Author Topic: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?  (Read 414 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Why, for example, were the parents reluctant to mention going to the new apartment with the children? Was it because they carried them from block 5 to block 4, then back to block 5 and they continued to sleep, I wonder?

When questioned if the twins woke while the apartment was being searched, he replies negatively. When they were taken to another apartment he does not know if they woke as he did not take them
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

So the staff put up two extra cots in Fiona and David’s apartment and we carried a
sleepy Sean and Amelie into their sitting room......I lowered myself down on to the couch with Fiona. She took a twin from me and we both sat there hugging my children. [madeleine]

 I received a call from John informing me that he had arranged for another apartment for the McCanns. I went to reception and helped Lyndsey to move the two cots to the new apartment

The McCanns went to the new apartment and I remember seeing Kate and Mrs Payne seated on the sofa, each holding one of the twins.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

70
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 05:39:02 PM by John »
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Offline jassi

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 09:19:27 AM »
Why, for example, were the parents reluctant to mention going to the new apartment with the children? Was it because they carried them from block 5 to block 4, then back to block 5 and they continued to sleep, I wonder?

When questioned if the twins woke while the apartment was being searched, he replies negatively. When they were taken to another apartment he does not know if they woke as he did not take them
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

So the staff put up two extra cots in Fiona and David’s apartment and we carried a
sleepy Sean and Amelie into their sitting room......I lowered myself down on to the couch with Fiona. She took a twin from me and we both sat there hugging my children. [madeleine]

 I received a call from John informing me that he had arranged for another apartment for the McCanns. I went to reception and helped Lyndsey to move the two cots to the new apartment

The McCanns went to the new apartment and I remember seeing Kate and Mrs Payne seated on the sofa, each holding one of the twins.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

I had always assumed that they were sitting on the sofa in the Payne's apartment. This appears not to be so.

Does that mean that the McCann family did not spend the night in the Payne apartment?  If so, how could they have gone out searching in the early morning?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 05:06:00 PM by John »
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 09:30:08 AM »
I had always assumed that they were sitting on the sofa in the Payne's apartment. This appears not to be so.

Does that mean that the McCann family did not spend the night in the Payne apartment?  If so, how could they have gone out searching in the early morning?

Interesting point.
Helping Elite sufferers of NPD for over 2 years...

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2018, 09:34:19 AM »
I had always assumed that they were sitting on the sofa in the Payne's apartment. This appears not to be so.

Does that mean that the McCann family did not spend the night in the Payne apartment?  If so, how could they have gone out searching in the early morning?
Why couldn't they have gone out searching?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline jassi

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2018, 09:35:52 AM »
Why couldn't they have gone out searching?

And leave the twins home alone again?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline G-Unit

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2018, 09:42:04 AM »
I had always assumed that they were sitting on the sofa in the Payne's apartment. This appears not to be so.

Does that mean that the McCann family did not spend the night in the Payne apartment?  If so, how could they have gone out searching in the early morning?

They moved to the Payne's apartment after Emma Knight left, and went out after that.

The McCanns went to the new apartment and I remember seeing Kate and Mrs Payne seated on the sofa, each holding one of the twins. I left the new apartment at 04.30 in the morning after instructions from John Hill.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

Reply    ”Err well eventually err the twins were brought up into our apartment err and that again to me was err a very odd thing because they were fast asleep, they did not wake up.”

4078    ”Were they brought up, so had they been taken out of their cots and brought up?”

 Reply    ”Yeah, yeah. They were being carried, I think Fiona and Dave carried them up.”........

4078    ”Yeah. So after the twins had been brought up did Fiona and Dave stay in the apartment with you?”

 Reply    ”Yeah well at that point Kate and Gerry came up as well and err because the Police had decided to close off the apartment, bit late in the day but you know, they came up and what we did we got the, there was mattresses on the spare beds in the room where Lily was sleeping so we got them and put them on the floor in the lounge beside the twins so that they could rest, if not sleep, err but by this time it must have been about half past four, five o’ clock in the morning.”........

4078    ”Once they arrived at your apartment did they stay there a while or do you remember them leaving?”

 Reply    ”What, that night?”

 4078    ”Mm.”

 Reply    ”Err I think, I think, I think they stayed there because it was very late or you know early, early morning
 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

 

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 09:45:35 AM »
And leave the twins home alone again?
WAsn't Fiona Payne with them?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline jassi

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2018, 09:51:09 AM »
WAsn't Fiona Payne with them?

Was she?  I don'r know. 

If you read my post carefully, you'll see where I'm coming from.
If they were moved to another apartment, cots and all, where Kate & Fiona were seen on the sofa with the twins, when did they leave to go back to the Payne apartment, and why?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2018, 09:56:32 AM »
Was she?  I don'r know. 

If you read my post carefully, you'll see where I'm coming from.
If they were moved to another apartment, cots and all, where Kate & Fiona were seen on the sofa with the twins, when did they leave to go back to the Payne apartment, and why?
Hmm...I really don't know, nor do I really much care, as I fail to see what learning the answer to this trivial point will reveal in the quest to discover what happened to Madeleine.  Do you think it points to nefarious doings?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline slartibartfast

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2018, 10:00:44 AM »
Hmm...I really don't know, nor do I really much care, as I fail to see what learning the answer to this trivial point will reveal in the quest to discover what happened to Madeleine.  Do you think it points to nefarious doings?

If the McCanns and the Twins were alone in the new apartment when Kate claims in her book that they went out searching it would mean they left the twins alone. So a pertinent question to try and answer.
Helping Elite sufferers of NPD for over 2 years...

Offline jassi

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2018, 10:04:58 AM »
Hmm...I really don't know, nor do I really much care, as I fail to see what learning the answer to this trivial point will reveal in the quest to discover what happened to Madeleine. Do you think it points to nefarious doings?

It certainly suggests events not being quite as portrayed in that tome of truth penned by Kate.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2018, 10:12:29 AM »
It certainly suggests events not being quite as portrayed in that tome of truth penned by Kate.
Any particular reason you can think of why she might choose to deliberately lie about such a detail?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline jassi

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2018, 10:34:24 AM »
Any particular reason you can think of why she might choose to deliberately lie about such a detail?

I don't use the word lie, I prefer the word mislead.
No idea why she should do this other than to obscure the scene .
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline G-Unit

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2018, 10:38:10 AM »
Any particular reason you can think of why she might choose to deliberately lie about such a detail?

Whether Kate choose to deliberately lie isn't known. Perhaps she just forgot that they moved the twins twice that night, just as she seems to have forgotten physically searching in her interview with Jane Hill on 25th May. The fact that her memory seems to let her down, however, makes her an unreliable witness in my opinion.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline jassi

Re: So where were the twins moved to the night Madeleine disappeared?
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2018, 10:40:19 AM »
Whether Kate choose to deliberately lie isn't known. Perhaps she just forgot that they moved the twins twice that night, just as she seems to have forgotten physically searching in her interview with Jane Hill on 25th May. The fact that her memory seems to let her down, however, makes her an unreliable witness in my opinion.

Where does the information about moving twice come from?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.