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[Wonderfulspam]

It's all out there why he did what he did in court. Ray is trying to explain his case without dragging names into it of which there are many.

He feared for his life at the time in court was told he would be killed.

The story that is out there looks one sided in regards to other people but you would be surprised as to how his name came into the frame in the first place

I've just been reading more..

With an expression of exasperation during the trial, Gilbert suddenly changed his plea to 'Guilty'. He says that he was fed up and intimidated by Kamara and his friends, who were in the same prison. He had falsely incriminated Kamara, as his partner in the robbery, in his written confession, after Kamara's name had been suggested to him by the police.

He says he thought he was helping Kamara by changing his plea during the trial. In fact his change of plea had the opposite effect. Kamara became guilty by association and was also convicted.

...............


So, he could have told the court that he was not involved, but decided it would help Mr Kamara more if he plead guilty, essentially authenticating his own confession & the accusations he made against Kamara.

That doesn't make any sense.

What would make sense would be to take the stand & insist his confession was totally bogus & coerced, he wasn't stabbing anyone, then both he & Mr Kamara could potentially have been found not guilty.

Sorry, I really can't blame the justice system for believing he's a murderer & him being kept in the slammer for years when he plead guilty to murder & validated his own confession.

[Ray Gilbert]

Keep reading, I didn't come on here for support or validation from you.

I came on here to read about other peoples cases and how they are progressing.

Unless you have been in my shoes and read the whole of the evidence including the undisclosed then your opinion means nothing to me.

Better people than you have read it and support, so crack on. I wont be debating with you or anyone else

[Wonderfulspam]

Keep reading, I didn't come on here for support or validation from you.

I came on here to read about other peoples cases and how they are progressing.

Unless you have been in my shoes and read the whole of the evidence including the undisclosed then your opinion means nothing to me.

Better people than you have read it and support, so crack on. I wont be debating with you or anyone else

Like how you wouldn't testify in your own defence?

It's all very well protesting you're not a murderer now, but maybe if you'd bothered to do that at trial you might have had a better shot at freedom.

The jury might have had more doubts regarding your false confession & the inconsistency with the unbroken milk bottle, but you never gave them that chance.

[Dexter]

Like how you wouldn't testify in your own defence?

It's all very well protesting you're not a murderer now, but maybe if you'd bothered to do that at trial you might have had a better shot at freedom.

The jury might have had more doubts regarding your false confession & the inconsistency with the unbroken milk bottle, but you never gave them that chance.

Please if you are going to quote the rights and wrongs of a criminal trial at least be open to what really happens.

Ray did actually start to give  evidence...he didn't hide away but as he was pressured to admit guilt or be killed things changed

[Wonderfulspam]

Please if you are going to quote the rights and wrongs of a criminal trial at least be open to what really happens.

Ray did actually start to give  evidence...he didn't hide away but as he was pressured to admit guilt or be killed things changed

How far into it did he get before he decided it would be a good idea to plead guilty to being a murderer when he wasn't?

[Wonderfulspam]

There seem to be conflicting reports.

According to this source:

Why did the jury not ask any questions about this confession?

Because they never had a chance to hear these doubts raised by the defence. No jury has ever heard Gilbert's defence. Why? Because in court, Gilbert made the biggest mistake in his life.

There were two attempts to get the trial moving when finally it came to court in December 1981. Twice Gilbert and Kamara pleaded not guilty in front of juries, which were then dismissed, for legal reasons. Again they pleaded not guilty in front of a third jury which had been sworn in. The trial then started. Yet after the prosecution had made its case and Gilbert was put in the witness box he suddenly sent a message to the Judge and said words to the effect that 'I am guilty.'

http://www.mojuk.org.uk/eddie/ray.html

[Angelo222]

There seem to be conflicting reports.

According to this source:

Why did the jury not ask any questions about this confession?

Because they never had a chance to hear these doubts raised by the defence. No jury has ever heard Gilbert's defence. Why? Because in court, Gilbert made the biggest mistake in his life.

There were two attempts to get the trial moving when finally it came to court in December 1981. Twice Gilbert and Kamara pleaded not guilty in front of juries, which were then dismissed, for legal reasons. Again they pleaded not guilty in front of a third jury which had been sworn in. The trial then started. Yet after the prosecution had made its case and Gilbert was put in the witness box he suddenly sent a message to the Judge and said words to the effect that 'I am guilty.'

http://www.mojuk.org.uk/eddie/ray.html

I do hope that Ray is not like many convicted individuals who come on here to protest their innocence but then refuse to answer questions. I would like to give him every opportunity to put his case forward because as Spammy has pointed out, there is conflicting information online about his case.

Over to you Ray, you have the floor and can I remind everyone that...

"THE TRUTH NEVER CHANGES WITH TIME"

[Wonderfulspam]

I do hope that Ray is not like many convicted individuals who come on here to protest their innocence but then refuse to answer questions. I would like to give him every opportunity to put his case forward because as Spammy has pointed out, there is conflicting information online about his case.

Over to you Ray, you have the floor and can I remind everyone that...

"THE TRUTH NEVER CHANGES WITH TIME"

From the links I've read about the case, & there don't seem to be very many, a signed written confession made without a lawyer being present that came from a 2 day unrecorded interrogation seems pretty much the only evidence against Mr Gilbert.

Apparently Mr Gilberts confession didn't include details of the time-locked safe, which the inability to access was the reason Mr Suffield was so frenziedly & brutally murdered (according to the prosecution).

Potential MOJ? Absolutely.

But, pleading guilty to a crime he didn't commit, forget shooting himself in the foot, that blew off his legs completely.

I give Michael Stone the benefit of the doubt, considering the evidence against him was a second-hand confession. Omar Benguit has MOJ all over it too, since the evidence against him came from a lying crack head who gave several different versions.

Had I been on Mr Gilbert's jury I believe I'd have been quite inclined to find him not guilty, that is until he plead guilty.

Anyway, I'm not sure Mr Gilbert wants to discuss his own case, but I wish him all the best in overturning his conviction, if he is indeed an innocent man, but sorry, I can't help but feel tilted towards his guilt, since I can't imagine myself pleading guilty to a brutal murder I had absolutely no involvement in.

[Dexter]

This isnt a section to talk about your own case. As Ray has already stated  he didn't come on here to talk about his own case and never intended to.

He has lots of projects on the go in the UK and another country so as you can imagine he has other ways to spend his time.

While you are scratching your chin and deciding no one admits to a crime he didn't commit
..keep this in mind.

The man who was murdered was so scared for his life he begged his Manager to make arrangements to move to another shop. Within 24 hours he was DEAD.

Ray was not a customer 🤔

[Wonderfulspam]

This isnt a section to talk about your own case. As Ray has already stated  he didn't come on here to talk about his own case and never intended to.

He has lots of projects on the go in the UK and another country so as you can imagine he has other ways to spend his time.

While you are scratching your chin and deciding no one admits to a crime he didn't commit
..keep this in mind.

The man who was murdered was so scared for his life he begged his Manager to make arrangements to move to another shop. Within 24 hours he was DEAD.

Ray was not a customer 🤔

Yeah, I did read that.

Maybe he didn't do it, but I still wouldn't go pleading guilty to murder I didn't commit though.

[Dexter]

Yeah, I did read that.

Maybe he didn't do it, but I still wouldn't go pleading guilty to murder I didn't commit though.

It's hard for others to understand but unless you know Rays life story I guess it will stay hard to understand. He hasnt faltered in 41 years and he never will.

If he was guilty he could have put his hands up got released and lived the rest of his life quietly.

He isn't doing that and won't ever stop. It's not much fun filming at the murder scene looking for clues any clue to help his case

[Wonderfulspam]

It's hard for others to understand but unless you know Rays life story I guess it will stay hard to understand. He hasnt faltered in 41 years and he never will.

If he was guilty he could have put his hands up got released and lived the rest of his life quietly.

He isn't doing that and won't ever stop. It's not much fun filming at the murder scene looking for clues any clue to help his case

But he has faltered, he denied it to police, then they made him confess, then he denied it in two trials, then admitted to it in a third, then denied it again.

[Dexter]

I said in the last 41 years....since conviction. Ray didn't join to discuss his case.

He joined to support others but this doesn't seem to be that place.

[Dexter]

But he has faltered, he denied it to police, then they made him confess, then he denied it in two trials, then admitted to it in a third, then denied it again.

One last thing for clarity... The first jury was dismissed on a point of law. The prosecutor said things he shouldn't have said unless it was said in the witness box

The second jury was dismissed because either a Prison Officer or Police Officers Wife was on the jury.  This has never been confirmed

[Wonderfulspam]

I said in the last 41 years....since conviction. Ray didn't join to discuss his case.

He joined to support others but this doesn't seem to be that place.

I don't know what you mean by support.

Are you talking about fundraisers & poster campaigns, or simply saying nice thing on social media?

It's ok to have contrary opinions you know.

I've never heard Mr Gilberts full account regarding what he was doing on the day in question, or a good explanation for why he plead guilty.

I might be able to form different opinions if I had, then I could conform to your own standard of acceptable opinions.