Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible  (Read 18983 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2016, 08:30:57 PM »
Refer to pages 174-5 of Deviant.  At the top of page 657 of the bible, the ball of the right-hand thumb supposedly made the dark circular blob (bottom left), with the little finger forming the dark impression (top right).  The Boxroom door had nothing to do with it, as shown by the absence of any stain on the carpet anywhere near, imo.

Yes I read the relevant secion in Deviant eariler today but I'm still not sure I understand the significance of it all?

It doesn't appear the police/lab even attempted to analyse the blood, I wonder why?

The CT are claiming the note poking out the top might be a suicide note.  And yet there's enough clear handwriting that the top line can be read so surely JB can distinguish between June and SC's handwriting?

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/the-bloodied-bible

Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Myster

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2016, 09:08:02 PM »
Yes I read the relevant secion in Deviant eariler today but I'm still not sure I understand the significance of it all?

It doesn't appear the police/lab even attempted to analyse the blood, I wonder why?

The CT are claiming the note poking out the top might be a suicide note.  And yet there's enough clear handwriting that the top line can be read so surely JB can distinguish between June and SC's handwriting?

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/the-bloodied-bible

According to CAL, page 408, the bible was handed back to the family in 2006 and the note was in June's handwriting.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2016, 10:53:13 AM »
According to CAL, page 408, the bible was handed back to the family in 2006 and the note was in June's handwriting.

I wonder why the bible wasn't forensically analysed and an attempt made to group the blood.  The wallpaper was tested and indicative results matched it to NB's 'O' antigen although it didn't meet the labs internal standards for a definitive conclusion.  And yet it seems the blood staining was much smaller than that on the bible?  Both would have similar porosity.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=229;image

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=231

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/the-bloodied-bible

So many loose ends just left hanging by JB's defence (yes that's you Paul Terzeon and Geoffrey Rivlin.  If it transpires that the pair of you were largely repsonsible for sending an innocent man to jail for 30 plus years and you refuse to accept responsibility and make a public apology I will chain myself naked to Downing St railings until you do or a nice fireman cuts me loose!)
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Opal

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2016, 10:36:08 PM »
A newbie here... having just read Carol Ann Lee's book about the murder and studying the posts here, I see that June's bible was returned to her family in 2006. The stiff card in the bible had the words " Love One Another". In my mind this was the heading from the bible passage.  June then wrote her own interpretation of these words underneath.... "A determination always to act in the others' best interest, whether we feel good or not, whether we like them or not. It is an act of will, commandment to obey. Be determined to be loving and kind to every person you meet whether you like them or not. Lord Jesus in Thy mercy, teach me to love for Thy name's sake, help me to live and speak as a Christian, no matter what others may think".
I therefore cannot see any suggested connection here with this being a suicide note from Sheila. As for the crochet piece at the front of the bible, it has a long tassle so probably a bookmark.

Offline adam

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 04:11:39 AM »
There are lots of questions about the alleged suicide note:


How did Sheila write this in the dark ?

If she didn't write it in the dark, where did she write it ?

Why wasn't Sheila seen writing it by the police,  if written in a room with lights on ?

Why did she write it and put it inside a bible, where it may never be read ?

If the police were aware of the suicide note, why was Bamber charged ?

If Sheila just wanted to kill herself, and wrote the suicide note before the massacre, why didn't she just quietly kill herself. Attempting this while Neville is awake is not the appropriate time. No one needed to wake up or even be at WHF.

If Sheila just wanted to committ suicide, how did it turn into a full blown massacre ?

If the suicide note was written beforehand, and Sheila wanted everyone dead, why didn't she attempt an execution  like massacre while everyone was asleep. Rather than let Neville make one/two phone calls ?

Did the crime scene investigators see the suicide note and disclose it to the police ? If so why wasn't Bamber or other relations told about this ?

If it was Sheila's plan to commit suicide, do supporters agree with the judge, that the alleged conversation about fostering that night, is not relevant ?

If Sheila's plan was to kill herself and all immediate family members (except Bamber), who was the suicide note supposed to be left for ?

If Sheila went into an unplanned rage and killed everyone, was she then calm enough to write a suicide note ?

If Sheila read the bible and wrote the suicide note in another room, where there were lights on, why was the bible and suicide note not left in this room ?

The page the bible was open on, is apparently what people read prior to suicide. Does this page say a suicide note must be written ?

If the bible and suicide note were read & written in another room where there was light, why didn't Sheila also kill herself in this room ?

Should a suicide note not been shown to Bamber straight away ? He was the closest surviving relatives to everyone and the suicide note may be addressed to him.

If the bible just fell on the floor, next to Sheila, as claimed, do people still believe a suicide note was in it ?

Should a suicide note not have been shown to CC straight away. Together with Bamber he was the closest surviving relative.

Do supporters and guilters disagree with the campaign team and believe there was no suicide note. No suicide does not make Bamber guilty.

When did Bamber first make the suicide note allegation ?

If Sheila did write the suicide note in the dark, why is the pen not by the bible ?

It was June's bible, so is it not likely to be her notes in it ? She did read the bible constantly. Is this not the most logical explanation ?

If Sheila spontaneously killed everyone in a rage, would she have pre planned in her mind what a suicide note would say ? Some people may take months preparing their suicide notes. Sheila had hardly any time.

Should the campaign team retract this claim ?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 04:17:41 AM by adam »

Offline Opal

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 11:58:11 PM »
Good questions Adam.... one other question.

Why wasn't there a bible by June's bed? A person so devout would surely read the bible before sleep. There is a lot of books on June's side of the bed, but also a space where the bible could have been placed before sleep.

Was the bible moved from the bedside at some point?

Offline Myster

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2016, 06:55:28 AM »
Hello Opal!

It was June's bible, the one she was familiar with studying when she couldn't sleep (which was suggested by her brother-in-law Robert Boutflour), and yes, usually stored on the small cabinet at her bedside.

My own view as you've probably read, is that she was reading it when the shooting broke out in the bedroom. Having first been shot with her head on the pillow, she immediately put one of her hands up to the neck wound (or one of her other wounds), which then became covered in blood. As she was trying to get out of bed her right hand pressed on a page of the opened bible leaving a palm print. Notice that further fingerprints from the same hand don't extend around the book's top edge or front, which would indicate that it wasn't taken hold of and carried around the room. The bible then closed, perhaps through disturbance of the bedclothes, which caused a faint mirror image to appear on the opposite page. When the shooting was over with everyone dead, Jeremy Bamber reopened the bible at the stained pages and placed it on Sheila's arm to give the impression that she killed her family in a religious frenzy and was seeking atonement by reading from it before committing suicide.

Caroline undertook some research on the bloodstain which was mentioned by Paul Harrison in "Deviant".  I've read very little about her findings, but maybe if she's around sometime she can point you in the right direction.

The open bible and bloodstain, with a female right-hand print for comparison, more easily viewed by saving and opening the image on your own computer...
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 07:44:35 AM by Myster »

Offline adam

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2016, 09:16:52 AM »
There is no evidence Sheila read the bible. If she did, the bible does not promote murder or suicide. It is against it.

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2016, 09:23:45 AM »
So many loose ends just left hanging by JB's defence (yes that's you Paul Terzeon and Geoffrey Rivlin.  If it transpires that the pair of you were largely repsonsible for sending an innocent man to jail for 30 plus years and you refuse to accept responsibility and make a public apology I will chain myself naked to Downing St railings until you do or a nice fireman cuts me loose!)

Oh my Holly, a bit extreme what?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Myster

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2016, 11:37:54 AM »
I've got my bolt cutters handy and hired a fireman's costume, so... ready when you are, Holly.

I was really envious of the policeman who covered Erica Roe's bazookas and escorted her off the Twickenham pitch in '82.  8(8-))
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 11:40:14 AM by Myster »

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2016, 07:48:06 PM »
Hello Opal!

It was June's bible, the one she was familiar with studying when she couldn't sleep (which was suggested by her brother-in-law Robert Boutflour), and yes, usually stored on the small cabinet at her bedside.

My own view as you've probably read, is that she was reading it when the shooting broke out in the bedroom. Having first been shot with her head on the pillow, she immediately put one of her hands up to the neck wound (or one of her other wounds), which then became covered in blood. As she was trying to get out of bed her right hand pressed on a page of the opened bible leaving a palm print. Notice that further fingerprints from the same hand don't extend around the book's top edge or front, which would indicate that it wasn't taken hold of and carried around the room. The bible then closed, perhaps through disturbance of the bedclothes, which caused a faint mirror image to appear on the opposite page. When the shooting was over with everyone dead, Jeremy Bamber reopened the bible at the stained pages and placed it on Sheila's arm to give the impression that she killed her family in a religious frenzy and was seeking atonement by reading from it before committing suicide.

Caroline undertook some research on the bloodstain which was mentioned by Paul Harrison in "Deviant".  I've read very little about her findings, but maybe if she's around sometime she can point you in the right direction.

The open bible and bloodstain, with a female right-hand print for comparison, more easily viewed by saving and opening the image on your own computer...

It's not a palm print. It sat on carpeting that had blood on it that resulted in it transferring to the parts of the pages that that were against the ground sitting in the blood.  The pages were folded over in a manner that resulted in the outer left and outer right being on the ground. The stain thus carried across the top of the part of the left page that was adjacent to it.

It was rather obvious the blood is Sheila's because it was sitting in Sheila's blood pool. But even if it had been someone else's blood pool it made no difference to them.  It didn't occur to them that the blood pool formed after her death and thus that someone else had to put the Bible in it.  Only on appeal did experts point such out to the prosecution.  They argued such to the Court of Appeals in 2002 but the Court said tough luck you should have recognized such back in 1985 and thus it was not allowed in as new evidence.

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Myster

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2016, 09:06:21 PM »
The trouble is we don't know how far the blood pool extended beyond her arm underneath the bible because it's hidden. If the large stain was transferred off the carpet in the region of arrow 1, then a comparable large stain should be present on the opposite page from the region of arrow 2, but there isn't one. You can just make out a small dark area of what appears to be blood on the carpet in the gap between her arm and the bible, so both pages should be similarly stained if copious blood spread outwards from the arm region. I think we might have to disagree on this point.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2016, 03:34:15 AM »
The trouble is we don't know how far the blood pool extended beyond her arm underneath the bible because it's hidden. If the large stain was transferred off the carpet in the region of arrow 1, then a comparable large stain should be present on the opposite page from the region of arrow 2, but there isn't one. You can just make out a small dark area of what appears to be blood on the carpet in the gap between her arm and the bible, so both pages should be similarly stained if copious blood spread outwards from the arm region. I think we might have to disagree on this point.

You are assuming there is no blood underneath the Bible though surely there was some. The tech that printed the Bible found no prints of any kind in blood.  If there had been a palm print then the tech would have recognized it. Even blown up you don't see a heart line, life line etc and in person the tech would have the ultimate view.

The way the pages were folded the part right side sat in the largest amount of blood. While most of the blood on the right side of the page is under the Bible the bulk that the left touched is above the Bible hence why the left side has a smaller amount.

I folded a book in the same manner and stuck it in a puddle of green liquid to simulate blood and it looks a lot like that, I posted it on blue quite a while ago when we debated this whole issue.

Sheila had no blood on the inside of her hands so Jeremy would have to be the source if it had been a hand print.  Jeremy would have to be the biggest moron on the planet to get blood on his bare hands and then to wipe it on the Bible leaving his palm print and there is nothing to indicate such is the case.

Gloves that lack a pattern which are totally soaked in blood would leave the same sort of impression as carpeting would except that in addition there would be marks down the top side continuing to the back cover of the Bible from where the fingers were. It is not impossible that he had enough blood on his gloves to leave that sort of mark but quite unlikely. The carpet is a much more likely source. The victims were not stabbed or cut so the blood would be sporadic on his gloves not totally soaked and there were no finger marks, the back is blood free.

It is always possible it is a mix of blood on his gloves combined with blood on the rug but again I would expect it on the cover then.

This photo gives a really good view of just how far the right page was bent over and illustrating how it was near the blood stain
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 03:42:34 AM by scipio_usmc »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Opal

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2016, 11:52:53 PM »
Surely the darker patches of blood in the bible are where the blood was the thickest. I've been studying the open bible photos against the blood on and around Shelia. From the photos I've seen there isn't much blood where the bible lays. I would much prefer a photo of the bible showing the bend of pages and the bookmark (crochet) still in the book....can't find one though! Thanks for photo of the bible though Myster. I've looked at the blood on the covers of the bed...June's side. It appears to me that the book has fallen together slightly hence the mirror image of some marks, but not the top pages, did the bible slip down? Were these pages open against either June or Shelia's chest? I personally think the bible was placed on Shelia by the killer after she was killed, as if the bible was there before she was killed then the blood from the gun shots would have run much more onto the pages of the bible. I also believe that the Police disturbed the the bible when they first located her body, hence the position of the bible in photos plus the removal of the crochet bookmark. We are looking at the bible 'Open' turning it over makes the larger marks of blood on the left hand side where there doesn't appear to be much blood, so has the bible slipped down from near her throat after being placed there? Regarding the bed covers turned back in Shelia's room - It appears to me that Shelia had been in bed as the eiderdown cover on the bed she was using to sleep were photo'd trailing on the floor which would happen as you moved in bed. The other bed shows the eiderdown in it's correct place, just turning down a cover in preparation for bed would not cause the eiderdown to slip on the floor.  I look forward to your comments...... 8(0(*

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2016, 06:34:44 PM »
Surely the darker patches of blood in the bible are where the blood was the thickest. I've been studying the open bible photos against the blood on and around Shelia. From the photos I've seen there isn't much blood where the bible lays. I would much prefer a photo of the bible showing the bend of pages and the bookmark (crochet) still in the book....can't find one though! Thanks for photo of the bible though Myster. I've looked at the blood on the covers of the bed...June's side. It appears to me that the book has fallen together slightly hence the mirror image of some marks, but not the top pages, did the bible slip down? Were these pages open against either June or Shelia's chest? I personally think the bible was placed on Shelia by the killer after she was killed, as if the bible was there before she was killed then the blood from the gun shots would have run much more onto the pages of the bible. I also believe that the Police disturbed the the bible when they first located her body, hence the position of the bible in photos plus the removal of the crochet bookmark. We are looking at the bible 'Open' turning it over makes the larger marks of blood on the left hand side where there doesn't appear to be much blood, so has the bible slipped down from near her throat after being placed there? Regarding the bed covers turned back in Shelia's room - It appears to me that Shelia had been in bed as the eiderdown cover on the bed she was using to sleep were photo'd trailing on the floor which would happen as you moved in bed. The other bed shows the eiderdown in it's correct place, just turning down a cover in preparation for bed would not cause the eiderdown to slip on the floor.  I look forward to your comments...... 8(0(*

What do you mean by on Sheila?  Do you mean next to her against her arm where it was?

Only the biggest moron alive would place the Bible across her chest on top of the rifle.  It would be impossible for her to be holding it as she killed herself so that it would be across her chest on top of the rifle. That would be a sure sign someone placed it there after killing her.  Even Jeremy would recognize this so if he did place it on her chest and some blood transferred from her gown to the Bible then after he removed it to place the rifle on her there is no way he would place it back on top of the gun so instead placed it on the floor next to her.  No photos of the carpet after the Bible was removed have been publicly released.

There is no question the Bible fully closed then was reopened to the same page to create the mirror image marks.



“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli