Author Topic: THE ALIBI.  (Read 28602 times)

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Offline Mr Apples

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #270 on: August 14, 2021, 01:04:22 AM »
Yet there is not a scintilla of evidence for any of the above and I’m afraid that’s the only thing that matters.

With the greatest respect your posts always read as if you are trying to manufacture evidence to justify your faith in the guilty verdict rather than actually going where the actual evidence leads.

Fair enough. As the evidence of the case is entirely circumstantial, then it stands to reason that lot of people’s theories aren’t going to be 100% water tight. And just because some people don’t provide cites with every single post, it doesn’t mean they are guessing, or pandering to their own hunches, promulgating a false narrative, or their theories lack veracity; it often means they cannot trace the cite or are too busy.

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #271 on: August 14, 2021, 01:11:24 AM »
What's the difference? Because two people who didn't know him but still recognised him, others should be able to too? People don't work like that.

You are trying to suggest that Luke had changed beyond all recognition between the murder and his trial. RW’s court room identification proves that was not the case. That’s the point. It really couldn’t be any clearer.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline rulesapply

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #272 on: August 14, 2021, 01:13:48 AM »
You are trying to suggest that Luke had changed beyond all recognition between the murder and his trial. RW’s court room identification proves that was not the case. That’s the point. It really couldn’t be any clearer.

Again,  because one or two people who didn't know him could identify Luke Mitchell doesn't mean everyone should have been able to. Unless we're robots,  that doesn't make any sense.

Offline rulesapply

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #273 on: August 14, 2021, 01:18:13 AM »
You are trying to suggest that Luke had changed beyond all recognition between the murder and his trial. RW’s court room identification proves that was not the case. That’s the point. It really couldn’t be any clearer.

I think it's also fair to point out that Andrina Bryson did identify Luke Mitchell not long after she did see him and I believe her. I believe anyone who had the guts to be honest about not recognising him in court in front of the press, the lawyers, the judge, the public, would certainly have been happy to tell a policeman she didn't recognise him.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #274 on: August 14, 2021, 01:18:48 AM »
He looked completely different yet RW and her passenger managed, without any hesitation, to point him out in court. Who does that work then?

We could argue about this indefinitely. It’s all down to individual perceptions and interpretations.

Offline rulesapply

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #275 on: August 14, 2021, 01:49:25 AM »
We could argue about this indefinitely. It’s all down to individual perceptions and interpretations.

 Mr Turnbull then named eight people, including some of Mitchell's teachers, who all said they had seen him with a parka-type jacket before Jodi died.

But Mrs Mitchell said: 'I find it odd because he didn't own one. He always wore a short green bomber jacket.

'I am not saying they are lying. I am saying I am not aware Luke had a parka. I had never seen him with one in my house.'

Offline rulesapply

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #276 on: August 14, 2021, 01:50:49 AM »

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #277 on: August 14, 2021, 07:22:51 AM »
I think it's also fair to point out that Andrina Bryson did identify Luke Mitchell not long after she did see him and I believe her. I believe anyone who had the guts to be honest about not recognising him in court in front of the press, the lawyers, the judge, the public, would certainly have been happy to tell a policeman she didn't recognise him.

AB recognised Luke after, what experts have described as a flawed identification process. Why wasn’t Luke put on an identity parade? Police procedures in place at the time dictated that if the suspect and the witness were available then an identity parade should take place. Why do you think that that didn’t happen?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #278 on: August 14, 2021, 07:31:35 AM »
We could argue about this indefinitely. It’s all down to individual perceptions and interpretations.

Why do you think that L&B’s police did not hold any identities parades as procedures in place at the time dictated?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #279 on: August 14, 2021, 07:33:32 AM »
Mr Turnbull then named eight people, including some of Mitchell's teachers, who all said they had seen him with a parka-type jacket before Jodi died.

But Mrs Mitchell said: 'I find it odd because he didn't own one. He always wore a short green bomber jacket.

'I am not saying they are lying. I am saying I am not aware Luke had a parka. I had never seen him with one in my house.'

Of those eight named people who gave evidence in court?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline rulesapply

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #280 on: August 14, 2021, 08:02:25 AM »
Of those eight named people who gave evidence in court?

I've already told you I don't know. It doesn't say in the cite I provided.

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #281 on: August 14, 2021, 09:40:26 AM »
I've already told you I don't know. It doesn't say in the cite I provided.

I thought you needed to see the evidence before you believed it?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #282 on: August 14, 2021, 11:24:29 AM »
Of those eight named people who gave evidence in court?

The problem and wrongful assumption people make are primarily based upon the book, not at all surprising is it? - when the author tells the reader that it is "everything" known to the public, put together for the first time in the same place. Further to this of course is that wonderful inside knowledge - the result that they actually equate this to being the whole case, with Ms Lean putting forward the problems, the questions, the supposition and the 'obvious conclusions. - And there we have this "wafer thin case" - stretched out (cough) in 378 pages of large text that is mainly made up of irrelevant narrative.

The result given of course is that minority, those easily led along this psychological approach of deflection to hide the actual truth in the case. For that minority it is "buy the book" it tells you everything you need to know. Once read, some have taken up the role of expertise on the case. Giving people answers directly from the book. Any real stumbling blocks then it is the author who is asked to clarify, the case?? As we witnessed recently with the debacle over Ovens, amongst many other areas coming to light. So much so, that when WW was playing their role in muddying up the direction of discussion on the thread - instantly those who favoured the book as being the bibliography on the case, liked and commented, 'excellent points!' Such is their actual lack of knowledge.

What one does do of course, is lean as heavily as possible to what one perceives to be in the public domain, to work around this. We have of course covered most of what Ms Lean has never actually been privy to, around 90% of everything "missing" (cough) it would seem. A good proportion of that 10% is actually the stuff that is in the public domain.

To this parka and those questions now of those 8 witnesses (at trial, not in total) testifying to this parka Jacket. The two main witnesses who's evidence alone was on the Parka, were the teacher who left that semester and the Eskbank Trading. Let us clarify this some more first. The teacher did not see LM at school after the 30th of June, he had left his job there. He gave witness to seeing him, clearly before the murder took place. Making reference to him looking like "a monk" with the hood up. The lad from Eskbank Trading and DF, where this "coz of the murder and everything" came from. Now this lad gave precise details also around the actual sighting being prior to the murder and of Mitchell in the shop. Centered around his mother and why there was no doubt of it being prior to the 30th, his mother owned and wore the exact same coat. He had not been in the shop after that date.  Now the AD and some realism, in providing these two witnesses where no doubt could be placed upon the time of the sightings being prior to this date. To these other witnesses at court who were giving evidence on other areas, who had also seen Mitchell in the coat, some when in the company of Jodi - impossible for it to have been after the murder. Where DF attempted to use evidence from a witness who had been excused from court on medical grounds, to dispute this coat which again failed miserably. For the person who was closely linked to both Jodi and Luke had NOT said that LM did not wear such a coat. Where the clear attempt was to do as SM had done, not say either way, simply "I can't remember" - to the AD showing that she had stated, yes he could have. What the witness would not do, was directly lie and say NO. Or as it would, directly tell the truth and say NO! For they could not do this.

The German army shirt and the badge on the sleeve, the interview on the 14th just prior to the pictures being released and of course after the purchase of the new coat. To catch a killer indeed, and of course that tiny area from the questioning. Putting to Mitchell that he had been seen in this green khaki item of clothing with that distinctive badge. Tactics nothing more, they were not going to say, we know you were in a green parka, it is the last thing they wanted to make him aware of at that point. To let him know that they knew it was missing. And of course the burner, that brick item 30inches in height with no top other than a dustpan lid and removal base. Not just a bbq base, the whole thing. The nonsense still to this day of attempting to worm out of having that fire - and it is worming and it is blatant. And the obvious back up, just to add some weight? That Ms Lean herself had "accidently" set fire to a candle once also, as she did when she too could not find "the V",  along with also enjoying the summer sunshine on her "patio reading"-------- And the gaslighting around that joint theory that CM humbly let her viewer learn of, to Ms Leans denial, that this had not happened........But they did discuss it with someone else as a possibility once, instigated by the third party?

So, no alibi, not simply that there were only 13mins there was none, it was concocted and only one reason can be given for this. When someone was striving to place themselves at home, exactly at the time needed. To the sighting by F&W with the parka on. Nothing for at least 15mins to then be sighted by the motorists, who saw him in the green bomber, at a point he claimed NOT to have walked to. Close to the gate by F&W and the entrance and exit to the woodland leading home. This sighting just short of 6pm. To the boys and the space apart actually timed up to 15mins, on the return as they had a puncture. To the other motorist. Than nothing until in the company of the boys at 7.30pm. And of course AB who like F&W and that straggly hair, likened LM to the actor in his role of "Shaggy" in the 2002 movie of Scooby Doo. She remembered him, the clothes and colour, style around 90%. Not bad at all. Both times the actions that drew attention. One with his hands beckoning the girl, looking confrontational. The other looking to the ground, up to no good, avoiding full on contact.

One other thing to note here, that deflection onto Jodi's parents. Firstly this other claimed no show, there was contact and there was no lad idling his time anywhere, waiting and waiting. Much like the boys from the Abbey when late, a little allowance given only. But of the ball (obvs) being firmly in Mitchells court, and of course that of his mother?! If your son had been waiting for the best part of 90mins? on a road, waiting on their girlfriend walking this isolated path, that she never denied the ban on. Would you simply say "she will be gabbing away somewhere" at that point it was hours later, but what of 7pm also? The advice surely would be to get your son to check, to contact, to make sure all was well?

Compulsive liars? - Ms Mitchell, ' when you catch a child being naughty and you confront them and they deny it, say I don't know, I don't understand and they keep their head turned away from you and refuse to answer and acknowledge, are you familiar with this type of situation?' - "yes" - 'Is that you? are you playing at being that naughty child? (AT - AD)

This Jury and all the were privy to, everything inclusive of visiting that locus - these two witnesses both the mother and son, played a massive part in highlighting just how made up most of that evening was. So when one wants to think logically and attempt to apply it, they had no control over what Luke did and as with Luke, disposal was the easy part, was it not? - Those wheels in motion that there could be no control over, were never going to be easy to cover for - and they didn't for it was nigh on impossible to do so. The best attempt was at that alibi. The logic to the other end of the evening, may very well have been to stay back, but? - what was the best option here, just in-case there was trace DNA found upon him, he needed to be part of that along with whatever horrors were in his mind. The very reason for being prepped and ready, of introducing the path to any search, of staying on that path and introducing the woodland, and of the find - of being there and as quickly as possible, before the police became actively involved. - that rush as things out of his control became part of it, namely the police. - were in turn to be his downfall? Planning ahead in case, for yes logically, as much as he had left Jodi hidden out of sight off the beaten track, It is certainly not something he could bank on. But one thing he did know, is that time was on his side, whichever way it panned out. The sole concentration until curfew time was of disposal and putting himself in others company just long enough for it to count, to serve purpose.

We know he was smoking in the Abbey with the boys but not much of anything else. The activities, the rain and so forth. Getting pretty dirty. Barely an hour and he was off again, not to arrive home however until 10pm. Of these boys seeing this coat before also, part of the other 8? Would that be DH, the "notorious little liar?" - rich to say the least?


"procedures in place" - that did not state ID had to be met this way, it had been standard practice to a degree which was in the process of the changeover. To the present day where it does not happen but by means of photo ID now more so. So are you saying that todays standards are wrong? That the 'old' way should never have been changed?

Offline rulesapply

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #283 on: August 14, 2021, 01:19:34 PM »
I thought you needed to see the evidence before you believed it?

I have a cite that I have no reason disbelieve at this point in time. Where's your evidence to the contrary?

Offline rulesapply

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #284 on: August 14, 2021, 01:26:12 PM »
The problem and wrongful assumption people make are primarily based upon the book, not at all surprising is it? - when the author tells the reader that it is "everything" known to the public, put together for the first time in the same place. Further to this of course is that wonderful inside knowledge - the result that they actually equate this to being the whole case, with Ms Lean putting forward the problems, the questions, the supposition and the 'obvious conclusions. - And there we have this "wafer thin case" - stretched out (cough) in 378 pages of large text that is mainly made up of irrelevant narrative.

The result given of course is that minority, those easily led along this psychological approach of deflection to hide the actual truth in the case. For that minority it is "buy the book" it tells you everything you need to know. Once read, some have taken up the role of expertise on the case. Giving people answers directly from the book. Any real stumbling blocks then it is the author who is asked to clarify, the case?? As we witnessed recently with the debacle over Ovens, amongst many other areas coming to light. So much so, that when WW was playing their role in muddying up the direction of discussion on the thread - instantly those who favoured the book as being the bibliography on the case, liked and commented, 'excellent points!' Such is their actual lack of knowledge.

What one does do of course, is lean as heavily as possible to what one perceives to be in the public domain, to work around this. We have of course covered most of what Ms Lean has never actually been privy to, around 90% of everything "missing" (cough) it would seem. A good proportion of that 10% is actually the stuff that is in the public domain.

To this parka and those questions now of those 8 witnesses (at trial, not in total) testifying to this parka Jacket. The two main witnesses who's evidence alone was on the Parka, were the teacher who left that semester and the Eskbank Trading. Let us clarify this some more first. The teacher did not see LM at school after the 30th of June, he had left his job there. He gave witness to seeing him, clearly before the murder took place. Making reference to him looking like "a monk" with the hood up. The lad from Eskbank Trading and DF, where this "coz of the murder and everything" came from. Now this lad gave precise details also around the actual sighting being prior to the murder and of Mitchell in the shop. Centered around his mother and why there was no doubt of it being prior to the 30th, his mother owned and wore the exact same coat. He had not been in the shop after that date.  Now the AD and some realism, in providing these two witnesses where no doubt could be placed upon the time of the sightings being prior to this date. To these other witnesses at court who were giving evidence on other areas, who had also seen Mitchell in the coat, some when in the company of Jodi - impossible for it to have been after the murder. Where DF attempted to use evidence from a witness who had been excused from court on medical grounds, to dispute this coat which again failed miserably. For the person who was closely linked to both Jodi and Luke had NOT said that LM did not wear such a coat. Where the clear attempt was to do as SM had done, not say either way, simply "I can't remember" - to the AD showing that she had stated, yes he could have. What the witness would not do, was directly lie and say NO. Or as it would, directly tell the truth and say NO! For they could not do this.

The German army shirt and the badge on the sleeve, the interview on the 14th just prior to the pictures being released and of course after the purchase of the new coat. To catch a killer indeed, and of course that tiny area from the questioning. Putting to Mitchell that he had been seen in this green khaki item of clothing with that distinctive badge. Tactics nothing more, they were not going to say, we know you were in a green parka, it is the last thing they wanted to make him aware of at that point. To let him know that they knew it was missing. And of course the burner, that brick item 30inches in height with no top other than a dustpan lid and removal base. Not just a bbq base, the whole thing. The nonsense still to this day of attempting to worm out of having that fire - and it is worming and it is blatant. And the obvious back up, just to add some weight? That Ms Lean herself had "accidently" set fire to a candle once also, as she did when she too could not find "the V",  along with also enjoying the summer sunshine on her "patio reading"-------- And the gaslighting around that joint theory that CM humbly let her viewer learn of, to Ms Leans denial, that this had not happened........But they did discuss it with someone else as a possibility once, instigated by the third party?

So, no alibi, not simply that there were only 13mins there was none, it was concocted and only one reason can be given for this. When someone was striving to place themselves at home, exactly at the time needed. To the sighting by F&W with the parka on. Nothing for at least 15mins to then be sighted by the motorists, who saw him in the green bomber, at a point he claimed NOT to have walked to. Close to the gate by F&W and the entrance and exit to the woodland leading home. This sighting just short of 6pm. To the boys and the space apart actually timed up to 15mins, on the return as they had a puncture. To the other motorist. Than nothing until in the company of the boys at 7.30pm. And of course AB who like F&W and that straggly hair, likened LM to the actor in his role of "Shaggy" in the 2002 movie of Scooby Doo. She remembered him, the clothes and colour, style around 90%. Not bad at all. Both times the actions that drew attention. One with his hands beckoning the girl, looking confrontational. The other looking to the ground, up to no good, avoiding full on contact.

One other thing to note here, that deflection onto Jodi's parents. Firstly this other claimed no show, there was contact and there was no lad idling his time anywhere, waiting and waiting. Much like the boys from the Abbey when late, a little allowance given only. But of the ball (obvs) being firmly in Mitchells court, and of course that of his mother?! If your son had been waiting for the best part of 90mins? on a road, waiting on their girlfriend walking this isolated path, that she never denied the ban on. Would you simply say "she will be gabbing away somewhere" at that point it was hours later, but what of 7pm also? The advice surely would be to get your son to check, to contact, to make sure all was well?

Compulsive liars? - Ms Mitchell, ' when you catch a child being naughty and you confront them and they deny it, say I don't know, I don't understand and they keep their head turned away from you and refuse to answer and acknowledge, are you familiar with this type of situation?' - "yes" - 'Is that you? are you playing at being that naughty child? (AT - AD)

This Jury and all the were privy to, everything inclusive of visiting that locus - these two witnesses both the mother and son, played a massive part in highlighting just how made up most of that evening was. So when one wants to think logically and attempt to apply it, they had no control over what Luke did and as with Luke, disposal was the easy part, was it not? - Those wheels in motion that there could be no control over, were never going to be easy to cover for - and they didn't for it was nigh on impossible to do so. The best attempt was at that alibi. The logic to the other end of the evening, may very well have been to stay back, but? - what was the best option here, just in-case there was trace DNA found upon him, he needed to be part of that along with whatever horrors were in his mind. The very reason for being prepped and ready, of introducing the path to any search, of staying on that path and introducing the woodland, and of the find - of being there and as quickly as possible, before the police became actively involved. - that rush as things out of his control became part of it, namely the police. - were in turn to be his downfall? Planning ahead in case, for yes logically, as much as he had left Jodi hidden out of sight off the beaten track, It is certainly not something he could bank on. But one thing he did know, is that time was on his side, whichever way it panned out. The sole concentration until curfew time was of disposal and putting himself in others company just long enough for it to count, to serve purpose.

We know he was smoking in the Abbey with the boys but not much of anything else. The activities, the rain and so forth. Getting pretty dirty. Barely an hour and he was off again, not to arrive home however until 10pm. Of these boys seeing this coat before also, part of the other 8? Would that be DH, the "notorious little liar?" - rich to say the least?


"procedures in place" - that did not state ID had to be met this way, it had been standard practice to a degree which was in the process of the changeover. To the present day where it does not happen but by means of photo ID now more so. So are you saying that todays standards are wrong? That the 'old' way should never have been changed?

I know LM had a parka but I don't have a cite of an individual saying so and I know Kane had a parka because two other friends and myself all put money in to buy him a parka for his 18th. I wish I'd kept my share and bought him a pair of f*****g jeans.