Question about Nevill's watch

[APRIL]

Bamber's parents hushed up the Osea burglary.  Maybe this was the first occasion they let him off the hook.

Perhaps it comes under the heading of being one of those "Jeremy did other things" incidents?

[Nicholas]

I had to go to the police and reported it. Arrests where not made at the time.  I decided to remove myself completely and closed any social media links I had.  I was not prepared to battle this out amongst obsessive Bamberettes.

I'd done my bit  now it was time for others to take the reins and be there for him.  I bowed out with dignity.

Let's leave it there!

You were ‘battling this out’ indirectly with Bamber

He was playing each of you off against the other

You were no longer useful to him

And I’m guessing if you read back through some of his letters/paperwork you’ll start to recognise this - if you choose to that is

[ISpyWithMyEye]

There's an element of truth in what Collins is now saying about where those diamonds came from, and after blowing his $5,000 (£2,500) on a crooked heroin dealer, Bamber was hawking them around Auckland jewellers for some ready cash.

What makes Brett Collins revelations so reliable is that he couldn’t have known many of things that were being said about the diamonds etc, as he went back to NZ shortly afterwards.

He wouldn’t have heard all the talk/gossip...nor read about it in the NZ press except for snippets.

The diamonds make sense now. And when they talk about a bag of diamonds they’re probably meaning half a dozen/maybe 10...That’s how diamond merchants sell them loose...I’ve seen small bags of them with my own eyes. It’s more than possible Granny Speakman was given loose diamonds by her husband or relatives; possibly brought back from Africa

Doubt she had a tiara (that’s a JB grandiose lie)...she may have had jewelled hair ornaments from when she was young, but maybe she did have a small wedding tiara...who knows?

If he managed to prise diamonds out, it wouldn’t have been traditional settings as they need special tools. Without knowing what she had it’s hard to know, but I think it’s possible she had loose diamonds: maybe he stole half of them and thought she wouldn’t notice.

I bet he stole SO MUCH over the years

[Caroline]

Yes, Myster. Whilst I dismissed some of what BC said as effect value, I had an "Aha" moment when it came to the diamonds. My only rider is that having once, by accident, managed to remove a diamond from it setting, it occurs to me that it must have taken some time to get a bag full of stones worth selling, and I wonder, too, when their loss was discovered and what was done regarding it. I very much doubt that there were any tiara's in the haul, though.

Why? 

[Nicholas]

You were ‘battling this out’ indirectly with Bamber

He was playing each of you off against the other

You were no longer useful to him

And I’m guessing if you read back through some of his letters/paperwork you’ll start to recognise this - if you choose to that is

He played SF off against JM.

Here’s an extract, again from her 10th Sept 1985 statement;

Whilst in New Zealand Jeremy has told me he stole two Cartier watches. He did it by walking into a jewellers, asking to see them, then when the assistant got them out he snatched them and ran off. He changed his hair colour and style by having it permed and dyed blonde. He told me he stole them because he had run out of money and had wanted to bring something nice back for Sue the women he was living with. She would apparently have been upset if he had not brought her something nice back as she is materialistic.

Why did Bamber tell JM that SF was apparently materialistic - to make her jealous maybe or to make her think by telling her this she wasn’t to have the same expectations of him?

And is that why he spent a couple of hundred pounds on a suit for himself and brought her a £20 dress ?

[Nicholas]

I had to go to the police and reported it. Arrests where not made at the time.  I decided to remove myself completely and closed any social media links I had.  I was not prepared to battle this out amongst obsessive Bamberettes.

I'd done my bit  now it was time for others to take the reins and be there for him.  I bowed out with dignity.

Let's leave it there!

Are you scared Aunt Agatha?

Are you scared if you repeat things that are meant to stay between you and Bamber you might suffer abuse by the ‘obsessive Bamberettes’ ?

You don’t need to be - if you are

[ISpyWithMyEye]

He played SF off against JM.

Here’s an extract, again from her 10th Sept 1985 statement;

Whilst in New Zealand Jeremy has told me he stole two Cartier watches. He did it by walking into a jewellers, asking to see them, then when the assistant got them out he snatched them and ran off. He changed his hair colour and style by having it permed and dyed blonde. He told me he stole them because he had run out of money and had wanted to bring something nice back for Sue the women he was living with. She would apparently have been upset if he had not brought her something nice back as she is materialistic.


I believe Julie’s account of what she said JB told her, but he was lying to her. Julie did seem very gullible when interviewed on TV.

I don’t think JB would have had the guts to steal watches from a jeweller’s in that way. It was too risky. And only high class jewellers sell Cartier watches — not some little jewellery’s shop tucked down a dingy High Street.

And if he DID steal them as he’d run out of money, why give one away? His story doesn’t add up.

I say that Cartier watch Agatha posted is a fake: a poor fake at that. And Jeremy picked it up in Bangkok or wherever for a fiver.

He just wanted to make himself look like a fearless wide boy...

He was just a snivelling lazy coward.



Why did Bamber tell JM that SF was apparently materialistic - to make her jealous maybe or to make her think by telling her this she wasn’t to have the same expectations of him?

And is that why he spent a couple of hundred pounds on a suit for himself and brought her a £20 dress ?

[Nicholas]

“I don’t think JB would have had the guts to steal watches from a jeweller’s in that way. It was too risky. And only high class jewellers sell Cartier watches — not some little jewellery’s shop tucked down a dingy High Street. I agree

And if he DID steal them as he’d run out of money, why give one away? His story doesn’t add up. Of course it doesn’t

I say that Cartier watch Agatha posted is a fake: a poor fake at that. And Jeremy picked it up in Bangkok or wherever for a fiver. I agree”



The rumour is SF apparently sold her watch for £150, is that right?

Where did this rumour originate?

JM’s witness statement refers to 2 alleged stolen Cartier watches ?

So what did SF tell the police when she was interviewed and asked about the watch?

When Bamber’s questioned by police he says,

“I’ve told a lot of people a lot of different stories to make me seem a bit of a jack the lad.”

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=suzette+ford+cartier+watch+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnKDNhSn&sig=ACfU3U1YGVCyRbbFBpeeiJ5NoAHRpdjm9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjepc[Name removed]gfjoAhVXQ0EAHYZ9Ad4Q6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=suzette%20ford%20cartier%20watch%20bamber&f=false

Was there only ever the one watch ?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

“I don’t think JB would have had the guts to steal watches from a jeweller’s in that way. It was too risky. And only high class jewellers sell Cartier watches — not some little jewellery’s shop tucked down a dingy High Street. I agree

And if he DID steal them as he’d run out of money, why give one away? His story doesn’t add up. Of course it doesn’t

I say that Cartier watch Agatha posted is a fake: a poor fake at that. And Jeremy picked it up in Bangkok or wherever for a fiver. I agree”



The rumour is SF apparently sold her watch for £150, is that right?

Where did this rumour originate?

JM’s witness statement refers to 2 alleged stolen Cartier watches ?

So what did SF tell the police when she was interviewed and asked about the watch?

When Bamber’s questioned by police he says,

“I’ve told a lot of people a lot of different stories to make me seem a bit of a jack the lad.”

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=suzette+ford+cartier+watch+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnKDNhSn&sig=ACfU3U1YGVCyRbbFBpeeiJ5NoAHRpdjm9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjepc[Name removed]gfjoAhVXQ0EAHYZ9Ad4Q6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=suzette%20ford%20cartier%20watch%20bamber&f=false

Was there only ever the one watch ?

I agree — he wanted to appear like some Jack the Lad daredevil. Hard, cool and tough instead of the sneaky sly coward he truly was.

None of his story adds up, and having seen that picture it’s obviously a fake. A real one would have cost about £6k back then, and as it was a ladies watch — and he claims the police wanted to stitch him up — they’d have seized that and asked him where he’d got it. Had it been genuine and he couldn’t prove how he’d acquired it, they’d have probably added that to his lesser charges, just like they did the Osea CP burglary. They’d have thrown everything they had at him. The only reason they didn’t pursue it was they saw it was a cheap fake, and that’s why they let him have it back.

And why would SF sell a £6k watch for £150? It’s ridiculous. She probably slung it because it stopped working after a few weeks and it went all discoloured!

I still don’t understand how Agatha acquired these items, unless he’d left them with with someone to look after and told Agatha she could pick them up. The police wouldn’t travel miles to hand deliver a fake watch, gun, Granny Speakman’s papers (which didn’t belong to him & he probably stole from her safe), and that ponytail. FGS...

[APRIL]

Why?

The Speakmans were more "Country Squire" than "Landed Gentry" and definitely not "Society" and it's unlikely that their forbears had been. They'd have been more likely to buy up land than acquire pieces of jewellery which couldn't be worn. They wouldn't have moved in those circles which required tiaras to be worn to certain occasions.

[Nicholas]

I agree — he wanted to appear like some Jack the Lad daredevil. Hard, cool and tough instead of the sneaky sly coward he truly was.

“If self-serving or self-aggrandizing information is repeatedly recycled, the individual is likely using a script, one that he’s forgotten that he’s already deployed with you. Psychopaths in particular are glib, and mendacity is their lingua franca. Sometimes they lie for no reason other than their own amusement. But they also lie to further specific agendas, and that is when they are most likely to go on auto-pilot in the delivery of false, scripted stories. Because people are interchangeable in the eyes of a psychopath or a narcissist—one-dimensional beings in whom they have no genuine interest—it can be hard for them to remember what they’ve said, and to whom.”

(5 Things Psychopaths and Narcissists Will Do in Conversation by Kaja Perina 2017)

[Nicholas]

I agree — he wanted to appear like some Jack the Lad daredevil. Hard, cool and tough instead of the sneaky sly coward he truly was.

None of his story adds up, and having seen that picture it’s obviously a fake. A real one would have cost about £6k back then, and as it was a ladies watch — and he claims the police wanted to stitch him up — they’d have seized that and asked him where he’d got it. Had it been genuine and he couldn’t prove how he’d acquired it, they’d have probably added that to his lesser charges, just like they did the Osea CP burglary. They’d have thrown everything they had at him. The only reason they didn’t pursue it was they saw it was a cheap fake, and that’s why they let him have it back.

And why would SF sell a £6k watch for £150? It’s ridiculous. She probably slung it because it stopped working after a few weeks and it went all discoloured!

I still don’t understand how Agatha acquired these items, unless he’d left them with with someone to look after and told Agatha she could pick them up. The police wouldn’t travel miles to hand deliver a fake watch, gun, Granny Speakman’s papers (which didn’t belong to him & he probably stole from her safe), and that ponytail. FGS...

Was SF ever given a watch by Bamber?

[Nicholas]

I agree — he wanted to appear like some Jack the Lad daredevil. Hard, cool and tough instead of the sneaky sly coward he truly was.

None of his story adds up, and having seen that picture it’s obviously a fake. A real one would have cost about £6k back then, and as it was a ladies watch — and he claims the police wanted to stitch him up — they’d have seized that and asked him where he’d got it. Had it been genuine and he couldn’t prove how he’d acquired it, they’d have probably added that to his lesser charges, just like they did the Osea CP burglary. They’d have thrown everything they had at him. The only reason they didn’t pursue it was they saw it was a cheap fake, and that’s why they let him have it back.

And why would SF sell a £6k watch for £150? It’s ridiculous. She probably slung it because it stopped working after a few weeks and it went all discoloured!

I still don’t understand how Agatha acquired these items, unless he’d left them with with someone to look after and told Agatha she could pick them up. The police wouldn’t travel miles to hand deliver a fake watch, gun, Granny Speakman’s papers (which didn’t belong to him & he probably stole from her safe), and that ponytail. FGS...

Suspect the police gave her paperwork of some description and she’d have had to sign for the items

They most certainly wouldn’t have just dropped off these items without paperwork to back it up. It doesn’t work like that.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Was SF ever given a watch by Bamber?

Yes, he gave her a Cartier watch, even though they’d split up and he was with Julie...all weird.

But it would have been a fake like the one he kept.

All that nonsense he made out about stealing them as he needed cash was lies, he came back to the UK with them. He’s not bright at all.

I think he could be wearing that cheap fake one when he was arrested....it looks the same to me. He liked to create an impression...

[Nicholas]

Yes, he gave her a Cartier watch, even though they’d split up and he was with Julie...all weird.

But it would have been a fake like the one he kept.

All that nonsense he made out about stealing them as he needed cash was lies, he came back to the UK with them. He’s not bright at all.

I think he could be wearing that cheap fake one when he was arrested....it looks the same to me. He liked to create an impression...

Why don’t his supporters question this behaviour?

So he gave one watch to SF & kept & wore the other one - why didn’t he give it to JM?


Excerpts courtesy of Carol Ann Lee - ‘The Murders at White House Farm’

“Essex police confirmed that detectives in New Zealand suspected him of a scam, but he fled the country before they caught up with him. Jeremy’s cousin Jaqueline recalled him arriving home much earlier than expected; Neville told her that ‘something’ had occurred in New Zealand, but didn’t explain further. David Bouflour heard from someone that Jeremy ‘was implicated in an armed robbery and killing’ but police investigations uncovered no evidence of either.
 
While Jeremy was away, Sue Ford had sold her house. She was staying at a Colchester hotel when he suddenly turned up, handing her a kangaroo skin purse and telling her to open it. Inside were two Cartier watches. As Sue chose the watch she liked best, Jeremy told her he brought them at Orly airport.

“He acquired the Cartier watches in dubious circumstances and put in a false claim for stolen travellers checks, leaving the country before the police could catch up with him.”

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=sue+ford+cartier+watch+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnKGWhTr&sig=ACfU3U339haExxZNCJiVyGANjamd-psPhw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYp-30kvnoAhWDnVwKHfiGClAQ6AEwCnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=sue%20ford%20cartier%20watch%20bamber&f=false