Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible  (Read 17921 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #195 on: May 08, 2016, 08:02:20 PM »
Once could be a coincidence but twice?  No way.

We don't have RB's WS here, but he states when RB and PB visited June in a psychiatric hospital in 1982 June feared her life was coming to an end.  June also thought they were being listened to on the ward, so to appease June RB took her to his car where I believe June drafted various letters etc in the event of her death.

IMO this was a family under a lot of strain and very dysfunctional and I don't believe it had anything to do with JB.
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Opal

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #196 on: May 08, 2016, 09:28:27 PM »
I agree that the family had lots of problems, but that doesn’t exclude JB. Many neighbours friends and teachers spoke of his weird ways and attitude.

Robert B told detectives in his WS 10th September 1985 that he’d had a word with JB about tackling any intruders at Osea Road. (this meeting was about security and held on 20th June 1985 )  RB warning JB about committing a crime that would prey on his conscience: Jeremy then made an extraordinary statement “ Oh no Uncle Bobby, that wouldn’t worry me, I could easily kill my parents” !  RB supposedly then stormed off.

IMO...If this comment was ever proved to be false JB was still far from innocent...stealing, drugs, aggression, burglary.....what a son to be proud off!

June's Letter written from the hospital.

MY DARLINGS – NEVILL, SHEILA & JEM
SHOULD ANYTHING HAPPEN TO ME AND I HAVE TO LEAVE YOU, I WRITE THIS TO TELL YOU OF MY LOVE FOR YOU AND TO THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU HAVE GIVEN ME.  ALL I ASK IS THAT GOD WILL LOVE AND PROTECT YOU THROUGH THE YEARS AHEAD, AND THAT SOME DAY, GOD WILLING, WE MAY MEET AGAIN.
MY LOVE ALWAYS MY DARLINGS
MUMS.





« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 09:37:43 PM by Opal »

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #197 on: May 08, 2016, 09:32:59 PM »
I agree that the family had lots of problems, but that doesn’t exclude JB. Many neighbours friends and teachers spoke of his weird ways and attitude.

Robert B told detectives in his WS 10th September 1985 that he’d had a word with JB about tackling any intruders at Osea Road. (this meeting was about security and held on 20th June 1985 )  RB warning JB about committing a crime that would prey on his conscience: Jeremy then made an extraordinary statement “ Oh no Uncle Bobby, that wouldn’t worry me, I could easily kill my parents” !  RB supposedly then stormed off.

[b[IMO...If this comment was ever proved to be false JB was still far from innocent...stealing, drugs, aggression, burglary.....what a son to be proud off![/b]

And that was only in England, add to that the New Zealand fiasco.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Caroline

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #198 on: May 09, 2016, 04:17:43 PM »
A lot of text is definitely there... but maybe not as easily seen on small laptop/tablet screens as on my own large widescreen monitor.

As I mentioned above, it's most likely an impression from a handwritten sheet which someone has placed on top of the photograph, and pressed down hard while they were writing. In fact... it all appears to be in upper case, so it could very well be in Jeremy Bamber's hand.

I was going to suggest it might be down to screen quality - but you already have :)

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #199 on: May 09, 2016, 05:06:57 PM »
I agree that the family had lots of problems, but that doesn’t exclude JB. Many neighbours friends and teachers spoke of his weird ways and attitude.

Robert B told detectives in his WS 10th September 1985 that he’d had a word with JB about tackling any intruders at Osea Road. (this meeting was about security and held on 20th June 1985 )  RB warning JB about committing a crime that would prey on his conscience: Jeremy then made an extraordinary statement “ Oh no Uncle Bobby, that wouldn’t worry me, I could easily kill my parents” !  RB supposedly then stormed off.

IMO...If this comment was ever proved to be false JB was still far from innocent...stealing, drugs, aggression, burglary.....what a son to be proud off!

June's Letter written from the hospital.

MY DARLINGS – NEVILL, SHEILA & JEM
SHOULD ANYTHING HAPPEN TO ME AND I HAVE TO LEAVE YOU, I WRITE THIS TO TELL YOU OF MY LOVE FOR YOU AND TO THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU HAVE GIVEN ME.  ALL I ASK IS THAT GOD WILL LOVE AND PROTECT YOU THROUGH THE YEARS AHEAD, AND THAT SOME DAY, GOD WILLING, WE MAY MEET AGAIN.
MY LOVE ALWAYS MY DARLINGS
MUMS.

Who's to say what's "weird ways" and  "attitude"?  Even if by most peoples' standards someone has "weird ways" and "attitude" does this make someone capable of mass murder?  Remember what was said about Christopher Jefferies?   

Writing in London's Evening Standard on 5 January 2011, media commentator Roy Greenslade expressed concern over a number of negative articles that had appeared in newspapers concerning Yeates' landlord, Jefferies, following his arrest, describing the coverage as "character assassination on a large scale".[131] He cited several examples of headlines and stories that had been published, including a headline in The Sun describing Jefferies – a former schoolmaster at Clifton College – as weird, posh, lewd and creepy; a story from the Daily Express quoting unnamed former pupils referring to him as "... a sort of Nutty Professor" who made them feel "creeped out" by his "strange" behaviour; and an article from the Daily Telegraph, which reported Jefferies "has been described by pupils at Clifton College ... as a fan of dark and violent avant-garde films".[131] Jefferies launched legal action against six newspapers on 21 April – The Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Daily Star, the Daily Express, the Daily Mail and the Daily Record – seeking damages for libel.[125]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Joanna_Yeates

You mention JB displaying aggression I wasn't aware of this?  Like most of us he wasn't perfect.  All the things you accuse JB of, apart from aggression, JM had also participated in?  None of the main protagonists come out well including NB and June in trying to dictate to their adult children about matters that were none of their business.

I was aware of the letter.  This was the one held by the family accountant, Basil Cock, and read out at trial.  I thought June also made other requests to RB too? 

Yes the family did have a lot of problems and imo they centered around SC, her mental illness, welfare of the twins and June's mental illness.
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Caroline

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #200 on: May 09, 2016, 07:07:41 PM »
You mention JB displaying aggression I wasn't aware of this?  Like most of us he wasn't perfect.  All the things you accuse JB of, apart from aggression, JM had also participated in?  None of the main protagonists come out well including NB and June in trying to dictate to their adult children about matters that were none of their business.

There is a difference between participation and instigation.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #201 on: May 09, 2016, 07:23:56 PM »
There is a difference between participation and instigation.

Not in the eyes of the law both are criminal offences.

JB wasn't part of the cheque book fraud.
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Caroline

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #202 on: May 09, 2016, 07:26:23 PM »
Not in the eyes of the law both are criminal offences.

JB wasn't part of the cheque book fraud.

Well actually he was because he accepted stolen goods. I think we both know the difference morally between instigation and participation.

Offline Opal

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #203 on: May 09, 2016, 07:46:25 PM »
Who's to say what's "weird ways" and  "attitude"?  Even if by most peoples' standards someone has "weird ways" and "attitude" does this make someone capable of mass murder?  Remember what was said about Christopher Jefferies?   

Writing in London's Evening Standard on 5 January 2011, media commentator Roy Greenslade expressed concern over a number of negative articles that had appeared in newspapers concerning Yeates' landlord, Jefferies, following his arrest, describing the coverage as "character assassination on a large scale".[131] He cited several examples of headlines and stories that had been published, including a headline in The Sun describing Jefferies – a former schoolmaster at Clifton College – as weird, posh, lewd and creepy; a story from the Daily Express quoting unnamed former pupils referring to him as "... a sort of Nutty Professor" who made them feel "creeped out" by his "strange" behaviour; and an article from the Daily Telegraph, which reported Jefferies "has been described by pupils at Clifton College ... as a fan of dark and violent avant-garde films".[131] Jefferies launched legal action against six newspapers on 21 April – The Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Daily Star, the Daily Express, the Daily Mail and the Daily Record – seeking damages for libel.[125]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Joanna_Yeates

You mention JB displaying aggression I wasn't aware of this?  Like most of us he wasn't perfect.  All the things you accuse JB of, apart from aggression, JM had also participated in?  None of the main protagonists come out well including NB and June in trying to dictate to their adult children about matters that were none of their business.

