A Quick Question.

[Vertigo Swirl]

When listening to a sound you may not be able to pinpoint where it is coming from but you do know if it’s on top or below you.

5B was Oldfield, 5H was Payne, Tanner in 5D. If the McCanns had been checking they couldn’t have avoided hearing the crying if it was one of their friend’s children.

We’re told by supporters that Mrs Fenn may have been hard of hearing yet on the other hand that she may have been hearing a child cry several doors away. Which is it ?

I’ve never claimed she was hard of hearing, nor that the crying was from several doors away but I dispute your claim that you can always tell the direction from which a sound is coming.  I also don’t see why the McCanns couldn’t have avoided hearing crying from their friends’ children.  I also question whether this crying was one long 90 munute howl without a moment or two pause for breath every now and again.  90 minutes solid screaming would have me pounding on the door and complaining.

[Miss Taken Identity]

When listening to a sound you may not be able to pinpoint where it is coming from but you do know if it’s on top or below you.

5B was Oldfield, 5H was Payne, Tanner in 5D. If the McCanns had been checking they couldn’t have avoided hearing the crying if it was one of their friend’s children.

We’re told by supporters that Mrs Fenn may have been hard of hearing yet on the other hand that she may have been hearing a child cry several doors away. Which is it ?

All of the above then then some! 

Perhaps her hearing issues are like vision she can't hear things close but can hear things further away, you know like short sighted or long sighted.. I am sure we will be told there is someone on this planet with such a condition.

Poor Mrs Fenn, she knows how to stick the knife in a couple of loving parents who lost a daughter

[faithlilly]

I’ve never claimed she was hard of hearing, nor that the crying was from several doors away but I dispute your claim that you can always tell the direction from which a sound is coming.  I also don’t see why the McCanns couldn’t have avoided hearing crying from their friends’ children.  I also question whether this crying was one long 90 munute howl without a moment or two pause for breath every now and again.  90 minutes solid screaming would have me pounding on the door and complaining.

Firstly Kate herself had said if Madeleine was crying as the walls were paper thin Rachael, who was home that night, would have heard her. If it was one of the neighbouring flats and Mrs Fenn could here the crying then so certainly should the McCanns.

As to the length of crying I believe the child did stop crying but only to sob Daddy, Daddy. She must have taken a breath then.

And yes you can always tell if a sound is coming from above or below you when in a building.

As to Mrs Fenn she shouldn’t be castigate for not wanting to become involved.....a decision that proved to be correct considering the language she was objected to from Kate and Fiona. Nice of her to not mention it in her statement.

[faithlilly]

Kate told others about the open window within minutes of discovering it. Mrs Fenn waited over 3 months before telling the police what she allegedly heard. Rather like the Smith family, Madeleine was not at the forefront of her thoughts. IMO.

And neither should she have been. She should however have been at the forefront of the McCanns thoughts and not left alone and frightened in a unfamiliar apartment.

As to Kate telling the others what does that prove....how long do you think it takes to open a window ?

[faithlilly]

Bump for Brietta

Again no one saw the window open before the alarm but Kate. Does that mean what she saw should be doubted? You really can’t have it both ways.

[Miss Taken Identity]

And neither should she have been. She should however have been at the forefront of the McCanns thoughts and not left alone and frightened in a unfamiliar apartment.

As to Kate telling the others what does that prove....how long do you think it takes to open a window ?

less than 5 seconds... just a guess. But if you were to use a jemmy and raise the shutters, pushe the curtains to one side- and grab a child  and leave without a trace then probably, in the McCann time frame - about 23.7 seconds give or take a nano second or three.   please don't ask for a cite it's is just a guess, I am no expert in abductions.

[misty]

And neither should she have been. She should however have been at the forefront of the McCanns thoughts and not left alone and frightened in a unfamiliar apartment.

As to Kate telling the others what does that prove....how long do you think it takes to open a window ?

There is no evidence Madeleine was frightened. That would suggest awareness of the situation she was left in, which is not backed up by any evidence.
It takes seconds to open a window. If staging a scene, she would have made sure others saw the open window & not just told them about it. 
IMO.

[pathfinder73]

You may leave finger or glove prints when opening a window and evidence was found. It would be interesting to know what the cleaner revealed to Amaral about that window.

You can also say a crime was staged by talking shit especially after tampering with it before the police arrived.

[misty]

You may leave finger or glove prints when opening a window and evidence was found. It would be interesting to know what the cleaner revealed to Amaral about that window.

You can also say a crime was staged by talking shit especially after tampering with it before the police arrived.

Were any prints found on the window handle showing who closed it?

[sadie]

Firstly Kate herself had said if Madeleine was crying as the walls were paper thin Rachael, who was home that night, would have heard her. If it was one of the neighbouring flats and Mrs Fenn could here the crying then so certainly should the McCanns.

As to the length of crying I believe the child did stop crying but only to sob Daddy, Daddy. She must have taken a breath then.



As to Mrs Fenn she shouldn’t be castigate for not wanting to become involved.....a decision that proved to be correct considering the language she was objected to from Kate and Fiona. Nice of her to not mention it in her statement.

If you have perferct hearing you can usually tell the direction that sounds come from.  However Mrs Fen was old and few people of her age have perfect hearing.

I am moderately deaf and I dont have a clue as to the direction that sounds come from

[sadie]

If you have perferct hearing you can usually tell the direction that sounds come from.  However Mrs Fen was old and few people of her age have perfect hearing.

I am moderately deaf and I dont have a clue as to the direction that sounds come from

Furthermore had one of The Mccann children been so distressed and howling and crying out, there would have rapidly become three crying children.  I think that it is highly unlikely that The Mccann children were crying because of this fact.

I have also wondered if the hearing device that the Oldfields were using, had run out of battery or even accidentally not switched on

.... or the crying could have come from adjacent flats or even one above.  Did the Moyes have young children?  Anyone know?

We just dont know .... and it is totally unfair to baldly point the finger at the Mccanns in such a situation.   

There has been far too much pointing of fingers at them on unsubstantiated romours and myths.  Most of which has now been proven untrue.

[Carana]

When listening to a sound you may not be able to pinpoint where it is coming from but you do know if it’s on top or below you.

5B was Oldfield, 5H was Payne, Tanner in 5D. If the McCanns had been checking they couldn’t have avoided hearing the crying if it was one of their friend’s children.

We’re told by supporters that Mrs Fenn may have been hard of hearing yet on the other hand that she may have been hearing a child cry several doors away. Which is it ?

Irrespective of whether she was hard of hearing or not, I'm not and I've had numerous incidents in a building of similar age and discovered that a racket didn't come at all from where it seemed to - including on the wrong floors and sometimes straight across. I've no idea whether that could be the case here, but it's definitely possible.

Of the other couples, I doubt it would have been the Paynes as presumably they would have heard and, from memory, I don't think they ever got up due to their kids crying.

It could have been the Tanner / O'Brien daughter as she was apparently ill that night and might have cried during that time. 

[G-Unit]

Furthermore had one of The Mccann children been so distressed and howling and crying out, there would have rapidly become three crying children.  I think that it is highly unlikely that The Mccann children were crying because of this fact.

I have also wondered if the hearing device that the Oldfields were using, had run out of battery or even accidentally not switched on

.... or the crying could have come from adjacent flats or even one above.  Did the Moyes have young children?  Anyone know?

We just dont know .... and it is totally unfair to baldly point the finger at the Mccanns in such a situation.   

There has been far too much pointing of fingers at them on unsubstantiated romours and myths.  Most of which has now been proven untrue.

The McCann twins were very heavy sleepers, apparently. If Madeleine was in the living room or her parents bedroom her crying wouldn't necessarily have disturbed them.

The Oldfields didn't have a listening device, and the Moyes were older people with no children with them.

[G-Unit]

Irrespective of whether she was hard of hearing or not, I'm not and I've had numerous incidents in a building of similar age and discovered that a racket didn't come at all from where it seemed to - including on the wrong floors and sometimes straight across. I've no idea whether that could be the case here, but it's definitely possible.

Of the other couples, I doubt it would have been the Paynes as presumably they would have heard and, from memory, I don't think they ever got up due to their kids crying.

It could have been the Tanner / O'Brien daughter as she was apparently ill that night and might have cried during that time.

Russell O'Brien doesn't come across as the type to let his daughter cry for so long.

[Carana]

Firstly Kate herself had said if Madeleine was crying as the walls were paper thin Rachael, who was home that night, would have heard her. If it was one of the neighbouring flats and Mrs Fenn could here the crying then so certainly should the McCanns.

As to the length of crying I believe the child did stop crying but only to sob Daddy, Daddy. She must have taken a breath then.

And yes you can always tell if a sound is coming from above or below you when in a building.

As to Mrs Fenn she shouldn’t be castigate for not wanting to become involved.....a decision that proved to be correct considering the language she was objected to from Kate and Fiona. Nice of her to not mention it in her statement.

Re the bold bit: I find that it depends on the nature of the sound. I can hear my upstairs neighbour running a damned bath at 2 am, or stomping around in high heels, but I've never known those sounds to float up as they're direct contact noises.

Someone deciding to drill holes, adults screetching at each other or young kids howling - nope. Not sure why, but I've usually found the source of the sound deceptive.

And I have no hearing problems.