Author Topic: The Smithman e-fits  (Read 104926 times)

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Offline misty

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1170 on: April 07, 2018, 11:38:10 PM »
@Blonk
What do you hope to achieve (for Madeleine) by addressing all those questions to the Met, many of which they will be unable to answer without compromising the current investigation?

Offline sadie

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1171 on: April 08, 2018, 12:35:26 AM »
@Blonk
What do you hope to achieve (for Madeleine) by addressing all those questions to the Met, many of which they will be unable to answer without compromising the current investigation?

 8@??)(

Exactly.  What is it all about Blonk?

What is your agenda?  Are you hoping to help Madeleine, because it doesn't seem like that.

Offline barrier

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1172 on: April 08, 2018, 08:57:58 AM »
8@??)(

Exactly.  What is it all about Blonk?

What is your agenda?  Are you hoping to help Madeleine, because it doesn't seem like that.

I would of thought if as some think that OG is a complete farce then asking those questions is exactly helping Madeleine imo.Whether the answers will be forthcoming is a different matter.
Or even the answers that he would like.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 09:15:11 AM by barrier »
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1173 on: April 08, 2018, 09:57:39 AM »
Whatever Blonk's agenda is, this David Edwards has either let a cat out of a bag or he has made a mistake. It certainly seems strange if Oakley gave the information to the Met in 2008 that Exton claimed to have handed it over in 2011 too.

In my opinion Operation Grange wasn't necessarily set up to help Madeleine. Cameron said he wanted to help her parents, and Rowley said 'our mission here is to do everything reasonable to provide an answer to Kate and Gerry
McCann.' An answer, please note, not the answer. 

I await the Met's answer with interest.
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Offline blonk

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1174 on: April 08, 2018, 10:05:23 AM »
I would [have] thought if, as some think, that OG is a complete farce, then asking those questions is exactly helping Madeleine imo. Whether the answers will be forthcoming is a different matter. Or even the answers that he would like.

Thank you @ 'barrier' for (more or less) answering 'misty's question for me.

As everyone on this forum will be aware, the Metropolitan Police has given two wholly contradictory answers as to when Operation Grange first received these two highly controversial efits:

(a) August 2011 and
(b) September 2008.

This is probably the most infamous 'missing child' case in the history of the world, yet it seems that a police force, allegedly the finest in the world, cannot give us straight and honest answers to the simplest of questions.

Let us recall that these efits were the centerpiece of a Crimewatch programme that took over six months to prepare, cost over £2 million. and was watched by an estimated 7 million viewers. The head honcho on this case, DCI Redwood, said on that programme that these efits were, quote: "The centre of our focus". Now, it seems, they have been quietly discarded.

The public has invested a lot in this case. Thousands have given money, probably totaling millions, to the McCanns to 'find Madeleine'. British taxpayers have shelled out £13 million on this case (Met & Leics police) although I think the real figure is a lot higher. The Portuguese police together with dozens of police forces around the world following up alleged 'sightings' have spent millions more.

'barrier' referred to 'the answers I would like'. All I want is the truth about these efits, given what appears to be a series of evasions about their provenance and when they were passed to various police forces.

Don't forget the public was asked to look for 'Smithman'. At the same time we were asked to believe by the Met that a bloke had just come forward after six years who was the man actually seen by Jane Tanner.

Remarkably, he was walking completely the wrong way from the night crèche, he was carrying his toddler home on a cold early May night at 10pm dressed only in pyjamas, he had actually and very conveniently preserved these pyjamas for six years in a drawer somewhere, and he was wearing, well, exactly the same sort of clothes that Wojcek Krokowski was wearing on his holiday (Krokowski clearly being the 'template' for the 'sightings' of both Jane Tanner and Nuno Lourenco - a device which fooled Goncalo Amaral and his team on Day Two of the investigation (Saturday 5 May) - see Amaral's book).

The Met Police will not release any information that compromises their investigation - the FoI Act clearly allows them to withhold information.

But I do not see that honest answers to these questions can possibly now hinder the investigation:   

On what date, and by whom, were these two efits first drawn up?

On what date or dates did the private investigators release these two efits released and to whom?

On what date (if any) were these efits handed to \Leicestershire Police?

On what date (if any) were these efits handed to the Portuguese Police?

