Author Topic: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.  (Read 66941 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #120 on: October 29, 2019, 09:49:04 PM »
From http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-panic911.htm:
"04-18-2000 Steve Thomas, "JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation"

Page 18-19:

(Referencing Sergeant Reichenbach) "He called for more officers, crime scene techicians to search for evidence, and victim advocates to comfort and help the Ramseys, alerted the phone company to put a trap on the Ramsey telephone; and notified the on-call detective supervisor, Sergeant Bob Whitson. Further radio traffic was ordered to cease to prevent the kidnappers from picking up police broadcasts with a scanner. Communication would be by phone, and therefore less effective."

"The sergeant found no evidence of forced entry during a walk through the house, then went outside. A light dusting of snow and frost lay atop an earlier crusty snow in spotty patches on the grass. He saw no fresh show impressions, found no open doors or windows, nothing to indicate a break-in, but walking on the driveway and sidewalks left no visible prints. It was frigid, about nine degrees, and Reichenbach returned inside."

"He went down into the sprawling basement and walked through it. At the far end was a white door secured at the top by a block of wood that pivoted on a screw. Reichenbach tried to open the door, stopped when he felt resistance, then returned upstairs. Reichenbach, Officer French, and one of the friends Patsy had called, Fleet White, would all check that white door in the basement during the morning, and White would even open it. They found nothing.""

What is intriguing me is what could provide that resistance.    There was a ball of wire found in the wine cellar.
Was this wire used to hold the door shut from within the wine cellar?



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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #121 on: October 30, 2019, 01:11:24 AM »
Look at this even Steve Thomas conceded there was a possibility  of another person in the house!
From http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-panic911.htm

"stevethomas: "I heard the 911 tape. repeatedly, as did the other detectives. the consensus was unanimous, as supported by the enhancement -- there is a 3rd voice on the tape, appears to be Burke (unless there was someone else present who has never been identified...)""

In my opinion if another person was listening in on the basement phone this could happen. This could happen on the old fashioned landline system.  Not so easy to listen into cellphones I'd imagine.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 05:14:29 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #122 on: October 30, 2019, 06:56:09 AM »
OK if there was anything that would rub the two older children up the wrong way IMO would be missing out on the Big Red Boat cruise.
Now it looks like it was at least a 4 day cruise.   No indication as yet that Melinda and John Andrew were invited on the trip.

From http://www.acandyrose.com/s-birthday-patsy-1996.htm

"1996-12-00: JOHN AND PATSY RAMSEY 1996 CHRISTMAS NEWSLETTER

Dear Friends & Family,

(SNIP)

"We are all enjoying continued good health and look forward to seeing you in 1997! One final note ... thank you to all my 'friends' and my dear husband for surprising me with the biggest, most outrageous 40th birthday bash I've ever had! We'll be spending my actual birthday on the Disney Big Red Boat over the new year!"

(SNIP)

Merry Christmas and much love,
The Ramseys"

A little later there is this interview with detectives "didn't remember it either, but it's easy to figure
5 out, because we lot purchased the tickets through
6 our travel agent and so forth.
7 BRYAN MORGAN: I may be able to shorten
8 that because I know that I have seen the
9 reservations. So I would be glad to send you
10 copies."

So the LE had copies of the reservations.  But no mention of numbers at this stage.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 07:05:34 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2019, 11:33:48 AM »
John Ramsey for 2 hours does not alert the police to the presence of Jonbenet's body in the wine cellar.

It is for this reason the sealed Grand Jury indictment makes perfect sense:  "The grand jury also had alleged that each parent "did ... render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death.""  Quote from https://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/25/justice/jonbenet-ramsey-documents/index.html

Even if his initial suspicions were wrong, he hindered the investigation. 

I don't have a case against Patsy as such, as yet.  So that makes me question the "each parent" bit of this item.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 11:52:46 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #124 on: October 30, 2019, 10:17:56 PM »
A most difficult case really.

Was it a cover-up or is the situation real?  Was the kidnapper going to ring the Ramsey's before 10:00 AM or not?

IMO the ransom note said don't call the police, but they did, so they shouldn't really expect a call from the kidnapper.

How would the kidnapper know the police have been called?  In my theory they were in the house and listened to the 911 call, and at that point JB was hit on the head.  So from 6:00 AM to 8:00 AM JB could well have been alive, with at least one of the perpetrators remaining behind in the wine cellar.


If the room was latched from the outside could the person on the inside unlatch that door to escape?  That is a tricky question.
In my theory anyone entering that room would find someone in there.


Burke had been taken to another location (John and Barbara Fernie?) so it wasn't him.  Who was it then?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #125 on: October 31, 2019, 06:00:06 PM »
Gosh - doing something right, hundreds of visitors to the site and 34 guests reading my new theory thread at the moment.

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2019, 06:23:45 PM »
OK would it really be possible for someone to leave the Ramsey house around 10:00 AM and not be noticed?
That is part of my theory isn't it, that someone stayed with Jonbenet in the wine cellar up to the time Fleet White possibly left the door unlatched.
I can't really prove he saw the person there when he says he didn't but it is possible on the way out he just closed the door and didn't latch it.

The person inside can't unlatch the door from the inside or can they.  Did we ever get a close-up of the latch from the inside and outside?
So most likely they needed someone to unlatch the door.
A good diversion would be to ring John's cell phone and not say anything.  Everyone's attention would be on to John.

He could take the call in the den and everyone's eyes would be on him and what is about to be said but there is nothing.

There was mention of a "blank call that morning".  I may not have mentioned it before as I hadn't realised its significance.  OK to be connected the call needed to have been after Fleet White's exploration of the basement.

And top this off John Ramsey's cell phone records for December went missing.   That is extraordinary don't you think!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 06:28:48 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #127 on: October 31, 2019, 06:50:43 PM »
OK would it really be possible for someone to leave the Ramsey house around 10:00 AM and not be noticed?
That is part of my theory isn't it, that someone stayed with Jonbenet in the wine cellar up to the time Fleet White possibly left the door unlatched.
I can't really prove he saw the person there when he says he didn't but it is possible on the way out he just closed the door and didn't latch it.

The person inside can't unlatch the door from the inside or can they.  Did we ever get a close-up of the latch from the inside and outside?
So most likely they needed someone to unlatch the door.
A good diversion would be to ring John's cell phone and not say anything.  Everyone's attention would be on to John.

He could take the call in the den and everyone's eyes would be on him and what is about to be said but there is nothing.

There was mention of a "blank call that morning".  I may not have mentioned it before as I hadn't realised its significance.  OK to be connected the call needed to have been after Fleet White's exploration of the basement.

And top this off John Ramsey's cell phone records for December went missing.   That is extraordinary don't you think!

I did make mention of this blank call.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10611.msg516462#msg516462


"Can anyone confirm the following statement is true or false please?
"The killer said he would call the home and give instructions, John said that there was a call that came in around 10:00 am and the caller did not say any thing. Was this the killer making the call?"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6010.msg219462#msg219462

Was there really a silent call at 10:00 AM. If there was wouldn't the FBI know who made the call?
[I have a feeling the phone taps had not been setup at 10:00 AM that morning.]"

It all depends on what phone was being called, was it a cellphone or was it the home landline.

But you can imagine the effect that a call at 10:00 AM would make. 

10:00 AM at Boulder is 11:00 AM in Minneapolis and the kids would have caught another flight by then.
So I suggest the call wasn't made by them at Minneapolis.  Were cellphone calls allowed to be made while a plane is in flight at that time?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 05:50:22 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #128 on: November 01, 2019, 06:23:34 PM »
Can the following statement be verified in any way?  "The killer said he would call the home and give instructions, John said that there was a call that came in around 10:00 am and the caller did not say any thing. Was this the killer making the call?

23 years have passed and John as spoken to plenty of people in the intervening years.  I did read there were phone calls made to the Ramsey's house but none appeared to be from the kidnappers.
But you can imagine the anticipation that went on each time the phone rang.  Everyone quiet listening in to the phone call conversation.

Could a distraction like that give a person in the basement enough time to escape out through the butler's door?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #129 on: November 01, 2019, 06:37:53 PM »
When was the butler's door found open?
Who found the door open?

If this door wasn't open when the LE first search the house but is found open later  does that imply John Ramsey also agrees with the theory that the killer remained hidden in the house after the police were called?
Crime scene photo showing open butlers door.  No time stamp visible on the photo. http://www.acandyrose.com/070butlerdoor.jpg
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 06:48:57 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #130 on: November 01, 2019, 07:09:24 PM »
This is significant:

"An Intruder? The Intruder/s may have left the home from the Butler Kitchen. There were two sets of stairs going down to the basement, one from the butler kitchen and one from the front hall. The two sets joined into one hallway. In this video made by Lou Smit starting at 12:12 through 14:01 you can see how they could get from the basement to the Butler kitchen without being seen. At 17:00 he video's the door to the basement and stairs. Also note the Butler Kitchen cannot be seen from the Kitchen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q8YkikAoSk If an intruder, it would make sense why the Butler Door was left open. They didn’t want to close it possibly alerting the Ramseys of their departure."

I have not checked the video as yet. https://youtu.be/2q8YkikAoSk  Link works.
Video taken by Lou Smit. and Paula Woodward
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 01:16:35 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #131 on: November 01, 2019, 07:18:07 PM »
This site has a summary of reports about the Butlers door https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/a7djoe/10_days_of_jonbenetthe_open_butler_door/

If anyone raises my suspicion it is Mr Fernie's statements.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #132 on: November 02, 2019, 06:15:56 AM »
This site has a summary of reports about the Butlers door https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/a7djoe/10_days_of_jonbenetthe_open_butler_door/

If anyone raises my suspicion it is Mr Fernie's statements.
"Butler Pantry Door
Location. The butler pantry door was on the north side of the house, entering a foyer adjacent to the kitchen. Crime Scene Photo 84. Crime Scene Photo 70.
Evidence Door Found Open. "the butler's door to the kitchen was found ajar that morning. (SMF P 137; PSMF P 137.) Defendants note that the butler's door was only a short distance away from the spiral staircase where the Ransom Note was found and within plain view of where the pad of paper used for the Ransom Note was found. (SMF P 138; PSMF P 138.)" (Carnes 2003:89-90). Rocky Mountain News reported: "a police report noted that a Ramsey friend who arrived at the home shortly after 6 a.m., one of the first people there, said a door on the first floor -- called the butler door -- was ajar." The Ramsey friend likely was John Fernie.
Evidence Door Not Open. Internet poster Tricia has summarized the reasons the butler door may not have been open during the night.
Door Could Have Been Jimmied. Internet poster Jameson  (see post #22) claims that Frank Coffman broke into the Ramsey house after the murder by jimmying the lock on the butler door; her assessment is that if he could do this, anyone could."
From JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682499/Potential%20Points%20of%20Entry


Did the Ramseys put the ransom note on the floor by the Butlers pantry door in a position that Mr Fernie could read it through the glass from the outside?   I may have the impression wrong for I can't imagine Jon Ramsey putting the ransom note on the floor near an open door.  Which was first the note being placed on the floor or the Butler pantry door being opened?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 08:37:06 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #133 on: November 02, 2019, 07:23:39 AM »
5:52 911 call by Patsy - how long did that call last 3 minutes? (one YouTube covering the call was 1:40 Minutes long.  Must find out and then Patsy rang the Fernies and the Whites.   
John Fernie says he was there by 6:02 AM - so was he up and dressed then, for he was around at the Ramsey's in about than 5-6 minutes?

The timeline for John Fernie's actions certainly has been questioned before. 
J
There was a separate trial where John Fernie had to describe his timeline.  "Transcript Testimony of John Fernie
Colorado vs Thomas C. Miller trial
June 13, 2001" http://www.acandyrose.com/06132001fernietestimony.htm

At the bottom of this page are some links to actual court transcripts.
What I noticed is that no times (when the calls were made) and none of the names of the people involved (e.g. who made the calls, who invited him in) get mentioned.   

As far as fitting that timeline into my new theory goes it would not be impossible, but it initially seems it would require the writer of the ransom note to ring John Fernie before Patsy does.
Can this fit into the theory?  John Fernie (JF) has been to the house and seen the ransom note before it is left on the stairs for Patsy to read.



Time descriptions "in the early morning hours"

He went around to the patio door, which was a glass door leading into the kitchen, and at the back of the house.  (We need get get a floor plan to see what door he describes as the "patio door".)


[I'll amend this post as I build up the actual picture.]

My thoughts:
Who could have known about the ransom note before Patsy says she found it on the lower rungs of the stairs?  The perpetrators obviously and possibly John Ramsey for he says he was already up having a shower.
Once a person thinks that John Fernie was rung before the Ramseys (JR and PR) are aware of the note, to ring John Ramsey's best friend for some reason shows me that the perpetrators are very aware of the Ramsey family situation.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 08:40:17 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #134 on: November 02, 2019, 09:17:16 PM »
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:s9qtpk4gIykJ:web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/bios/witnesses/fernies.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz

At the time of the article:

"John Fernie
Age: 53
Barbara Fernie
Age: 46


Along with the Whites and the Rev. Rol Hoverstock, John and Barbara Fernie were called to the Ramseys' 15th Street home early Dec. 26, 1996, to console their grief-stricken friends.

That afternoon, when Detective Linda Arndt asked John Ramsey to search his home again, John Fernie went upstairs as JonBenét's father and Fleet White headed for the basement .

It was a fateful choice for Fernie; Ramsey and White found JonBenét's body just moments later.

While the Whites have seemingly turned on the Ramseys, the Fernies have kept a much lower profile. They don't talk to reporters and are believed to still be supportive of John and Patsy Ramsey."


Why would Fernie go anywhere on his own in someone else's home?

Other reports say John Fernie went with john Ramsey and Fleet White to the basement.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 07:25:57 AM by Robittybob1 »
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