If Jeremy Bamber cannot persuade us of his innocence...

[APRIL]

That's a good question and one that puzzles me too. I think some campaign because they have some sort of police grudge and want to show them up to be incompetent. Some like bandwaggons, some have only looked at very slanted and biased evidence. However I do feel that a large number choose to believe in an innocent Bamber because they are fundamentally good people and it is easier for a good, socially adjusted and empathetic human to accept mental illness as a driver rather than cold, hard and unfeeling greed. My theory anyway and I'm no psychologist!

Haha! Not so much of a question that it prevents you from hitting the nail very squarely and soundly on the head, Daisy. For some, I believe that bringing down the whole pack of playing cards, from the government -or, perhaps, even higher- is their raison d'etre. It seems anything to do with authority has to go and if they can get various high profile prisoners released on the way -and add to the ensuing chaos- so much the better. I am truly sorry for any genuine MoJ's but I don't believe Jeremy is such...............nor do I believe -as has been suggested by several- it's right to release those convicted on the grounds that some think they 'might' be innocent. I recall the local papers reporting -verbatim- what Jeremy had said, post murders. They were full how how his, just released from hospital, mentally ill sister had killed his family. At the time I believed it. It was indeed easier to blame, and subsequently forgive someone with a mental illness. It meant I could ignore the elephant in the room -adoption.

[Nicholas]

Haha! Not so much of a question that it prevents you from hitting the nail very squarely and soundly on the head, Daisy. For some, I believe that bringing down the whole pack of playing cards, from the government -or, perhaps, even higher- is their raison d'etre. It seems anything to do with authority has to go and if they can get various high profile prisoners released on the way -and add to the ensuing chaos- so much the better. I am truly sorry for any genuine MoJ's but I don't believe Jeremy is such...............nor do I believe -as has been suggested by several- it's right to release those convicted on the grounds that some think they 'might' be innocent. I recall the local papers reporting -verbatim- what Jeremy had said, post murders. They were full how how his, just released from hospital, mentally ill sister had killed his family. At the time I believed it. It was indeed easier to blame, and subsequently forgive someone with a mental illness. It meant I could ignore the elephant in the room -adoption.

"The number of adopted children who have turned to murder is astounding, leading some psychologists to believe that some of the feelings that come with being adopted can lead to murderous thoughts. In fact, adopted men and women are 15 times more likely to kill their parents. Is there a link between being adopted and murder? If so, what are the circumstances that make an adopted child want to kill? https://m.ranker.com/list/serial-killers-who-were-adopted/ranker-crime


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/KILLER+BAMBER'S+BROKEN+BOTTLE+JAIL+ATTACK.-a061330122
"Mass killer Jeremy Bamber launched a vicious attack on a fellow prisoner with a broken bottle.
He rammed the jagged edges of a sauce bottle into his victim's face and tried to cut off his nose and ears. The inmate's scalp was also cut open.

[Nicholas]

"The number of adopted children who have turned to murder is astounding, leading some psychologists to believe that some of the feelings that come with being adopted can lead to murderous thoughts. In fact, adopted men and women are 15 times more likely to kill their parents. Is there a link between being adopted and murder? If so, what are the circumstances that make an adopted child want to kill? https://m.ranker.com/list/serial-killers-who-were-adopted/ranker-crime


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/KILLER+BAMBER'S+BROKEN+BOTTLE+JAIL+ATTACK.-a061330122
"Mass killer Jeremy Bamber launched a vicious attack on a fellow prisoner with a broken bottle.
He rammed the jagged edges of a sauce bottle into his victim's face and tried to cut off his nose and ears. The inmate's scalp was also cut open.

I wonder what the prison psychologists and Professor Egan had to say about Bamber's attack on a fellow inmate?

"The Home Office last night pledged an inquiry in the attack by Bamber, jailed for life after slaughtering his family

What's the betting he forgot to tell them

"A convicted killer must remain classed as a highly dangerous "category A" prisoner, the High Court has ruled.
In 1986 Jeremy Bamber was convicted of murdering five members of his family at their home in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex.
Bamber, serving five life sentences, had attempted to have his security status downgraded to category B.
But Mr Justice Stanley Burnton said the crimes for which Bamber was convicted were "severe in the extreme" and rejected his application.
Lawyers for Bamber applied to the High Court to quash the decision on the grounds that he posed a lower risk, and that downgrading could lead to him enjoying a less severe prison regime, even though he might never be let out of jail.
His barrister Flo Krause argued there had been a failure to carry out the necessary balancing of risk, and that Bamber was wrongly being kept in category A because he maintained his innocence.
'Killed for money'
Rejecting the application, Mr Justice Stanley Burnton conceded that convicted killers who refused to accept their guilt created a quandary when it came to assessments of how dangerous they might be.
But the judge, sitting at the High Court in London, said the crimes for which Bamber was convicted were "severe in the extreme".
The review team had not been perverse to accept psychological reports showing category A status was justified, said the judge. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/7335058.stm

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9376.msg458174#msg458174

So bottom line is ALL of Jeremy Bambers assessments are based on his DENIAL, making them ALL meaningless!
But if we are to go back to before his trial, it was found by his defence team that he suffered from psychopathy.

[Samson]

That's a good question and one that puzzles me too. I think some campaign because they have some sort of police grudge and want to show them up to be incompetent. Some like bandwaggons, some have only looked at very slanted and biased evidence. However I do feel that a large number choose to believe in an innocent Bamber because they are fundamentally good people and it is easier for a good, socially adjusted and empathetic human to accept mental illness as a driver rather than cold, hard and unfeeling greed. My theory anyway and I'm no psychologist!

I sometimes like to ask if guilt is so certain it would be ok to execute in a hanging era. This is a reasonable exercise to establish if a little doubt might exist, without debating the merit of capital punishment.
Obviously Bamber would have been hanged pre 1960.

[Caroline]

I sometimes like to ask if guilt is so certain it would be ok to execute in a hanging era. This is a reasonable exercise to establish if a little doubt might exist, without debating the merit of capital punishment.
Obviously Bamber would have been hanged pre 1960.

Don't agree with CP but do believe that Bamber is guilty, my not believing in CP doesn't influence my thoughts about Bamber.

[Alice]

I'm not a supporter of CP either but in an era of hanging I think Bamber would have been getting the rope.

[Samson]

I'm not a supporter of CP either but in an era of hanging I think Bamber would have been getting the rope.

Yes indeed, premeditated slaughter of a family including young children for the estate.
There would be no debate and unanimous approval by the community.

What would happen is something different. The evidence and mendacity would be properly accounted for, and intelligent people in the community would not just prevent the execution, but prove that it was murder suicide.

People on this forum should bring their best case to the wholly neutral IA thread, and see how that works.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2931

No one argues for guilt any more in that bastion of sanity, but it's  been fun watching them try in the past.

[Alice]

That's what I have tried to do and every time the evidence tells me he must be guilty. The phone calls or lack of are for me the key. Nevill was I believe shot and fled to the kitchen wounded, the gunman (Jeremy) would have to reload at this point and Nevill was beaten trying to prevent this. The phone is unmarked and I see no window for him to call anyone. Jeremy's actions after supposedly getting this call defy anything a normal person would do when alerted to a family crisis of the highest order. Much as I would like to believe it was the work of a mad daughter and not a money crazed son, I can never get past these sticking points.

[Caroline]

Yes indeed, premeditated slaughter of a family including young children for the estate.
There would be no debate and unanimous approval by the community.

What would happen is something different. The evidence and mendacity would be properly accounted for, and intelligent people in the community would not just prevent the execution, but prove that it was murder suicide.

People on this forum should bring their best case to the wholly neutral IA thread, and see how that works.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2931

No one argues for guilt any more in that bastion of sanity, but it's  been fun watching them try in the past.

The IA board is full of people who are heavily into MOJ and seem to think everyone is innocent. They don't know this case very well and they give a platform to the more zelot laiden supporters and they hang on their every word. There is no openmindedness and as far as this case is concerned - it is NOT neutral!

[Caroline]

That's what I have tried to do and every time the evidence tells me he must be guilty. The phone calls or lack of are for me the key. Nevill was I believe shot and fled to the kitchen wounded, the gunman (Jeremy) would have to reload at this point and Nevill was beaten trying to prevent this. The phone is unmarked and I see no window for him to call anyone. Jeremy's actions after supposedly getting this call defy anything a normal person would do when alerted to a family crisis of the highest order. Much as I would like to believe it was the work of a mad daughter and not a money crazed son, I can never get past these sticking points.

Totally agree and his timings just don't work. Some people argue that we should ignore his timings which is remarkable!

[Samson]

The IA board is full of people who are heavily into MOJ and seem to think everyone is innocent. They don't know this case very well and they give a platform to the more zelot laiden supporters and they hang on their every word. There is no openmindedness and as far as this case is concerned - it is NOT neutral!

Cases are selected that are miscarriages.
Charlie Wilkes in the last couple of years has started threads on Isaiah Fowler, Charles Grellet-Tinner and Anjelika Graswald. All 3 have been freed since. Chris Tapp is another of his cases, freed. Russ Fariah has been freed and Kirsten Lobato.
No case survives scrutiny of impartial discussion where there is no axe to grind, and Jeremy Bamber is the same sure thing, innocent. He will be freed, and the sooner the better for you taxpayers. Give him his money and jail the relatives and Mugford for perjury. It can happen.

[APRIL]

Cases are selected that are miscarriages.
Charlie Wilkes in the last couple of years has started threads on Isaiah Fowler, Charles Grellet-Tinner and Anjelika Graswald. All 3 have been freed since. Chris Tapp is another of his cases, freed. Russ Fariah has been freed and Kirsten Lobato.
No case survives scrutiny of impartial discussion where there is no axe to grind, and Jeremy Bamber is the same sure thing, innocent. He will be freed, and the sooner the better for you taxpayers. Give him his money and jail the relatives and Mugford for perjury. It can happen.

Perhaps, more correctly, it should be worded "Cases believed, by some, to be miscarriages, are selected".

[Samson]

Perhaps, more correctly, it should be worded "Cases believed, by some, to be miscarriages, are selected".

Not really, I have seen threads started and that have died quickly, when the evidence can show a data point that can't b e skirted. A dna match, a false alibi and so on. Bamber is seen to be a certainty where it looks just like a suicide. Working from there, all the objections drop away. Sheila was never in a fight because she shot one adult,then another then the kids, and then herself. So look at her found state in that light. It couldn't be plainer.

Jeremy has a fine alibi and is forensically clean.

[Samson]

Not really, I have seen threads started and that have died quickly, when the evidence can show a data point that can't be skirted. A dna match, a false alibi and so on. The Bamber case is seen to be a certainty where it looks just like a suicide. Working from there, all the objections drop away. Sheila was never in a fight because she shot one adult, then another then the kids, and then herself. So look at her found state in that light. It couldn't be plainer.

Jeremy has a fine alibi and is forensically clean.

[Caroline]

Cases are selected that are miscarriages.
Charlie Wilkes in the last couple of years has started threads on Isaiah Fowler, Charles Grellet-Tinner and Anjelika Graswald. All 3 have been freed since. Chris Tapp is another of his cases, freed. Russ Fariah has been freed and Kirsten Lobato.
No case survives scrutiny of impartial discussion where there is no axe to grind, and Jeremy Bamber is the same sure thing, innocent. He will be freed, and the sooner the better for you taxpayers. Give him his money and jail the relatives and Mugford for perjury. It can happen.

I'm not sure why you use Charlie to back up your arguments, no one knows who he is. Also, he didn't start  a thread on Jeremy Bamber and none of the cases you mention above belong to Charlie!

Bamber won't be freed and he won't get any money.