On what date were these efits first supplied to Operation Grange, and by whom?

On what date did Operation Grange first receive these two efits, and from whom?

If the Metropolitan Police first received these efits before Operation Grange was set up, on what date were they received and by which department of the MPS were they received?

The recent MPS Freedom of Information Act reply refers specifically to the ‘final’ version of the private investigators’ report. Therefore, in the interests of clarity, and having regard (a) to the public interest and (b) assurances by both the McCanns and the Met Police that the investigations into Madeleine’s disappearance would be conducted with maximum openness and transparency, please state:
(i) On what date was the ‘final’ private investigators’ report compiled.
(ii) How many interim reports were there before the ‘final report’ and when was each of them compiled?

Has the man in the efits been identified?

If Yes, has he been positively ruled out as Madeleine’s abductor?

If No, is the Met Policer still searching for him?

If No, is the Met Police still searching for someone else as the likely abductor?

The efits still appear on the McCanns’ ‘Find Madeleine’ website despite the MPS ‘no longer using them as part of its appeal’.

Has the MPS advised the McCanns to remove these efits from their website?

If Yes, on what date please.



Will the answers to these questions help Madeleine?

ANSWER: YES. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about ANY aspect of this case will ALWAYS help Madeleine.


         

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1175 on: April 08, 2018, 10:43:52 AM »
I'm aware that some people subscribe to a variety of conspiracy theories, none of which make much sense to me aside from the value of self-publicity.

My (more mundane) take is that "sensitive" is meant in a diplomatic sense - avoiding overt criticism of any particular foreign-led investigation. I'm not sure that I could easily find what Baggott (?) tried to explain in the Leveson inquiry, but at least my recollection was that the need to maintain a level of mutual cooperation extended way beyond the experience of trying to work together on an individual case.

That made sense to me, as I find it logical that there is still a need for cooperation on a number of major criminal investigations with an international dimension (drug rings, pedophiles, human trafficking, potential terrorists...).


Sadly, I don't have a conspiracy theory. I listen, read and  analyse other people theories some are great,some OK and some belong in Hans Christian Andersen book of fairytales.

I have never claimed I know what happened- because I DON'T know.

I agree your explanation that 'sensitve' would include a diplomatic task/s within the  investigation. No toes to be stepped on without being  100%  sure the course taken will show a positive result.  IMO
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1176 on: April 08, 2018, 10:57:23 AM »
8@??)(

Exactly.  What is it all about Blonk?

What is your agenda?  Are you hoping to help Madeleine, because it doesn't seem like that.

Exactly.  What is it all about Blonk?


It is ALL about the met giving wrong details, either deliberately or erroneously, either way it is important as they were asking the public about this smithefit. AND taking money via tax..


What is your agenda?  Are you hoping to help Madeleine, because it doesn't seem like that.


I believe reading Blonk's post he/she has an agenda for the truth. We have to recall the many,many derogatory remarks /statements about Amaral and the PJ being incompetent, now surely you have no issue with SY being called to task if they have made mistakes?

Since you have all the facts and can't share these with us, you will be in a better position to know this.  ^*&&
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline misty

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1177 on: April 08, 2018, 12:55:15 PM »
Thank you @ 'barrier' for (more or less) answering 'misty's question for me.

As everyone on this forum will be aware, the Metropolitan Police has given two wholly contradictory answers as to when Operation Grange first received these two highly controversial efits:

(a) August 2011 and
(b) September 2008.

This is probably the most infamous 'missing child' case in the history of the world, yet it seems that a police force, allegedly the finest in the world, cannot give us straight and honest answers to the simplest of questions.

Let us recall that these efits were the centerpiece of a Crimewatch programme that took over six months to prepare, cost over £2 million. and was watched by an estimated 7 million viewers. The head honcho on this case, DCI Redwood, said on that programme that these efits were, quote: "The centre of our focus".[/b] Now, it seems, they have been quietly discarded.

The public has invested a lot in this case. Thousands have given money, probably totaling millions, to the McCanns to 'find Madeleine'. British taxpayers have shelled out £13 million on this case (Met & Leics police) although I think the real figure is a lot higher. The Portuguese police together with dozens of police forces around the world following up alleged 'sightings' have spent millions more.

'barrier' referred to 'the answers I would like'. All I want is the truth about these efits, given what appears to be a series of evasions about their provenance and when they were passed to various police forces.

