Author Topic: Was Paxman correct, McCanns "collaborated with them when it was convenient"?  (Read 2511 times)

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Offline Alice Purjorick

That is your opinion.

In my opinion the methodology used was successful in having Madeleine's case reviewed here and as we later found out in Portugal also.  Enough missed evidence was found to fully justify reopening the case into her disappearance in both countries.

In my opinion without the very proactive campaigning of her parents on her behalf and their collaboration with the press that goal could never have been achieved.

I am aware of course that there are some who think looking for this missing child and perhaps finding out what happened to her is an expense too far and have denigrated all police activity on her behalf bar that which came to in my opinion, the wrong conclusion eleven years ago.
That is their privilege.

However it is my opinion that until the present investigation is concluded it is premature to sit in judgement on its success.

So your criterion for success is merely having it the publice eye ?
Tick ...tock. Hickory dickory dock two mice ran up the clock. The clock struck one but the other escaped. Tick...tock.

Offline Brietta

The thread exists because Gerry McCann accused Paxman of playing devil's advocate when he used the 'collaborate' word to describe his behaviour.

In my opinion the thread exists because you were of the opinion that "Gerry McCann had a meltdown" when interviewed by Paxman.

In my opinion your perception of the event is flawed as there is no evidence of such an alleged "meltdown" in what was a measured and reasoned exchange by interviewed and interviewer.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Brietta

So your criterion for success is merely having it the publice eye ?

In my opinion the criteria are ...
  • an official review
  • the reopening of Madeleine's case
  • the fact that there is sufficient substance to enable the search for Madeleine to be continual since then till now
  • the fact that without the McCann efforts on her behalf in which their use of the media played a role imo there would have been no official search for Madeleine McCann.  No parent has those resources and in my opinion if she is not looked for she will not be found
Therefore, as far as it goes for the present ... success!  Although I do hope for more in the future.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Alice Purjorick

So,  do you think they shouldn't have bothered?   We don't know if they have identified the perpetrator or not as the investigation is ongoing.


In the case of a missing child who could be anywhere in the world,   as a parent I would not sit back and think,  this is not going to be productive,   I would think get my child's face out there, everywhere.  IMO

I am not dealing in ifs and buts.
We know what was done and eleven years on it has not yielded a definitive result. It is what it is.
Just to set the record straight again as the message and the posts are not being received five by five:
IMO there are three groups. Those who wish to see the McCann's "dancing at Tyburn". Those who believe the McCanns should be beatified and those who don't give a rat's ass one way or the other as long as the truth outs.
I fit in the latter group. I accept there are those who believe I don't , choosing to believe instead they know my mind better than I do, because when I said gee it is clear I really meant haw but am not bright enough to know it.
FMG
Tick ...tock. Hickory dickory dock two mice ran up the clock. The clock struck one but the other escaped. Tick...tock.

Offline G-Unit

In my opinion collaboration with the press allowed Kate and Gerry to push the case for a living breathing Madeleine who must be looked for as opposed to the preconceived conclusion reached by Amaral and promoted by his supporters holding sway.

They certainly pushed their theory to the exclusion of all others, didn't they? They pushed it so relentlessly that some people think it's fact, not a theory.

Amaral has to be dragged into the debate even though he wasn't in charge and didn't decide the direction the investigation took. That decision was taken by others, and according to Neves no one line of inquiry was exclusively investigated.

SO – Have you any knowledge about how the "death" theory came about?
LN says there was no such theory in the beginning; he even remembers that Guilhermino Encarnação talked of abduction. But with time this idea had to be contemplated.......

LN Independently of the main theory, all lines of inquiry kept on being investigated.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2600.0

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Alice Purjorick

In my opinion the criteria are ...
  • an official review
  • the reopening of Madeleine's case
  • the fact that there is sufficient substance to enable the search for Madeleine to be continual since then till now
  • the fact that without the McCann efforts on her behalf in which their use of the media played a role imo there would have been no official search for Madeleine McCann.  No parent has those resources and in my opinion if she is not looked for she will not be found
Therefore, as far as it goes for the present ... success!  Although I do hope for more in the future.

So you don't think the Foundations Articles of Association are correct then ?
Tick ...tock. Hickory dickory dock two mice ran up the clock. The clock struck one but the other escaped. Tick...tock.

Offline Faithlilly

I really wish these McCann critics would explain whether or not Madeleine’s disappearance should have been made public or not, and if the answer is yes it should, then how would they limit that publicity to their satisfaction?

