Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence

[Carana]

It seems the only explanations people seem to be able to think of is;

a) suggest foul play
b) suggest incompetence

It might turn out that Eddie was correct and did indeed alert to her brief post-mortem presence months later. At whose hands would still remain to be seen. An accident followed by an implausible cover-up by the parents, friends and half of the universe? A weirdo who got in, caused her death and removed her?

Even if that's potentially possible, after nearly 11 years of zilch physical or forensic evidence, what other options seem feasible?

"Incompetence" might not be be right term, but there all kinds of questions related to what has been ruled out as potential explanations - including interviewing post-disappearance occupants, what exactly Grime meant by "items he's trained to find" are... the questions go on.

[misty]

What has that to do with the fact that the cadaver dog only reacted to McCann-related objects?  Noticeably, Eddie spent hours going through the Murat's property and not even a squeak... explain that if .....

Eddie did not get the opportunity to inspect Murat's hire car, the Hyundai Getz, despite the car being on the warrant list.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P8/08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2030.jpg

[G-Unit]

It might turn out that Eddie was correct and did indeed alert to her brief post-mortem presence months later. At whose hands would still remain to be seen. An accident followed by an implausible cover-up by the parents, friends and half of the universe? A weirdo who got in, caused her death and removed her?

Even if that's potentially possible, after nearly 11 years of zilch physical or forensic evidence, what other options seem feasible?

"Incompetence" might not be be right term, but there all kinds of questions related to what has been ruled out as potential explanations - including interviewing post-disappearance occupants, what exactly Grime meant by "items he's trained to find" are... the questions go on.

I acknowledge that it's difficult to explain what might have happened if Eddie was right. That's no excuse, in my opinion, for casting aspersions on the integrity or job skills of the investigators.

[Carana]

I acknowledge that it's difficult to explain what might have happened if Eddie was right. That's no excuse, in my opinion, for casting aspersions on the integrity or job skills of the investigators.

I haven't used the word "incompetence", AFAIK.

However, I'm not sure what other term could cover failing to explore a variety of potentially innocent / irrelevant explanations.

To be fair, they didn't have any experience with such dogs... whereas police forces with such experience would presumably have a better idea of limitations.

If ever there was a "misunderstanding" over their abilities, potential for error, substances within their training parameters, etc., then they wouln't necessarily feel the need to explore irrelevant alternative explanations.

At the same time, this was arguably Grime's first solo venture. There is also the pro-PJ build-up in the media, which must have been a double-edged sword, IMO.

According to the hype, the brilliant PJ team led by Amaral was about to close in... how could it then back down? The Portuguese social researcher Helena Machado has written some interesting papers on the subect.

And that's more or less my conclusion over the Jersey fiasco and a few others I can think of.

[Carana]

I acknowledge that it's difficult to explain what might have happened if Eddie was right. That's no excuse, in my opinion, for casting aspersions on the integrity or job skills of the investigators.

The only other missing child case that Amaral & co had ever investigated (if one can call it that), to my knowledge was the one that musn't be named on here.... So I'm not sure which "job skills" may apply.

[G-Unit]

The dogs were brought in on the advice of the NPIA's National Search Adviser. The dog's handler was the leading UK expert on training, handling and deploying search dogs. They organised, directed and carried out the searches, not the PJ. Any criticisms, therefore, are criticisms of the best the UK had to offer in my opinion.

[Mr Gray]

The dogs were brought in on the advice of the NPIA's National Search Adviser. The dog's handler was the leading UK expert on training, handling and deploying search dogs. They organised, directed and carried out the searches, not the PJ. Any criticisms, therefore, are criticisms of the best the UK had to offer in my opinion.

The NPIA serach adviser was Mark Harrison...who said...no inferences can be drawn from the alerts...what you miss is why the dogs are used...they are used to find evidence...its all there in grimes statements

[Alice Purjorick]

The dogs were brought in on the advice of the NPIA's National Search Adviser. The dog's handler was the leading UK expert on training, handling and deploying search dogs. They organised, directed and carried out the searches, not the PJ. Any criticisms, therefore, are criticisms of the best the UK had to offer in my opinion.

Maybe the British cops sicced the dawgs and handler onto the PJ for their nuisance value ?
Think of the chaos had they not sent the best.

[Robittybob1]

I haven't used the word "incompetence", AFAIK.

However, I'm not sure what other term could cover failing to explore a variety of potentially innocent / irrelevant explanations.

To be fair, they didn't have any experience with such dogs... whereas police forces with such experience would presumably have a better idea of limitations.

If ever there was a "misunderstanding" over their abilities, potential for error, substances within their training parameters, etc., then they wouln't necessarily feel the need to explore irrelevant alternative explanations.

At the same time, this was arguably Grime's first solo venture. There is also the pro-PJ build-up in the media, which must have been a double-edged sword, IMO.

According to the hype, the brilliant PJ team led by Amaral was about to close in... how could it then back down? The Portuguese social researcher Helena Machado has written some interesting papers on the subect.

And that's more or less my conclusion over the Jersey fiasco and a few others I can think of.

I can see how they might have focused on what appears to be the most likely explanation of the cadaver odour, that it being due to Madeleine's death.

But if we accept Gerry's explanation that Madeleine was alive at 9:05 PM and laying on top of the covers who removed her from her bed?  If she had been lying there long enough why was there no cadaver alert to the bed covers?
If the PJ didn't believe Gerry at all, why were the arguido questions directed stronger at Kate rather than to Gerry?  OK maybe they thought Kate will crack first. (Both were arguidos but were the PJ playing "bad cop good cop" across the parents?)

Has anyone worked out a comprehensive theory that includes cadaver odour coming from a deceased Madeleine?  I struggle to remember one.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I can see how they might have focused on what appears to be the most likely explanation of the cadaver odour, that it being due to Madeleine's death.

But if we accept Gerry's explanation that Madeleine was alive at 9:05 PM and laying on top of the covers who removed her from her bed?  If she had been lying there long enough why was there no cadaver alert to the bed covers?
If the PJ didn't believe Gerry at all, why were the arguido questions directed stronger at Kate rather than to Gerry?  OK maybe they thought Kate will crack first. (Both were arguidos but were the PJ playing "bad cop good cop" across the parents?)

Has anyone worked out a comprehensive theory that includes cadaver odour coming from a deceased Madeleine?  I struggle to remember one.

Well she would have had to have died at or before the time the McCanns left the appartment so any such theory would not be permitted to be discussed on this forum IMO.

[Robittybob1]

Well she would have had to have died at or before the time the McCanns left the appartment so any such theory would not be permitted to be discussed on this forum IMO.

The whole point of the thread http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9252.0 "Latest theory lands on Portuguese AG's desk"  is based on a theory of an earlier death. 
I seem to recall GA proposing that Madeleine fell off the sofa after hearing Gerry and Jez talking outside the apartment, so that is late in the day 9:10 or after if she died instantly. 
Gosh - what and who was first aware of that?  He seems to put up little partial theories with no real follow on.  I'd imagine if Madeleine fell and died the next person in the room would have noticed this.

Gruesome as it is, I've seen situations where animals have been concussed even with an approved captive bolt and they continued to breath at a slow rate.  I think you would be hard pressed to find a situation where someone actually dies instantly from a fall off a sofa, even onto a stone floor. You might be knocked out but it would be unusual to die immediately.

[Robittybob1]

This used to be a decent forum.....when you joined I thought you were actually winding people up with your ridiculous ideas...but it seems you are actually serious... I  think at one time you were quite intelligent  but now havw some severe mental problems and I have sympathy for you...but you have been made a moderator....Im sorry but the phrase...the lunatics have taken over the asylum springs to mind...you may wish to edit my post...feel free

I appreciate that everyone is allowed to have an opinion.  If you think what I say is so terrible, you being the high IQ one, should be able to muster a better argument rather than just resorting to ridicule.  Have a go, give me a reason why Madeleine's disappearance is not related to some variant of a replacement child theory. 

Kate's wish is that this is the case, where Madeleine has been taken to be looked after by another loving caring couple.  It is extremely rare but it is the best option of them all.
In fact it is the only humane option left really.  The thought of her being in some sex slave ring is beyond imagination.

[Mr Gray]

I appreciate that everyone is allowed to have an opinion.  If you think what I say is so terrible, you being the high IQ one, should be able to muster a better argument rather than just resorting to ridicule.  Have a go, give me a reason why Madeleine's disappearance is not related to some variant of a replacement child theory. 

Kate's wish is that this is the case, where Madeleine has been taken to be looked after by another loving caring couple.  It is extremely rare but it is the best option of them all.

im not saying what you are saying is terrible and I am not resorting to ridicule...Im stating the facts as I see them.....what about the other dead child you mention ...in the blue bag...the one taht isnt maddie..
maddie may well have been taken as a replacemnet child...but why all the accusations of multiple people giving maddie calpol...thats barmy

[misty]

Here's an odd story of a replacement child, Rob.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/the-mystery-of-nicholas-barclay

[Robittybob1]

im not saying what you are saying is terrible and I am not resorting to ridicule...Im stating the facts as I see them.....what about the other dead child you mention ...in the blue bag...the one taht isnt maddie..
maddie may well have been taken as a replacemnet child...but why all the accusations of multiple people giving maddie calpol...thats barmy

I am not actually accusing anyone if you read it carefully.  I'm saying how can you rule it out?  I know it has happened before when drugs are administered by different people and the combined dosage is what does the damage.