Author Topic: Barry George revisited.  (Read 44502 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #705 on: May 06, 2019, 07:56:14 AM »
Barry was on the threshold of giving his life to Christ (just weeks away from being baptised) when he was arrested and his life crashed down around him. He attended every religious service while in prison, but Michelle tells me he wasn’t allowed to be baptised and hasn’t taken that step since.
https://www.premierchristianity.com/Past-Issues/2019/April-2019/My-brother-was-wrongly-convicted-of-murdering-Jill-Dando

If true, and I suspect it isn’t, other than manipulation I can see no other reason for making this claim. Again, depending on what medium you listen to or read, her stories differ.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #706 on: May 06, 2019, 08:23:40 AM »
Pro Norman Fenton on probability and law

Worth a listen https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RVQ6kReMLdw

Angela Shaws’s findings on the gunshot residue in the Barry George case is “completely blown apart” by Norman Fenton.


“Angela Shaw was interviewed by Marcus Plowright, Director, for a BBC documentary covering the Murder of Jill Dando almost 20 years after she was fatally shot on the doorstep of her home in Gowan Avenue, London. The film examines the investigation into Jill Dando’s death which was led by Detective Chief Inspector Hamish Campbell of the MPS and which culminated in the charging and conviction of Barry George for Ms Dando’s murder. Part of the evidence used by the Prosecution in the Trial against Mr George was a single particle of gunshot residue found in an inside pocket of a coat found at his home address. The film, with Angela’s assistance, examines the lack of significance that could be attached to the single particle of gunshot residue found in the coat pocket almost a year after the shooting. The GSR finding was ruled inconclusive by the Court of Appeal and Mr George’s conviction was quashed. Upon retrial he was found not guilty. https://www.principalforensicservices.com/angela-contributes-to-the-murder-of-jill-dando-documentary/

http://forensicfirearmsconsultancy.com/author/ffc/
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 08:42:47 AM by Nicholas »
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Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #707 on: May 06, 2019, 08:36:59 AM »
Pro Norman Fenton on probability and law

Worth a listen https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RVQ6kReMLdw

An unusual pattern: Is Benjamin Geen a killer or England's unluckiest man?
“Norman Fenton is a professor of risk management information at Queen Mary London University.
And Ben Geen, he says, might be the victim of what he terms an 'exaggerated coincidence'.
'What you've got is apparently a highly unusual sequence of events happening at this particular hospital.
'If you looked at that individually—what is the probability that this particular nurse would be present at 18 respiratory arrest events at the same hospital within such a short period of time—the probability is incredibly low.'
But Fenton is 'almost certain' that similar patterns would have occurred in a given two-month period in thousands of hospitals across the UK.
'Think of it this way,' Fenton says. 'In most hospitals, the nurses tend to be on duty for at least 50 to 70 per cent of the recorded time.
'For any given nurse to be present at all of those events is still—again—a very, very low probability.
'But what you've got is, let's say, 100 nurses at any given hospital where one of these sequence of events has been observed—again, there is quite a high probability that at least one of them would have been present at all, in this case 18, such events.'
In other words, statistically speaking, Geen won the lottery twice—but it was the wrong kind of lottery.
When Geen's team appealed his conviction on statistical grounds, the court didn't agree with Hutton or Fenton's analyses, arguing that there was no need to statistically validate the opinion evidence of experts.
It's worth noting: neither Hutton nor Fenton were arguing that Geen was innocent, merely making the case for greater statistical rigour.
The court claimed that 'academic statistical opinion, however distinguished, is divorced from the actual facts'.
After all, real people—patients, jurors, healthcare professionals in the high pressure environment of A and E—have to react to a lot more than raw data.
But in the case of Geen, what were they reacting to?
The spectre of Harold Shipman still very much haunts the UK healthcare system.
Shipman, nicknamed 'Dr Death', is the most prolific serial killer on record—arrested in 1998 and sentenced to life in prison by 2000, he was confirmed by an inquiry to have killed 218 of his patients, though it's suspected the true number could be as high as 250.
Shipman hanged himself in his cell on 13 January, 2004—just 23 days before the two patients that sparked the Horton General Hospital investigation suffered respiratory arrest.
'Since the Shipman inquiry, as soon as there's an accusation, you've got to think dirty,' says Dr Wendy Hesketh, who is writing a book about medico-crime.
'If you don't, you could find yourself having to answer as to why you didn't do a full investigation.'
Hesketh points out that in Geen's case very few incidences of respiratory deaths were considered suspicious when they occurred.
'Beforehand, they weren't flagged up to anyone, no one was suspicious, no one thought that there was any untoward behaviour or that anyone had been unlawfully killed.
'All of a sudden you've got this team who are actually potential witnesses themselves, and they are talking to each other and reinforcing their own suspicions.
Read more here: https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/benjamin-geen-an-unusual-pattern/7287620


Ben Geen: another possible case of miscarriage of justice and misunderstanding statistics?
http://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-ben-geen-case-another-miscarriage.html

https://www.crcpress.com/Risk-Assessment-and-Decision-Analysis-with-Bayesian-Networks/Fenton-Neil/p/book/9781138035119

http://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 08:46:28 AM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #708 on: May 06, 2019, 08:53:30 AM »
Angela Shaws’s findings on the gunshot residue in the Barry George case is “completely blown apart” by Norman Fenton.

Excerpts from Bayes and the Law - Norman Fenton, Martin Neil, and Daniel Berger
Abstract
“Although the last forty years has seen considerable growth in the use of statistics in legal proceedings, it is primarily classical statistical methods rather than Bayesian methods that have been used. Yet the Bayesian approach avoids many of the problems of classical statistics and is also well suited to a broader range of problems. This paper reviews the potential and actual use of Bayes in the law and explains the main reasons for its lack of impact on legal practice. These include misconceptions by the legal community about Bayes’ theorem, over-reliance on the use of the likelihood ratio and the lack of adoption of modern computational methods. We argue that Bayesian Networks (BNs), which automatically produce the necessary Bayesian calculations, provide an opportunity to address most concerns about using Bayes in the law.

Conclusions
Proper use of Bayesian reasoning has the potential to improve the efficiency, transparency and fairness of criminal and civil justice systems. It can help experts formulate accurate and informative opinions; help courts determine admissibility of evidence; help identify which cases should be pursued; and help lawyers to explain, and jurors to evaluate, the weight of evidence during a trial. It can also help identify errors and unjustified assumptions entailed in expert opinions.

Yet, despite the impeccable theoretical credentials of Bayes in presenting legal arguments, and despite the enormous number of academic papers making the case for it, our review of the impact in practice of Bayes in the Law is rather depressing. It confirms that its impact on legal practice has been minimal outside of paternity cases. While it has been used in some well-known cases to expose instances of the prosecutor’s fallacy, that very fallacy continues to afflict many cases. And while the LR has been quite widely used to present the impact of forensic evidence, we have explained the multiple problems with it and the danger of allowing it to be seen as synonymous with Bayes and the law. The fact that these problems were not the reason for the RvT judgment in 2010 which effectively banned the use of the LR (outside of DNA evidence) makes the judgment even more of a travesty than many assume it to be.

In addition to the RvT judgment, we have seen the devastating appeal judgments in R v Adams (effectively banning the use of Bayes for combining ‘non statistical evidence’) and in (Nulty & Ors v Milton Keynes Borough Council, 2013) which went as far as banning the use of probability completely when discussing events that had happened but whose outcome was unknown. Even when an appeal judgment was favourable to Bayes ((R. v. George, EWCA Crim 2722, 2007)) subsequent research has discovered weaknesses in the LR reasoning (Fenton et al., 2013a). Similar weaknesses have been recently exposed in other ‘successful’ Bayesian arguments such as those used in the successful Sally Clark appeal (Fenton, 2014).

The good news is that the difficulties encountered in presenting Bayesian arguments can be avoided once it is accepted that over-simplistic LR models and inference calculations from first principles are generally unsuitable. We have explained that BNs are the appropriate vehicle for overcoming these problems since they enable us to model the correct relevant hypotheses and the full causal context of the evidence. Unfortunately, too many people in the community are unaware of (or reluctant to use) the tools available for easily building and running BN models.

Read more here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4934658/
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 08:57:14 AM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #709 on: May 06, 2019, 09:09:20 AM »

“An Irish uncle of Barry George, the convicted murderer of BBC presenter Jill Dando, protested his nephew's innocence shortly before the jury handed down the verdict yesterday. Mr Tony Bourke, from the Co Limerick village of Ballyneety, said he had been following news of the trial on Sky TV. His sister, Ms Margaret George, is the mother of Barry George and comes originally from Ballyneety.
Mr Bourke, speaking outside his bungalow home yesterday, said he was sure his nephew was innocent. He had known him as a teenager in London when he visited his elder sister's house.
At the time, Mr Bourke was working in factories there. He remembered George being interested in books and pop music.
As far as I was concerned, he was the same as any teenager. I said all along and I still say it, he is innocent. He could not have done it, no way.

"If he is found guilty, there is no way I will believe it. I will still say he is innocent."
Now semi-retired, Mr Bourke said he had returned from London in 1974 after spending 17 years there.
A bachelor, he shares his home with his brother, Michael, who was in London with other family members during the trial.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/george-s-irish-uncle-says-he-could-not-have-done-it-no-way-1.315991

On the 26th November 2005 Barry George’s uncle Thomas (Tom) passed away. https://notices.irishtimes.com/death/burke/2375124?s_source=itir_titi

Barry George’s uncle Mike mentions this in his book “Mike’s Story” but Michelle Diskin Bates makes no mention of it in Stand Against Injustice, which I find telling for varying reasons.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #710 on: May 06, 2019, 09:17:11 AM »
Natalie Smith clearly hasn’t considered the fact Barry George may have duped his way through the criminal process (I firmly believe he has), instead she argues, “nearly everyone has been mislead about the strength of the firearms residue evidence....

Recklessness could apply to Natalie Smith’ who apparently is a lawyer specialising in criminal litigation, she states:

The expert evidence provides a terrifying image of her last moments. The killer forced her head either onto or close to the front step of her home, then bending or crouching over her he pressed a gun to her head and shot her. It was an execution. It was violence aimed at a woman and one of the most famous women in Britain at the time.

These are Natalie Smith’s images.

She then claims:

The pressure and determination to find the killer made the criminal justice system reckless.

There’s no evidence of this.

The smallest of evidence took on too great a significance and those tasked with finding the killer ended up seeing what they wanted to in it. Logic became obscured.

Seems to me Natalie Smith is seeing what she wants to see, dismissing all other evidential evidence in the process, and it’s her logic that has become obscured.  *&^^&

According to her website bio she has, “successfully defended in cases involving very serious criminal allegations, particularly those that are damaging to reputation.
http://defendingfalseallegations.co.uk/Natalie%20Smith%20CV%20.pdf

And apparently currently works for Hodge, Jones and Allen who ironically Jon Robbins wrote about here:

Hodge Jones & Allen faces legal action for ‘hopeless’ MMR litigation - Posted By Jon Robins - 27th June 2
“Hodge Jones & Allen have flatly denied that they knowingly pursued ‘hopeless’ MMR vaccine litigation cases.
http://legalvoice.org.uk/hodge-jones-allen-faces-legal-action-for-hopeless-mmr-litigation/

Lawyers accused of milking millions from legal aid by pursuing 'hopeless' bid for compensation over claims MMR jab was linked to autism
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2670479/Families-failed-win-compensation-flawed-MMR-research-suing-lawyers-pursuing-hopeless-claims-making-millions-legal-aid.html

I don’t suppose she’s considered the police in this case had their reputations smeared, which in turn distorted the public’s perceptions of their investigation? Which Barry George attempted to use to his advantage.

I don’t understand why Jon Robbins of The Justice Gap gave Natalie Smith a platform to make claim re Jill Dando’s murder, that “pressure to find a killer made the criminal justice system reckless - this is a sweeping statement and it has already been pointed out; there is no evidence of this.

Peoples perceptions could be described as reckless.

Given the fact he’s met with Professor Norman Fenton, and I’m assuming he’s familiar with his work (Based on his writings), how he’s yet to join the dots in the Barry George case?

Prof Fenton argued that situations which appear to be extremely unlikely coincidence were often not as unlikely as most people thought. ‘Coincidences which appear almost impossible often actually have a very high probability of occurring,’ he said. https://www.thejusticegap.com/guilty-until-proven-innocent-book-launch-report/

“Jon Robins argued that the protections put in place as a result of scandals such as the Birmingham Six had failed. ‘It’s not a sign of weakness to recognise fallibility. It is actually the sign for a system that works. And this is a system that isn’t working. The safety net that we thought we put in place after the Birmingham 6 isn’t there.’
Robins spoke about the families that featured in his book. ‘I have spent a long time interviewing people in this room,’ he said. ‘The reality is that our interests aren’t aligned and that can make for a complicated, even fraught relationship.’
‘From my perspective I have seen extraordinary courage from people who fight the most extreme odds and extraordinary love from those who have supported them.’


Jon Robbins appears to have recognised that some within the moj movement don’t share the same interests but omits to point out the fact that within the moj movement there are individuals who aren’t all they profess to be; the wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Injustices come in many forms.

Dr Waney Squier told the audience that there were ‘probably well over 200 families damaged and destroyed’ by incorrect diagnoses of shaken baby syndrome every year. Dr Squier was struck off by the General Medical Council, and subsequently reinstated but remains barred from giving evidence in court.
She said that the controversial ‘diagnosis’ was based on an assumption of a triad of symptoms. ‘This assumption has never been supported by any scientific evidence,’ she said.’ But science is not a democracy and a hypothesis cannot be accepted as correct just because people believe it.’ She criticised the family courts for ‘draconian decisions to remove babies from their parents’.
Dr Squier argued that the problem with these courts appear was two-fold. ‘Firstly, secrecy so we cannot see and hear what is being used as evidence; secondly, the routine use of single joint experts. As the single expert his opinion isn’t challenged. This is wrong and against the spirit of our adversarial system. Any opinion should surely be strengthened by intelligent opposition.’
‘How much longer can we tolerate courts making decisions of such major importance, destroying hundreds of families every year, on the basis of unsubstantiated consensus opinion rather than science?’

https://www.thejusticegap.com/guilty-until-proven-innocent-book-launch-report/
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 10:00:23 AM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #711 on: May 06, 2019, 10:06:01 AM »
Angela Shaws’s findings on the gunshot residue in the Barry George case is “completely blown apart” by Norman Fenton.


“Angela Shaw was interviewed by Marcus Plowright, Director, for a BBC documentary covering the Murder of Jill Dando almost 20 years after she was fatally shot on the doorstep of her home in Gowan Avenue, London. The film examines the investigation into Jill Dando’s death which was led by Detective Chief Inspector Hamish Campbell of the MPS and which culminated in the charging and conviction of Barry George for Ms Dando’s murder. Part of the evidence used by the Prosecution in the Trial against Mr George was a single particle of gunshot residue found in an inside pocket of a coat found at his home address. The film, with Angela’s assistance, examines the lack of significance that could be attached to the single particle of gunshot residue found in the coat pocket almost a year after the shooting. The GSR finding was ruled inconclusive by the Court of Appeal and Mr George’s conviction was quashed. Upon retrial he was found not guilty. https://www.principalforensicservices.com/angela-contributes-to-the-murder-of-jill-dando-documentary/

http://forensicfirearmsconsultancy.com/author/ffc/

“During Keeley's career, the crime that people will perhaps be most familiar with is the murder of BBC presenter Dando. She was shot outside her home in Fulham on 26 April, 1999. The crime was efficient, fast and brutal and left police floundering, but forensic evidence apparently told a different story.

Local man Barry George was convicted of the murder after Keeley identified a single particle of "firearms discharge residue" and concluded it could have been linked to the killing. Many believed at the time that George, who had a history of criminal and antisocial behaviour, was simply not calculated enough to have carried out such an act.

In 2007 Keeley, haunted by the case, admitted that the evidence was at best neutral and George had his conviction quashed in 2008. Dando's killer has never been found.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-robin-keeley-1-806816
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #712 on: May 06, 2019, 10:17:21 AM »

CCRC
@ccrcupdate
Tonight's BBC programme #TheMurderofJillDando looks interesting and
@ccrcupdate
 recalls the CCRC's June 2007 referral for appeal of Barry George's murder conviction. His appeal succeeded and he was acquitted at a retrial.


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
·
Apr 2
Replying to
@ccrcupdate
Not so much interesting for Barry, as scary! He’s been battling for justice for 19yrs, then the officer who was responsible for his wrongful conviction is given a platform on BBC to say ‘no one else was being sought for this crime’ how else would he be feeling? Disgraceful!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ccrcupdate/status/1113074556862976001


WHY would Barry George be scared if what his sister Michelle Diskin Bates claims is true, then appear on an ITV documentary a few weeks later? The ITV documentary, which included her interview and her brothers interview, was made in advance of it’s airing.

The BBC documentary first aired on BBC1 on Tue 2 Apr 2019 @ 21:00 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003w40

And from this article in The Sunday Times, dated April 14 2019, Barry George and his sister has already been interviewed.

Interestingly, Crazy making behaviour is often behavior that is a projection from the person who is crazy making onto the person who is being crazy made. It is behavior that is not logical, not based on truth but on manipulating the other person into feeling wrong and changing their behavior
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/crazy-making_n_5860048



Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Watch this space...the must-see 👁 documentary! 😊🙃💪🏼

This is the documentary that will air on next Thursday at 9pm. In this programme you will learn far more than you ever have before😎 Both Barry and myself have taken part.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1119322847074299904


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Good grief...people don’t have enough work to do! #getalife There are more important things to get agitated about than TV presenters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1118096335436165120


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Please everyone, share on...I really want people to view this. More info soon 🤗♥️😸

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1119349775785132034


When someone’s words do not match their behaviour this is a red flag and no amount of emotional manipulation, as I see it, will further Barry George’s cause.

Two misguided individuals stand out to me in this case; one is very much Michelle Diskin Bates!

My opinions my observations.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #713 on: May 06, 2019, 11:10:15 AM »
If true, and I suspect it isn’t, other than manipulation I can see no other reason for making this claim. Again, depending on what medium you listen to or read, her stories differ.

As do her brothers:

“Inside prison, he had studied Buddhism, he said, but he had also, as a Catholic, prayed and read an Old Testament psalm every day. "I prayed that something would happen to get me out," he said.

Lots of prisoners blamed me for murdering Jill," he said. "They used to call me s..m and spit in my tea. I kept my head down and never spoke to anyone."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/04/jilldando.ukcrime
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 11:13:55 AM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #714 on: May 06, 2019, 11:18:58 AM »
As do her brothers:

“Inside prison, he had studied Buddhism, he said, but he had also, as a Catholic, prayed and read an Old Testament psalm every day. "I prayed that something would happen to get me out," he said.

Lots of prisoners blamed me for murdering Jill," he said. "They used to call me s..m and spit in my tea. I kept my head down and never spoke to anyone."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/04/jilldando.ukcrime

Remember Michelle Diskin Bates claims here:

Here’s another telling excerpt from Michelle Diskin Bates book, “Stand Against Injustice
“Sitting with others in the canteen one morning, I mentioned that I would really like to send a Bible verse to Barry to help keep his spirits up. I knew he had his Bible with him–after all, the media had mocked him enough for carrying it–so I knew he’d be able to look up the references I sent.Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.” (Deuteronomy 31: 6)
I also sent: “The LORD is my light and my salvation–whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life–of whom shall I be afraid? (Psalm 27: 1) Imagine my surprise when I received a Bible verse back from Barry, one perfectly suited to what I was going through! “May the God of hope fill you will all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 15: 13) I’d underestimated Barry; he knew his Bible better than I’d realised. Of course, he had been studying the Bible in readiness to take his Believer’s Baptism at the time the police arrested him.


Sounds to me like the three eminent professionals also underestimated Barry George!

I’d underestimated Barry; he knew his Bible better than I’d realised. Of course, he had been studying the Bible in readiness to take his Believer’s Baptism at the time the police arrested him

So, according to Michelle Diskin Bates, her brother Barry George was capable of studying the bible in readiness to take his Believers Baptism before he was arrested and had retained that knowledge for 8 years, yet incapable of murdering Jill Dando. Do give over!

It was almost a year after the murder that he was arrested; ample time to dispose of the gun and clothes he was wearing.

The forensic science services wouldn’t have tested every single item in Barry George’s home for gun shot residue due to costs. So although only one matching gun shot particle was found in his coat pocket, it’s possible others may have existed elsewhere but just hadn’t been picked up in by the chosen methods of the scene of crime techs.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 11:37:10 AM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #715 on: May 06, 2019, 11:43:50 AM »
Getting it wrong once was bad enough but Sandra Lean got it wrong twice that we definitely know about. She went to great lengths to campaign for killers Adrian Prout and Simon Hall yet both men eventually admitted their guilt. I for one would certainly question her judgement.

Michelle Bates involvement in the Bamber case is surprising given what we know about the conviction.  Jeremy Bamber is certainly no Barry George, the two cases couldn't be more different.

Have you not considered the reason Michelle Diskin Bates may have aligned herself with the Jeremy Bamber campaign was because she knew the Bamberettes were naive, gullible and prone to lack in judgement?

Plus she was running out of supporters. If you read her book it’s made clear; though unintentionally I imagine. But I don’t suppose she thought of these consequences when she chose to publish it. She’s made reference to many instances of where she clashed with others, including William Clegg QC.

Excerpts from Mike Bourke’s book Mike’s Story
“Eaten bread is quickly forgotten and neither I nor my fellow supporters would see or hear from Barry again. I felt quite bitter about it for a long while, and I was not alone in feeling like that. Some people put their professional reputations on the line and got no thanks for their efforts.
After I got home I read in some paper that Barry and family were on the Isle of Wight where Michelle introduced him to Sion Jenkins. The IPCC needed to know if I wanted to pursue my complaint but I did not now wish to have any further involvement and so I dropped it.
Scott later told me that JfB’s website had received 978 hits on August 1st, 533 on the 2nd, and 369 on the 3rd. On October 1st I shut it down.
It was now open season on Barry and the press set about destroying any hope of him settling into any kind of normal life in his home city of London. I watched dispassionately as his reputation, such as it was, nosedived over the last days of 2008 under a welter of tabloid fantasy. They ran stories on what he ate, what bookshops he visited, his temporary accommodation. They claimed incorrectly that he was stalking a nurse, that Sky’s Kay Burley was frightened sick by him, that he was interested in Cheryl Cole of X Factor, that he was involved with the partner of a convicted killer etc.
To make things even better a ‘spokesman’ for him allegedly confirmed some of those manufactured stories. Pat Reynolds said to me one day: ‘with friends like those who needs enemies?’ It was a little sad to see the end results of the long hard battle and one day a despairing Margaret said to me that it was now worse than when he was in prison.

“That evening I met David Perrin in a Shepherds Bush pub where we had a nice pint of Guinness. We discussed the website and he gave me some advice on that saying that I should look at Susan May’s website. He then said that Barry’s supporters seemed to be fragmented, and suggested that it would be more effective if there was a combined united push for Barry. Good advice I thought.
On Thursday Michelle and Margaret took Sheba the cat to the vet, as she had a sore mouth. In the evening I told Michelle about the planned website, and about David’s suggestion of a united front. She did not seem to be very interested.


“On Sunday November 10th we had agreed on the first page of the website. I wrote to MOJO suggesting that we should form a united campaign front for Barry. The ‘site was up and running by the 20th, www.barrygeorge.co.uk ‘He’s Net Guilty’, the Irish Mirror reported, next to a large photo of Michelle and Margaret. The Guardian also gave it a mention in an article on prisoner websites. MOJO’s Hazel Keirle wrote to me, saying that MOJO was not in any way a campaign group, but she advised that I could form a campaign. So with the help of the webmaster Mick Lynch I contacted the ‘Irish In Britain Representation Group’ or the IBRG to see if they would help.

“I went to London on December 12 and met Pat Reynolds, the IBRG Chairman, at Margaret’s house. We discussed a campaign plan, and agreed to think things over. Pat then spoke to Michelle on the phone, but she was now tied up with MOJO and told Pat that Barry already had their support. The campaign was hampered from the word go but I was determined to push ahead and managed to persuade Pat to remain on board.

“On January 25th 2003 the Justice for Barry or JfB campaign emerged. There was no fanfare but I knew that Barry and his mother were in favour of it and that was the relevant test. JfB was always a small loosely knit group and we did not normally seek or encourage people to join us, though we sought support for the cause. We feared police or journalist infiltration, and I would point to the group MOJO as justification of that caution. I believe that if the campaign rather than Barry had become the focus of attention it would not have stood the test of time, and we were in it for the long haul, in good times and bad. Mostly bad.

I designed a lea flet and Mick made up a prototype which I then got printed. The leaflet described Barry as a proud Englishman with Welsh Irish roots. He was described as not a devil, not a saint, but perhaps a Scapegoat. It then pointed to some shortcomings of the jury, and there followed a description of the case against Barry, and the scant forensic evidence. It also contained a list of people who felt or expressed CONCERN at the safety of Barry’s conviction. Eventually I had a short list, small in number but impressive in quality. The list consisted of Willie O Dea, TD. John McDonnell, MP. Professor Tim Valentine. Jim Nichol, Solicitor. John Witzenfeld. Solicitor. Pat Reynolds, Chairman IBRG. Dr Chris R Tame, Director Libertarian Alliance. Billy Power and Paddy Hill. (Birmingham Six) Andy Parr. (Cricket writer) Paul Foot, Journalist. Later I would get a few more names. They were Jeremy Corbyn, MP. John McManus, MOJO. LA Naylor, author of HOW MANY ARE INNOCENT. Senator Labhras O Murchu. Professor Elizabeth Loftus, ‘Memory expert’ who was concerned at witnesses recollections. Seamus Healy TD. Dan Neville TD. The leaflet ended with information on our website and a request for concerned people to write to their local politician or MEP, and a mention of Martin Jeremiah and his album Day Off For The Queen. I planned to distribute some at the London Saint Patrick’s Day Festival in March. I also sent some to politicians, the Home Office etc. Michelle phoned to tell me that she would also be in London, as MOJO were holding a public meeting in the House of Commons. I was not invited which I thought was a pity as we could perhaps have distributed some more of the leaflets.

Love Peace Justice. We distributed some JfB lea flets and then sat around the main stage and listened to the Bands. It reminded me of the pop festivals of the early 1970s as the sun shone down on the Tolpuddle fields. Many people carried anti Bush Blair and Iraq War banners saying BLiar Out. Later, when Martin and Vicky had departed on their coach back to West Sussex I visited the Martyr’s Museum which gives a good account of the birth of the English trade unions. I bought a Martyr’s T-Shirt and a badge and then I drove back to Dorchester. Next day I drove up to London. It was a brilliant sunny day as I drove along parts of England I had not seen before. I entered London via the M25, straight into a traffic jam. I stayed in London for two nights, but I felt a little ill from the moment I arrived. Maybe it was from the smog, or perhaps it was the comedown from the freedom of Tolpuddle. While in London I responded by e-mail to News of the World reporter Danielle Gusmaroldi who claimed she wanted to support Barry. She wanted to visit him but I advised her that he would probably not agree to that. I went home on Wednesday 21st. On August 1st Margaret told me that the reporter had written to Barry, and he was mad at me as a result. If I done nothing he would be mad at me, and if I did something he would also be mad with me. Sometimes one just can’t win. I went to see him on the 7th and we had a blazing row in which I threatened to walk away and pull the plug on the campaign and website. The row was quickly over and we had our tea and settled down for what turned out to be quite a good visit. I could appreciate how he felt about reporters, and I agreed with him when he said he didn’t want visits from them. After all they had portrayed him as some kind of a monster, and helped the Crown’s case against him, so how could he appreciate that we would now need to use them to try and turn around public opinion?[/i]

“On August 26th a new website www.barrygeorge.com replaced the original one which had run into a few problems. On September 5th I read an e-mail from Scott Lomax telling me about a BBC reporter, Raphael Rowe, who hoped to make a programme about Barry. I made some discreet enquiries and I was told that ‘He is a good guy, genuine’. I was happy with that recommendation and decided to contact him. I phoned him the next day and we had a good long chat. He was quite up to speed having looked at the websites and appeal court links. I agreed to contact Barry and his solicitor to see if they might cooperate with a TV programme. I later spoke to Pat Reynolds who was very enthusiastic when I mentioned Panorama, saying that Panorama could be seen as a turning point, the beginning of the end. I next visited Barry on Friday October 8th. I was suffering from a heavy cold, and family tensions were again running high, otherwise the visit went ok. On the way back to East Acton I saw on the headlines that the hostage Ken Bigley had been killed in Iraq. I got fish and chips and had quiet a miserable evening. ‘Why the hell am I doing this?’ I wondered, not for the first time.

That evening I met David James Smith at Starbucks in Hammersmith, where we discussed aspects of Jill Dando’s murder which concerned me. David believed that I was on the wrong track but I was convinced that more people could have known of Jill’s intention to visit her house on the day of her murder than we were led to believe. I also wondered how many people might have had keys to her house.

“In early January 2005 there was a story in a Sunday paper about Sir Cliff Richard’s religious views where he said that God would have to forgive Jill Dando’s killer. I wondered if Sir Cliff was referring to Barry. Cliff, who was one of my childhood favourite singers, had been routinely interviewed by the police in an effort to find clues which might help to solve the case.

“I drove to London on Monday the 31st. I had hoped to visit Barry on Tuesday and Margaret had promised that she would book it in good time. But she waited until Monday before phoning to book the visit. She then discovered that there were no visits allowed on Tuesdays. I was going to a public meeting in the House of Commons on Wednesday and so I had to wait until Thursday to visit him which lost me another precious day’s holiday. It was a short visit as his solicitor was also due to visit. Barry was somewhat stressed out as a result. He was concerned again that some of us would speak to the press. He got agitated when I told him that Raphael Rowe was interested in the Cutting Edge video, which I had in fact already loaned to Raphael along with a video of the trial reconstruction. He threatened to sue anybody who might use the Cutting Edge video. He then gave out to me for sending the cheque, saying that it had caused him stress. I was quite annoyed at his attitude. He then apologised for having a go at us, and asked if we could visit for his birthday. Sometimes he seemed as if he were still a kid, a large one.

“I e-mailed Raphael Rowe asking about news on a documentary. He replied that Barry and his solicitor had made demands that Raphael could not comply with. Supporting Barry was often a struggle against the odds, as he seemed to see problems with everything we did or tried to do for him. I felt that a good opportunity was in danger of being lost and I decided to keep in touch with Raphael in the hope of some development.

In late April JfB got an angry e-mail from the man known as Mr V. Scott Lomax featured V or Mr Vorms in his book ‘The Case of Barry George’, and on his website. It appeared that Scott may have sent Vorms something which he thought had come indirectly from me. I replied that JfB had not sent him anything either directly or indirectly. I and Michelle had discussed the article on Vorms and we both agreed that we would not want any other innocent person to be locked up. I wrote to the CCRC suggesting that Barry’s trial might have had a different outcome if the Archer allegations had been disclosed at the time of the trial. Somehow the Daily Mirror and Guardian got to know about my letter, (I didn’t tell them) and they published a couple of articles. But that had the positive effect of letting the authorities know that we were watching everything. I did not believe that Archer would have hired a hit-man and my submission was merely intended to help Barry. I had read Archer’s book FF8282 A Prison Diary and I was quite impressed at the fair unbiased way in which he had written about Barry.

May 25th was the fifth anniversary of Barry’s arrest. Scott Lomax had tried to get an article published, and a regional newspaper had reported that he believed that Jill Dando had been shot by mistake. I forwarded Scott’s article to a couple of papers, and I also sent a letter of mine to a few. The Limerick Leader’s Barry Duggan phoned me and suggested that they would like to run a story based on my letter. I agreed and to help things along I allowed the photo of Barry which had been taken in prison to be used, with his mother and me blanked out. To my surprise the story dominated the front page of the county edition, under the headline ‘Barry Did Not Kill Dando’. The photo accompanied the ‘exclusive’ article which was quite a scoop for Barry Duggan.

That evening he phoned to say that the Daily Mirror wanted to use the photo in a story, and wondered if I would sell it to them. I would not risk being accused of ‘cashing in’ and so while I agreed to them using the photo no money was exchanged. The proverbial hit the fan on Friday 28th as the Mirror, Irish Independent, Star and Sun ran the story that I believed Barry was innocent, but of course it was the photo which made the story. I could not fail to miss how RTE ignored the story in their reporting of the regional weekly papers leading stories though they would often cover that paper. Unfortunately in their report the Mirror incorrectly stated that I had taken the photo in prison, which would have been a serious breach of prison rules with negative implications for Barry. But otherwise I thought it was brilliant publicity for the cause. Unfortunately though the publicity was welcome I felt I had no choice but to make a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission about the Daily Mirror, as I believed that Barry could be in hot water with the prison due to the inaccurate reporting. I also realised that he would be hopping mad, and wondered if I would be allowed to visit him again. Michelle sent me a text message saying that she hadn’t seen the paper and that I should have warned her. Others broke off contact with me for a few months but I was happy that the message had gone out loud and clear that we still supported Barry and that the battle would go on. I could live with the unpopularity it brought.

On Sunday May 29th I phoned Margaret. After some small talk I asked her how Barry was. ‘Fine, he phoned earlier’. ‘Has he any news’ I probed? Eventually she said that he had seen the Mirror report. She said that he was upset by it, but that a ‘Screw’ was standing by him so he could not say much. I then told her what the papers had said and she agreed it was good that it was reported that we still believed he was innocent. I asked if I was still welcome to visit him and she said yes, he would soon be sending out a visiting order. ‘Oh God’, I thought; ‘now I will have to face the music’. I booked some holidays and my ticket planning to visit him on Sunday June 12th. But on the 2nd Margaret phoned and told me that my name was not on the VO. ’Fine’ I thought, ‘if he don’t want me to visit that’s ok by me’. She then mentioned how the Mirror had said that I had taken the photo of him in the prison. I explained to her about my complaint to his solicitor and to the Press Complaints Commission. Later on the PCC published the Mirror’s apology on their website. I was happy to let the matter rest there. I wrote a three line letter to Barry saying I would end the campaign and close the website if he didn’t want me to visit anymore. The JfB campaign could not be run without the blessing of the prisoner. The timing was bad as Scott Lomax had only recently agreed to be part of the campaign, but the ball was in Barry’s court.


“Michelle phoned me on the 5th. She was pleased with the article but said I should have warned her in advance. She thought that Barry would be annoyed at the use of his photo, how right she was. As regards being in the doghouse, she said she knew what that felt like. She agreed that it was important that the message was out that we still supported him; otherwise people would think that we no longer cared. In the evening Margaret phoned me. She had been to see Barry and again she had made the journey alone without any bother. She said that the whole visit had been taken up with him giving out about the article, even though she had nothing to do with it. She also said that he told her that I was not barred and that my name was omitted from the VO by mistake. He said that the prison officers had told him that I would have been allowed in if I had come, but I knew that was not true. Nobody is allowed in without a VO. I told Margaret that I would visit him in July. On Saturday July 2nd I visited him for what I later believed was the last time. I told Margaret that I would not stand for any big arguments and would leave if there were any. He was immediately hostile towards me. I saw red when he accused me of being a coward who used moral blackmail against him by threatening to stop the campaign and website. He was very angry over the three line letter which I had sent him. He remained hostile so I got up saying ‘I’m off, goodbye’. Unfortunately when I got to the door I couldn’t get out as I left my pass with Margaret and had to ask her to bring it. While I was waiting Margaret was engaged in an intense conversation with him. ‘If he leaves now he’ll never come back’ she said. She then called to me to come back to the table, and Barry beckoned at me to return. I relented, apologised to the friendly female prison officer and went back. Barry then apologised for ranting at me and we had some tea. The rest of the visit passed without incident but I was struck by how angry he could be. At one stage a couple of officers in dark blue uniforms entered the visiting hall and Barry said that they were the heavy mob, to deal with any aggro. He then said that he could not discuss certain matters with me as he feared that I might run to the press. I did not argue but then he said that if I did anything to damage his case he would be very angry and the anger he displayed this day would be nothing compared with what he could be like. It seemed like he was threatening me. When Margaret spoke about my three dogs he joked that I had three dogs in case he came calling.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 12:35:15 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #716 on: May 06, 2019, 12:38:45 PM »
Remember Michelle Diskin Bates claims here:

I’d underestimated Barry; he knew his Bible better than I’d realised. Of course, he had been studying the Bible in readiness to take his Believer’s Baptism at the time the police arrested him

So, according to Michelle Diskin Bates, her brother Barry George was capable of studying the bible in readiness to take his Believers Baptism before he was arrested and had retained that knowledge for 8 years, yet incapable of murdering Jill Dando. Do give over!

The Barry George Michelle Diskin Bates attempts to portray is very different to the Barry George his uncle Mike refers to in his book.

And very much suggests to me Barry George is indeed deceptive and chameleon like.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:14:22 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #717 on: May 06, 2019, 12:50:09 PM »
Mike Bourke re the Serbian conspiracy
”In an e-mail David James Smith seemed surprised when I said that the police had discounted the Serb line of inquiry at such an early stage. I decided to write to the CCRC about the Master Detective article. I sent them a copy explaining that I had already written to Barry’s solicitor, and that I was reluctant to delay their investigation further. Then I got the idea that I should make a complaint to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. We had never complained to the police despite us being unhappy with their conduct’. We did not see the point of complaining to the same police that charged him. It was the complaint by the de Menzes family that gave me the idea as until then I had never heard of the IPCC.

I ran up the complaint and submitted it on September 26th with a copy to Barry’s solicitor. In an e-mail David James Smith dismissed the story about the Serb arrest and said that the efit was of the wrong man. On October 1st Andy Gardner phoned me to say that the Sunday Mirror would be doing an article on Mr Vorms as they had interviewed him. I bought the paper and the story made interesting reading. Vorms claimed that he lied about where he was when Jill Dando was shot, his alibi being that he was working in a school at the time. He also said that he had done work on Jill’s garden and that he hated her. It was revealed that he was an ex soldier and had once been suspected of reactivating deactivated firearms. He claimed that a policeman and policewoman had visited him asking why he had changed his alibi, and as to what questions the original Dando police had asked him. This all sounded very strange though he denied killing Jill. He also said that he did not believe that Barry had done it. He thought that the killer would have known that Jill would be at her house on that day. I thought that he was probably correct in thinking that. On Thursday October 13th the Limerick Leader ran a front page story about the IPCC complaint. The Metropolitan Police wrote to me saying that they intended applying to the IPCC for a dispensation so as not to investigate it. Margaret again visited Barry in late October and he was again complaining about the press. He said that he didn’t care if we took off the website, and that his solicitor had said that the IPCC complaint would not help his appeal. I told Margaret that I could drop the complaint but she thought that it would not be a good idea. Michelle shared the same opinion, as did Scott Lomax. But the campaign had now run into difficulty as it appeared that it no longer enjoyed the blessing of Barry. I contacted his solicitor and Scot informing them that as I no longer enjoyed the approval of Barry the campaign would begin to wind down. I also asked Scott to remove references to a campaign. However I decided that I would see the IPCC complaint through, as whatever the real truth was I felt that the police had not acted properly in the Dando investigation and we had to try and expose that. I wrote to some politicians seeking their support for the inquiry and Willie O Dea, Jeremy Corbyn and Dave Horan responded. I also contacted the CCRC and the IPCC to inform them of each others involvement in the case. In late December the IPCC asked me if I would agree to a CCRC request for a copy of my complaint. I was then informed that the police request for a dispensation was rejected and so the investigation would go ahead in due course. It was a little victory but coupled with all the recent press reports there could now be no doubt that we were going to fight back hard. Margaret visited Barry on the 22nd. When I told her of the IPCC decision to investigate she complained that Barry would be upset as the people in the prison would be getting on to him about it. I replied that if we were to take too much notice of that we might just as well give up and accept his conviction.


“Early in the New Year I received a couple of e-mails inquiring about the campaign rather than about Barry which was unusual. Then Scott Lomax told me there had been a Sunday Express article which had quoted me. We contacted the reporter Camilla Tomlinson who sent us a copy. It was quite a good article which revealed that I was no longer welcome to visit Barry, and that Margaret was now his only regular visitor. On January 21st, I phoned Margaret. I asked her if Barry still put Michelle’s name on visiting orders. To my surprise she replied that he always put our three names on them. I had understood that my name had been removed, so perhaps Camilla’s article had influenced somebody. I got a letter from Willie O’Dea saying he had been in touch with the IPCC and that he was reasonably confident about the upcoming investigation. In March Margaret told me that Jeremy Moore had requested that we would not issue any stories to the media in the run up to the CCRC decision. I passed that on to David James Smith and to my surprise he replied that Jeremy Moore had phoned him and there was a possibility that he could visit Barry, he was due to meet Jeremy on the 24th to discuss the matter. On Saturday I received a text message telling me that Jeremy Moore had issued a press statement. It mentioned the two witnesses who apparently saw armed police at Barry’s flat, and that medical evidence would show that Barry could not have committed the crime. The big news was the release of another hostage, Norman Kember, in Iraq. The following Saturday the Irish Daily Mail ran a two page spread by Bob Woffinden in which he re-ran his Serb theory, that Jill Dando was executed as a result of the 1999 war in Kosovo. I was again contacted at work by reporters on Monday April 3rd. One was a researcher seeking to contact Jeremy Moore and Michelle with a view to making a TV documentary and I forwarded their contact details. On Saturday I got a text telling me that Michelle would be on the TV3 programme ‘The Big Bite’, along with John O Connor and Hazel Keirle. Michelle said that Barry had asked her to be his public ‘Face’. On April 13th I watched the programme. Michelle said she ‘knew’ that Barry was innocent; as she had asked him and he said he was. John O Connor, former head of the Flying Squad, explained why he thought it was a professional ‘hit’ probably done by a team. But he didn’t try to explain why the ‘hit’ didn’t take place in Chiswick where Jill lived or how the assassin could have known that she would be in Fulham on that day. But overall it was a good programme, positive.

“On the way I read an article in the Sunday Express by James Murray. The headline read ‘FAMILY FEAR FOR DANDO’s KILLER’. It had a large photo of Jill Dando and inserts of Barry and Susan. It was another Michelle / MOJO story claiming that Barry was not getting the correct medication for his epilepsy. Margaret refused to look at the article.

Barry was in good form though a little anxious as we were late, being almost the last visitors to arrive. He was unshaven, though I noticed that he had shoelaces. He said he agreed with the Express article provided it had been first approved by his solicitor. Margaret then told him that it was what he wanted and he said if it went through his solicitor it was OK, but if it didn’t there would be trouble. He then reminded me how angry he could be if things were done without his approval, referring to the awful argument we had back in July. I was annoyed but I said nothing. I was a little concerned that he was again trying to threaten me. That type of behaviour undermined my belief in him. He then spoke about the late David Dobbins and Eugene O Mahoney and the replica gun which they had taken from his flat. He claimed that the ‘gun’ had been intact when it was taken and so he thought the damage which resulted in the exposed spring had happened after it left his possession. He also denied that it was him in the photo of the man in the gas mask posing in the SAS style photo. I reminded him that the police said he took the photo and he said ‘how could I do that?’ I mentioned self timers and he said that his camera did not have one. He complained that for the second time a prison officer had removed his copy of the book ALL ABOUT JILL. He then spoke about the book Bent Coppers, which had a reference to Detective John Gallagher. He also said he would like to have a visit from David James Smith, Scott Lomax or Andy Parr, but Scott and Andy were never approved by the Home Office.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 12:58:51 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #718 on: May 06, 2019, 01:12:58 PM »
Further excerpts
”The report appeared on Sunday and referred to the Panorama programme which was being made by Raphael Rowe. It mentioned two jurors who were having doubts and who apparently were willing to appear on the programme. It also mentioned that FBI agents criticised the Met Polices handling of the single particle evidence. On Monday Raphael asked me not to discuss the programme with MOJO. I replied that I had fallen out with them in 2001 due to the News of the World article. But I feared that a last minute hitch might have negative consequences and so I texted Michelle asking her to urge discretion on MOJO. She replied that they hadn’t known about the programme. In mid-August following a BBC Radio 4 programme I contacted Professor Elizabeth Loftus PHD. Elizabeth is an American memory expert based in Stanford University. Elizabeth later expressed concerns over eyewitness testimony which largely helped to convict Barry. She agreed to be added to the list of ‘concerned’, her concern being based on witness identification. Her website reads: ‘Elizabeth Loftus studies human memory. Her experiments show how memories can be changed by things we are told. Facts, ideas, suggestions and other post-event information can modify our memories. The legal field, so reliant on memories has been a significant application of the memory research’. Unknown to us on September 4th a Forensic Science Service report prepared for the CCRC dismissed the FDR evidence which dammed Barry as inconclusive. In their opinion it provided no support for the prosecutions case that Barry had killed Jill Dando. It would be another year before we became aware of that. Raphael Rowe phoned me to say that the Panorama-George programme would be broadcast on September 5th. I took a day’s holiday to watch it because as luck would have it I was on a late shift and I feared I would not get to see it. At 07.33 Pat Reynolds sent me a text message to say that BBC Radio 4 News was reporting on the programme every half hour.
It was also on BBC News 24, and RTE Radio 2FM. For me at least it was exciting news as this was the biggest development since the 2002 appeal and I felt I had helped in some small way to make it happen. The Telegraph reported that the programme cost £ 250,000 to produce and took Raphael two years to investigate. In response to criticism of Raphael a spokesman for the BBC said: ‘Raphael is a first class investigative journalist with five years experience reporting from a range of BBC outlets… He is a wholly appropriate presenter for this programme, which meets the usual criteria for impartiality, fairness and accuracy’.
At 21.00 I settled down to watch Panorama. It began with Raphael saying to Barry over Margaret’s telephone ‘so you didn’t kill Jill?’ …’ course not, replied a surprised Barry. Then the photo of Barry which I got taken at Whitemoor was shown alongside the prison envelope in which it was returned to me after the prison refused to allow Barry to have it. CCTV footage of Jill Dando on her last journey and a clip of 29 Gowan Avenue was shown, and Helen Doble’s 999 phone call was played. It ran through Barry being questioned, his visit to HAFAD and Susan Bicknell’s meeting with him. It was Susan’s first day at HAFAD and she recorded the time of his visit. Two days later Barry called back asking staff to recall the exact time of his earlier visit. A week later Susan typed an account of her meeting with Barry for the police and she wrote the time of his visit as 11.50. That seriously undermined the Crown’s case that Barry shot Jill Dando after 11.30, returned home by a circuitous route to change his clothes and then went to HAFAD. There would not be enough time to do that and be at HAFAD before 12.10 according to Raphael who walked the Crown’s suggested route. But Susan revealed that at court she was unwell and suffered a breakdown shortly afterwards. She felt upset that her illness might have caused the jury to doubt her and that they might have convicted Barry as an indirect result of her illness.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #719 on: May 06, 2019, 01:19:09 PM »
Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder

Grandiose sense of self-importance


Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur

Needs constant praise and admiration

Sense of entitlement

Exploits others without guilt or shame

Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder.htm/

All traits that I observe in Barry George and indeed his sister.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes