Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence

[faithlilly]

The DNA sample was incomplete. Was it actually Gerry's?

A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)).

Let’s see. Either the cards got muddled and the card that was sent to the FSS was not used by Gerry but the DNA taken from it just happened to match the corresponding DNA components of his or it was Gerry’s. What do you think are the chances of the former ?

Anyway back to the point. Neither you nor Carana have been able to prove that Eddie alerts to only the residual smell of blood. Keela didn’t alert to blood in the bedroom of 5a, Eddie did therefore he must have been alerting to cadaver scent

[misty]

A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)).

Let’s see. Either the cards got muddled and the card that was sent to the FSS was not used by Gerry but the DNA taken from it just happened to match the corresponding DNA components of his or it was Gerry’s. What do you think are the chances of the former ?

Anyway back to the point. Neither you nor Carana have been able to prove that Eddie alerts to only the residual smell of blood. Keela didn’t alert to blood in the bedroom of 5a, Eddie did therefore he must have been alerting to cadaver scent

We go round & round in circles. Was Eddie ever trained to alert to remnant scent of a HUMAN cadaver under 5 hours old - given that the odour of decomposition changes as a cadaver goes through various phases?

[faithlilly]

We go round & round in circles. Was Eddie ever trained to alert to remnant scent of a HUMAN cadaver under 5 hours old - given that the odour of decomposition changes as a cadaver goes through various phases?

We are talking about whether Eddie alerts to just the residual scent from blood. Have you any proof that he does ?

[misty]

We are talking about whether Eddie alerts to just the residual scent from blood. Have you any proof that he does ?

As decomposing blood is an integral part of a complete human cadaver, how do you separate the scent to know whether he would alert to a  pool of blood from a leaking fresh cadaver which had been forensically cleaned up?

[faithlilly]

As decomposing blood is an integral part of a complete human cadaver, how do you separate the scent to know whether he would alert to a  pool of blood from a leaking fresh cadaver which had been forensically cleaned up?

Forensically cleaned ? In a holiday apartment?

If Eddie was alerting to the scent of decomposing blood from a cadaver then a cadaver would have to have been in the room, surely ?

Eddie alerts to blood from a living person, so does Keela. Keela didn’t alert, so Eddie’s alert couldn’t have been to blood from a living person.

[misty]

Forensically cleaned ? In a holiday apartment?

If Eddie was alerting to the scent of decomposing blood from a cadaver then a cadaver would have to have been in the room, surely ?

Eddie alerts to blood from a living person, so does Keela. Keela didn’t alert, so Eddie’s alert couldn’t have been to blood from a living person.

When Eddie alerted to the car key, there was a car door between him & the key. Is it therefore possible there was a bed between Eddie & the source of the blood in 5A bedroom?

[Robittybob1]

Forensically cleaned ? In a holiday apartment?

If Eddie was alerting to the scent of decomposing blood from a cadaver then a cadaver would have to have been in the room, surely ?

Eddie alerts to blood from a living person, so does Keela. Keela didn’t alert, so Eddie’s alert couldn’t have been to blood from a living person.

"Eddie alerts to blood from a living person" where does this come from?

[misty]

"Eddie alerts to blood from a living person" where does this come from?

Both dogs alerted to dried blood from a living human - emphasis on dried.

[faithlilly]

When Eddie alerted to the car key, there was a car door between him & the key. Is it therefore possible there was a bed between Eddie & the source of the blood in 5A bedroom?

Not sure what you mean Misty. There was no blood as Keela had already searched the property and didn’t alert in the bedroom.

[misty]

Not sure what you mean Misty. There was no blood as Keela had already searched the property and didn’t alert in the bedroom.

Keela only alerts with her nose at the source of the scent. What happens when that source is hidden by a bed or a wardrobe fitment?

[faithlilly]

Keela only alerts with her nose at the source of the scent. What happens when that source is hidden by a bed or a wardrobe fitment?

Eddie finds blood from a living person the same way as Keela does so surely if Eddie could smell it so could Keela ?

[misty]

Eddie finds blood from a living person the same way as Keela does so surely if Eddie could smell it so could Keela ?

Eddie didn't alert to whatever Keela found in the boot of the Scenic, although there was a door between the  source & the dog, same as with the key. It took Keela quite a while to pinpoint the exact source but only because she was given access to the boot. How would Keela alert to an area she didn't have access to (e.g. under a bed, under a wardrobe floor), where a source may be present?

[Robittybob1]

Eddie finds blood from a living person the same way as Keela does so surely if Eddie could smell it so could Keela ?

IMO you would have no idea of the decision making process a dog would have to go through.

[Alice Purjorick]

IMO you would have no idea of the decision making process a dog would have to go through.

That would appear to be one step of anthropomorphism  too far !

[G-Unit]

According to the opening post, the purpose of this thread was to discuss what Martin Grime's evidence meant and if it had been misunderstood.

A lot of opinions were posted, mostly by posters who support the parents. They seem to have misunderstood the aim of the thread and haven't really addressed the question posed in the first post.

A good post in my opinion;

"To claim the alerts were to cadaver odour is factually incorrect...it has not been possible  and is impossible to determine what the alerts were to...poeple have opinions...and that is all they are... To claim the alerts may have been to cadaver odour of course is correct" post #52

The above post is good because the expert who trained and used the dogs shared his opinion which has more credibility than others' because of his experience and knowledge. He said;

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

So we have an expert opinion. Grime goes on to say;

This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Some people seem to think that he's referring to forensic confirmation, but that's clearly wrong, because cadaver scent can't be confirmed by forensic tests.

So 'corroborating evidence' means something else.

Corroborating evidence (or corroboration) is evidence that supports a proposition already supported by initial evidence, therefore confirming the original proposition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corroborating_evidence

So Eddie's unconfirmed alerts were;

G5A
Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by the door. 
Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.

McCann villa
a pink cuddly toy in the villas lounge
Mother and child clothing (after removal)

Given that Grime's opinion was that these alerts were triggered by cadaver scent, and that the alerts seemed to be suggesting a connection between the site of the missing child's disappearance, her toy, her clothes and her mother's clothes, there had to be an attempt to find corroborating evidence in my opinion.

The PJ tried but failed.