Author Topic: Other cases where adoptions have gone horribly wrong resulting in murder  (Read 15107 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Your question is neither here nor there Holly and is completely irrelevant to debate.

I doubt those that work in related fields will agree with your sentiments.

But do you recognise how your email to Kerry Daynes (and other related forum posts) focus on June and Sheila, yet you appear oblivious to Jeremy Bamber, presumably because his annual prison assessments suggest he isn't a psychopath nor does he suffer from mental health.

I go where the evidence takes me Stephanie.  Nothing more nothing less.  In the same way I reject David's FEB and a lot of other stuff put out there by supporters I disagree with your claims that JB suffers or has suffered from some mental illness or personality disorder.  Why?  Because you have no evidence to back up your assertions.  Claims that JB is withholding all manner of records just doesn't wash with me.  Much the same way I don't believe there's a mountain of evidence under pii that could assist the defence. 

In reality Holly Jeremy Bamber has not been transparent.

In reality you have no evidence to suggest he hasn't been. 
Whilst he has suggested his 27 assessments showed him to not be a psychopath and has placed this info the public domain in order to gain support, none of us are aware of what formed the basis of his assessments nor indeed how he chose to answer the questions posed by the assessor.

Stephanie do you honestly think the likes of Prof Egan would make the following assessment without going through all JB's records?

https://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

So where is Jeremy Bamber in your observations?

Normal

What about his quite apparent personality disorder?

What PD?  Stephanie JB has never been diagnosed with any PD or mental illness but if it makes you happy to think otherwise be my guest. 

Why do you ONLY focus on Sheila and June?

That's a difficult question.  Do you think it might be because they were both diagnosed with mental illnesses and both spent time in psychiatric hospitals? 

Stephanie I go where the evidence takes me. 
[/quote]
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Normal

What PD?  Stephanie JB has never been diagnosed with any PD or mental illness but if it makes you happy to think otherwise be my guest. 

That's a difficult question.  Do you think it might be because they were both diagnosed with mental illnesses and both spent time in psychiatric hospitals? 

Stephanie I go where the evidence takes me.

What, in your opinion, is normal Holly? Define a normal Jeremy Bamber.

Do you think it's normal for someone to burgle their families own business and stage the crime scene?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas


I go where the evidence takes me Stephanie.  Nothing more nothing less. 

Your evidence takes you to where you want it to take you because you refuse to accept or indeed acknowledge Jeremy Bambers behaviour before the murders, leading up to his trial, during his trial and the decades following.

It's all there in black and white but you need to be objective and reasoned in order to recognise it.
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

That's a difficult question.  Do you think it might be because they were both diagnosed with mental illnesses and both spent time in psychiatric hospitals? 

Again Holly this is where you are unable to remain objective or reasoned.

First off, June Bamber was a victim. Full stop.

Being diagnosed with a mental illness and having spent time in a psychiatric hospital, did not make Sheila Caffell a murderer.

If you are suggesting Sheila Caffell was affected by her mothers mental health then you cannot rule out the fact Jeremy Bamber wasn't affected either.

Just because he claims to have no mental health issues or a personality disorder, does not make it a fact.

Prison psychologists and indeed prison psychiatrists regularly get their diagnosis WRONG. Off the top of my head, Simon Hall is one example, John Worboys is another.

Maybe you and the rest of Bambers supporters should look into the facts of what makes up a UK prisoners psychology assessment, instead of taking the word of a man who we know for a fact robbed his murdered family members 5 months before they were murdered.

You claim you do not know what a pre trial assessment is and because you don't know what one is you dismiss it.

That's not following the evidence Holly.
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

What, in your opinion, is normal Holly? Define a normal Jeremy Bamber.

As normal as me and the next person. 

Do you think it's normal for someone to burgle their families own business and stage the crime scene?

I'm not condoning what JB and JM did but is it normal for a majority shareholder to say you can have a raise when you learn to live properly?   Family businesses can be complicated eg The Brothers and Dallas.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Again Holly this is where you are unable to remain objective or reasoned.

First off, June Bamber was a victim. Full stop.

Being diagnosed with a mental illness and having spent time in a psychiatric hospital, did not make Sheila Caffell a murderer.

If you are suggesting Sheila Caffell was affected by her mothers mental health then you cannot rule out the fact Jeremy Bamber wasn't affected either.

SC was dependent on June leading up to her breakdown in 1959.  June's next breakdown was 1982.  JB escaped all of this.

Just because he claims to have no mental health issues or a personality disorder, does not make it a fact.

Prison psychologists and indeed prison psychiatrists regularly get their diagnosis WRONG. Off the top of my head, Simon Hall is one example, John Worboys is another.

Maybe you and the rest of Bambers supporters should look into the facts of what makes up a UK prisoners psychology assessment, instead of taking the word of a man who we know for a fact robbed his murdered family members 5 months before they were murdered.

You claim you do not know what a pre trial assessment is and because you don't know what one is you dismiss it.

That's not following the evidence Holly.

The fact JB hasn't been diagnosed with any PD or mental illness doesn't make him not guilty of the crimes he was charged with. 

I don't need to know about JB's prison file etc to believe if there was anything untoward Prof Egan wouldn't have committed to the following statement:

https://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

In the same way that I rely upon Dr Vanezis over David's claims.  I rely upon Prof Egan over your claims. 

I go where the evidence takes me. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

As normal as me and the next person. 

I don't know you are normal Holly. None of us know you are normal.

Infact, your numerous posts over all these many years, along with your behaviour (that you regularly tell us about in your many posts), appears to suggest otherwise:

i.e. emailing numerous experts in their field, people you've never met or are ever likely to meet, but you've seen on TV or read about, in order to give your lay persons opinion on a convicted mass murderer you have equally never met or are ever likely to meet.

I would not call this normal behaviour Holly.

Maybe it's your perception of yourself that makes you perceive Jeremy Bamber to be normal? Have you ever considered this?


« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 11:38:01 AM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

SC was dependent on June leading up to her breakdown in 1959.  June's next breakdown was 1982.  JB escaped all of this.

The fact JB hasn't been diagnosed with any PD or mental illness doesn't make him not guilty of the crimes he was charged with. 

I don't need to know about JB's prison file etc to believe if there was anything untoward Prof Egan wouldn't have committed to the following statement:

https://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

In the same way that I rely upon Dr Vanezis over David's claims.  I rely upon Prof Egan over your claims. 

I go where the evidence takes me.

Where is your evidence to support your claim that "JB escaped all of this?"

Please point me to the part of prof Egans report where he states that JB was not affected by Junes mental health.

The fact is Holly, prof Egan, as you know, has not taken this into consideration.

That's just one fact. How many others facts do you think prof Egan failed to take into consideration?

Please provide me with prof Egans full report, NOT the edited version Bamber has placed into the public domain.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 11:33:22 AM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Popular belief has always been that Jeremy Bamber has psychopathy. 

WHERE DID THIS BELIEF ORIGINATE

In truth Jeremy Bamber has been examined by over 27 different psychologists, none of them have found him to have a personality disorder of any variety, nor any mental illness, nor any indication of psychopathy.

WHERE ARE THE 27 DIFFERENT ASSESSMENTS? THE PUBLIC HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM BECAUSE JEREMY BAMBER HAS NEVER DISLCOSED THEM

WHY SHOULD WE TAKE THE WORD OF A CONVICTED MASS MURDERER WHO ADMITTED TO ROBBING HIS FAMILIES BUSINESS AND STAGIMG THE CRIME SCENE 5 MONTHS BEFORE THE MURDERS

Jeremy Bamber is and always has been psychologically well adjusted especially considering the psychological trauma he suffered as a result of losing his family in such tragic circumstance, being hounded by the media and being falsely accused and convicted as a family annihilator.

SPECULATION PROVES NOTHING

Professor Vincent Egan, BSc. (Hons).,Ph.D., D. Clin. Psy. Chartered Clinical Psychologist, Chartered Forensic Psychologist, Senior Lecturer in Forensic Psychology, University of Leicester, recently carried out a psychological assessment of Jeremy Bamber for a category A risk assessment review and he stated in his 14 page report:

WHERE IS THE 14 PAGE REPORT?

AND WHAT WAS THE REPORT BASED ON?

 “Jeremy has been previously assessed using the PCL-R and found non-psychopathic. My own assessment also found he did not meet caseness for clinical psychopathy, or even mild psychopathy.” He goes on to state “He did not meet caseness for any of the personality disorder dimensions.”

WHAT WAS PROF EGAN'S REPORT BASED ON?

It has also been further suggested that Jeremy Bamber has used “Impression Management” to dupe the assessor into believing he has no psychopathy, nevertheless Professor Egan applied further tests to take this into account and noted:

WHAT TESTS DID PROF EGAN APPLY?

“To examine whether Jeremy was exaggerating how he presented himself, he also completed the BIDR (Paulus, 1998). On this measure Jeremy was within the low-normal range for impression management and self-deception enhancement. These results suggest he was not presenting himself in an excessively anodyne way to bias the assessor.”

WHAT DID PROF EGAN BASE HIS FINDINGS ON? WHERE IS THE COMPLETED BIDR?

Professor Egan comments, “These findings suggest it is hard to sustain the view that Jeremy Bamber is so expert in deceptive self-presentation as to maintain this front for over a variety of different assessors, different assessment instruments and different times” 

WHAT DIFFERENT ASSESSORS, ASSESSMENTS, INSTRUMENTS AND DIFFERENT TIMES?

MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT WAS THE BASIS FOR EACH REPORT, OR WERE THEY ALL BASED ON THE SAME THEME?

The assessment concludes with “Dangerous violent persons tend to be angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control, and none of these qualities appear to reflect Mr Bamber. Quite what the motive would be for something like the index offence being carried out by Mr Bamber again is very speculative, as is the proposition in the first place.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? ISNT THIS YET FURTHER SPECULATION ON PROF EGANS BEHALF?

UNLESS JEREMY BAMBER CONFESSES TO HIS CRIMES - ALL HIS REPORTS ARE BASED ON HIS CLAIMS OF INNOCENCE, IN OTHER WORDS BAMBERS REPORTS ARE BASED ON HIS DENIAL
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

So bottom line is ALL of Jeremy Bambers assessments are based on his DENIAL, making them ALL meaningless!

But if we are to go back to before his trial, it was found by his defence team that he suffered from psychopathy.
 
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

SC was dependent on June leading up to her breakdown in 1959.  June's next breakdown was 1982.  JB escaped all of this.

The fact JB hasn't been diagnosed with any PD or mental illness doesn't make him not guilty of the crimes he was charged with. 

I don't need to know about JB's prison file etc to believe if there was anything untoward Prof Egan wouldn't have committed to the following statement:

https://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

In the same way that I rely upon Dr Vanezis over David's claims.  I rely upon Prof Egan over your claims. 

I go where the evidence takes me.

Holly there are no reports based on a guilty Jeremy Bamber, just biased reports based on his denial!

I cannot fathom why you and his supporters cannot see this?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Holly there are no reports based on a guilty Jeremy Bamber, just biased reports based on his denial!

I cannot fathom why you and his supporters cannot see this?

Research into these facts is minimal.

The UK needs more studies carried out, similar to the one below, in particular relating to prisoners who claim they are an alleged miscarriage of justice.

"Sex offenders in denial: a study into a group of forensic psychologists' attitudes regarding the corresponding impact upon risk assessment calculations and parole eligibility
"A considerable proportion of convicted sex offenders maintain a stance of innocence and thus do not engage in recommended treatment programmes. As a result, such offenders are often deemed to have outstanding criminogenic needs which may negatively impact upon risk assessment procedures and parole eligibility. This paper reports on a study that aimed to investigate a group of forensic psychologists' attitudes regarding the impact of denial on risk assessment ratings as well as parole eligibility. Participants completed a confidential open-ended questionnaire. Analysis indicated that considerable variability exists among forensic psychologists in regards to their beliefs about the origins of denial and what impact such denial should have on post-prison release eligibility. In contrast, there was less disparity regarding beliefs about the percentage of innocent yet incarcerated sex offenders. This paper also reviews current understanding regarding the impact of denial on recidivism as well as upon general forensic assessments.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 12:32:16 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

I don't know you are normal Holly. None of us know you are normal.

Infact, your numerous posts over all these many years, along with your behaviour (that you regularly tell us about in your many posts), appears to suggest otherwise:

i.e. emailing numerous experts in their field, people you've never met or are ever likely to meet, but you've seen on TV or read about, in order to give your lay persons opinion on a convicted mass murderer you have equally never met or are ever likely to meet.

I would not call this normal behaviour Holly.

Maybe it's your perception of yourself that makes you perceive Jeremy Bamber to be normal? Have you ever considered this?

Stephanie you have been advised previously to refrain from making comments of a personal nature. 

Kerry Daynes has never met with JB.  A bit like an optician giving an opinion without examining the eyes.  Or a dentist proposing treatment without examining the teeth. Or a heart surgeon making a diagnosis without even examining the heart/patient.  KD's opinion is worthless. 

I also sent emails to two other psychologists who contributed to the docu/dramas: David Holmes and Katherine Ramsland.  The former I spoke with on the phone.  The latter I received an email from.  Both blamed the producers.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Stephanie you have been advised previously to refrain from making comments of a personal nature. 

Kerry Daynes has never met with JB.  A bit like an optician giving an opinion without examining the eyes.  Or a dentist proposing treatment without examining the teeth. Or a heart surgeon making a diagnosis without even examining the heart/patient.  KD's opinion is worthless. 

I also sent emails to two other psychologists who contributed to the docu/dramas: David Holmes and Katherine Ramsland.  The former I spoke with on the phone.  The latter I received an email from.  Both blamed the producers.

Let's be clear here Holly. Your email to Kerry Daynes was extremely personal. You chose to post it on a public forum. I chose to respond to your post and give you my opinion., not dissimilar to what you did with Kerry Daynes.

What's the problem? Why do you appear to be unable to take constructive critism? Why do you have to make things personal?

You stated:
As normal as me and the next person. 

I replied with what I did based on your above post. I follow the evidence. Nothing more nothing less.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 02:29:57 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation