Author Topic: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.  (Read 46541 times)

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Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2017, 07:53:41 AM »
There should be no marks on his thumb.
Yes there should be marks on Sheila's thumb but she washed herself in various ways.
This is probably a girl thing before suicide.

Myster: I am delighted to see you meditating on 23 year olds with powerful alibis and without motive being accused of crimes better ascribed to desperate  close relatives who see

NO WAY OUT.

You are a smart man.
I can teach you.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2017, 08:21:29 AM »
Motive?  Both Bamber and Bain were pi$$edoff with their families, wanted a way out and saw a pot of gold within easy reach for little effort... reasons enough.

Now what about why Bain dawdled for 20 plus minutes after seeing his dead parents or listening to Laniet gurgling?

It needs more than just his stock one word answer of "Slow", or that he was having one of those funny turns which conveniently started only a couple of weeks before (or months before until he changed his story).

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2017, 08:56:32 AM »
Motive?  Both Bamber and Bain were pi$$edoff with their families, wanted a way out and saw a pot of gold within easy reach for little effort... reasons enough.

Now what about why Bain dawdled for 20 plus minutes after seeing his dead parents or listening to Laniet gurgling?

It needs more than just his stock one word answer of "Slow", or that he was having one of those funny turns which conveniently started only a couple of weeks before (or months before until he changed his story).
Myster, did you see my import of the gun ballistic guy?
Trajectories are absolute in Bamber and Bain.
Sheila, Robin, laid waste to their families, themselves, and unwittingly destroyed their 23 year old hard working sons.
For pities sake Robin Bain tried to explain, but generations of morons are screwing that simple pooch.
O M G.
Just grow up you lot, study science, and stop revering that idiot Teresa May.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 09:03:41 AM by Samson »

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2017, 09:48:28 AM »
Yes, and I've read about and seen numerous photos/videos on rifle position and trajectory theories in the past - by Philip Boyce, Robert Ngamoki and others, but there are different interpretions to achieve a similar result, such as whether Robin Bain was sitting, kneeling or standing with his head vertical or tilted down sideways  There's no single definitive answer. He could have been blissfully unaware that he was about to be shot by a perp hiding behind the alcove curtain.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2017, 10:05:11 AM »
Must dash, work to do... but either Holly or this should satisfy you meanwhile...

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2017, 10:07:07 AM »
Ah yes, the Holy Grail that was supposed to exonerate David Bain... except that the "residue" lines on Robin's thumb aren't parallel, unlike the metal edges on the magazine; they differ in width (check it out with a ruler or piece of paper on your screen); and as numerous bullets had been loaded, there should have been more than just one pair of marks (or two pairs, if you want to stretch it by including other marks on his forefinger).

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8851997/Media-drawn-into-Bain-blame-game

Christ the state of his hands and nails?  Samson I assume NZ sells soap and nail brushes?  To my eyes his hands and nails look filthy with dirt and grime long embedded.  I'm not sure I see a connection between the marks and loading bullets.  Perhaps the state of his hands/nails were indicative of his mental state ie depressed. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2017, 10:12:00 AM »
Christ the state of his hands and nails?  Samson I assume NZ sells soap and nail brushes?  To my eyes his hands and nails look filthy with dirt and grime long embedded.  I'm not sure I see a connection between the marks and loading bullets.  Perhaps the state of his hands/nails were indicative of his mental state ie depressed. 
One of his school colleagues said he was a bit whiffy after sleeping in his van three days on the trot without washing.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2017, 10:14:19 AM »
Just catching up  8(0(*

 From Cynric Temple-Camp in his new book, in a rare moment where he gets it right.

All I can say is that people can and do have odd ideas, and pathologists are certainly not immune. As G.G. Kelly put it, talking about ballistic evidence in murder cases: ‘I soon learned the gun spoke eloquently, sincerely and truthfully; I have found that people sometimes fall a little short in this regard.

Meanwhile, fresh today is this Ian Binnie interview with the rugged Kim Hill.

Profound, lucid, lethal to NZ government.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201853679/justice-ian-binnie-compensating-david-bain

Watch carefully the adjustments to society that flow.
You Bamber people should LISTEN UP!!!

I like that.  So much so I might adopt it as my new tagline.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2017, 10:21:59 AM »
There should be no marks on his thumb.
Yes there should be marks on Sheila's thumb but she washed herself in various ways.
This is probably a girl thing before suicide.

Myster: I am delighted to see you meditating on 23 year olds with powerful alibis and without motive being accused of crimes better ascribed to desperate  close relatives who see

NO WAY OUT.

You are a smart man.
I can teach you.

Should there have been marks on SC's hands?  I loaded 10 bullets of the type used into the exact same mag and my hands were perfectly clean to the naked eye.  Perhaps I should go back to the gun shop and video the exercise  &%+((£
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2017, 11:05:51 AM »
Motive?  Both Bamber and Bain were pi$$edoff with their families, wanted a way out and saw a pot of gold within easy reach for little effort... reasons enough.

Now what about why Bain dawdled for 20 plus minutes after seeing his dead parents or listening to Laniet gurgling?

It needs more than just his stock one word answer of "Slow", or that he was having one of those funny turns which conveniently started only a couple of weeks before (or months before until he changed his story).

I think one has to look a lot deeper for motive.  Both families were grossly dysfunctional in different ways.  They were able to fall under the radar due to pre-conceived ideas about the parents particularly with regard to their affiliations to Christianity/church (there's a lot of insanity there  8)-))))

Bambers

Unable to conceive birth children so adopt.  By the time June adopted SC she had already suffered one breakdown all connected with her inability to conceive.  Having adopted SC she suffered a further breakdown again connected to the same theme. 

The Bambers should never have been approved to adopt in the first place let alone keep SC after June's second breakdown and go on to adopt JB. 

It seems SC and JB were largely brought up by others: nanny, au pairs and boarding school.  The relationship between June and SC seems off the richter scale in terms of dysfunction.  JB described his relationship with June as "rough and smooth". 

June's religiosity and attitude to sexual morality evidenced by referring to SC as the "Devil's child" for nude sunbathing and JM as a "harlot" for staying over at JB's.  Given June's attitude on these matters I find it difficult to see how she was able to view her adopted children, born illegitimate, in a positive light.

Bains

Many accounts describe the children as "running wild" in PNG.  All the research shows children fare better growing up with clear, consistent and fair boundaries. 

What qualified MB to homeschool her children?  Her diaries contain spelling mistakes. In any event surely mainstream school is about more than academic attainment and qualifications?  It provides opportunity for children to socialise with others outside the family?  Also if there are problems at home teachers can often pick up on and report to social services or others eg the twins teachers reporting back to CC re SC.

Numerous accounts that Laniet had turned to prostitution and accused her father of sexually abusing her.  She also discussed with others a rape and having a black baby in PNG.  The latter appears to have been a "fantasy".  Whether the former is true or not it is surely indicative that something is amiss if a child/young woman has such fantasies?

MB seeing the devil everywhere: husband, children, car, newspapers! 

The physical state of the parents and their dwellings.  Most people manage to keep themselves and property reasonably clean and tidy.  Perhaps indicative of depression/mental illness. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2017, 09:03:05 PM »
Posters are reminded that although David Bain has been refused compensation for the time he spent in prison, he was nevertheless found not guilty of the murders after his retrial in 2009 and this should be reflected accordingly in any comments.

Opinion should be clearly indicated in any posts. TY
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 07:50:49 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2017, 12:21:08 PM »
Posters are reminded that although David Bain has been refused compensation for the time he spent in prison, he was nevertheless found not guilty of the murders after his retrial in 2009 and this should be reflected accordingly in any comments.

Opinion should be clearly indicated in any posts. TY


It is frightening how these cases seem to hang in the balance with juries delivering different verdicts, reviews by QC's arriving at different conclusions and expert opinion all over the place.

Although DB was refused compensation he has received nearly 1 million NZ dollars as an 'ex-gratia' payment:

http://newzealand.lawfuel.com/david-bain-receive-almost-1-million-compensation/
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2017, 05:40:18 PM »
It is frightening how these cases seem to hang in the balance with juries delivering different verdicts, reviews by QC's arriving at different conclusions and expert opinion all over the place.

Although DB was refused compensation he has received nearly 1 million NZ dollars as an 'ex-gratia' payment:

http://newzealand.lawfuel.com/david-bain-receive-almost-1-million-compensation/

I totally agree Holly.   A jury finds David Bain not guilty after he has spends 13 years in prison, a Canadian judge is set the task of reviewing the case and recommends that he is paid compensation.  The Kiwi authorities dismiss the judges report and appoint another judge, this time from NZ to do a second review.  He submits that Bain should not be compensated for the time spent in prison after coming to the conclusion that on the balance of probabilities that Bain is NOT innocent. WTF!!!

The Canadian judge who did the original review has now severely criticised the former New Zealand Justice Minister and is accusing her of being biast towards David Bain.

He told the Weekend Herald that former Justice Minister Judith Collins had "a very definite bias" against Bain when she rejected Binnie's 2012 report finding that, "on the balance of probabilities", Bain was innocent of murdering his parents and three siblings in 1994.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11898989
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 05:46:24 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2017, 07:02:44 PM »
Have you listened to all ten of Martin van Beyens podcasts, John?  I know you don't have much time, with running the show and other commitments, but they're a well-reasoned account of why he thinks Robin Bain did not shoot his family and then himself.

It's easier to download them all first, then parts can be skipped, forwarded and returned to, as needed...

http://stuff.libsyn.com/

Some excellent sharp crime scene photos on the stuff site as well, such as the one below showing the entrance to David Bain's bedroom. When DB came home from his morning paper round, he must have hung up his yellow plastic delivery bag behind the door... but surely he couldn't have missed seeing the open wardrobe door where his rifle was kept, I believe, and the rifle trigger lock with key inserted, an empty red box of "Whisper" .22 ammo and a few unused rounds in front of the opened wardrobe drawer. It was a dark morning, but when the police arrived and peered through into his bedroom window, the light was on and he was sitting on the floor near his bed and wouldn't let them in, so they had to break a glass pane in the front door to gain access.

The trigger lock key was kept in that square pottery container in a different part of the room, but the hacky sack (or foot bag) which kids use to play keepy-uppy had been carefully replaced on top of its lid. Would Robin Bain have gone to such trouble if he was about to shoot himself?

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/evidence/

I've left the pics at their original size so as not to lose detail...
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 07:07:12 PM by Myster »

Offline John

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2017, 07:50:39 PM »
Have you listened to all ten of Martin van Beyens podcasts, John?  I know you don't have much time, with running the show and other commitments, but they're a well-reasoned account of why he thinks Robin Bain did not shoot his family and then himself.

It's easier to download them all first, then parts can be skipped, forwarded and returned to, as needed...

http://stuff.libsyn.com/

Some excellent sharp crime scene photos on the stuff site as well, such as the one below showing the entrance to David Bain's bedroom. When DB came home from his morning paper round, he must have hung up his yellow plastic delivery bag behind the door... but surely he couldn't have missed seeing the open wardrobe door where his rifle was kept, I believe, and the rifle trigger lock with key inserted, an empty red box of "Whisper" .22 ammo and a few unused rounds in front of the opened wardrobe drawer. It was a dark morning, but when the police arrived and peered through into his bedroom window, the light was on and he was sitting on the floor near his bed and wouldn't let them in, so they had to break a glass pane in the front door to gain access.

The trigger lock key was kept in that square pottery container in a different part of the room, but the hacky sack (or foot bag) which kids use to play keepy-uppy had been carefully replaced on top of its lid. Would Robin Bain have gone to such trouble if he was about to shoot himself?

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/evidence/

I've left the pics at their original size so as not to lose detail...

Thanx for that Myster.  I know very little of the case but I have found it compelling to the extent that I would like to look further into it.  The blood on David Bain's gloves which were found under his brothers bed is very strange, curiously, he hasn't been able to explain their presence.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:12:27 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.