Author Topic: Adam's List Of Forensic Evidence Which He Believes Supports JB As Perp  (Read 245 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Adam's List:

1. Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA

2. One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA

3. Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.

4. Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.

5. No broken nails - Not disputed COA.

6. Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.

7. No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.

8. No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

9. No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

10. No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

11. Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE, BAMBER.

12. No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.

13. No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA

14. Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.

15. Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.

16. Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - BAMBER

17. No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.

18. No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.

19. Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

20. No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

21. No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

22. No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.

23. No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.

24. Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - FORUM.

25. Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - ACCEPTED FACT.

26. Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.

27. Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.

28. Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.

29. Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.

30. Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES. .

31. Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

32. Blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

33. No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

34. Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.

35. Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.

36. A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.

37. Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE.

38. Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA.

39. Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE.

40. Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.

41. Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER.

42. Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - 20 SOURCES IN THE LIBRARY.

43. No better massacre weapon options for Bamber - Not disputed - FORUM.

44. Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell - Not disputed after Bamber hired him - WILKES'S BOOK.

45. Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

46. Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS.

47. June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA.

48. Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion burns were caused minus silencer rejected - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME.

49. 2012 CCRC court judgement - judicial review request made & rejected - JUDICIAL REVIEW DOCUMENT.

50. The twins not waking - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

51. Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

52. Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COURT OF APPEAL.

53. Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE STATEMENTS.

54. No valid Sheila scenario - Not disputed - OS & FORUM.

55. Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - BAMBER.

56. Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER.

57. Bamber asking the police to pick him up - Not disputed - WILKES, CRIMES, HEARTS & CORONETS.

58. Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - BAMBER.

59. Ease for a man to lift & carry a woman - Not disputed. YOUTUBE VIDEO.

60. Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA. 

61. Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - BAMBER.

62. Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.

63. Only execution period available to Bamber, 12am - 3am - Not disputed - BAMBER

64. Housekeeper evidence of items around the sink being moved - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK

65. Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.

66. Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA

Offline Holly Goodhead

Adam's List:

1. Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA
Why would they be otherwise?

2. One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA
Dr Vanezis trial testimony said SC had some blood around her wrist.  This wasn't tested so not really sure what it is supposed to prove/disprove?

3. Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.
I think you mean consistent with handling cartridges as opposed to rifle?  SC's hands were not tested.  Swabs were taken from her hands using a special kit for GSR.  This then morphed into a test for lead from handling cartridges.  There's no such forensic test capable of determining whether or not someone handled cartridges when lead was prevalent in atmosphere and everyday items circa mid 80's.

4. Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.
No reason they would be otherwise.  The stress on nails/polish of loading cartridges into mag, chambering round, pulling trigger and using rifle to wield blows is no greater than many everyday activities that doesn't cause nails to break.  The Williams sisters are almost as famous for their nails/polish/artwork adorn during competitive matches as they are for their tennis.  They leave court with nails/polish/artwork in tact.

5. No broken nails - Not disputed COA.
As above

6. Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.
As above

7. No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.
Why would it be otherwise?  The stress to fingers/hands of loading cartridges into mag, chambering round, pulling trigger and wileding blows is no greater than everyday actions with a range of equipment.

8. No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.
Why would it be otherwise?

9. No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.
Why would it be otherwise?

10. No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.
Why would it be otherwise

11. Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE, BAMBER.
What time limits?  SC and NB were evidently in kitchen.  NB called JB.  Meanwhile SC went upstairs and shot June.  NB appeared on landing where SC shot him at close range x 2 in face.  NB turned to retreat downstairs where in the process SC shot him a further x 2.  SC and NB in kitchen.  NB badly injured and stumbling around.  SC reloaded and went back upstairs to shoot a badly injured June fatally.  Shot twins and then took her own life.  Imo they were probably all dead before EP arrived.  If not I believe SC took her own life shortly afterwards.

12. No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.
Why would it be otherwise?

13. No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA
Why would it be otherwise?  There's no evidence the cartridges used are capable of contaminating the hands with any debris during loading.

14. Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.
Why would it be otherwise?

15. Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.
Why would it be otherwise?  The pathologist didn't note any blood staining to NB's soles.  Blood drips onto what appears to be a wool carpet would quickly absorb.  I am sceptical about the authenticity of any soc images to emerge post trial especially since known criminals have had access to the files eg GDS.

16. Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - BAMBER
Why would it be otherwise?

17. No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.
Why would it be otherwise.  If sugar on floor SC's path may have avoided.  In any event had she picked up any sugar it would detach on the carpet walking to bedroom.  DC Hammersley confirmed sweepings were not taken.  Also the bags SC's feet were placed in were not checked.

18. No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.
There's no evidence of aggressive movement or brutal fight.  The rifle was used to wield blows to NB when he was almost dead or even dead.  Similarities might be females playing beach football or playing golf.  The former is played bare footed without injury and the latter involves using a club to strike an object.

19. Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.
Only two areas were tested using blood serology testing.  Had the nightdress not been destroyed DNA tests may have yielded more clues.

20. No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.
The nightdress wasn't tested for GSR.  Even if it had been it wouldn't have assisted as SC was found in an environment where a firearm had been discharged numerous times including twice over her body.

21. No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.
Why would it be otherwise?  Rifles are not routinely kept slathered in oil.  In any event the rifle was found resting on SC's person/nightdress so had the rifle contained oil then one would expect to find some transfer unless for some bizarre reason it only contained oil one side.

22. No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.
The nightdress did contain small holes with black ash like substance surrounding them.  There's no evidence of aggressive movement and brutal kitchen fight.

23. No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.
Why would it be otherwise?

24. Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - FORUM.
Why would it be otherwise - no evidence of kitchen fight.

25. Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - ACCEPTED FACT.
Makes no odds.  NB was too badly injured upstairs to put up any sort of resistance.  The pathologist describes "spirited defence".

26. Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.
What was there to remove that was tested for?

27. Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.
Obviously

28. Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.
Soc reconstruction supports NB downstairs.  How long he had been there is anyone's guess.  It was height of summer so no need for slippers/gown and hunting them out may well have disturbed June.

29. Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.
Whether SC had got into bed/slept or was just lying on top who knows.  It seems she was downstairs with NB when NB called JB and SC went upstairs to shoot June.  SC may not have bought slippers/gown with her.  In any event height of summer so no real need for.

30. Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.
When/how did it get there?

31. Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.
When/how did it get there?

32. Blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.
When/how did it get there?

33. No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.
Fletcher's trial testimony states there was a small amount of blood around rifle muzzle.  Forensic tests based on numerous firearms in US shows contact wounds don't always leave traces of blood inside/outside muzzle.

34. Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.
A/PS Woodcock's WS states SC's head was propped against bedside cabinet.  SOC images show her head to left.  Forensic scientist Martyn Ismail states after SC sustained the 2nd gsw her head would have fallen straight back against the bedside cabinet.  He also states her nightdress was rucked at back but not in front and she had been pulled by her feet.  Clearly JB didn't move SC so it must have either been EP or Dr Craig.

35. Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.
It appears to be blood but question is whose?  Afaik it wasn't tested.

36. A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.
All the blood tested in this area was shown to originate from June.

37. Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE.
The levels of Haloperidol in SC's system were only just in the moderate range.  No evidence of any large scale multiple mental and physical effects based on such levels.

38. Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA.
As above.

39. Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE.
SC had a history of volatility.

40. Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.
There's no evidence SC was under sedation.

41. Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER.
Agreed.

42. Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - 20 SOURCES IN THE LIBRARY.
All windows were found secured from within.  JB said he was able to open up closed windows and enter but he didn't know of a way to leave a window secure upon exiting.  Jurors should have been taken to WHF to check for themselves.

43. No better massacre weapon options for Bamber - Not disputed - FORUM.
Robin and David Bain were both proficient with firearms.  This case involved 4 murders/1 suicide with a .22 rifle and only 7 cartridges were required.  Had JB been responsible, a marksman, he could easily have murdered his family using 1 cartridge per victim.  The DeFeo case involved a similar number of victims and low powered firearm with around the same number of cartridges used in the Bain case.  The only argument here is that JB went for overkill to make the soc look amateurish and frenzied.

44. Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell - Not disputed after Bamber hired him - WILKES'S BOOK.
This was all done on the cheap.  McDonnel thought a silencer was definitely used and ruled murder on the basis he thought SC would be unable to pull trigger.  When he discovered the silencer was the contentious point he confirmed he was unable to establoish murder or suicide.

45. Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.
What does this prove.  Had JB been responsible he could just have easily walked or jogged.

46. Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS.
Supposedly for JM but doesn't prove anything. 

47. June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA.
The bloodstains on June's pillow and bullets found within suggest her head was on pillow when she sustained her first gsw's but whether she was asleep or not we will never know.  Whether she was awake or asleep doesn't prove anything.

48. Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion burns were caused minus silencer rejected - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME.
Prof Knight at trial didn't think they were burns.  No one seemed to ask whether the marks were definitely fresh.  Personally I think the marks are unrelated.

49. 2012 CCRC court judgement - judicial review request made & rejected - JUDICIAL REVIEW DOCUMENT.
Courts are reluctant to overturn verdicts returned by jurors.  The CoA 2002 was pants.  I haven't seen all the points raised in 2011/12 to have any opinion.  It didn't seem to go far enough showing the silencer/blood was fabricated.

50. The twins not waking - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.
No reason why they would.  Imo the whole thing happened quickly.  We all go through periods of sleep which are difficult to wake from.

51. Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.
What does this prove/disprove?

52. Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COURT OF APPEAL.
If a victim sustains 2 gsw's to his/her face at close range they are pretty much a sitting duck thereafter.

53. Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE STATEMENTS.
I've answered this above.  It was all over quickly:  NB and SC downstairs, NB calls JB, SC goes upstairs and shoots June, NB appears on landing SC shoots him twice at close range, NB turns SC shoots again x 2 and follows NB to kitchen where she beats a badly injured NB with the rifle whilst he was slumped over a chair, SC reloads and shoots NB a further x 4, reloads upstairs to shoot twins, reloads shoots June fatally and takes her own life.  Probably 10 mins.

54. No valid Sheila scenario - Not disputed - OS & FORUM.
As above

55. Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - BAMBER.
There's not one reliable piece of data to place any phone call but yes JB did call JM.

56. Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER.
Yes and this fits with soc.

57. Bamber asking the police to pick him up - Not disputed - WILKES, CRIMES, HEARTS & CORONETS.
Afaik this didn't feature in trial testimony but even if he did make such a request what would it prove /disprove?

58. Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - BAMBER.
Prof Knight at trial didn't think they were burns.

59. Ease for a man to lift & carry a woman - Not disputed. YOUTUBE VIDEO.
There's no evidence SC was so out of it she would allow JB to enter her bedroom and carry her around.

60. Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA.
Not sure what the point is?  Yes 5 bodies were found but certainly SC was moved and it wasn't by JB.

61. Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - BAMBER.
I don't believe this featured at trial as an exhibit?  JB's mode of entry was often by a window so a hacksaw may have been used but linking it to night of murders is a bit of a stretch.  There was a lot of tat hanging around outside.

62. Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.
SC was moved by EP or Dr Craig so the bible's position is totally unreliable.

63. Only execution period available to Bamber, 12am - 3am - Not disputed - BAMBER
Seems it was after the last sighting of NB by Len Foakes at just after 10pm.

64. Housekeeper evidence of items around the sink being moved - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK
These items are not fixed so anyone may have moved them.

65. Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.
NC sustained contact gsw's to his head and this anatomical location is more likely to result on back spatter than the neck.

66. Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA
It looks to be a palm print yes but was it and whose blood.  I think an area was tested and according to lab found to be SC's blood.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 02:32:05 PM by Holly Goodhead »

Offline adam

That's great. At last. Bamber's supporters on the Blue forum are very determined but Mike, Lookout & Nugs never address the incriminating evidence,  while David just gets frustrated as he realises he made a wrong move in changing stance.

You're answers if all correct would make Bamber the unluckiest man ever & show an unprecedented successful industrial frame. Both of which supporters never agree with.  Unfortunately the answers are not correct.

All of 66 points have had at least one individual thread created by me, so I won't address each answer. Generally you're answers come under the following headings -

Why would it be otherwise ?

This is unacceptable & you're opinion. The COA & other sources would not mention these if it didn't deeply imcriminate Bamber.


No kitchen fight

The crime scene and Nevill's injuries show there was a huge fight. But all supporters must refute this as Sheila & her nightdress were unmarked.


Doesn't prove anything

However deeply incriminating. If there was one 'curious co incidence' maybe. But there are dozens.


