Author Topic: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?  (Read 177 times)

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Offline puglove

Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« on: August 04, 2018, 11:57:25 PM »
I know we've been here before. But you can't deny that the gun would have been smothered in Sheila's prints. According to you, she didn't just shoot, she turned the gun around and battered Nevill with it. Every part of that gun would have been covered with Sheila's prints.


This is why Bamber will stay where he is. Because he's a mean son of a bitch. And a raving psychopath.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 06:28:23 PM by John »
There was an old woman called P@
Who worshipped a murdering tw@
She typed all day long
Getting everything wrong
Then her pussyc@ sh@ in her h@.

Offline APRIL

Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 12:16:27 PM »
I know we've been here before. But you can't deny that the gun would have been smothered in Sheila's prints. According to you, she didn't just shoot, she turned the gun around and battered Nevill with it. Every part of that gun would have been covered with Sheila's prints.


This is why Bamber will stay where he is. Because he's a mean son of a bitch. And a raving psychopath.


Strangely, just last week, my gun expert friend ran through what Sheila would have needed to do, not only to fire the gun but to reload it. As she couldn't have done it with her teeth, the gun, and the thingy that holds the bullets would, of necessity, have been handled and covered in her fingerprints. Then there's the wielding of gun in order to bring it down on Nevill's head. I accept that Jeremy would have worn gloves, but Sheila? I believe they found just one print of hers on the gun.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 06:28:50 PM by John »

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2018, 12:18:55 PM »
I know we've been here before. But you can't deny that the gun would have been smothered in Sheila's prints. According to you, she didn't just shoot, she turned the gun around and battered Nevill with it. Every part of that gun would have been covered with Sheila's prints.

This is why Bamber will stay where he is. Because he's a mean son of a bitch. And a raving psychopath.

Yes we have been here before and I know you ain't stupid and you've got a memory like an elephant, so I'm assuming you're just wanting to toy with my emotions!   8)><(

So, for the benefit of interested observers Myster is in receipt of email exchange between myself and a physicist/forensic scientist who is arguably the world's leading expert on fingerprints.  He confirmed latent fingerprints are notoriously difficult to lift from firearms due to the coating known as 'bluing'. 

DI Cook told CAL had SC have been responsible he would have expected to have found more of SC's fingerprints on the rifle.  DI Cook was supposedly the fingerprint expert! 

Why do commentators always bring up the lack of fingerprints on rifle but overlook the silencer?  And more importantly overlook the fact the casings were destroyed in 1996 against all protocols depriving JB of the possibility of using a new technology capable of lifting latent fingerprints from small cylindrical objects. 

The buck must stop with the Home Office over poor training and supervision. 

DI Cook - oblivious to the above (rifle).
DC Bird - Inexperienced soc photographer.  Keep duff copies for audit.
DC Hammersly - Inexperienced swabbing hands - WHF first such occasion.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 06:29:15 PM by John »
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline APRIL

Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2018, 12:42:19 PM »
Yes we have been here before and I know you ain't stupid and you've got a memory like an elephant, so I'm assuming you're just wanting to toy with my emotions!   8)><(

So, for the benefit of interested observers Myster is in receipt of email exchange between myself and a physicist/forensic scientist who is arguably the world's leading expert on fingerprints.  He confirmed latent fingerprints are notoriously difficult to lift from firearms due to the coating known as 'bluing'. 

DI Cook told CAL had SC have been responsible he would have expected to have found more of SC's fingerprints on the rifle.  DI Cook was supposedly the fingerprint expert! 

Why do commentators always bring up the lack of fingerprints on rifle but overlook the silencer?  And more importantly overlook the fact the casings were destroyed in 1996 against all protocols depriving JB of the possibility of using a new technology capable of lifting latent fingerprints from small cylindrical objects. 

The buck must stop with the Home Office over poor training and supervision. 

DI Cook - oblivious to the above (rifle).
DC Bird - Inexperienced soc photographer.  Keep duff copies for audit.
DC Hammersly - Inexperienced swabbing hands - WHF first such occasion.


Does "notoriously difficult" mean totally impossible? Someone who was gun savvy could probably have gone through all the motions with the minimum of handling, but someone who'd never done it before? Could they have demonstrated such competence? There's a whole lot of gun for them only to have found one/a partial print of Sheila's on it.

Offline John

Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2018, 12:48:06 PM »
And, Holl. I know we've been here before. But you can't deny that the gun would have been smothered in Sheila's prints. According to you, she didn't just shoot, she turned the gun around and battered Nevill with it. Every part of that gun would have been covered with Sheila's prints.


This is why Bamber will stay where he is. Because he's a mean son of a bitch. And a raving psychopath.

