Author Topic: Goncalo Amaral.  (Read 406952 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3210 on: August 21, 2020, 01:57:54 PM »
I refer you to my answer above, quoting the correct Collins Legal Dictionary.

fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened. Facts may also be inferred from other facts.
Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006


Each juror gives his opinion on the guilt of the accused....show me the fault in that statement

Offline puglove

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3211 on: August 21, 2020, 02:00:21 PM »
Susan.

Blimey, this is confusing.....did Susan George kill Barry Dando?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline The General

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3212 on: August 21, 2020, 02:05:52 PM »

Each juror gives his opinion on the guilt of the accused....show me the fault in that statement

That statement is a far cry from this one:

It is an opinion based on the evidence...what else can it be. That's exactly why there are miscarriages of justice.

what else can it possibly be apart from an opinion

The verdict is a legal fact. How that 'fact' is derived is not what's being discussed - and I think you know the distinction.
The 2nd Youngest Member of the Forum

Offline The General

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3213 on: August 21, 2020, 02:07:16 PM »
Blimey, this is confusing.....did Susan George kill Barry Dando?
No Jill Gascoigne killed Ashley Banjo.
The 2nd Youngest Member of the Forum

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3214 on: August 21, 2020, 02:08:03 PM »
That statement is a far cry from this one:

The verdict is a legal fact. How that 'fact' is derived is not what's being discussed - and I think you know the distinction.

A legal fact is not a fact as we know it...a legal fact may not be true so its not a fact

Offline G-Unit

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3215 on: August 21, 2020, 02:16:24 PM »
A legal fact is not a fact as we know it...a legal fact may not be true so its not a fact

As in the proven facts in the trial of Gonzalo Amaral.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3216 on: August 21, 2020, 02:18:01 PM »
As in the proven facts in the trial of Gonzalo Amaral.

my thought exactly.....legal proven facts it seems may not be facts at all.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3217 on: August 21, 2020, 02:20:40 PM »
When is a fact not a fact?  When it is a legal fact!  Glad that’s sorted anyway.  I love these semantic ding-dongs.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3218 on: August 21, 2020, 02:21:52 PM »
When is a fact not a fact?  When it is a legal fact!  Glad that’s sorted anyway.  I love these semantic ding-dongs.

Seems a legal fact is more an opinion.

Offline kizzy

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3219 on: August 22, 2020, 01:30:16 PM »
It is an opinion based on the evidence...what else can it be. That's exactly why there are miscarriages of justice.

what else can it possibly be apart from an opinion

Ah, so it is only opinion that GA could be wrong ...not that he is.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3220 on: August 22, 2020, 01:34:54 PM »
Ah, so it is only opinion that GA could be wrong ...not that he is.

I don't think the Loch Ness monster exists...but i can't prove it.

amarals theory wasnt supported by enough evidence to charge or try the McCanns...so the verdict is not guilty

Offline kizzy

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3221 on: August 22, 2020, 01:56:22 PM »
I don't think the Loch Ness monster exists...but i can't prove it.

amarals theory wasnt supported by enough evidence to charge or try the McCanns...so the verdict is not guilty

Well good to see you said not enough...and not no or nothing.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3222 on: August 22, 2020, 02:15:40 PM »
Well good to see you said not enough...and not no or nothing.

When people are innocent theres usually not enough evidence to charge....

Offline kizzy

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3223 on: August 22, 2020, 02:41:07 PM »
When people are innocent theres usually not enough evidence to charge....

Doesnt alter the fact the mccs could still be involved IMO.




- To go back to our conclusions, I am convinced that those who would like to refute them would have a hard time doing so.

- That's certain, since they rest on the facts, the clues and the concrete evidence.

A DISAPPEARANCE, A WINDOW AND A BODY

It is now important to present a summary of this case, based on our deductions: reject what is false, throw out what we can't show with sufficient certainty and validate that which can be proven.

1. The theory of abduction was defended from the start by Maddie's parents.

2. In their group, only the McCanns state that they saw the bedroom window open. The others cannot confirm it since they arrived at the apartment after the alert was raised.

3. The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act.

4. The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it.

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #3224 on: August 22, 2020, 02:48:15 PM »
Doesnt alter the fact the mccs could still be involved IMO.




- To go back to our conclusions, I am convinced that those who would like to refute them would have a hard time doing so.

- That's certain, since they rest on the facts, the clues and the concrete evidence.

A DISAPPEARANCE, A WINDOW AND A BODY

It is now important to present a summary of this case, based on our deductions: reject what is false, throw out what we can't show with sufficient certainty and validate that which can be proven.

1. The theory of abduction was defended from the start by Maddie's parents.

2. In their group, only the McCanns state that they saw the bedroom window open. The others cannot confirm it since they arrived at the apartment after the alert was raised.

3. The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act.

4. The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it.

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;

do you not realise the line in red is total BS......