A Question Regarding Forensics.

[pathfinder73]

Thu 22 Feb 2007

Forensic lab errors in hundreds of crime cases

Over a five-year period, the Forensic Science Service (FSS) failed to detect tiny samples of DNA in 2,500 cases involving murders, rapes and serious assaults. Senior officers believe that in many of those cases DNA samples could have been found and matched to suspects, had the FSS used different techniques that were being used by other privately run laboratories.

They are furious at the failings and have demanded an explanation from the FSS.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/feb/22/topstories3.ukcrime

[Carana]

Peter Hyatt does a similar technique.  I suppose it could be sufficient to get a guilty person to confess at times.  At least it isn't being nasty.  I take my hat off to anyone who can do that  consistently.

I don't know enough about his academic and professional record to comment on that.

I've come across numerous "experts" or pundits who actually aren't experts, and a few with qualifications and / or some experience, but clearly hadn't followed the case. Many appear to have jumped on the latest lucrative bandwagon, so hard to tell.

[Carana]

Thu 22 Feb 2007

Forensic lab errors in hundreds of crime cases

Over a five-year period, the Forensic Science Service (FSS) failed to detect tiny samples of DNA in 2,500 cases involving murders, rapes and serious assaults. Senior officers believe that in many of those cases DNA samples could have been found and matched to suspects, had the FSS used different techniques that were being used by other privately run laboratories.

They are furious at the failings and have demanded an explanation from the FSS.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/feb/22/topstories3.ukcrime

Kathy Lee, a spokeswoman for the FSS, said scientists estimated that of the 2,500 cases that needed retesting, around 200 were likely to provide a positive match with a suspect. But she admitted this was just a guess. She said the errors had occurred because the rapid advances in technology meant DNA could now be found on tiny residues. "This happened when LCN was in its infancy," she said.


Yes, and LCN was suspended for a time. If Kate's account is accurate, why the PJ considered LCN to be the "gold standard" is beyond me.

The boot bits were reexamined by the INML (which didn't have LCN capacity). The only oddity was that a male profile was found that the FSS hadn't. Contamination upon shipping back?

Whoever that male profile belonged to, it wasn't Gerry...

[faithlilly]

Kathy Lee, a spokeswoman for the FSS, said scientists estimated that of the 2,500 cases that needed retesting, around 200 were likely to provide a positive match with a suspect. But she admitted this was just a guess. She said the errors had occurred because the rapid advances in technology meant DNA could now be found on tiny residues. "This happened when LCN was in its infancy," she said.


Yes, and LCN was suspended for a time. If Kate's account is accurate, why the PJ considered LCN to be the "gold standard" is beyond me.

The boot bits were reexamined by the INML (which didn't have LCN capacity). The only oddity was that a male profile was found that the FSS hadn't. Contamination upon shipping back?

Whoever that male profile belonged to, it wasn't Gerry...

I seem to remember that Edgar bemoaned the fact that LCN wasn’t used on the forensics from 5a. He seemed to believe it was the gold standard too.

[Alice Purjorick]

If all this is so hot why are there a lot of miscarriages of justice attributable to inaccurate  forensics and erroneous testimony from "expert" witnesses?

[Carana]

I seem to remember that Edgar bemoaned the fact that LCN wasn’t used on the forensics from 5a. He seemed to believe it was the gold standard too.

Did he? I don't recall that. Where did you read that?

[faithlilly]

Did he? I don't recall that. Where did you read that?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/dna-test-could-find-kidnapper-28507607.html

[Carana]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/dna-test-could-find-kidnapper-28507607.html

Ok, thanks for that. No quote from him directly related to 5A. What was he actually asked?

[faithlilly]

Ok, thanks for that. No quote from him directly related to 5A. What was he actually asked?

This seems pretty direct “Dave said: “It’s an amazingly powerful tool, so it’s a real shame we will never get to use it with Maddie”.

He certainly seemed to believe it was the gold standard too though not that it had already been used.

[Carana]

This seems pretty direct “Dave said: “It’s an amazingly powerful tool, so it’s a real shame we will never get to use it with Maddie”.

He certainly seemed to believe it was the gold standard too though not that it had already been used.

As it's not clear what the question asked actually was, I find it hard to work out what he may have been referring to.

And LCN was used for some samples, so I really have no idea what the specific topic was about.

[faithlilly]

As it's not clear what the question asked actually was, I find it hard to work out what he may have been referring to.

And LCN was used for some samples, so I really have no idea what the specific topic was about.

You asked for evidence that Edgar thought LCN was the gold strand adr of forensic techniques, I gave it, what are you finding so difficult to understand Carana ?

[Mr Gray]

This seems pretty direct “Dave said: “It’s an amazingly powerful tool, so it’s a real shame we will never get to use it with Maddie”.

He certainly seemed to believe it was the gold standard too though not that it had already been used.

LCN is not the gold standard it's a technique of last resort when nothing else is possible... And it was developed by the FSS and other labs are now copying their tecnique

[Carana]

You asked for evidence that Edgar thought LCN was the gold strand adr of forensic techniques, I gave it, what are you finding so difficult to understand Carana ?

An "amazingly powerful tool" doesn't necesarily equate to the "gold standard", when there is no specific indication as to what he was referring to in particular.

LCN could, indeed, be helpful, but the process involved required a total absence of contamination, and even then may have shown irrelevant results, then subject to interpretation.

A bit of a waffly article, IMO.

[faithlilly]

An "amazingly powerful tool" doesn't necesarily equate to the "gold standard", when there is no specific indication as to what he was referring to in particular.

LCN could, indeed, be helpful, but the process involved required a total absence of contamination, and even then may have shown irrelevant results, then subject to interpretation.

A bit of a waffly article, IMO.

Perhaps the LCN results was in the section of the files that Edgar wasn’t privy to. That would certainly explain this article.

[Carana]

Perhaps the LCN results was in the section of the files that Edgar wasn’t privy to. That would certainly explain this article.

In an article in 2009?

Without the context of the "interview", assuming there was one, I have no idea what was being discussed beyond the broad topic of LCN.