Of course Madeleine’s disappearance should have been made public but in a way that was lead by the appropriate authorities and not PR companies. There is a reason why the parents of missing children aren’t asked to lead investigations.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Brietta

So you don't think the Foundations Articles of Association are correct then ?

Why would you think that?  Please keep your reply on topic with relation to the alleged convenient press collaborative.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Of course Madeleine’s disappearance should have been made public but in a way that was lead by the appropriate authorities and not PR companies. There is a reason why the parents of missing children aren’t asked to lead investigations.
The McCanns did not lead this investigation until it was shelved and then they had no other option.  So tell me how information put into the public domain solely  by the authorities about Madeleine would have yielded greater success for the investigation than had the parents not also busted a gut “collaborating” with the press?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline jassi

AS I recall, Clarence Mitchell briefed the press long before the case was shelved.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 04:47:06 PM by Brietta »
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline Faithlilly

The McCanns did not lead this investigation until it was shelved and then they had no other option.  So tell me how information put into the public domain solely  by the authorities about Madeleine would have yielded greater success for the investigation than had the parents not also busted a gut “collaborating” with the press?

I can suggest you read Kate’s book ? In my opinion their new apartment might as well have had a revolving door fitted, the amount of PR, lawyers etc who where visiting them.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 04:51:08 PM by Brietta »
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

I can suggest you read Kate’s book ? Their new apartment might as well have had a revolving door fitted, the amount of PR, lawyers etc who where visiting them.
So what?  How is that them “leading the investigation”?  They ended up as arguidos so they didn’t do a very clever job of “leading the investigation”did they?!
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline Alice Purjorick

Why would you think that?  Please keep your reply on topic with relation to the alleged convenient press collaborative.

Because the articles define success in terms differently from your definition.
If you feel the post was off topic then delete it; it's no skin off my nose having already made my point.
Tick ...tock. Hickory dickory dock two mice ran up the clock. The clock struck one but the other escaped. Tick...tock.

Offline Brietta

They certainly pushed their theory to the exclusion of all others, didn't they? They pushed it so relentlessly that some people think it's fact, not a theory.

Amaral has to be dragged into the debate even though he wasn't in charge and didn't decide the direction the investigation took. That decision was taken by others, and according to Neves no one line of inquiry was exclusively investigated.

SO – Have you any knowledge about how the "death" theory came about?
LN says there was no such theory in the beginning; he even remembers that Guilhermino Encarnação talked of abduction. But with time this idea had to be contemplated.......

LN Independently of the main theory, all lines of inquiry kept on being investigated.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2600.0

Bearing in mind that LN had been called as a witness in his friend's trial for libel and attested he had skimmed the book and had not watched the resultant documentary of the book both of which were the subject of the trial one wonders if your quote is in the spirit of the topic of this thread.

Snip
The Judge – Have you read the book?
LN says he didn't read it completely. Somebody showed the book to him and he read a few sections, just before the injunction trial.

The Judge - Have you watched the documentary?
LN says "no".
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2600.0

In my opinion it is fine to use quotes in support of an argument, but I can't see why you chose the one you did as it bears no relation to the Paxman interview with Gerry or the McCanns and the press.

However it also seems Goncalo Amaral does not share Neves resistance to the death theory propounded in his (Amaral's) book.

Snip
Correio da Manhã – As the case investigator, what is your thesis?

Gonçalo Amaral – The little girl died in the apartment.   Taken from: Interview with Gonçalo Amaral
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 05:36:46 PM by Brietta »
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Bearing in mind that LN had been called as a witness in his friend's trial for libel and attested he had skimmed the book and had not watched the resultant documentary of the book both of which were the subject of the trial one wonders if your quote is in the spirit of the topic of this thread.

Snip
The Judge – Have you read the book?
LN says he didn't read it completely. Somebody showed the book to him and he read a few sections, just before the injunction trial.

The Judge - Have you watched the documentary?
LN says "no".
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2600.0

In my opinion it is fine to use quotes in support of an argument, but I can't see why you chose the one you did as it bears no relation to the Paxman interview with Gerry or the McCanns and the press.

However it also seems Goncalo Amaral does not share Neves resistance to the death theory propounded in his (Amaral's) book.

Snip
Correio da Manhã – As the case investigator, what is your thesis?

Gonçalo Amaral – The little girl died in the apartment.   Taken from: Interview with Gonçalo Amaral

One was replying to a previous post about the McCanns 'pushing' their theory via the media. The cite to Neves evidence was to debunk the suggestion that the investigation only followed one theory. Does 'case investigator' mean 'case director'? In my opinion Encarnacao was in charge and made the decisions about what to investigate.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 06:37:45 PM by slartibartfast »
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything