The Smithman e-fits

[Lace]

You DID attribute motive - that it was to increase hits on my blog.  Offensive!

It is NOT up to SY to decide whether the e-fits are flaky.  Research science proves those e-fits are flaky.  Alice's link proves that Surrey police knew such e-fits to be flaky.

SY knew they were flaky, and punted them out anyway.

As for your final question, I would like to find out if Paulo Ribeiro was flame-roasted over just a flaky e-fit, or whether there was more to it.  SY should have disclosed what they thought might have incriminated him.

So you deny that after speaking to these people,  you had any intention of putting what they said on your blog, well that's good news.

Are you saying then,  that a murder inquiry from say 25 years ago,  if reopened the police must not put out an e.fit that was given at the time of that inquiry?

[ShiningInLuz]

Ribeiro was part of a group with burglary convictions, whose phone records placed them in contact with each other around the time Madeleine went missing.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/madeleine-mccann-abducted-during-botched-burglary/

Senhor Ribeiro appears to have known Ricardo Rodrigues, judging by the Panorama 10th special.  Though I cannot confirm this until the case closes.

Here is the issue.

From memory, Senhor Ribeiro was in contact with Ricardo Rodrigues on 2 May, not 3 May.  From Panorama, Senhor Rodrigues claimed he was at home alone on the night of 3 May.

His place of residence can be phone-located to the west part of Luz, unless he was on the same operator as Kate - Optimus.

SY should have presented any suspect phone traffic data to Senhor Ribeiro, in accordance with his arguido status.  I cannot ascertain this legally until the investigations stop.  If he was in his home and made or received a phone call or SMS on the evening of 3 May, it does not incriminate him.  Quite the opposite.

I don't know Ricardo Rodrigues' address in 2007.  His current address puts him in the west of Luz.  If that is where he was in 2007, any phone traffic would also tend to clear him, unless he was on Optimus, when it proves nothing.

The driver is quite different.  He was living in a place where his phone traffic might or might not have shown up in east Luz.  It proves only that he used his phone whilst living in Luz.

[misty]

Senhor Ribeiro appears to have known Ricardo Rodrigues, judging by the Panorama 10th special.  Though I cannot confirm this until the case closes.

Here is the issue.

From memory, Senhor Ribeiro was in contact with Ricardo Rodrigues on 2 May, not 3 May.  From Panorama, Senhor Rodrigues claimed he was at home alone on the night of 3 May.

His place of residence can be phone-located to the west part of Luz, unless he was on the same operator as Kate - Optimus.

SY should have presented any suspect phone traffic data to Senhor Ribeiro, in accordance with his arguido status.  I cannot ascertain this legally until the investigations stop.  If he was in his home and made or received a phone call or SMS on the evening of 3 May, it does not incriminate him.  Quite the opposite.

I don't know Ricardo Rodrigues' address in 2007.  His current address puts him in the west of Luz.  If that is where he was in 2007, any phone traffic would also tend to clear him, unless he was on Optimus, when it proves nothing.

The driver is quite different.  He was living in a place where his phone traffic might or might not have shown up in east Luz.  It proves only that he used his phone whilst living in Luz.

What is your objection to SY attempting to clarify the obvious gaps in your knowledge of the group's activities around the relevant period?

[ShiningInLuz]

What is your objection to SY attempting to clarify the obvious gaps in your knowledge of the group's activities around the relevant period?

My objection is that they do not appear to have done the basics.  And I object to hauling a man who clearly does not have the required mental facilities down to Faro for 2 days. And I object to the entirely stupid idea of digging up central Luz.  And I object to the idea that when one police force issues guidelines that say e-fits should be constructed within 3 days, OG used ones constructed 16 months later.  And I object when OG cannot handle press releases, so Smithman becomes SY's chief suspect, in Portugal.

There is a lot more I object to in OG's approach to this, but I will spare you the angst.

This thread is about the Smithman e-fits.

If you wish to open a thread about OG's handling of this case, I will be happy to join in.

For the moment, I would prefer to stick to the thread topic, namely the Smithman e-fits.

[misty]

My objection is that they do not appear to have done the basics.  And I object to hauling a man who clearly does not have the required mental facilities down to Faro for 2 days. And I object to the entirely stupid idea of digging up central Luz.  And I object to the idea that when one police force issues guidelines that say e-fits should be constructed within 3 days, OG used ones constructed 16 months later.  And I object when OG cannot handle press releases, so Smithman becomes SY's chief suspect, in Portugal.

There is a lot more I object to in OG's approach to this, but I will spare you the angst.

This thread is about the Smithman e-fits.

If you wish to open a thread about OG's handling of this case, I will be happy to join in.

For the moment, I would prefer to stick to the thread topic, namely the Smithman e-fits.

Digging up Luz was carried out on the basis of geoforensics, the same science used by Mark Harrison upon request by the PJ in 2007 when contemplating the death/murder scenario. I do not see why anyone would have an issue with that, other than the short-term disruption to locals.
Would you please provide a link to substantiate your comment that OG have indicated that Smithman was/is the prime suspect in Portugal?

ETA I will not criticise OG or the current PJ team as there is no basis for criticisim of their conduct or actions at this stage.

[ShiningInLuz]

Digging up Luz was carried out on the basis of geoforensics, the same science used by Mark Harrison upon request by the PJ in 2007 when contemplating the death/murder scenario. I do not see why anyone would have an issue with that, other than the short-term disruption to locals.
Would you please provide a link to substantiate your comment that OG have indicated that Smithman was/is the prime suspect in Portugal?

ETA I will not criticise OG or the current PJ team as there is no basis for criticisim of their conduct or actions at this stage.

Short-term disruption to locals?  7 years on?  Are you having a laugh?

The Smithman e-fits were reported in Portugal as SY's new chief suspect.  I believe they were reported similarly in UK media.

If you wish to be pedantic, I will look up cites for both.

I am happy to criticise OG for those points they obviously got entirely wrong.

[misty]

Short-term disruption to locals?  7 years on?  Are you having a laugh?

The Smithman e-fits were reported in Portugal as SY's new chief suspect.  I believe they were reported similarly in UK media.

If you wish to be pedantic, I will look up cites for both.

I am happy to criticise OG for those points they obviously got entirely wrong.

Do you think this disruption was warranted 57 years after a child went missing?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1370907.stm

Crimewatch 2013 did not only focus of the Smith family efits. DCI Redwood said he was particularly interested in the people seen near 5A on 3/5 & their efits were also shown.

[ShiningInLuz]

Do you think this disruption was warranted 57 years after a child went missing?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1370907.stm

Crimewatch 2013 did not only focus of the Smith family efits. DCI Redwood said he was particularly interested in the people seen near 5A on 3/5 & their efits were also shown.

Did they find the child?

Crimewatch et al shoveled lots of sh*t at Luz in particular and the Algarve in general.

To repeat, if you want to discuss if OG have covered themselves in glory, please start a new thread and I will be happy to participate.

But this thread is about the Smithman e-fits.  Scientific research and Surrey Police agree they were a lot of cobblers.

[Carana]

My objection is that they do not appear to have done the basics.  And I object to hauling a man who clearly does not have the required mental facilities down to Faro for 2 days. And I object to the entirely stupid idea of digging up central Luz.  And I object to the idea that when one police force issues guidelines that say e-fits should be constructed within 3 days, OG used ones constructed 16 months later.  And I object when OG cannot handle press releases, so Smithman becomes SY's chief suspect, in Portugal.

There is a lot more I object to in OG's approach to this, but I will spare you the angst.

This thread is about the Smithman e-fits.

If you wish to open a thread about OG's handling of this case, I will be happy to join in.

For the moment, I would prefer to stick to the thread topic, namely the Smithman e-fits.

Are you suggesting that:
- conducting ground searches in part of PdL was useless excercise with no intelligence to warrant it?
- that OG was responsible for the fact that efits weren't organised back in May 07?

[ShiningInLuz]

Are you suggesting that:
- conducting ground searches in part of PdL was useless excercise with no intelligence to warrant it?
- that OG was responsible for the fact that efits weren't organised back in May 07?

The former, not the latter.

[Robittybob1]

The latter bugs me.

[misty]

The latter bugs me.

The mere fact that those of the sceptic persuasion were absolutely delighted Gemma O'Doherty reinforced the importance of the Smithman sighting & the efits demonstrates their importance. The cries of "cover-up" had OG never released them would have been unrelenting. Lawful procedures are suspended for all things which may help to convict the McCanns. IMO.

[Robittybob1]

The mere fact that those of the sceptic persuasion were absolutely delighted Gemma O'Doherty reinforced the importance of the Smithman sighting & the efits demonstrates their importance. The cries of "cover-up" had OG never released them would have been unrelenting. Lawful procedures are suspended for all things which may help to convict the McCanns. IMO.

That is a pretty strong opinion Misty.

[jassi]

The mere fact that those of the sceptic persuasion were absolutely delighted Gemma O'Doherty reinforced the importance of the Smithman sighting & the efits demonstrates their importance. The cries of "cover-up" had OG never released them would have been unrelenting. Lawful procedures are suspended for all things which may help to convict the McCanns. IMO.

Nobody forced OG to feature these e-fits.
Whether you like it or not, Smithman is an important sighting that has yet to be explained.

[Robittybob1]

Nobody forced OG to feature these e-fits.
Whether you like it or not, Smithman is an important sighting that has yet to be explained.

IMO only the Smiths can explain it.