Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.  (Read 33357 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2017, 07:23:32 PM »
The graze might have been done anytime that day or days before, and nothing to do with the murders.

Ditto for the hole in the nightdress, if it was a cigarette/cigarette ash burn.

If connected with either of the two bullets fired at her neck, then the hole could be from a red-hot casing which dropped onto her nightie, before rolling onto the floor when the rifle was arranged to make it appear she commited suicide. Or from bits of burning propellant which dropped out of said casing.

I agree the graze wound and damage to the nightdress might be completely unrelated but these issues don't appear to have been investigated.  I can't ever recall having a graze wound to my abdomen or holes and black marks/burns to a nightdress so to my mind they seem unusual but I've never smoked so maybe these things happen to smokers?  Caroline was at one time a smoker she might know?

Your scenario might be a possibility.  Does the casing ejection port, or that area of the rifle, get hot? 

Another possibility is bullet DRH/5 intended for June ricocheted back and hit SC.   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2017, 07:37:38 PM »
During the kitchen struggle, Nevill's position probably remained closer to the sink, well away from where most of the shattered lightshade and pottery landed on the floor near to the table and kitchen/main hall doorway, so less likely that his soles would sustain cuts or grazes. If Sheila was the killer, she must have walked through this debris-strewn area to get back upstairs... but her soles were clean and undamaged.

I thought the "violent struggle" took place near the Aga hence the scratch marks and paint from mantle on the silencer? 

I can't find any evidence from the raid team about broken glass just broken crockery.  Although other docs refer to a broken lampshade.  There's no evidence that the perps exit from the kitchen was debris-strewn to the extent anyone barefooted would sustain injuries.  If any debris attached then it might well have detached en route upstairs.  As Geoffrey Rivlin said at trial there was a lot of carpet from the kitchen to SC's resting place.  Are there any close up pics of the broken crockery or is it restricted to the broken butt?

No evidence of injury to Crispy's paws or bloody paw prints.

The bride appears to be dancing barefooted during a bit of plate smashing but she might be wearing flip flops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJQ6pk0eJ8A
 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2017, 08:20:49 PM »
I agree the graze wound and damage to the nightdress might be completely unrelated but these issues don't appear to have been investigated.  I can't ever recall having a graze wound to my abdomen or holes and black marks/burns to a nightdress so to my mind they seem unusual but I've never smoked so maybe these things happen to smokers?  Caroline was at one time a smoker she might know?

Your scenario might be a possibility.  Does the casing ejection port, or that area of the rifle, get hot? 

Another possibility is bullet DRH/5 intended for June ricocheted back and hit SC.

I would think the port does get hot, because that's the region where propellant is ignited, burned and hot smoke & gas exhausted. Some burning remnants of powder from a casing which dropped on her nightie when she was shot might have caused the two holes.

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2017, 08:55:24 PM »
I thought the "violent struggle" took place near the Aga hence the scratch marks and paint from mantle on the silencer? 

I can't find any evidence from the raid team about broken glass just broken crockery.  Although other docs refer to a broken lampshade.  There's no evidence that the perps exit from the kitchen was debris-strewn to the extent anyone barefooted would sustain injuries.  If any debris attached then it might well have detached en route upstairs.  As Geoffrey Rivlin said at trial there was a lot of carpet from the kitchen to SC's resting place.  Are there any close up pics of the broken crockery or is it restricted to the broken butt?

No evidence of injury to Crispy's paws or bloody paw prints.

The bride appears to be dancing barefooted during a bit of plate smashing but she might be wearing flip flops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJQ6pk0eJ8A

What I meant was that the struggle took place in half of the room nearest to the window, with the table being shoved towards the Welsh Dresser when they were wrestling for control of the rifle, which also caught the lampshade overhead and mantleshelf underneath. Most of the translucent glass from the shade and broken crockery landed near the doors to the main hall and dairy, away from where the action occurred, so more chance for anyone walking through it to collect debris on and/or damage their feet.

There's no evidence of a Big Fat Greek plate-smashing wedding taking place in the kitchen either.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2017, 06:00:59 PM »
I would think the port does get hot, because that's the region where propellant is ignited, burned and hot smoke & gas exhausted. Some burning remnants of powder from a casing which dropped on her nightie when she was shot might have caused the two holes.

But although this might be an explanation for the burns and black mark this doesn't determine anything in terms of JB or SC as the fallout would be the same whether JB shot SC or SC shot herself? 

Seems odd we hear so little about the damage to SC's nightdress and the graze wound. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2017, 06:16:25 PM »
What I meant was that the struggle took place in half of the room nearest to the window, with the table being shoved towards the Welsh Dresser when they were wrestling for control of the rifle, which also caught the lampshade overhead and mantleshelf underneath. Most of the translucent glass from the shade and broken crockery landed near the doors to the main hall and dairy, away from where the action occurred, so more chance for anyone walking through it to collect debris on and/or damage their feet.

There's no evidence of a Big Fat Greek plate-smashing wedding taking place in the kitchen either.

I've only ever heard the lampshade referred to as broken nothing about how many pieces and debris on the floor.   There's more evidence about broken crockery eg raid team make mention of but the soc image seems to show a clear path out of the kitchen albeit the exit/entrance is slightly out of view.

There's a clear soc image of broken piece of butt but afaik nothing for the broken crockery?   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.

Offline starryian

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2017, 03:18:35 PM »
Thanks for your support everyone. Great analysis JoJo. Succinct accurate and straight on point. Some truly excellent analysis of what is an often perplexing case.
Can I just clear something up for the record here? I am definitely NOT steve_UK I find it almost laughable that we were even compared solely because he both believed in Bamber's guilt. I have hopefully ended that puzzling speculation put forward by one or two Bamber supporters
I have been absent from the forum for family reasons but I can hopefully pop in from time to time and read the insightful and knowledgable views of the members here. It is heartwarming to read the intuitive views of some of the members when addressing myself. You were absolutely spot on. This is the same intuition and insight you have displayed in your comments about the Bamber case, which, I believe are equally spot on.
Great to be back  8((()*/
Starryian..

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2017, 06:23:11 AM »
Thanks for your support everyone. Great analysis JoJo. Succinct accurate and straight on point. Some truly excellent analysis of what is an often perplexing case.
Can I just clear something up for the record here? I am definitely NOT steve_UK I find it almost laughable that we were even compared solely because he both believed in Bamber's guilt. I have hopefully ended that puzzling speculation put forward by one or two Bamber supporters
I have been absent from the forum for family reasons but I can hopefully pop in from time to time and read the insightful and knowledgable views of the members here. It is heartwarming to read the intuitive views of some of the members when addressing myself. You were absolutely spot on. This is the same intuition and insight you have displayed in your comments about the Bamber case, which, I believe are equally spot on.
Great to be back  8((()*/

Hello Ian... you still debunking all the other inane comments on YouTube Bamber documentaries? You know, the ones who think Bamber is innocent because they don't like David Boutflour's laugh or his hairstyle?

Holly Goheavily and Delilah's nemesis have yet to be convinced, but it seems the only thing that'll move them is a deathbed confession, which like Brady, will probably never happen.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2017, 07:54:12 AM »
Thanks for your support everyone. Great analysis JoJo. Succinct accurate and straight on point. Some truly excellent analysis of what is an often perplexing case.
Can I just clear something up for the record here? I am definitely NOT steve_UK I find it almost laughable that we were even compared solely because he both believed in Bamber's guilt. I have hopefully ended that puzzling speculation put forward by one or two Bamber supporters
I have been absent from the forum for family reasons but I can hopefully pop in from time to time and read the insightful and knowledgable views of the members here. It is heartwarming to read the intuitive views of some of the members when addressing myself. You were absolutely spot on. This is the same intuition and insight you have displayed in your comments about the Bamber case, which, I believe are equally spot on.
Great to be back  8((()*/

Hi Starryian

I don't think we've exchanged posts in the past but look forward to doing so when you pop in. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2017, 07:59:58 AM »
Hello Ian... you still debunking all the other inane comments on YouTube Bamber documentaries? You know, the ones who think Bamber is innocent because they don't like David Boutflour's laugh or his hairstyle?

Holly Goheavily and Delilah's nemesis have yet to be convinced, but it seems the only thing that'll move them is a deathbed confession, which like Brady, will probably never happen.

Blimey what about all the guilters who place a lot of credence on JB's behaviour pre and post tragedy? 

Huh Goheavily, initially I thought you had missed a comma out and were referring to David1819  8(8-))  

Brady confessed to his crimes during his lifetime.  He was unable or unwilling to identify the location where he murdered Keith Bennett.  



Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2017, 08:07:51 AM »
Blimey what about all the guilters who place a lot of credence on JB's behaviour pre and post tragedy? 

Huh Goheavily, initially I thought you had missed a comma out and were referring to David1819  8(8-)) 

Brady confessed to his crimes during his lifetime.  He was unable or unwilling to identify the location where he murdered Keith Bennett. 

That's what I meant!... god, your finicky.   Right... must dash, for the second and last time.

Offline steve_trousers

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2017, 08:44:58 PM »
Blimey what about all the guilters who place a lot of credence on JB's behaviour pre and post tragedy? 

Huh Goheavily, initially I thought you had missed a comma out and were referring to David1819  8(8-)) 

Brady confessed to his crimes during his lifetime.  He was unable or unwilling to identify the location where he murdered Keith Bennett. 

I'm with you on this one Holly, I don't think his behaviour before and after the murders is necessarily a strong indicator of his guilt. Except for perhaps the Osea caravan park incident, which does tell us that right/wrong meant nothing to him.

However, the veritable mountain of forensic, physical and circumstantial evidence proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the right person is behind bars.

His parents gave him everything a young man could wish for in life, a stable and loving family, a job, nice car, good education, shares in their company, extended trips abroad and so on. And how did he repay them ? he repaid them by sneaking into their home in the middle of their night and murdering them all. Just so he could acquire what was theirs. For their money.


Offline adam

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2017, 09:09:34 PM »
The things he spent a month doing & places he went to,  straight after the massacre, all cost money.

Or he was trying to make money by selling things, getting things valued or discussing future finances with Basil Cock.

He certainly stopped farming.

Offline APRIL

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2017, 09:27:50 PM »
I'm with you on this one Holly, I don't think his behaviour before and after the murders is necessarily a strong indicator of his guilt. Except for perhaps the Osea caravan park incident, which does tell us that right/wrong meant nothing to him.

However, the veritable mountain of forensic, physical and circumstantial evidence proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the right person is behind bars.

His parents gave him everything a young man could wish for in life, a stable and loving family, a job, nice car, good education, shares in their company, extended trips abroad and so on. And how did he repay them ? he repaid them by sneaking into their home in the middle of their night and murdering them all. Just so he could acquire what was theirs. For their money.

Please forgive me if I tire of hearing that he was given everything "a young man could wish for in life". HE is the only one who could vouch for that. HE is the only one who knows whether or not he FELT loved. All those things you list as being given him, MAY have resulted in him feeling that he'd accrued a debt, which because of the interest, was impossible to repay. He MAY have felt like a necessary commodity, bought in for the sole reason of carrying on the family business (in which he had little interest), rather than a loved son. None of which condones or exonerates him from committing murder.

Offline steve_trousers

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Crime, Hearts and Coronets.
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2017, 07:32:45 PM »
Please forgive me if I tire of hearing that he was given everything "a young man could wish for in life". HE is the only one who could vouch for that. HE is the only one who knows whether or not he FELT loved. All those things you list as being given him, MAY have resulted in him feeling that he'd accrued a debt, which because of the interest, was impossible to repay. He MAY have felt like a necessary commodity, bought in for the sole reason of carrying on the family business (in which he had little interest), rather than a loved son. None of which condones or exonerates him from committing murder.

Fair point, I understand and accept the valid point you have made. Personally, I see it differently as anyone with capacity for that basic human emotion of empathy can vouch for the fortunate start he had in life, including myself who also benefited from a luckier start than most. And we know what to call that individual who, like Bamber, is incapable of any empathy at all for others.

In agreement with your last sentence, If he had felt as strongly as you suggest there are other ways of protesting to his family.