The released evidence is wrong

All of my points had at least one source.  Maybe one or two will have alternative sources. Such as Sutherst's 2010 toe nail theory. But not 66.


Conflicting theories

You say Nevill & Sheila had been up bare footed in nightwear. Obviously making a lot of noise.  Then say why would the twins & June wake.

You say Sheila's face, body & nightdress being  spotless is expected. I assume you don't agree with Sutherst's toe nail polish theory.

--------------

Point 60 relates to the 5 crime scene threads of the 5 individuals which were posted on Blue. They all showed Bamber was the killer.

Point 11 refers to Sheila's time limits between 3.10am/3.36am - 3.48am. She would only have time to do about 20% of what people claim she did prior to the police arriving.

Have you got a source for point 20. The COA says there was no gun shot residue on Sheila. So she must have been tested.





« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 08:26:44 PM by adam »

Offline Holly Goodhead

That's great. At last. Bamber's supporters on the Blue forum are very determined but Mike, Lookout & Nugs never address the incriminating evidence,  while David gets frustrated as he realises he made a wrong move in changing stance.

You're answers if all correct would make Bamber the unluckiest man ever & show an unprecedented successful industrial frame. Both of which supporters never agree with.  Unfortunately the answers are not correct.

JB's case needs putting into context in that it's the only peacetime mass shooting unwitnessed by others.  I see it as more a case of incompetence and negligence rather than "industrial frame" but for sure if he's innocent evidence was fabricated with EP and the lab involved.
 
All of 66 points have had at least one individual thread created by me, so I won't address each answer. Generally you're answers come under the following headings -

Why would it be otherwise ?

This is unacceptable & you're opinion. The COA & other sources would not mention these if it didn't deeply imcriminate Bamber.

The sources are weak at best based on 21st century forensic science.  3 appeal court judges, general scientists from FSS and UK based lawyers for defence and prosecution do not have the expertise in mass shootings.  Parliament has already acknowledged high profile quality failings at FSS during 1980's. 

What more can I say other than agree SC's person and nightdress are consistent with her as perp.

No kitchen fight

The crime scene and Nevill's injuries show there was a huge fight. But all supporters must refute this as Sheila & her nightdress were unmarked.

I disagree that the soc shows a "huge fight".  Anyone sustaining 2 gsw's at close range to the face which were enough to kill had others not supervened was in no fit state to put up a defense.  It seems NB was stumbling around in pain and shock and knocking into things.  Remember also he had lost the use of his left arm.   

Doesn't prove anything

However deeply incriminating. If there was one 'curious co incidence' maybe. But there are dozens.

No one would convict on these 'curious coincidences'.  You could take any case and find 'curious coincidences.  JB was convicted on silencer and blood not 'curious coincidences'.

The released evidence is wrong

All of my points had at least one source.  Maybe one or two will have alternative sources. Such as Sutherst's 2010 toe nail theory. But not 66.

I don't see a source as being sound forensic evidence.

Conflicting theories

You say Nevill & Sheila had been up bare footed in nightwear. Obviously making a lot of noise.  Then say why would the twins & June wake.

You say Sheila's face, body & nightdress being  spotless is expected. I assume you don't agree with Sutherst's toe nail polish theory.

As I said I think NB and SC were downstairs.  NB called JB and SC went upstairs to shoot June.  At this point there's no reason to believe there was any particular noise upstairs in what you term a "big house".  Once upstairs SC released a volley of shots into June.  NB arrived on the landing and sustained the 2 x gsw's to his face taking out his voice box rendering him speechless.  He retreated downstairs with SC following.  He stumbled into table and stools and fell precariously on the chair where SC wielded blows with the rifle and shot NB a further 4 x's.  Any noise heard by the twins was likely to come from June but she may have kept quiet in an attempt to keep them safe. 

I don't know much about Peter Surherst's nail theory but it sounds a bit flakey!

Point 60 relates to the 5 crime scene threads of the 5 individuals which were posted on Blue. They all showed Bamber was the killer.

I don't believe there's any evidence which shows JB as perp other than the silencer/blood taken at face value.
   
Point 11 refers to Sheila's time limits between 3.10am/3.36am - 3.48am. She would only have time to do about 20% of what people claim she did prior to the police arriving.

Well I don't believe she did what has been claimed eg ritual wash/shower, read bible, wrote suicide notes etc.