The Bonnett/West Telephonic Incident Logs

[Nicholas]

Are you accepting that Bonnett did take calls from the public?  Has that point been established?

I don't agree with your premise about Bonnett.  The issue here is one of interpretation.  What I'm trying to isolate is whether there is a gap in the chain of logic when we apply YOUR interpretation to the Bonnett/West records.

The whole point is that if there were two calls, Bonnett needn't have said anything as the telephone logs he compiled in conjunction with West reflected the position accurately.  If, on the other hand, there was only one caller, Jeremy, I am wondering why that might not have been brought to somebody's attention long before Bamber came under suspicion, as it seems to me a pretty telling indicator that something was not right with Bamber's story. 

Just to be clear, I am not necessarily suggesting that Bonnett personally had a duty to raise the matter.  He was a civilian police telephone operator, not a sworn constable, but if we accept that your reading of the documents is right, it does seem odd that this wasn't raised. 

I think it is possible that Nevill did call and, perhaps briefly, got through to Bonnett, and for any one or combination of reasons, Bonnett has forgotten this as the records were later interpreted as 'one caller' rather than two. 

One final point, for now: I don't believe that it took until 2007 for it to be suggested that Nevill called.  The idea of Nevill dialling 999 or otherwise alerting the authorities is a perfectly obvious line of inquiry.  What looks more likely to me is that no evidence of such a call had been disclosed, and therefore whether or not such a call had been made could not be established by the defence.  The Bonnett log has subsequently been made available at some point, and this does, on its face and when read in conjunction with the West document, suggest there were two callers, not one.

I ought to add that I do accept that Bamber's defence does not rely on Nevill having made a call, and yes, I should have taken that into account in my previous post above when I discussed Bonnett specifically.

When did Jeremy Bambers campaign go public?

Why don't you look for yourself in order to find out when it was suggested Neville called as opposed to dismissing it because it doesn't sit with your theory

[Caroline]

When did Jeremy Bambers campaign go public?

Why don't you look for yourself in order to find out when it was suggested Neville called as opposed to dismissing it because it doesn't sit with your theory

Just checked and it was 2004 (not 2007) that it was claimed a second log was discovered which is when the phone call from Nevil became part of the campaign. LW can believe what he likes, he asked questions -you can't just pick and choose the parts you like and build the rest on 'what ifs'.

[Nicholas]

Just checked and it was 2004 (not 2007) that it was claimed a second log was discovered which is when the phone call from Nevil became part of the campaign. LW can believe what he likes, he asked questions -you can't just pick and choose the parts you like and build the rest on 'what ifs'.

Do you know who discovered the log?

It's clear that Bamber only ran with this when one of two of his supporters became excited about it. Bit like the Higham and Zenith burglaries in the Hall case and the Portuguese guy who was murdered in Norwich.

If Jeremy Bamber were innocent and his father HAD called, Bamber would have been shouting this from the roof tops from the start. He didn't! That's a fact.

One only need refer to some of Aunt A's previous posts, when, according to her, it was just her and Bamber in the early years. He was probably just glad to have a someone. Anyone would have done IMO. From what little I know of AA she seems like a nice person. However I'm of the firm belief she was manipulated by Bamber to do his bidding and I know from having contact with her once or twice in the past she went through hell for him. Same as many of the people he's had around him. He would turn one against the other and caused no end of trouble for them all. I witnessed a lot of this on Facebook back in 2008/09/10.

It's a shame AA doesn't post these days. I believe her and people like her could give further exposés on Bamber.

[Nicholas]

Just checked and it was 2004 (not 2007) that it was claimed a second log was discovered which is when the phone call from Nevil became part of the campaign. LW can believe what he likes, he asked questions -you can't just pick and choose the parts you like and build the rest on 'what ifs'.

Nearly 20 years before he decided to promote this manufactured theory in other words

[Nicholas]

Nearly 20 years before he decided to promote this manufactured theory in other words

Here's a post made by AA

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358356.html#msg358356


"That's a really tough question to answer, coming from you.

You've been in my situation - I remember you standing up for Simon, alone at times.
You were steadfast in your view.....and your feelings only confirmed what you thought.

