Author Topic: J J's Hands Found Tied  (Read 613 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

J J's Hands Found Tied
« on: April 11, 2021, 12:17:29 PM »
Where did the trousers originate from that were used to tie J J's hands?

At what stage were the hands tied and why?

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline faithlilly

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2021, 12:21:04 PM »
Where did the trousers originate from that were used to tie J J's hands?

At what stage were the hands tied and why?

The trousers were Jodi’s.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2022, 11:55:54 PM »
Stumbled upon this article a few moments ago (I’m burning the midnight oil tonight and decided to look at the case again after some time away from it). This is the first time I’ve read about LM himself referencng Marilyn Manson and the Black Dahlia murder, rather than the police formulating their own theories as a direct result of them finding the free DVD featuring Manson in LM’s house. Once again, LM’s own actions cause suspicion to fall on him, rather than the police having tunnel vision or fitting him up.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Mark+of+the+beast.-a0127512564


Offline Mr Apples

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2022, 11:53:10 AM »
An ex-girlfriend of LM’s (Lesley-Anne Haughton) tells of his propensity for the occult and the macabre. She mentions that  “he went from being a fun person to being zombie-like” after getting involved with drugs, and said, “I was a bit scared but knew I had to end it.”

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/I+dumped+Mitchell+because+cannabis+warped+his+mind%3b+Ex+tells+of+lure...-a0127892066


Offline Mr Apples

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2022, 09:41:04 PM »
Actually, does anyone know off the top of their heads what DNA was found on Jodi’s trousers? I know a deal was struck between The Crown and The Defence not to use DNA at the trial because Luke and Jodi’s relationship was intimate and sexual, but I was curious to know, a.) if LM’s fingerprints were found on Jodi’s dark baggy cord trousers? and, b.) what DNA of LM’s was found on Jodi’s body?

LM was the outdoors, Davie Crocket type: exposed to survival and outdoor pursuits as per the cadets, camping, hunting, fishing, cars, motorbikes, horse-riding; was also highly intelligent (advanced for his age, took control of police interviews even at the tender age of 14 — and even thoughi hevhad no previous dealings with the criminal justice system), was independent, devious (lied continually to police throughout the investigation), confident (mocked police and tried to tell them how to do their jobs, was sociallly & sexually confident due to being a drug dealer and a bully with a short fuse), was indulged/spoiled by his mother, used to getting his own way, was the man of the house was disturbed (as per being referred to psychologist’s in both high school and primary school, demanding sex from an older girlfriend when he was only 12, threatening previous girlfriends with knives — including twisting a knife into jodi’s leg which was witnessed at a party and had caused Jodi to writhe in pain — telling people he knew the methods of how to kill people with a knife and knew how to eviscerate animals, was attracted to the macabre and occult), was a drug dealer and prolific/excessive dope smoker, was anti-authoritarian, had a very quick temper. What could go wrong? I know this is all old hat, but it is apposite, since all the aforementioned elements of LM’s nature, personality and mental health all frantically and tragically came together behind that wall at 1710 on 30.06.03, and culminated in the brutal, horrific and tragic murder of an innocent teenage girl. Murder by rage-induced psychotic episode, aggravated by excessive cannabis abuse (akin to ‘Intermittent Explosive Disorder’?). A narcissist, sociopath and psychopath all rolled into one. The writing had been on the wall, with the benefit of hindsight. I guess most people don’t expect it to manifest so prematurely. I think if it hadn’t been Jodi, then someone else would have met that fate soon after. I don’t think it was premeditated; I think it was just an escalation that began at 1654 and reached its tragic climax at 1715/1720. And, I do think LM would kill again if released.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2022, 07:01:24 PM »
Jodi tied up with trousers, court told
By Shirley English
Wednesday December 15 2004, 12.00am GMT, The Times
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THE legs of a pair of trousers were used to tie the arms of murdered schoolgirl Jodi Jones behind her back, a court was told yesterday.
Mark Heron, who works in the identification branch at Lothian and Borders Police, told the High Court in Edinburgh that he visited the murder scene at about 4am on July 1. He said: “Her hands were behind her back. The right leg of the trousers was tied in a single granny knot around the left wrist. The left leg of the trousers was twisted round the right wrist.”
The teenager’s mutilated body was found naked apart from a pair of socks pulled down to her toes. Other items of clothing, including pieces of a T-shirt, underclothes, trainers and a broken pair of spectacles, were scattered around the wooded area where she lay behind a bloodied wall running next to a popular footpath called Roan’s Dyke, in Dalkeith, Midlothian.
Jodi, 14, from Easthouses, Dalkeith, was found by members of her family and Luke Mitchell, the teenager accused of her murder, on June 30 last year.
Luke Mitchell, who was Jodi’s boyfriend, denies strangling and stabbing her repeatedly before and after she died. He claims he was at or near his home in Newbattle, Dalkeith, when Jodi was murdered by a person or persons unknown.
He also denies charges of being in possession of knives in public places and supplying cannabis to school friends, including Jodi.
The trial before Lord Nimmo Smith continues.


Using ‘granny knots’, one imagines, would’ve been learned in the cadets that Luke attended, and I dare say he had read up about it in his leisure time given he was the Davie Crocket, outdoors type (very much enjoyed camping, hunting, fishing, dog-walking, motorbikes, cars . . . liked outdoor pursuits generally). He probably read about outdoor and survival pursuits, learning how to gut fish, skin rabbits (he owned skunting knives for this) and had told friends that he knew how to kill a person; he even said he could imagine getting stoned and killiing someone ‘just for a laugh’ (this was testified in court). Moreover, it was crystal clear that Luke had a genuine interest in knives — one might even say that he had an unhealthy interest in them (Jodi herself had confided in a friend that she found his large knife collection weird and concerning) — and was trying to emulate his brother Shane, who too had a substantial knife collection. Essentially, what I’m saying is that the murder had Luke written all over it, especially when added to what we know about Luke’s nature and personality (which I’ve catalogued upthread) and the overwhelming circumstantial evidence that was led at trial against him. It’s not surprising that he was found guilty by a majority verdict (9/6, I heard) and his subsequent appeals have failed. When I consider every facet of the case, I am convinced that Luke is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 07:05:55 PM by Mr Apples »

Offline faithlilly

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2022, 07:50:24 PM »
Jodi tied up with trousers, court told
By Shirley English
Wednesday December 15 2004, 12.00am GMT, The Times
Share




Save

THE legs of a pair of trousers were used to tie the arms of murdered schoolgirl Jodi Jones behind her back, a court was told yesterday.
Mark Heron, who works in the identification branch at Lothian and Borders Police, told the High Court in Edinburgh that he visited the murder scene at about 4am on July 1. He said: “Her hands were behind her back. The right leg of the trousers was tied in a single granny knot around the left wrist. The left leg of the trousers was twisted round the right wrist.”
The teenager’s mutilated body was found naked apart from a pair of socks pulled down to her toes. Other items of clothing, including pieces of a T-shirt, underclothes, trainers and a broken pair of spectacles, were scattered around the wooded area where she lay behind a bloodied wall running next to a popular footpath called Roan’s Dyke, in Dalkeith, Midlothian.
Jodi, 14, from Easthouses, Dalkeith, was found by members of her family and Luke Mitchell, the teenager accused of her murder, on June 30 last year.
Luke Mitchell, who was Jodi’s boyfriend, denies strangling and stabbing her repeatedly before and after she died. He claims he was at or near his home in Newbattle, Dalkeith, when Jodi was murdered by a person or persons unknown.
He also denies charges of being in possession of knives in public places and supplying cannabis to school friends, including Jodi.
The trial before Lord Nimmo Smith continues.


Using ‘granny knots’, one imagines, would’ve been learned in the cadets that Luke attended, and I dare say he had read up about it in his leisure time given he was the Davie Crocket, outdoors type (very much enjoyed camping, hunting, fishing, dog-walking, motorbikes, cars . . . liked outdoor pursuits generally). He probably read about outdoor and survival pursuits, learning how to gut fish, skin rabbits (he owned skunting knives for this) and had told friends that he knew how to kill a person; he even said he could imagine getting stoned and killiing someone ‘just for a laugh’ (this was testified in court). Moreover, it was crystal clear that Luke had a genuine interest in knives — one might even say that he had an unhealthy interest in them (Jodi herself had confided in a friend that she found his large knife collection weird and concerning) — and was trying to emulate his brother Shane, who too had a substantial knife collection. Essentially, what I’m saying is that the murder had Luke written all over it, especially when added to what we know about Luke’s nature and personality (which I’ve catalogued upthread) and the overwhelming circumstantial evidence that was led at trial against him. It’s not surprising that he was found guilty by a majority verdict (9/6, I heard) and his subsequent appeals have failed. When I consider every facet of the case, I am convinced that Luke is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.


9/6…interesting. Where did you hear that? Just say that that figure is correct, why do you think that the 6 people, who heard testimony from every witness, inspected ever piece of evidence, did not believe that the ‘ beyond reasonable doubt’ threshold had been reached in relation to Luke’s guilt?

Further we have seen that Luke at that time had rather a lot of fine, to the neck hair yet SOCO failed to find one hair from Luke’s head on Jodie. Don’t you find that strange?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2022, 09:53:36 PM »

9/6…interesting. Where did you hear that? Just say that that figure is correct, why do you think that the 6 people, who heard testimony from every witness, inspected ever piece of evidence, did not believe that the ‘ beyond reasonable doubt’ threshold had been reached in relation to Luke’s guilt?

Further we have seen that Luke at that time had rather a lot of fine, to the neck hair yet SOCO failed to find one hair from Luke’s head on Jodie. Don’t you find that strange?

Hi, Faithlilly. I read it on another forum (either on the blue J Bamber forum or the tapatalk Shirley McKie forum). It’s hardly surprising that 6 of the jurors weren’t convinced, since the case was very complex and a lot of the evidence was open to interpretation. Had I been a juror at that case, I really don’t know what verdict I would have returned. I knew absolutely nothing about this case prior to the C5 doco. However, after about only 2 weeks of studying and analysing the case meticulously, I became fairly convinced that Luke had done it. But, ‘fairly convinced’ wasn’t enough — I had to do further reading to get to the point where I’d be able to say LM was guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I believe I reached this stage a few months back. So, it took me about 9 months of reading, analysing and studying the case to be able to form this opinion, and even now I’m not 100% certain (more like 98% certain, which, btw, I’m satisfied with). I had 9 months and the comfort of my own home to help me get to this stage; the jurors only had 9 weeks, and they were in the pressure cooker environment of a High courtroom. Attending court in any capacity is, for most people, an intimidating and disagreeable experience, and most definitely not a 100% perfect system and process. But, it’s all we’ve got, and most of the time all concerned in this imperfect system and process try and do their jobs honestly and to the best of their abilities. Obviously people have different perceptions and different abilities and skills, so you’ve got to factor this in to any trial outcome (as I said, it’s an imperfect system). As for DNA and hair samples from the locus, wasn’t it the case that they tested hairs, including light-coloured ones, and they all came back as either ‘inconclusive’ or ‘non-reportable’ (meaning that most of them were rootless)? Doesn’t mean they weren’t Luke’s. Btw, what DNA was on Jodi’s trousers? Were Luke’s fingerprints on them?


Luke may very well be innocent, but I’d be extremely surprised if he was.

Btw, Faithlilly, do you know of any other forums that discuss this case other than the ones I’ve mentioned above? I’d like to read other opinions on this case.

Offline faithlilly

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2022, 11:43:07 PM »
Hi, Faithlilly. I read it on another forum (either on the blue J Bamber forum or the tapatalk Shirley McKie forum). It’s hardly surprising that 6 of the jurors weren’t convinced, since the case was very complex and a lot of the evidence was open to interpretation. Had I been a juror at that case, I really don’t know what verdict I would have returned. I knew absolutely nothing about this case prior to the C5 doco. However, after about only 2 weeks of studying and analysing the case meticulously, I became fairly convinced that Luke had done it. But, ‘fairly convinced’ wasn’t enough — I had to do further reading to get to the point where I’d be able to say LM was guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I believe I reached this stage a few months back. So, it took me about 9 months of reading, analysing and studying the case to be able to form this opinion, and even now I’m not 100% certain (more like 98% certain, which, btw, I’m satisfied with). I had 9 months and the comfort of my own home to help me get to this stage; the jurors only had 9 weeks, and they were in the pressure cooker environment of a High courtroom. Attending court in any capacity is, for most people, an intimidating and disagreeable experience, and most definitely not a 100% perfect system and process. But, it’s all we’ve got, and most of the time all concerned in this imperfect system and process try and do their jobs honestly and to the best of their abilities. Obviously people have different perceptions and different abilities and skills, so you’ve got to factor this in to any trial outcome (as I said, it’s an imperfect system). As for DNA and hair samples from the locus, wasn’t it the case that they tested hairs, including light-coloured ones, and they all came back as either ‘inconclusive’ or ‘non-reportable’ (meaning that most of them were rootless)? Doesn’t mean they weren’t Luke’s. Btw, what DNA was on Jodi’s trousers? Were Luke’s fingerprints on them?


Luke may very well be innocent, but I’d be extremely surprised if he was.

Btw, Faithlilly, do you know of any other forums that discuss this case other than the ones I’ve mentioned above? I’d like to read other opinions on this case.

I’ve found the Luke Mitchell section of this forum ( link below ) very informative.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336768



I hope if you don’t mind if I answer the rest of your post at a later time?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: J J's Hands Found Tied
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2022, 02:04:12 AM »
I’ve found the Luke Mitchell section of this forum ( link below ) very informative.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336768



I hope if you don’t mind if I answer the rest of your post at a later time?

Yes, I’ve read some posts on that site. It’s a pity the original WAP site isn’t still about .... I never saw a single post from it but heard it was the most extensive and in-depth of any site re the LM case. Of course I don’t mind  — I would be interested to read any info you have about LM’s DNA, specifically what was found on Jodi’s trousers and the hair traces found and tested at the locus (I may be incorrect about what I said upthread re hair being found at the soc and tested).