I was aware of the letter.  This was the one held by the family accountant, Basil Cock, and read out at trial.  I thought June also made other requests to RB too? 

Yes the family did have a lot of problems and imo they centered around SC, her mental illness, welfare of the twins and June's mental illness.

Regarding the aggression  shown by JB.... JM states he was aggressive to her grabbing hold of her arm and pulling it up her back during an argument. You give Christopher Jefferies as an innocent example of a weird person as told by students... I can't see him grabbing someone's arm up their back he wasn't aggressive just strange.  In my post I gave a statement from RB to police that can also be termed as showing aggression.

Regarding June and Neville Bamber trying to help their children....you say it was nothing to do with them....they were still only in their 20's...it wasn't interference it was trying to make them stand on their own two feet i.e JB to work on the farm and SC to work at Osea.  Where would JB and SC have been without  being given Bourtree Cottage, a car, and a flat in London for SC....I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #204 on: May 09, 2016, 09:01:11 PM »
Regarding the aggression  shown by JB.... JM states he was aggressive to her grabbing hold of her arm and pulling it up her back during an argument. You give Christopher Jefferies as an innocent example of a weird person as told by students... I can't see him grabbing someone's arm up their back he wasn't aggressive just strange.  In my post I gave a statement from RB to police that can also be termed as showing aggression.

Regarding June and Neville Bamber trying to help their children....you say it was nothing to do with them....they were still only in their 20's...it wasn't interference it was trying to make them stand on their own two feet i.e JB to work on the farm and SC to work at Osea.  Where would JB and SC have been without  being given Bourtree Cottage, a car, and a flat in London for SC....I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

JM said she she slapped JB acrosss the face and he pushed her arm up her back.  JB said this was to restrain her.  Apart from this there's no evidence of JB being aggressive.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1134

SC was violent towards CC.  CC gave SC a black eye.

NB and June were in a position to help out their adult children financially.  Happens in millions of middle class homes across the globe.  Last week published research showed parents were set to lend their children a total of 5 billion towards home purchase with 50% saying it's a gift:

http://www.bullockandleeswareham.co.uk/news/articles/Parents-set-to-lend-5-billion-to-buy-property-801817870.aspx

I was referring to NB and June's interference in terms of June telling CC she hoped the relationship with SC had ended after SC's termination which it seems June encouraged; telling JM she was a harlot for staying at JB's; and NB telling JB he had to end his relationship with Suzette Ford or face being disinherited.  What was wrong with CC, JM and SF?  No doubt if SC and JB were dating local landowners the Bambers would have been overjoyed.  Most adults in this country, apart from those who subscribe to arranged marriages, expect to choose their partners and not have their parents interfering.  I could maybe appreciate it if CC, JM or SF were really unsavoury characters but that's not how they appear.
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #205 on: March 31, 2018, 12:40:22 PM »
They only tested the carpet near her feet and at the foot of the bed. They did not test the big stain that was near the Bible. They figured that pool of blood had to be hers.  Likewise they figured the blood near June had to be hers so did not test that either.   

Of the 2 carpet samples they did take to test they only test 5 drops on each not all. So there was a considerable amount of blood on the rugs that went untested.  Nor did they test any of the blood that was on the bedding.

That is why time and again I have pointed out to you that there was a lot of untested blood that could have belonged to Nevill, we have no way to know.

There was a trial of blood they followed which went from the foot of the bed to the area near her legs including dripping on the socks.  They tested such blood to figure out who was walking around the bed. In theory that could help them figure out who the killer was.  They saw no value in testing the blood under the Bible or near June or in the bed which they figured belonged to the victims near such blood.

Because they did test such blood that is how we know that June walked around the bed. Had they not tested the blood we would not have known that. 

It is presumed that the blood on the Bible was Sheila's. It was sitting in a pool of blood that they presumed was hers. if it wasn't hers that would not help them figure out who the killer was unless it belonged to none of the victims which would mean it came from the killer and that the killer was someone other than Sheila.  They didn't have any expectations the killer bled all over the Bible though.  I don't fault them for not thinking such.

They tested the blood on her gown because they suspected she was the killer and were trying to see if they could find blood from other victims.

They tested the rifle to try to see whose blood was on it because such blood would also be on the killer.

If this had been an attack with a knife or the like they would have to have tested every drop of blood everywhere because the killer's blood might be found. That moreso is significant today because DNA testing can better identify who blood belongs to.

They did fingerprint the Bible but found no prints in blood so were not concerned about the blood type though they assumed it was Sheila's.

 

And Jeremy Bamber requested said carpets were destroyed. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/past-crimes-the-bamber-files-2046383.html

There's no getting away from the facts of this case, no matter how hard supporters try.

There aren't endless possibilities, just people's furtive imaginations - some more apparent than others.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 12:52:24 PM by Stephanie »
"When flying monkeys come calling, just click your ruby slippers together and remember that even narcs can be defeated once you know the truth"

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #206 on: March 31, 2018, 02:23:06 PM »
And Jeremy Bamber requested said carpets were destroyed. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/past-crimes-the-bamber-files-2046383.html

There's no getting away from the facts of this case, no matter how hard supporters try.

There aren't endless possibilities, just people's furtive imaginations - some more apparent than others.

That's not actually true Stephanie.  DS Jones asked JB if he wanted heavily blood stained items destroyed:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1056.0;attach=2206

Given the police considered the soc murder/suicide they still did a good job IMO of collecting and documenting everything immediately obvious.  Same for police photographer DC Bird. 

Had these exhibits not been destroyed against police protocol they would almost certainly either exonerate JB or seal his fate:

165. In February 1996, the Essex police destroyed many of the original trial exhibits without reference to the appellant or his legal representatives. It might have been necessary for this court to examine the circumstances in which this had happened. The police officer responsible contended that it was done without his appreciating that there was any on-going legal process that might require the further use of the exhibits. However, during argument it was agreed that the court could protect the appellant's position by making assumptions in his favour and that, therefore, it was unnecessary to resolve precisely how this came about.

Above is from:

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html



Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #207 on: March 31, 2018, 02:59:33 PM »
That's not actually true Stephanie.  DS Jones asked JB if he wanted heavily blood stained items destroyed:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1056.0;attach=2206

Given the police considered the soc murder/suicide they still did a good job IMO of collecting and documenting everything immediately obvious.  Same for police photographer DC Bird. 

Had these exhibits not been destroyed against police protocol they would almost certainly either exonerate JB or seal his fate:

165. In February 1996, the Essex police destroyed many of the original trial exhibits without reference to the appellant or his legal representatives. It might have been necessary for this court to examine the circumstances in which this had happened. The police officer responsible contended that it was done without his appreciating that there was any on-going legal process that might require the further use of the exhibits. However, during argument it was agreed that the court could protect the appellant's position by making assumptions in his favour and that, therefore, it was unnecessary to resolve precisely how this came about.

Above is from:

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

Can you point me to where I can read, in his own words, about ever regretting saying yes to their destruction? He seems to have a habit of blaming everyone else for his own mistakes. The police on the other hand appear to have been quite the opposite and indeed transparent.
"When flying monkeys come calling, just click your ruby slippers together and remember that even narcs can be defeated once you know the truth"

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #208 on: March 31, 2018, 03:12:24 PM »
Can you point me to where I can read, in his own words, about ever regretting saying yes to their destruction? He seems to have a habit of blaming everyone else for his own mistakes. The police on the other hand appear to have been quite the opposite and indeed transparent.

As far as I can see there was nothing of evidential value destroyed pre trial. 

My understanding is that post trial the police have a duty to hold trial exhibits indefinitely.  Whether their destruction was a genuine oversight or something more sinister who knows?!  If JB is innocent those exhibits could almost certainly exonerate him. 

Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92