...

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Mark Williams-Thomas‏Verified account
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RT @rupertevelyn: Old Bailey list 4 tomorrow Ct 2 plea hearing for Vincent Tabak accused of killing Jo #yeates - http://tinyurl.com/3fb6fv9

1:22 PM - 4 May 2011

https://twitter.com/mwilliamsthomas/status/65873924977737729
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Offline Simple Simon

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Re: Did Dr Vincent Tabak's Conviction happen in May/July 2011?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 11:57:36 PM »
Now explain this one???
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Rupert Evelyn‏
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credit where it is due to @betover68 for breaking the news of Tabak charge way ahead of police annoucement. one to follow.

2:33 PM - 22 Jan 2011


https://twitter.com/rupertevelyn/status/28943342817509376

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Samantha‏
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RT @betover68: Official : Vincent Tabak to be charged with murder of Jo Yeates. Suspect apparantly confessed. Police news conference soon.

11:39 AM - 22 Jan 2011

https://twitter.com/WirralMg/status/28899640413790208
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 12:01:20 AM by Nine.. Again »
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