Author Topic: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom  (Read 2311 times)

ShiningInLuz, Snowgirl, Brietta and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Brietta

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2018, 10:35:28 PM »
I may be new to the Forum but I am not new to the site, I joined in 2014 but was a guest for many years beforehand. 

Please tell me how Kate McCann saw the Twins in their respected cots?

At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before. She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

Faced with this situation,she verified that the twins were in their respective beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. The cover was pulled back and the toys were on the pillow as usual. After searching the whole apartment thoroughly, the interviewee went back, scared and shocked, to the restaurant, to alert her husband and the others to the disappearance. The whole group then set about searching for Madeleine throughout the complex, looked in all the buildings, swimming pool, tennis courts etc....as well as in the apartment with the help of employees, who, at the same time, contacted the authorities.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9504.msg461407#msg461407

What isn't clear to you about that?
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Robin Banks

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2018, 10:49:30 PM »
At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before. She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

Faced with this situation,she verified that the twins were in their respective beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. The cover was pulled back and the toys were on the pillow as usual. After searching the whole apartment thoroughly, the interviewee went back, scared and shocked, to the restaurant, to alert her husband and the others to the disappearance. The whole group then set about searching for Madeleine throughout the complex, looked in all the buildings, swimming pool, tennis courts etc....as well as in the apartment with the help of employees, who, at the same time, contacted the authorities.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9504.msg461407#msg461407

What isn't clear to you about that?

How did she see the Twins before seeing Maddie's empty bed if the room was in darkness? 

Online Brietta

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2018, 11:02:45 PM »
How did she see the Twins before seeing Maddie's empty bed if the room was in darkness?

You will be familiar with the many posts on the forum regarding paraphrased non-verbatim statements taken at the time.

Obviously this is merely an example of one.

In my opinion ... Kate ascertained the twins were there by looking after she noticed Madeleine was missing.  The sequence of events as follows
  • Kate pulls the door towards her
  • door slams
  • Kate opens door ~ curtains billow
  • Kate sees that Madeleine is missing from her bed
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Robin Banks

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2018, 11:12:57 PM »
You will be familiar with the many posts on the forum regarding paraphrased non-verbatim statements taken at the time.

Obviously this is merely an example of one.

In my opinion ... Kate ascertained the twins were there by looking after she noticed Madeleine was missing.  The sequence of events as follows
  • Kate pulls the door towards her
  • door slams
  • Kate opens door ~ curtains billow
  • Kate sees that Madeleine is missing from her bed

But Kate say's she see's the Twins in their respected cots, before she see's Maddie, how is that possible?

Kate does not pull the door towards herself, she pushes the door wider.

Online Brietta

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2018, 12:23:08 AM »
But Kate say's she see's the Twins in their respected cots, before she see's Maddie, how is that possible?

Kate does not pull the door towards herself, she pushes the door wider.

She didn't actually see Madeleine though, did she?  Madeleine wasn't there to be seen.

You are undoubtedly mistaken regarding the sequence of events.  Kate noticed the door was open further than it had been left ... she moved it to its usual position, in the process of which it slammed. She then opened it and looked into the room.

"I just noticed that the door … the bedroom door … where the three children were sleeping, was open much further than we’d left it.  I went to close it to about here, and as I got to here it suddenly slammed ... " Kate McCann
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:50:56 AM by Brietta »
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Executive Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11723
  • Total likes: 1690
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • Help to solve the Madeleine McCann case
Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2018, 05:05:39 AM »
At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before. She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

Faced with this situation,she verified that the twins were in their respective beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. The cover was pulled back and the toys were on the pillow as usual. After searching the whole apartment thoroughly, the interviewee went back, scared and shocked, to the restaurant, to alert her husband and the others to the disappearance. The whole group then set about searching for Madeleine throughout the complex, looked in all the buildings, swimming pool, tennis courts etc....as well as in the apartment with the help of employees, who, at the same time, contacted the authorities.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9504.msg461407#msg461407

What isn't clear to you about that?
I wouldn't be surprised if by that stage she had not turned on the lights and actually bodily entered the children's bedroom.
What are you doing to find Madeleine?
https://www.youcaring.com/madeleinemccann-1080869

Offline jassi

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2018, 08:52:47 AM »
She didn't actually see Madeleine though, did she?  Madeleine wasn't there to be seen.

You are undoubtedly mistaken regarding the sequence of events.  Kate noticed the door was open further than it had been left ... she moved it to its usual position, in the process of which it slammed. She then opened it and looked into the room.

"I just noticed that the door … the bedroom door … where the three children were sleeping, was open much further than we’d left it.  I went to close it to about here, and as I got to here it suddenly slammed ... " Kate McCann
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw

So by her own admission she wasn't intending to eyeball her kids, not really check them at all.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Online Brietta

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2018, 08:53:45 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if by that stage she had not turned on the lights and actually bodily entered the children's bedroom.

The fact it isn't verbatim doesn't help.
I really don't know what the problem is though ... undoubtedly the twins were still in the cots where they had been left sleeping and I can't imagine the horror and confusion of being unable to find your daughter in the situation as described.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Brietta

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2018, 09:01:28 AM »
So by her own admission she wasn't intending to eyeball her kids, not really check them at all.

I knew that and for some reason I had assumed everyone who posts on a regular basis about Madeleine's case did too, particularly as I have seen it quoted often in a derogatory manner.

There is no secret about it and there never was.  They did listening checks.  I don't have time to check at the moment, but didn't Gerry say he wouldn't have looked into the room on the night Madeleine went missing if the door hadn't been open further than they had left it?
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline barrier

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2018, 09:17:37 AM »
There is no secret about it and there never was.  They did listening checks.  I don't have time to check at the moment, but didn't Gerry say he wouldn't have looked into the room on the night Madeleine went missing if the door hadn't been open further than they had left it?

On the 4/05/2007 he didn't say that.

Ref PJ files.
Mark Rowley:There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.

Offline jassi

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2018, 09:17:52 AM »
I knew that and for some reason I had assumed everyone who posts on a regular basis about Madeleine's case did too, particularly as I have seen it quoted often in a derogatory manner.

There is no secret about it and there never was.  They did listening checks.  I don't have time to check at the moment, but didn't Gerry say he wouldn't have looked into the room on the night Madeleine went missing if the door hadn't been open further than they had left it?

Most things get repeated over & over, why not this ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Online Brietta

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2018, 09:23:39 AM »
On the 4/05/2007 he didn't say that.

Ref PJ files.

There was never any secret that the group used a listening system at least in part ... the Paynes even brought along a listening device which meant they didn't even have to go near their apartment to do it.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline sadie

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2018, 11:50:09 AM »
When you open a door your view get bigger and bigger until you unfold the full picture.  So if I opened the Childrens bedroom door, my first visual contact would have been Maddie, as I opened the door further I would have seen the blue cot and as I opened the door even further I get to see the blue cot.  Unless Kate McCann has a Stretch Armstrong neck this wasn't possible.  How did she see the Twins before she saw Maddie's empty bed, it was dark.

The cots are much lower than Maddie's bed, thus making the blue cot further away from the door than Maddie lying at least knee height of Kate, the cots are just inches off the floor.


1)  What do you mean by this [first] sentence ? ... but it is Wrong anyway

2)
Quote
How did she see the Twins before she saw Maddie's empty bed, it was dark.
I cant think how you can believe this?  You are so obviously Wrong !

Online ShiningInLuz

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2018, 12:18:35 PM »
1)  What do you mean by this [first] sentence ? ... but it is Wrong anyway

2) I cant think how you can believe this?  You are so obviously Wrong !
Both are reasonable points.

Perhaps you might care to explain why you think they are wrong.
Portelas installed. Plus Gonçalo!  And F1!  And the World Cup!

Offline sadie

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2018, 12:21:10 PM »
I have looked at the Children's bedroom photo many times, but today I noticed something else.  Kate has always maintained that everything was quiet in the apartment when she returned at 10pm, she listened at the Children's bedroom door and all seemed fine.  But then she noticed the door was slightly more open than how they'd left it, which indicates to me that the Children wasn't checked at all that night.  So Kate opens the door slightly and see's the Twins sleeping.



One of the cots is blue and has a mesh type fabric covering all sides, the other cot is brown and has the same type of mesh fabric, but it only covers the side panels on the cot, the head and foot panels are covered in brown fabric that you can't see through.

Kate pops her head round the door and see's two sleeping babies in their cots, she wouldn't of had a problem seeing the baby in the blue cot, but seeing the baby in the brown cot would have been impossible unless she was about eight feet tall.

So Kate McCann has seen the two babies in their cots without entering the room and in the dark. 

Well I done my own experiment,  I put a large box on my bed and the further I stepped away the less I saw what was inside and further more, if a Child was going to be abducted that night surely they would have taken the Child that was out of view and not the one that was in plain sight, thus giving them more time to make their getaway.  I suspect Amelia was sleeping in the brown cot.

Just an observation

 
1)  You are assuming that despite several people moving around that room, searching and checking windows shutters etc., then removing the twins to take elsewhere with their bedclothes, that nothing got moved?  That is a big assumption and may, or may not, be correct

2)   The Twins cots have very low sides.  The bed is a cheapish bed and low as can be seen on various photos.  The bed only comes up to the upper end of the second drawer of the chest, and the twins travel cots only come up to the lower edge of the upper drawer  ... so maybe 4"-5" higher than the low bed?

3)  The photograph is taken from a low level.  You can see the door knob.

4)   All these facts show that the travel cots had very low sides.  Kate is tall and IMO would have no problem seeing the twins in these travel cots from the doorway.  Especially so as the only one with a blanked end was quite close to her



IMO, Kate could see straight into these travel cots from the doorway.  One big step into the room and she could have seen madeleine, had she been there.

Yep, Robin, the room was fairly dark inside but with the shutters up, a small amount of light would have been coming in via the window, and some light would have been beaming in onto the brown cot especially from the lamp that was left on in the sitting room.  Madeleine, around the corner, would not have benefitted so much from the light from the sitting room