I felt that way about Jeremy too.

I've said this so many times on here.....I remember the early days - before the revelations.
I'm certain he had absolutely no idea of what exactly happened that night.

The lies we had been fed by the police did not make sense.....nothing fitted into place.
Together we went over and over the same things, hoping that one of us could  (as there was only two of us then), might pick up on something we'd overlooked previously.

I was there when the new revelations came about also - he would phone me upon reading the new evidence .... We would then try to piece that new information together and then he would find further information and again we would try to form anther picture of what happened.

That picture changed many times as more information was being revealed.

He was very emotional when he began to understand what had happened. He was angry, sad, excited, relieved......we both tried to get our heads round the new info.

[Nicholas]

Here's a post made by AA

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358356.html#msg358356


"That's a really tough question to answer, coming from you.

You've been in my situation - I remember you standing up for Simon, alone at times.
You were steadfast in your view.....and your feelings only confirmed what you thought.

I felt that way about Jeremy too.

I've said this so many times on here.....I remember the early days - before the revelations.
I'm certain he had absolutely no idea of what exactly happened that night.

The lies we had been fed by the police did not make sense.....nothing fitted into place.
Together we went over and over the same things, hoping that one of us could  (as there was only two of us then), might pick up on something we'd overlooked previously.

I was there when the new revelations came about also - he would phone me upon reading the new evidence .... We would then try to piece that new information together and then he would find further information and again we would try to form anther picture of what happened.

That picture changed many times as more information was being revealed.

He was very emotional when he began to understand what had happened. He was angry, sad, excited, relieved......we both tried to get our heads round the new info.

AA confirms when it was just her and Bamber there was nothing to support his claims of innocence - because he wasn't innocent.

It wasn't until more people got on board, Mike T for example, that Bamber started manufacturing theories based on the flaws and discrepancies in the case files.

I believe the emotions to which AA refers were her emotions being mimicked by Bamber.


AA goes on to post -
"....and I was just gullible! Possibly. Nothing can be ruled out


(Hope she's doing okay!)

[Nicholas]

Just checked and it was 2004 (not 2007) that it was claimed a second log was discovered which is when the phone call from Nevil became part of the campaign. LW can believe what he likes, he asked questions -you can't just pick and choose the parts you like and build the rest on 'what ifs'.

Bamber was handed five life sentences, with a recommendation that he stay in prison for at least 25 years without parole. After the sentencing, Mr Justice Drake said:

"I find it difficult to foresee whether it will ever be safe to release someone who can shoot two little boys as they lie asleep in their beds.”

He also noted the problems that had taken place during initial enquiries and throughout the main police investigations.

The first major error in this case was the police allowing the house be cleared shortly after the killings. The house itself had been cleaned and the carpets and bedclothes burned on instruction of Bamber.

Bamber’s fingerprints were eventually discovered on the bible and gun left on Sheila’s body, but were missed during the initial enquiries.

It was also revealed that while Bamber had said that he received a panic-stricken phone call from his father, Neville had actually been shot in the throat in the upstairs of the house and couldn’t have made such a call.

This catalogue of blunders led the trial judge Mr Justice Drake to comment “The perfunctory examination is only explicable because the police thought there was nothing to solve.


I'd like to hear what LM has to say about the evidence deduced at trial in relation to NB's gunshot wound to the throat and the alledged phonecall.

[Caroline]

Do you know who discovered the log?

It's clear that Bamber only ran with this when one of two of his supporters became excited about it. Bit like the Higham and Zenith burglaries in the Hall case and the Portuguese guy who was murdered in Norwich.

If Jeremy Bamber were innocent and his father HAD called, Bamber would have been shouting this from the roof tops from the start. He didn't! That's a fact.

One only need refer to some of Aunt A's previous posts, when, according to her, it was just her and Bamber in the early years. He was probably just glad to have a someone. Anyone would have done IMO. From what little I know of AA she seems like a nice person. However I'm of the firm belief she was manipulated by Bamber to do his bidding and I know from having contact with her once or twice in the past she went through hell for him. Same as many of the people he's had around him. He would turn one against the other and caused no end of trouble for them all. I witnessed a lot of this on Facebook back in 2008/09/10.

It's a shame AA doesn't post these days. I believe her and people like her could give further exposés on Bamber.

It was never lost Steph. Most people think it was the Bonnett log that was supposed to be newly discovered because that's the one that looks like it might have been a call from Nebil (on the surface), however, it's the West log.

[adam]

Again, let me repeat the question that remains about this evidence:

Did Bonnett take calls from the public?  Has that point been established?

I would kindly and respectfully ask that there are no further posts to this thread that are off-topic.  Please just answer the question.

Thank you very much.

                          Minutes:                Miles:

Chelmsford      0.39                         21.1
Maldon             0.20                         7.2
Tiptree              0.10                         3.8
Witham             0.27                        11.1
Colchester       0.26                         13

Why do you believe Nevill would call the 5th furthest away police station ?

There is no possibility Bamber would have done this, if innocent. However it has been accepted from day one he did.

Who would call their 5th furthest away police station after being awoken by a relative at 3am ? No one.

Who would call the 5th furthest away police station if their daughter is waiving around a rifle in her nightie & bare feet ? No one.

[adam]

Tolleshunt D'arcy is another police station which existed in 1985. This would have been the nearest police station to WHF although I don't know the exact miles/minutes. So Chelmsford was the 6th furthest away police station.

Bamber asked the police to pick him up, to enhance the impression he had just been woken at home by Nevill's call. This must have been most likely possible if a police car was dispatched from Chelmsford.

[Caroline]

Tolleshunt D'arcy is another police station which existed in 1985. This would have been the nearest police station to WHF although I don't know the exact miles/minutes. So Chelmsford was the 6th furthest away police station.

Bamber asked the police to pick him up, to enhance the impression he had just been woken at home by Nevill's call. This must have been most likely possible if a police car was dispatched from Chelmsford.

It is 'possible' that he chose Chelmsford simply because it was listed first? However, that doesn't explain why he didn't call 999, which he wouldn't have needed to look up.

[adam]

It is 'possible' that he chose Chelmsford simply because it was listed first? However, that doesn't explain why he didn't call 999, which he wouldn't have needed to look up.

Did you ask him ?

Two policemen testified Bamber said he had phoned Witham. Which would have been listed last.

I would not go through a phone directory from A-Z until I found a police station I believed was within 25 miles from me.

I know my nearest police station, which similar to Tolleshunt D'arcy for Bamber, is walking distance. After that I know nothing & would have to dial 999.

[adam]

I have never read why Bamber rang Chelmsford police station. Just read that 'it didn't occur to him to phone farm workers' & 'he didn't think it would make any difference' in response times' by calling Chelmsford instead of 999.

Bamber could have gone straight to 'C' in the phone directory, knowing Chelmsford would come under 'C'. The problem is it was the 6th furthest away police station & over 20 miles away. Colchester was also nearer.

Who would know & then search for their 6th furthest away police station in an emergency ? It can only be that Bamber wanted to increase his chances of being picked up.

[Caroline]

Did you ask him ?

Two policemen testified Bamber said he had phoned Witham. Which would have been listed last.

I would not go through a phone directory from A-Z until I found a police station I believed was within 25 miles from me.

I know my nearest police station, which similar to Tolleshunt D'arcy for Bamber, is walking distance. After that I know nothing & would have to dial 999.

No, that isn't a question I asked and I agree - I don't think there any excuse for him not to have dialled 999 - I don't believe he would have been in shock if he did receive a call. I think it would have been a natural reaction to dial 999 and then go over there - without hesitation.

[adam]

Bamber has already agreed he drove very slowly to WHF & was overtaken by a police car. He testified he drove slowly as he wanted to arrive after the police.

He could now publically say he wanted the police to pick him up because he was scared. But in the heat of the moment wouldn't he have still dialled 999 or Tolleshunt D'arcy & asked to be picked up ? That is if the 'getting picked up'  thought actually crossed his mind in the panic.

Ringing Chelmsford was obviously pre planned. The further out a police car is dispatched from, the more chance there was of it making a small diversion to pick Bamber up.