Don't forget the public was asked to look for 'Smithman'. At the same time we were asked to believe by the Met that a bloke had just come forward after six years who was the man actually seen by Jane Tanner.

Remarkably, he was walking completely the wrong way from the night crèche, he was carrying his toddler home on a cold early May night at 10pm dressed only in pyjamas, he had actually and very conveniently preserved these pyjamas for six years in a drawer somewhere, and he was wearing, well, exactly the same sort of clothes that Wojcek Krokowski was wearing on his holiday (Krokowski clearly being the 'template' for the 'sightings' of both Jane Tanner and Nuno Lourenco - a device which fooled Goncalo Amaral and his team on Day Two of the investigation (Saturday 5 May) - see Amaral's book).

The Met Police will not release any information that compromises their investigation - the FoI Act clearly allows them to withhold information.

But I do not see that honest answers to these questions can possibly now hinder the investigation:   

On what date, and by whom, were these two efits first drawn up?

On what date or dates did the private investigators release these two efits released and to whom?

On what date (if any) were these efits handed to \Leicestershire Police?

On what date (if any) were these efits handed to the Portuguese Police?

On what date were these efits first supplied to Operation Grange, and by whom?

On what date did Operation Grange first receive these two efits, and from whom?

If the Metropolitan Police first received these efits before Operation Grange was set up, on what date were they received and by which department of the MPS were they received?

The recent MPS Freedom of Information Act reply refers specifically to the ‘final’ version of the private investigators’ report. Therefore, in the interests of clarity, and having regard (a) to the public interest and (b) assurances by both the McCanns and the Met Police that the investigations into Madeleine’s disappearance would be conducted with maximum openness and transparency, please state:
(i) On what date was the ‘final’ private investigators’ report compiled.
(ii) How many interim reports were there before the ‘final report’ and when was each of them compiled?

Has the man in the efits been identified?

If Yes, has he been positively ruled out as Madeleine’s abductor?

If No, is the Met Policer still searching for him?

If No, is the Met Police still searching for someone else as the likely abductor?

The efits still appear on the McCanns’ ‘Find Madeleine’ website despite the MPS ‘no longer using them as part of its appeal’.

Has the MPS advised the McCanns to remove these efits from their website?

If Yes, on what date please.



Will the answers to these questions help Madeleine?

ANSWER: YES. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about ANY aspect of this case will ALWAYS help Madeleine.


         

That's not what DCI Redwood said, though. His exact words were "But very importantly, what it says is that from 9.15, we are able to allow the clock to move forward and in doing so, things that have not been quite as significant or received quite the same degree of attention are now the centre of our focus".

The significance of the Met identifying Crecheman & speaking to him cannot be underestimated, in my opinion. Whatever was disclosed in that conversation was pivotal to the course of the investigation & in all likelihood the reason for the PJ re-opening their own investigation. Had Crecheman been identified as Tannerman (never confirmed by DCI Redwood), then the clock would have been turned back again to the last time Madeleine was seen.

IMO you have chosen to ignore the fundamental point of when the Smiths' efits were first passed to the PJ team & what the PJ did when they received them - which appears to have been absolutely nothing. Why try to undermine the UK powers-that-be by requesting answers from the Met which are, quite frankly, none of our business until the justified expenditure ceases & the investigation concluded?


All IMO.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 02:17:51 PM by misty »

Offline blonk

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1178 on: April 08, 2018, 02:38:09 PM »

That's not what DCI Redwood said, though. His exact words were "But very importantly, what it says is that from 9.15, we are able to allow the clock to move forward and in doing so, things that have not been quite as significant or received quite the same degree of attention are now the centre of our focus".

The significance of the Met identifying Crecheman & speaking to him cannot be underestimated, in my opinion. Whatever was disclosed in that conversation was pivotal to the course of the investigation & in all likelihood the reason for the PJ re-opening their own investigation. Had Crecheman been identified as Tannerman (never confirmed by DCI Redwood), then the clock would have been turned back again to the last time Madeleine was seen.

IMO you have chosen to ignore the fundamental point of when the Smiths' efits were first passed to the PJ team & what the PJ did when they received them - which appears to have been absolutely nothing. Why try to undermine the UK powers-that-be by requesting answers from the Met which are, quite frankly, none of our business until the justified expenditure ceases & the investigation concluded?

All IMO.

"IMO you have chosen to ignore the fundamental point of when the Smiths' efits were first passed to the PJ team ..."
 
REPLY:  On the contrary. That's one of the things I'm trying to find out!  The McCanns stated in a response to the Sunday Times apology that the PJ received them "by October 2009".  That's about as vague as you can get.  Why did the McCanns not give us a date? More to the point, WHO actually supplied these efits to the PJ? Was it the McCanns? Was it the private investigators? Furthermore, we are given to understand that Henri Exton compiled these efits from the Smiths in the spring of 2008. You have to ask: "Why did not the McCanns and their advisers IMMEDIATELY raise merry hell with the PJ, Leics Police or whoever and shout: "This could be the bloke who stole Madeleine. Get these efits into the media NOW!"  Yet we had to wait over five years before being allowed to see them.  Maybe it was actually Operation Grange who handed the efits to the PJ 'by October 2009'.
After all  8(0(* they already had them in September 2008 according to the Information Rights Unit of the Metropolitan Police.


" ... & what the PJ did when they received them - which appears to have been absolutely nothing."

REPLY:  As far as we know, if they did receive them (and we don't know that for sure), maybe they had already ruled out these efits as of no interest. So far as I can see, their only use to man and beast so far has been to be the focal point of a £2million TV show, and to carry on promoting the abduction narrative.

"Why try to undermine the UK powers-that-be by requesting answers from the Met which are, quite frankly, none of our business until the justified expenditure ceases & the investigation concluded?"

REPLY:  Please explain in what possible way asking proper questions about the provenance, history and use of these two mysterious efits can possibly undermine this investigation? 
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 11:48:45 PM by Brietta »

Offline jassi

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1179 on: April 08, 2018, 02:42:42 PM »
It would be interesting to know what documentation if any accompanied these efits
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1180 on: April 08, 2018, 02:56:04 PM »
That's not what DCI Redwood said, though. His exact words were "But very importantly, what it says is that from 9.15, we are able to allow the clock to move forward and in doing so, things that have not been quite as significant or received quite the same degree of attention are now the centre of our focus".

The significance of the Met identifying Crecheman & speaking to him cannot be underestimated, in my opinion. Whatever was disclosed in that conversation was pivotal to the course of the investigation & in all likelihood the reason for the PJ re-opening their own investigation. Had Crecheman been identified as Tannerman (never confirmed by DCI Redwood), then the clock would have been turned back again to the last time Madeleine was seen.

IMO you have chosen to ignore the fundamental point of when the Smiths' efits were first passed to the PJ team & what the PJ did when they received them - which appears to have been absolutely nothing. Why try to undermine the UK powers-that-be by requesting answers from the Met which are, quite frankly, none of our business until the justified expenditure ceases & the investigation concluded?


All IMO.

It may appear that the PJ did nothing, but it's not necessarily correct. Perhaps they asked OG to publicise them, promising to reopen their investigation in return?

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Offline jassi

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1181 on: April 08, 2018, 03:03:06 PM »
What mechanism would the PJ have for publishing the pics as the case was closed?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1182 on: April 08, 2018, 06:33:15 PM »
@Blonk
What do you hope to achieve (for Madeleine) by addressing all those questions to the Met, many of which they will be unable to answer without compromising the current investigation?
Beyond satisfying curiosity I really can't see any real point to the exercise, and certainly nothing that will benefit the investigation.  It will however cost the taxpayer more money to furnish the (non) answers this letter is likely to receive.  Still, it helps pass the time I guess.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1183 on: April 08, 2018, 06:35:10 PM »
I would of thought if as some think that OG is a complete farce then asking those questions is exactly helping Madeleine imo.Whether the answers will be forthcoming is a different matter.
Or even the answers that he would like.
Perhaps you could explain exactly how answering those questions even with complet full and honest disclosure would help Madeleine?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #1184 on: April 08, 2018, 07:28:18 PM »
@Blonk
What do you hope to achieve (for Madeleine) by addressing all those questions to the Met, many of which they will be unable to answer without compromising the current investigation?


At a rough guess the same as all those other [insert suitable adjective here] folk who compile dossiers and send in FOI requests relating to this case, in the naive belief they are "making a difference".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey