Author Topic: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries  (Read 179 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

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NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« on: May 14, 2018, 05:02:47 PM »
Summary gunshot injuries sustained upstairs from pathology report:

1. Lip
2. Jaw
3. Shoulder
4. Elbow/Chest

- 1 and 2 could have been life threatening if other injuries hadn't supervened
- Produced "extreme pain"
- Ability to speak "completely impaired"
- "Substantial" blood loss internally and externally
- Ability to swallow "seriously impeded"
- Ability to use left arm "totally impaired"

Summary non-gunshot injuries most likely sustained in the kitchen:

- Fractures to skull
- Bruising to both eyes not solely associated with fractures to skull but blows from blunt object
- Laceration to right side of nose, 1 blow in association with injury to right eye above
- Bruising and grazing to bridge of nose.  Same blow as laceration to right side of nose
- Bruising forehead 1 each side
- Bruising right cheek and temple
- Bruising and abrasions left cheek and temple
- *Laceration right parietal region "severe superficial skin injury"
- Laceration left parietal region 1/4"
- Bruising ulna right forearm

* Pathologist said he was unable to gauge the force used other than for this wound which he described as being inflicted with "considerable force" albeit it caused a laceration wound. 

The above non-gunshot wounds were probably not capable of generating blood spatter. 

Aside the fractures to the skull the other wounds amounted to bruises and lacerations. 

It is often said SC would not have been capable of inflicting these injuries.  I'm not sure what exactly is meant by this ie mentally, physically or both but I don't see anything here that SC was unable to inflict.  SC was normal build and 5' 7.5" tall.  Conversely I think if JB was responsible he would have achieved fatal gsw's to NB's head (upstairs) and any non-gunshot injuries would be more severe due to the greater physical strength possessed by men. 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 05:06:52 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Alice

Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2018, 05:57:21 PM »
That all seems to show that the shot that damaged the larynx and stopped Nevill speaking must have been sustained upstairs and before he entered the kitchen. If so he could not have made the supposed phone call. To my mind spatter and silencers are irrelevant - look at the calls.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2018, 06:06:40 PM »
That all seems to show that the shot that damaged the larynx and stopped Nevill speaking must have been sustained upstairs and before he entered the kitchen. If so he could not have made the supposed phone call. To my mind spatter and silencers are irrelevant - look at the calls.

If NB called JB, I think he did, then it was from the kitchen before any shots were fired. 

What about the calls?  IMO to say he/she would do this, that or the other is subjective and just supposition based on what others think they would or wouldn't do.   

Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Caroline

Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2018, 09:58:11 PM »
Summary gunshot injuries sustained upstairs from pathology report:

1. Lip
2. Jaw
3. Shoulder
4. Elbow/Chest

- 1 and 2 could have been life threatening if other injuries hadn't supervened
- Produced "extreme pain"
- Ability to speak "completely impaired"
- "Substantial" blood loss internally and externally
- Ability to swallow "seriously impeded"
- Ability to use left arm "totally impaired"

Summary non-gunshot injuries most likely sustained in the kitchen:

- Fractures to skull
- Bruising to both eyes not solely associated with fractures to skull but blows from blunt object
- Laceration to right side of nose, 1 blow in association with injury to right eye above
- Bruising and grazing to bridge of nose.  Same blow as laceration to right side of nose
- Bruising forehead 1 each side
- Bruising right cheek and temple
- Bruising and abrasions left cheek and temple
- *Laceration right parietal region "severe superficial skin injury"
- Laceration left parietal region 1/4"
- Bruising ulna right forearm

* Pathologist said he was unable to gauge the force used other than for this wound which he described as being inflicted with "considerable force" albeit it caused a laceration wound. 

The above non-gunshot wounds were probably not capable of generating blood spatter. 

Aside the fractures to the skull the other wounds amounted to bruises and lacerations. 

It is often said SC would not have been capable of inflicting these injuries.  I'm not sure what exactly is meant by this ie mentally, physically or both but I don't see anything here that SC was unable to inflict.  SC was normal build and 5' 7.5" tall.  Conversely I think if JB was responsible he would have achieved fatal gsw's to NB's head (upstairs) and any non-gunshot injuries would be more severe due to the greater physical strength possessed by men.

Aren't you now being subjective? Bamber WANTED (edited from original post) the crime to look disorganised and as though Sheila were responsible. Execution style head shots would have raised questions.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 11:37:19 PM by Caroline »

Offline Stephanie

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Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2018, 10:17:30 PM »
Aren't you now being subjective? Bamber wasn't the crime to look disorganised and as though Sheila were responsible. Execution style head shots would have raised questions.

I quite agree Caroline!
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Offline adam

Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2018, 11:33:49 PM »
I believe Bamber wanted Nevill to die in the main bedroom. As June did. He could then put a phone upstairs & arrange Nevill or June to make it look like a phone call had been made to him. Which would not be hard to arrange. 

Two of Nevill's upstairs shots were head shots. Nevill simply woke up & moved as the 3rd & 4th shots were being fired. Nevill got downstairs where Bamber didn't hesitate in violently hitting him multiple times.

Offline Caroline

Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2018, 11:37:58 PM »
I believe Bamber wanted Nevill to die in the main bedroom. As June did. He could then put a phone upstairs & arrange Nevill or June to make it look like a phone call had been made to him. Which would not be hard to arrange. 

Two of Nevill's upstairs shots were head shots. Nevill simply woke up & moved as the 3rd & 4th shots were being fired. Nevill got downstairs where Bamber didn't hesitate in violently hitting him multiple times.

Good theory!

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 12:44:10 PM »
Aren't you now being subjective? Bamber WANTED (edited from original post) the crime to look disorganised and as though Sheila were responsible. Execution style head shots would have raised questions.
There's a crucial difference between JB v SC:

If JB was responsible he had 3 adults to murder one of which needed to look like a suicide.  And according to the prosecution the adult victims were spread over 2 rooms.  

If SC was responsible she had 2 adults to murder and could take her own life as and when it suited.  And according to the prosecution the adult victims were in 1 room.

If SC was responsible her task was arguably much easier.

If JB was responsible,a marksman at Greshams, he had to make the scene look amateurish and manic; a fine balancing act between this and maintaining control.  He could not run the risk of being over powered by the adults.  Or one of the adults arming themselves with one of the other firearms.  Or raising the alarm from within.  Or fleeing WHF to raise the alarm.  

The prosecution case is that JB entered WHF under stealth and opened fire on his parents in their bedroom.  This being the case he would have taken them out in the bedroom.  A few crazy shots and then moved in for the kill with shots to the head.   This would look amateurish by way of random shots hitting and injuring and then going for the head when the victims were subdued.  This would be over in seconds then swiftly across the landing into SC's bedroom killing her in her own bed.   
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Caroline

Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 02:36:59 PM »
There's a crucial difference between JB v SC:

If JB was responsible he had 3 adults to murder one of which needed to look like a suicide.  And according to the prosecution the adult victims were spread over 2 rooms. 

If SC was responsible she had 2 adults to murder and could take her own life as and when it suited.  And according to the prosecution the adult victims were in 1 room.

If SC was responsible her task was arguably much easier.

If JB was responsible,a marksman at Greshams, he had to make the scene look amateurish and manic; a fine balancing act between this and maintaining control.  He could not run the risk of being over powered by the adults.  Or one of the adults arming themselves with one of the other firearms.  Or raising the alarm from within.  Or fleeing WHF to raise the alarm. 

The prosecution case is that JB entered WHF under stealth and opened fire on his parents in their bedroom.  This being the case he would have taken them out in the bedroom.  A few crazy shots and then moved in for the kill with shots to the head.   This would look amateurish by way of random shots hitting and injuring and then going for the head when the victims were subdued.  This would be over in seconds then swiftly across the landing into SC's bedroom killing her in her own bed.   

Just because that is their case, doesn't mean that it happened like that. I don't think it did. He couldn't kill SC in her own bed, that wouldn't look like suicide. It had to look as though she's been on the rampage.

Offline adam

Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 05:52:22 PM »
Bamber would have known whether he could easily control Sheila. He had sat at the dinner table with her around 5 hours earlier.

He realised he could & got back to his cottage to ring Julie to say 'tonights the night'.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 06:05:35 PM by adam »

Offline adam

Re: NB's Gunshot and Non-Gunshot Injuries
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2018, 06:04:43 PM »
Can only think of one instance where Bamber may have unintentionally woken Sheila prior to it being her turn to be shot -

Entering WHF. No one woke - NO.

Going upstairs. No one woke - NO.

Shooting the twins. Silencer attached. No one woke - NO.

Shooting June. Silencer attached. June asleep & nullified from 5 bullets - NO.

Shooting Nevill. Silencer attached. Nevill shot in throat & 3 more times. Nevill went straight downstairs. No raised voices.  - NO.

Kitchen fight. Fight was downstairs in a big house. Was brutal but over quickly. SLIM CHANCE. 

----------

After the kitchen fight, Bamber had the option of killing Sheila. Everyone else was negated.

Sheila would have been in bed, asleep, under sedation & behind a closed door/walls. So very unlikely she woke, as the evidence shows.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 10:03:34 PM by adam »