I agree wholeheartedly Puggy, the rifle was clearly handled by someone wearing gloves.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2018, 06:51:36 PM »

Does "notoriously difficult" mean totally impossible? Someone who was gun savvy could probably have gone through all the motions with the minimum of handling, but someone who'd never done it before? Could they have demonstrated such competence? There's a whole lot of gun for them only to have found one/a partial print of Sheila's on it.

I think you've answered your own question April.  As you've rightly pointed out one of SC's fingerprints was obtained so no it's not "impossible" that's why I said "notoriously difficult".  Perhaps getting a bit carried away with "notoriously".!  
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2018, 07:01:21 PM »
I agree wholeheartedly Puggy, the rifle was clearly handled by someone wearing gloves.

I diagree.  The fact a fingerprint from SC and JB was found is consistent with both of them handling the rifle at some point in time.  The whole glove thing has no substance to it.  DS Jones asked JB during his police interviews if he wore gloves when handling the rifle.  It shows EP had a dire lack of training in this regard.  I've highlighted my email contact with a world expert on fingerprints which is reiterated in the following:

http://www.scafo.org/library/130303.html


"Factors Affecting the Recovery of Latent Prints on Firearms".

"Jurors have been inundated with fingerprint information from television, movies and newspapers and feel that latent print evidence is a reliable means of establishing positive personal identity [5]. However, jurors are generally under the impression that every item that is touched by fingers or palms will be left with an identifiable latent print impression [6]. If an offender is arrested for possession of a firearms, jurors therefore expect his/her prints to be on it. In fact, most of the time, fingerprint specialists find no identifiable latent prints on firearms. Accordingly, attorneys often call on the fingerprint specialist to explain to the jury the many reasons for the absence of identifiable latent prints.  The following reasons make latent print recovery from firearms difficult and when they are recovered, the time of deposition can seldom be determined.  The purpose of this paper is to provide information to both technical and non--technical users of fingerprint identification services about what factors affect the recovery of latent prints on firearms".




Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline John

Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 06:13:09 PM »
Yes we have been here before and I know you ain't stupid and you've got a memory like an elephant, so I'm assuming you're just wanting to toy with my emotions!   8)><(

So, for the benefit of interested observers Myster is in receipt of email exchange between myself and a physicist/forensic scientist who is arguably the world's leading expert on fingerprints.  He confirmed latent fingerprints are notoriously difficult to lift from firearms due to the coating known as 'bluing'. 

DI Cook told CAL had SC have been responsible he would have expected to have found more of SC's fingerprints on the rifle.  DI Cook was supposedly the fingerprint expert! 

Why do commentators always bring up the lack of fingerprints on rifle but overlook the silencer?  And more importantly overlook the fact the casings were destroyed in 1996 against all protocols depriving JB of the possibility of using a new technology capable of lifting latent fingerprints from small cylindrical objects. 

The buck must stop with the Home Office over poor training and supervision. 

DI Cook - oblivious to the above (rifle).
DC Bird - Inexperienced soc photographer.  Keep duff copies for audit.
DC Hammersly - Inexperienced swabbing hands - WHF first such occasion.

I totally agree with Puggy.  Had Sheila used the rifle her fingerprints would be the primary ones on it and all over it.  Any fingerprint expert can tell which print is the older print when two prints overlap. 

We know the rifle was used to beat Nevill around the head so there should have been many prints all over it but there weren't. The only explanation for this would be either the perp wore gloves or the rifle was wiped clean before new prints were applied.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 06:23:38 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline IndigoJ

Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 10:41:16 PM »
was the gun magazine or any unspent shell casings tested for prints?

Offline John

Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 12:54:02 AM »
was the gun magazine or any unspent shell casings tested for prints?

Yes, undoubtedly the entire assembly would have been checked for fingerprints and blood.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline IndigoJ

Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2018, 08:44:15 AM »
Yes, undoubtedly the entire assembly would have been checked for fingerprints and blood.

and what were the results?

Offline John

A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2018, 09:04:11 AM »
and what were the results?

Although the magazine detaches it forms an integral part of the rifle.  A summary of the fingerprint results from CoA doc:


72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

http://www.homepage-link.to/Justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2018, 09:06:40 AM »
Although much has been made about fingerprints on the rifle we hear nothing about fingerprints on the silencer which was clearly handled extensively ungloved by the relatives and others. 
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Was the absence of fingerprints on the rifle relevant?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2018, 09:11:19 AM »
Up until recently it was difficult if not impossible to recover fingerprints from small cylindrical objects eg casings.  New technology CERA now permits:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UwiHV7nnG8g

Had the casings not been destroyed against all protocols it would have afforded JB the opportunity of attempting to recover fingerprints from the casings ie who loaded the mag!
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms