Author Topic: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.  (Read 60801 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2017, 07:33:00 PM »
Stephen's room was swimming in it, the others went unknowingly to their deaths with much less spilled.

Yes but I think SB only sustained one gsw?  It went through his hand and somehow grazed his head too.  Cause of death was strangulation?   This makes you wonder about the "violent struggle" in the kitchen at WHF with so little blood?  NB sustained 7 gsw's and had to walk from upstairs to the kitchen.  Although I will concede NB didn't sustain any exit wounds, unlike SB, and it's these wounds which bleed profusely hence all the blood in the main bedroom from June's exit gsw's.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2017, 09:17:10 PM »
Yes but I think SB only sustained one gsw?  It went through his hand and somehow grazed his head too.  Cause of death was strangulation?   This makes you wonder about the "violent struggle" in the kitchen at WHF with so little blood?  NB sustained 7 gsw's and had to walk from upstairs to the kitchen.  Although I will concede NB didn't sustain any exit wounds, unlike SB, and it's these wounds which bleed profusely hence all the blood in the main bedroom from June's exit gsw's.

Stephen was shot through the top of his head, in addition to the hand and resultant head graze - two bullets.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2017, 10:24:08 PM »
David Bain had little money, no regular income apart from his paper round, and was irritated by the lack of any progress being made in the construction of a new home which his mother had drawn up and submitted plans for.  Allegedly, Robin Bain wasn't as enthusiastic about the project, and his eldest son increasingly flexed his muscle in the Bain household to dominate his younger siblings. What easier way out than to get rid of them all in order to improve his dire situation with the money set aside by his parents for the rebuild.

Why would Robin leave that cryptic computer message praising David over all the others, when in fact Stephen and Arawa were getting on just fine with their father and their own lives at school and college?  It only makes sense if David typed it on the computer, rather than writing it out longhand to avoid any suspicion that the message was his.

After finishing his paper round, what does David do?  Washes his "black hands", switches on the washing machine, then goes back upstairs into his bedroom, notices his wardrobe door open with numerous bullets, an empty ammo box and his rifle trigger lock with key scattered on the floor... but no rifle.  He must have gone searching for it and discovered his family's bodies, but then stalls for 20 minutes before calling for help!  What would any sensible son who cared about his family do on discovering such carnage?  That's right... call emergency services asap, or go find the nearest passer-by or neighbour to raise the alarm. The long delay makes no sense!

When interviewed by police, he claimed that he hadn't seen Stephen's, Laniet's or Arawa's bodies, only those of his mum and dad, yet in the 111 call he repeated FIVE times that ALL his family were dead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7HsjKDSaKA

In court, he contradicted himself again by stating that he heard Laniet gurgling when he went into her room, but in 2012 told Justice Binnie he had no recall of any gurgling!!!

http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence/david-stated-that-he-heard-laniet-gurgling

Those were only three slip-ups, but there are just too many other contradictions for me to believe anything other than David Bain was responsible.
Gurgling is extremely common. Paramedics who attend accidents describe it all the time. Dempster emailed the court before the second trial reversing his testimony because he had encountered an identical scenario in another death. The gurgling was thus discounted as meaning anything.Always figure why a guilty man would raise an obscure point that would incriminate.
The case is over, Robin Bain killed his family then himself just like Sheila Caffel.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #78 on: August 09, 2017, 10:21:01 AM »
Gurgling is extremely common. Paramedics who attend accidents describe it all the time. Dempster emailed the court before the second trial reversing his testimony because he had encountered an identical scenario in another death. The gurgling was thus discounted as meaning anything.Always figure why a guilty man would raise an obscure point that would incriminate.
The case is over, Robin Bain killed his family then himself just like Sheila Caffel.

I know little about the case and I'm sure if I knew more the answer to the following question would be obvious based on the SoC but is it possible MB was responsible and DB relocated the rifle etc to save his mother's reputation?

Samson I'm surprised more hasn't been made about the level of dysfunction within the family.  Surely there's an argument the children should have been removed from the Bains long before the murders or at the very least the family required monitoring by social services? 

It's difficult to know what came first mental illness or religious mania but IMO the matriarchs within the Bain and Bamber families suffered both and it had an adverse effect on other family members.  Within these outwardly respectable middle class families the matriarchs version of Christianity was as dangerous as Islamic extremism. 

Low socio economic families are easily picked up on: drink, drugs, criminality, violence etc but the above just seem to fall under the radar. 

IMO it's way too simple to think DB or JB murdered for money against the background.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #79 on: August 09, 2017, 12:05:27 PM »
Stephen was shot through the top of his head, in addition to the hand and resultant head graze - two bullets.

Ok thanks I wasn't sure.  And the other victims all sustained 1 gsw including RB?  Quite a contrast with WHF where all sustained multiple gsw's.  The rifle and ammo used in both were similar: .22 semi-auto and sub-sonic bullets.  It is often said JB underestimated the rifle hence multiple gsw's required but with the Bains we can see that wasn't the case.  Head shots were lethal.  Of course those who believe JB guilty will say he fired indiscrimately to 'set the scene' and create an illusion of an amateurish SC going mad!   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #80 on: August 09, 2017, 12:35:22 PM »
Gurgling is extremely common. Paramedics who attend accidents describe it all the time. Dempster emailed the court before the second trial reversing his testimony because he had encountered an identical scenario in another death. The gurgling was thus discounted as meaning anything.Always figure why a guilty man would raise an obscure point that would incriminate.
The case is over, Robin Bain killed his family then himself just like Sheila Caffel.

There's no doubt in my mind SC took her own life and I'm inclined to think RB went the same way.

The problem is these cases take on a life of their own and even when convictions are overturned there will still be some, lay and professional, who will continue to stand by the original verdict.  Unfortunately very few cases are as clear cut as the case of Stefan Kiszko where there's indisputable forensic evidence.   

In the cases of DB and JB mistakes were made over the gathering of evidence and destruction of exhibits.

Amazing that the NZ gov invited Justice Binnie from Canada to conduct a review of DB's claim for compensation.  It appears the NZ gov didn't like his conclusions and so invite a homegrown QC, Robert Fisher, to conduct a review who severely criticises Justice Binnie's review!  Why not just say this is the outcome we're looking for can you provide it?  If not don't bother!  If I was Justice Binnie I would be  8()(((@#
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #81 on: August 09, 2017, 12:56:58 PM »
There's no doubt in my mind SC took her own life and I'm inclined to think RB went the same way.

Unfortunately, in the WHF case, the forensics don't support that view.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 10:43:38 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #82 on: August 09, 2017, 01:34:46 PM »
Unfortunately, in the WHF case, the forensics don't support that view.

I believe much of what was presented at trial was incomplete and at times false.  We will have to be patient and see what any new appeal throws up. 

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #83 on: August 09, 2017, 04:18:24 PM »
MB wouldn't have known one end of a rifle from the other, (now where have I read that somewhere before?). It was David's rifle, and he was the licence holder.

DB borrowed MB's spare spectacles after he fell outside and damaged his own during choir practice the previous Thursday. He wore them on the Sunday night prior to the murders, but at the first trial his lawyer said that David had told him he had only used them months before. The lawyer thought this so so serious, he advised the opposition of what he'd said, but the latter didn't pursue it in court.

MB's damaged specs and loose right lens were found on a chair in David's room, whereas the missing left lens was discovered on the floor in Stephen's room under an anorak near his body.

MB had no blood on her person other than her own from a single eye shot, therefore none from any fight with Stephen.

I think I recall reading DB used the rifle for bunny hunting?  No one seems to have suggested RB would not have the prerequisite skills to load the mag, operate the rifle and take aim at the victims.  And yet there's no evidence he had any more or less experience with firearms than SC?  It seems RB assisted DB to sight the rifle but SC was around firearms and those that use them during her childhood and adulthood at WHF.  Is this a sexist thing?  Ie no one questions a scruffy middle-aged man's ability in this regard but an attractive woman who took care of her appearance by way of her nails etc was in 1985/86 seen as too incompetent?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Angelo222

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #84 on: August 10, 2017, 01:05:26 PM »
The bit I find puzzling is why David Bain didn't immediately telephone the police or run out for help when he found the first body.  That twenty minute time delay is very significant imo as was his behaviour when the police first arrived.  It all adds up to one big can of worms in my view.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 10:50:44 AM by John »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #85 on: August 10, 2017, 01:29:59 PM »
Listening to the following got me thinking about MB as the perp with DB re-setting the scene to absolve his mother.

http://stuff.libsyn.com/mrs-bain-the-diary-and-the-devil

It features a psychologist and educational consultant who was acquainted with RB and agreed to help the family.  She visited the home once only and described it is as dirty and cluttered with dirty underpants mixed up with old food and fat dripping down walls.  The children run around naked and she described the scene as "chaos".  She agreed to interview each member of the family and make reccommendations as to what type of therapy was required.  She described MB as the dangerous one who wanted to get inside everyone's mind and control them and describes a pathological dysfunction never before witnessed.  MB apparently talked non-stop and didn't appear to listen and was worried her children were developing their own thoughts and no longer under her control.  She also constantly put RB down and yet she wanted to resume her sex life with him!?   &%+((£

The parents apparently thought the outside world was full of evil and they created a wonderful protective environment from outside influences for their children. 

She also described RB as pathologically dysfunctional. 

She described DB as close to his mother and the only one of the children who showed respect towards his father.

It seems to me the parents were suffering from depression and mental illness and one or the other was reponsible for the murders. 

65 Every street was set out on two levels.  MB, DB, LB and SB slept upstairs and AB downstairs.  RB slept outside the property in a campervan. 

The order of the shootings has never been established.  If MB was the perp with DB out on his paper round and RB still in his campervan this wound mean MB would need to shoot 2 victims upstairs: LB and SB and 1 victim downstairs: AB.  She would then wait until RB entered in the morning as per his normal routine and shoot him.  This is far more doable imo than either RB or DB shooting three victims upstairs: MB, LB and SB and 1 victim downstairs: AB. 

The bloody footprints, which measured 280mm, were mostly just outside and inside MB's bedroom.  RB's foot was said to measure 270mm and DB's 300mm.  Did the 280mm represent MB's foot?

This could explain so much:

- A right-handed person 'committing suicide' with a gunshot to the left temple. 

- DB's delay in calling emergency services

- DB's fingerprints supposedly found in blood on the rifle. 

- MB sustained a gsw to the eye "an eye for an eye"!

I don't know much about the case so Samson will probably be able to blow the above out of the water with one sentence.   Also would a very overweight MB be in a position to overpower SB?  But this might explain the blood smears around the door frames from a large person blustering around. 

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #86 on: August 10, 2017, 01:50:29 PM »
The bit I find puzzling is why David Bain didn't immediately telephone the police or run out for help when he found the first body.  That twenty minute time delay is very significant imo as was his behaviour when the police first arrived.  It all adds up to one big can of worms in my view.

As I understand it he returned from his paper round and assumed the victims were still sleeping in their respective bedrooms as usual.  He was assigned various chores by his mother of which one was the laundry so he got on with doing this before he was aware anything was amiss. 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 10:50:55 AM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #87 on: August 10, 2017, 01:51:24 PM »
The bit I find puzzling is why David Bain didn't immediately telephone the police or run out for help when he found the first body.  That twenty minute time delay is very significant imo as was his behaviour when the police first arrived.  It all adds up to one big can of worms in my view.
There's an awful lot that's puzzling, not just a bit!  DB wouldn't even let the police in the house after he phoned the emergency number for help, so they had to break a glass pane to the right of the door to let themselves in. In that call he repeated numerous times that ALL his family were dead, but in a police interview with Det.Sgt Greg Dunne the following day, he stated that he'd ONLY seen the bodies of his parents, even when asked to confirm, and hadn't even noticed the rifle lying by the side of his dad, but was still near enough to see blood on his face!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhQJCJCZtk&feature=youtu.be&t=4m
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 10:51:09 AM by John »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #88 on: August 10, 2017, 01:58:26 PM »
As I understand it he returned from his paper round and assumed the victims were still sleeping in their respective bedrooms as usual.  He was assigned various chores by his mother of which one was the laundry so he got on with doing this before he was aware anything was amiss.
... and didn't notice any blood on clothes left in the laundry basket, but left fingerprints on the side of the Hoover toploader and blood on the washing powder container sitting on the shelf above. Furthermore, he claimed that he separated whites from coloureds, yet when police hung them out to dry they were all in the same wash.

The laundry/washroom showing Hoover toploader with laundry basket in front, and shelf with "Will Power" washing powder which had a blood stain on it...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:26:55 PM by Myster »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #89 on: August 10, 2017, 02:09:54 PM »
Listening to the following got me thinking about MB as the perp with DB re-setting the scene to absolve his mother.

http://stuff.libsyn.com/mrs-bain-the-diary-and-the-devil

It features a psychologist and educational consultant who was acquainted with RB and agreed to help the family.  She visited the home once only and described it is as dirty and cluttered with dirty underpants mixed up with old food and fat dripping down walls.  The children run around naked and she described the scene as "chaos".  She agreed to interview each member of the family and make reccommendations as to what type of therapy was required.  She described MB as the dangerous one who wanted to get inside everyone's mind and control them and describes a pathological dysfunction never before witnessed.  MB apparently talked non-stop and didn't appear to listen and was worried her children were developing their own thoughts and no longer under her control.  She also constantly put RB down and yet she wanted to resume her sex life with him!?   &%+((£

The parents apparently thought the outside world was full of evil and they created a wonderful protective environment from outside influences for their children. 

She also described RB as pathologically dysfunctional. 

She described DB as close to his mother and the only one of the children who showed respect towards his father.

It seems to me the parents were suffering from depression and mental illness and one or the other was reponsible for the murders. 

65 Every street was set out on two levels.  MB, DB, LB and SB slept upstairs and AB downstairs.  RB slept outside the property in a campervan. 

The order of the shootings has never been established.  If MB was the perp with DB out on his paper round and RB still in his campervan this wound mean MB would need to shoot 2 victims upstairs: LB and SB and 1 victim downstairs: AB.  She would then wait until RB entered in the morning as per his normal routine and shoot him.  This is far more doable imo than either RB or DB shooting three victims upstairs: MB, LB and SB and 1 victim downstairs: AB. 

The bloody footprints, which measured 280mm, were mostly just outside and inside MB's bedroom.  RB's foot was said to measure 270mm and DB's 300mm.  Did the 280mm represent MB's foot?

This could explain so much:

- A right-handed person 'committing suicide' with a gunshot to the left temple. 

- DB's delay in calling emergency services

- DB's fingerprints supposedly found in blood on the rifle. 

- MB sustained a gsw to the eye "an eye for an eye"!

I don't know much about the case so Samson will probably be able to blow the above out of the water with one sentence.   Also would a very overweight MB be in a position to overpower SB?  But this might explain the blood smears around the door frames from a large person blustering around.

He travelled to school in his Commer van, but slept in a dilapidated caravan in the back garden. It was situated to the north of the house (to the left in the aerial view). In the caravan photo you can make out a gable end and chimney of the house (north side) at the top right hand corner. The rotary clothes drier on which police hung out the spun washing is just visible to the bottom of the aerial view.

ETA: a larger aerial view of the Bain house and grounds, with caravan in back garden and Commer campervan in drive.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 02:58:59 PM by Myster »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.