Author Topic: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.  (Read 29858 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2017, 12:56:08 PM »
You might well  &%+((£

I take it the smear he's referring to is the one (or what I believe are two) across the second fatal wound?

If those three linear stains on her nightdress are from her fingers and the result of putting them first on the neck wound, which was supposedly instantly fatal, how come she then placed her hand on the rifle near the trigger when it should realistically have flopped down onto the floor by her right side?

ETA: ... or remained resting on or near her neck?

The only smears I can see appear to be across the upper immediately fatal second gsw and do appear to be a mirror image, top and bottom, as illustrated here by John:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg257611#msg257611

However I'm not sure about the two dark blobs.

It's interesting how trial testimony from Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight both suggest SC was sitting upright for the first gsw and suggest maybe sitting on the bed. 

I still maintain SC's found location/position doesn't look right.  All the expert evidence supports SC falling immediately backwards after the second gsw.  Therefore I would expect to see her head wedged against the bedside cabinet.  Instead her head has fallen to one side which in any event would surely have hit the corner of the bedside cabinet and yet no marks to her head to support this.

The good news here is that bloodstain analysis has moved on leaps and bounds since JB's trial and with all the soc photos still available expert analysis could prove very illuminating!  However strictly speaking its unlikely to assist JB at any furture appeal since the CoA have already ruled it is something that could have been adjudicated on at trial - use it or lose it!  This imo is unfair as a defendant/appellant can hardly be held responsible for appropriate expert testimony.  A quick read of trial testimony from Dr Vanezis, Prof Knight and John Hayward shows they were all woefully inadequate compared with modern day bloodstain analysts.     

There's literally a mountain of unexplored data from physical evidence at soc by way of bloodstains, bullet trajectories both of which are underpinned by science.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2017, 02:29:41 PM »
The only smears I can see appear to be across the upper immediately fatal second gsw and do appear to be a mirror image, top and bottom, as illustrated here by John:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg257611#msg257611

However I'm not sure about the two dark blobs.


It's interesting how trial testimony from Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight both suggest SC was sitting upright for the first gsw and suggest maybe sitting on the bed. 

I still maintain SC's found location/position doesn't look right.  All the expert evidence supports SC falling immediately backwards after the second gsw.  Therefore I would expect to see her head wedged against the bedside cabinet.  Instead her head has fallen to one side which in any event would surely have hit the corner of the bedside cabinet and yet no marks to her head to support this.

The good news here is that bloodstain analysis has moved on leaps and bounds since JB's trial and with all the soc photos still available expert analysis could prove very illuminating!  However strictly speaking its unlikely to assist JB at any furture appeal since the CoA have already ruled it is something that could have been adjudicated on at trial - use it or lose it!  This imo is unfair as a defendant/appellant can hardly be held responsible for appropriate expert testimony.  A quick read of trial testimony from Dr Vanezis, Prof Knight and John Hayward shows they were all woefully inadequate compared with modern day bloodstain analysts.     

There's literally a mountain of unexplored data from physical evidence at soc by way of bloodstains, bullet trajectories both of which are underpinned by science.

See... this is where I disagree with John, in that I don't think the smear is a mirror image. In the annotated photo attached, the wound hole (1a) and the stream of blood from that hole up to the line of symmetry should be reflected in the area (1b), but they don't match. Similarly blob (2a) should be reflected in the area (2b), but again they don't match.

This why Vanezis thought they were smears, as if a finger, thumb or other object such as the moderator end or rifle muzzle had been drawn across the wound and stream of blood from left to right, leaving those blobs on the right-hand side.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2017, 04:06:20 PM »
See... this is where I disagree with John, in that I don't think the smear is a mirror image. In the annotated photo attached, the wound hole (1a) and the stream of blood from that hole up to the line of symmetry should be reflected in the area (1b), but they don't match. Similarly blob (2a) should be reflected in the area (2b), but again they don't match.

This why Vanezis thought they were smears, as if a finger, thumb or other object such as the moderator end or rifle muzzle had been drawn across the wound and stream of blood from left to right, leaving those blobs on the right-hand side.

Yes see what you mean.  Now I feel like a fool torn between the pair of you.  A bit like Mary MacGreggor I suppose!

Now...did SC sit on the edge of the bed for the first lower non-fatal gsw hence the vertical bloodstaining running down her side and then relocate herself on the floor for the second upper fatal gsw hence the horizontal bloodstaining running over her arm?

David are you sure there isn't any blood NB's side of the bed that might pertain to SC?  There's a substance used for bloodstaining experiments.  It's bugging me that I can't recall the name but its something like Ublek!?!
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 04:15:19 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2017, 04:48:23 PM »
Yes see what you mean.  Now I feel like a fool torn between the pair of you.  A bit like Mary MacGreggor I suppose!

Now...did SC sit on the edge of the bed for the first lower non-fatal gsw hence the vertical bloodstaining running down her side and then relocate herself on the floor for the second upper fatal gsw hence the horizontal bloodstaining running over her arm?

David are you sure there isn't any blood NB's side of the bed that might pertain to SC?  There's a substance used for bloodstaining experiments.  It's bugging me that I can't recall the name but its something like Ublek!?!

There is a lot of blood on that side of the bed. Apparently it's all June's who walked over there & back again after being shot up to 8 times.

This is surprising, as Sheila was shot twice there & Nevill slept there & was shot 4 times in the bedroom.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 05:49:09 PM by adam »

Offline Myster

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2017, 04:50:41 PM »
Yes see what you mean.  Now I feel like a fool torn between the pair of you.  A bit like Mary MacGreggor I suppose!

Now...did SC sit on the edge of the bed for the first lower non-fatal gsw hence the vertical bloodstaining running down her side and then relocate herself on the floor for the second upper fatal gsw hence the horizontal bloodstaining running over her arm?

David are you sure there isn't any blood NB's side of the bed that might pertain to SC?  There's a substance used for bloodstaining experiments.  It's bugging me that I can't recall the name but its something like Ublek!?!
Thought you didn't like soppy songs sung by swooning women?... and were more into masculine hard rock, Suzi Quatro in leather biker gear, etc.

If she did sit on Nevill's side of the bed initially, why wasn't there blood on the sheets or photos taken of any... as far as I know?
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2017, 08:56:08 AM »
Just had another think about this and even more convinced that the smear is not mirrored. If it had been, then the circled area would have been far messier than it appears. So imo, definitely caused by a thumb, finger or something else being dragged across the wound once or twice from left to right, then lifted off to create those two dark blobs.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline John

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2017, 10:32:09 AM »
Try holding a rifle at arms length against ones neck to within half an inch without actually touching the skin, quite a feat.  Now imagine trying to do that while semi conscious, in agony and choking on blood.

Had Sheila shot herself a second time her blood would have been on the tip of the rifle as it was held against an already bleeding neck.  This would of course have resulted in blood smearing to the neck.  Neither of which was evident which speaks for itself.

Clearly her killer had no difficulty positioning the rifle for the second shot as she lay head back after the initial failed shot.

« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 10:34:21 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline APRIL

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2017, 12:34:35 PM »
Try holding a rifle at arms length against ones neck to within half an inch without actually touching the skin, quite a feat.  Now imagine trying to do that while semi conscious, in agony and choking on blood.

Had Sheila shot herself a second time her blood would have been on the tip of the rifle as it was held against an already bleeding neck.  This would of course have resulted in blood smearing to the neck.  Neither of which was evident which speaks for itself.

Clearly her killer had no difficulty positioning the rifle for the second shot as she lay head back after the initial failed shot.

You make a hugely valid point, John. Every time I've tried to imagine what it might feel like to be desperate enough to shoot myself, the rifle is always pushed into my neck as a way of steadying it and ensuring that if my hand moved as I pulled the trigger, the bullet would go where I wanted it to.

Offline Myster

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2017, 12:51:55 PM »
You make a hugely valid point, John. Every time I've tried to imagine what it might feel like to be desperate enough to shoot myself, the rifle is always pushed into my neck as a way of steadying it and ensuring that if my hand moved as I pulled the trigger, the bullet would go where I wanted it to.

Is that before or after watching an episode of Coronation Street?
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline APRIL

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2017, 02:15:34 PM »
Is that before or after watching an episode of Coronation Street?

I'm perfectly certain I'd want it to be over before Coronation Street @)(++(*

Offline Myster

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2017, 02:47:35 PM »
I'm perfectly certain I'd want it to be over before Coronation Street @)(++(*
But just think what I'd miss!... such as your glorious rendition of "Ombra mai fu".  8(8-))
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline APRIL

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2017, 03:53:14 PM »
But just think what I'd miss!... such as your glorious rendition of "Ombra mai fu".  8(8-))

Awwwwww 8)><( Do listen to the difference between Cecilia Bartoli and Kathleen Battle. I do prefer CB. So much more opulent......................Sorry Mods &%54%

Offline Angelo222

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2017, 04:20:34 PM »
Desperate people do shoot themselves and sometimes they make such a hash of it that a second bullet is needed to finish the job. In every occasion however the initial shot resulted in a non critical superficial wound which wasn't what occurred with Sheila Caffell.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Myster

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2017, 06:30:46 PM »
Awwwwww 8)><( Do listen to the difference between Cecilia Bartoli and Kathleen Battle. I do prefer CB. So much more opulent......................Sorry Mods &%54%

Sorry Mods... LOL!!!... when Holly and I are as guilty as each other for diverging from the relevant topic!

But Shhh!, while no-one's listening... yes I agree, Celia Bartoli puts Kathleen Battle in the shade (of that old plane tree) because she sings it in a deeper register and with less vibrato, which is more soothing and pleasanter on the ear.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: I despair sometimes of the rubbish posted on the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2017, 06:40:33 PM »
*Cecilia*... smacks bottom!
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.