Author Topic: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.  (Read 724 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 06:13:51 PM »
It's all a matter of perpective. Less than 15% of population is of ethnic minority [give or take so lets not debate whether its 12% or 18% it makes no never mind].
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/ethnicityandnationalidentityinenglandandwales/2012-12-11

Where I live the response now would be blimey as many as that.
Where I lived for the previous 25 years the response would be blimey as few as that.

Looking at comments on another thread about "grooming"; it has been a known problem for nearly 30 years so The Times should not be buffing its lapels, more asking where it has had it's head most of that time.

But what relates the grooming scandals to the EU?

Offline John

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2018, 04:28:57 AM »
Conversely, do you think all UK expats (why on earth ARE UK citizens called "expats" as opposed to
"emigrants"?), who've worked and settled in other EU countries, including retirees, be deported back to the UK?

My experience of Brits abroad is the majority of them are of independent means and do not live off the State unlike economic migrants to the UK who bring nothing with them but take all they can get.

There is no reason why skilled migrants cannot come and work in the UK but it should be by temporary visa only.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 04:32:13 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2018, 09:17:37 PM »
But what relates the grooming scandals to the EU?


Nothing.
Controlling immigration from the EU will not affect the immigration of those shown mostly responsible for grooming as they are not subject to much control being members of the Commonwealth.
Go to Stoke,Rotherham,Rochdale,Luton and ask how long grooming has been a known problem amongst the general population then draw your own conclusions.
When you can walk the rice paper without leaving a trace, you will be ready to leave the monastery and go out into the world, Grasshopper.

Offline Carana

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2018, 05:47:13 AM »
My experience of Brits abroad is the majority of them are of independent means and do not live off the State unlike economic migrants to the UK who bring nothing with them but take all they can get.

There is no reason why skilled migrants cannot come and work in the UK but it should be by temporary visa only.

Hmmm.

   EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive
Academics find UK-born population represents a net cost

Helen Warrell in London November 5, 2014


European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of £20bn, say researchers.

The research by academics at University College London comes at a time of fierce debate over freedom of movement within the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Key findings

In 2015-16, EEA nationals paid £15.5 billion more Income Tax and National
Insurance than they took out in tax credits and Child Benefit.
This is £1.9 billion
higher than in 2014

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/735522/Income_Tax__NICs__tax_credits_and_Child_Benefit_statistics_for_EEA_nationals_2015_to_2016.pdf

Full fact:
https://fullfact.org/immigration/how-immigrants-affect-public-finances/

What qualifies as "skilled"? Why temporary visas only? By that rationale, a top cancer specialist could work in the UK, but only temporarily, preferably leaving spouse and any kids back home.

If there's a shortage of, e.g., plumbers or construction workers, would they qualify as skilled or not?

What about people who do all the unskilled sh*ty jobs that nationals don't want to do?

Offline Carana

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2018, 06:51:27 AM »
It's all a matter of perpective. Less than 15% of population is of ethnic minority [give or take so lets not debate whether its 12% or 18% it makes no never mind].
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/ethnicityandnationalidentityinenglandandwales/2012-12-11

Where I live the response now would be blimey as many as that.
Where I lived for the previous 25 years the response would be blimey as few as that.

Looking at comments on another thread about "grooming"; it has been a known problem for nearly 30 years so The Times should not be buffing its lapels, more asking where it has had it's head most of that time.

Agree. I can understand the perception that there are areas of cities where a national can feel they've landed on a different continent and a certain amount of resentment at that. At the same time, my observation is that at least some countries with "ghetto" clusters tend to be former colonial powers and / or countries that reached out for cheap labour from particular countries and tended to be "parked" en masse in particular areas, presumably close to where the industries needed them.

However, in a city that I know well, in a country with no  former colonial ties, there are immigrants from well over 100 countries (admittedly with a higher proportion of a few) but spread out throughout the city. The "ghetto" phenomenon simply doesn't exist, which has led me to think that the issue is not the foreigners themselves, but the lack of an integration policy.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 08:48:17 AM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2018, 08:43:31 AM »
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2018, 02:48:53 PM »
Agree. I can understand the perception that there are areas of cities where a national can feel they've landed on a different continent and a certain amount of resentment at that. At the same time, my observation is that at least some countries with "ghetto" clusters tend to be former colonial powers and / or countries that reached out for cheap labour from particular countries and tended to be "parked" en masse in particular areas, presumably close to where the industries needed them.

However, in a city that I know well, in a country with no  former colonial ties, there are immigrants from well over 100 countries (admittedly with a higher proportion of a few) but spread out throughout the city. The "ghetto" phenomenon simply doesn't exist, which has led me to think that the issue is not the foreigners themselves, but the lack of an integration policy.

I would not disagree.That in part because the government of whatever flavour of has a history of dumping the responsiblity onto local/district councils which are ill equipped to deal with it; and has done for years. Another problem has been our willingness to encourage the wholesale import of other cultures in the name of political correctness which has disenfranchised some of the younger element. For example coming to or growing up in a western society which has promised freedom to the immigrant but allowed the old restrictive practices of the "village elderman" to prevail. It's easy to see how the younger element will be pissed off with both sides.
When you can walk the rice paper without leaving a trace, you will be ready to leave the monastery and go out into the world, Grasshopper.

Offline Planck

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2018, 11:38:59 AM »
I don't think the lack of integration policy is to blame here. You cannot integrate people who do not wish to be integrated. It's as simple as that.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2018, 05:52:52 PM »
I don't think the lack of integration policy is to blame here. You cannot integrate people who do not wish to be integrated. It's as simple as that.
You could start by banning all religious schools and make a secular education for all children in this country mandatory, with no religious garb or symbols permitted to be worn by children.
"Oh dear. Madeleine McCann trending. That's twitterspeak for 'And now, the absolute worst of humanity.'" -
David Baddiel

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2018, 01:18:17 PM »
Oh dear Carana.  John and Angelo have made up their minds that immigration is a terribly bad thing and must be stopped.  Please don’t confuse them with the facts. 

The slight flaw in their argument is of course that virtually everyone is an immigrant.  Who are the native people of the United Kingdom? Over the centuries waves of immigration from (off the top of my head) Rome,  Gaul,saxony, Germany,  east Europe, Scandinavia, China, Indian sub continent, Middle East, Vietnam, Africa, not to mention the mix of race and religion that all add something to the mix.  This has resulted in Britain becoming a throving, diverse society rich in culture, art and trading and academic and research ability. 

The ‘little england’ mentality of demanding we  pull up the drawbridge and say ‘no more furriners’ is laughable.  And will result in a loss of the very thing that makes this country great. 

How many generations do we need to go back to find where John and Angelos forebears emigrated from. 

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2018, 07:50:24 AM »
Oh dear Carana.  John and Angelo have made up their minds that immigration is a terribly bad thing and must be stopped.  Please don’t confuse them with the facts. 

The slight flaw in their argument is of course that virtually everyone is an immigrant.  Who are the native people of the United Kingdom? Over the centuries waves of immigration from (off the top of my head) Rome,  Gaul,saxony, Germany,  east Europe, Scandinavia, China, Indian sub continent, Middle East, Vietnam, Africa, not to mention the mix of race and religion that all add something to the mix.  This has resulted in Britain becoming a throving, diverse society rich in culture, art and trading and academic and research ability. 

The ‘little england’ mentality of demanding we  pull up the drawbridge and say ‘no more furriners’ is laughable.  And will result in a loss of the very thing that makes this country great. 

How many generations do we need to go back to find where John and Angelos forebears emigrated from.
”Angelo” - isn’t he from high up a mountain in Mexico?
"Oh dear. Madeleine McCann trending. That's twitterspeak for 'And now, the absolute worst of humanity.'" -
David Baddiel

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Migrants are slowly changing the face of our great cities.
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2018, 09:35:44 AM »
”Angelo” - isn’t he from high up a mountain in Mexico?

Quite possibly.   8(0(*