UK Justice Forum

Off Topic and General Discussions => Off topic, general discussions and the Wide Awake Club. => Topic started by: david1819 on February 06, 2015, 10:29:57 PM

Title: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: david1819 on February 06, 2015, 10:29:57 PM
Jack Whomes and Michael Steele convicted of Shooting Tony Tucker and Patrick Tate in 1995

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/suffolk_essex_my_son_s_no_gangland_assassin_and_i_ll_never_give_up_on_him_says_mother_of_jack_whomes_the_man_convicted_of_the_essex_boys_murders_1_3599431 (http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/suffolk_essex_my_son_s_no_gangland_assassin_and_i_ll_never_give_up_on_him_says_mother_of_jack_whomes_the_man_convicted_of_the_essex_boys_murders_1_3599431)

I have always had doubts about this. Could it Justify a topic section under the alleged MoJ section?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on February 10, 2015, 08:27:59 PM
Jack Whomes and Michael Steele convicted of Shooting Tony Tucker and Patrick Tate in 1995

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/suffolk_essex_my_son_s_no_gangland_assassin_and_i_ll_never_give_up_on_him_says_mother_of_jack_whomes_the_man_convicted_of_the_essex_boys_murders_1_3599431 (http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/suffolk_essex_my_son_s_no_gangland_assassin_and_i_ll_never_give_up_on_him_says_mother_of_jack_whomes_the_man_convicted_of_the_essex_boys_murders_1_3599431)

I have always had doubts about this. Could it Justify a topic section under the alleged MoJ section?
In answer to the thread title...in my opinion, definitely not.

There was a mountain of circumstantial evidence including detailed telephone logs, which were extremely incriminating. 

Incidentally, there was a third man in the Range Rover, Craig Rolfe, who was also killed.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: a.baker on February 11, 2015, 02:37:26 AM
Definitely not imo too. Due to the connection with another man which is not widely known,I am certainly confident the right men were convicted.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on February 11, 2015, 07:10:27 AM
Definitely not imo too. Due to the connection with another man which is not widely known,I am certainly confident the right men were convicted.
Who is the other man that you refer to?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: david1819 on February 12, 2015, 10:09:22 AM
I'm not to sure.

The conviction was based on the testimony of one man after being caught drug smuggling.

However they will be eligible for release soon so why still protest innocence after all this time?
From what I have read the three men shot had enemies left right and centre so woulden't confessing to the crime give them bragging rights and infamy in the underworld they are apart of?

Just a thought
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 12, 2015, 11:27:13 PM
hi at 6pm on the evening of the murders rolfe gave his girlfreind 60 pounds to buy a dress to wear later that evening as he dropped her off he told her he and the boys were going to meet mickey steel to look at a landing site for a light plane to drop drugs.its in her police statement
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on December 13, 2015, 08:42:30 AM
hi at 6pm on the evening of the murders rolfe gave his girlfreind 60 pounds to buy a dress to wear later that evening as he dropped her off he told her he and the boys were going to meet mickey steel to look at a landing site for a light plane to drop drugs.its in her police statement
Thats right Sherlock.  Nicholls was also able to recount the story told to him by Steele, of Tate receiving a call from his partner, Sarah Saunders moments before the murders. 
Many would like to believe that others were responsible for the murders but the evidence is absolutely over whelming.  Essex Police, to their credit, conducted a superb investigation.  Mobile phone records place all the main protagonists in the tiny village of Rettendon on the evening that the murders were committed.  Now, what's the chances of that!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: mercury on December 13, 2015, 08:52:03 AM
Decidedly "dodgy" case
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 13, 2015, 03:39:31 PM
i have no doubt there was a 3rd killer lying in wait for the car to arrive the grass was disturbed and police believe a man was hiding there.the 3rd man i wont name on a website .but was known to the murdered gang and was a friend at one time . without doubt rolfe was shot first and didnt know what hit him.his foot was still on the brake and hands  were holding the steering. tucker may have turned and seen the killer which is why the the 1st headshot he received got him in the jaw he moved his head .tate saw and even spoke to the killer when he was shot in the stomach.you see the 3 were ambushed the shots were fired so quick 3 seconds from a automatic shotgun.that is why the killer didnt aim at tates head but his stomach couldnt miss. every one had to be subdued first than the doors were opened in turn and the 3 were finished off with headshots .the trigger man had been well accustomed to firearms had served in  the army in northern ireland where he was also taught ambush techniques and also participated in ambushing IRA members.the plan was for steel to exit the car from the passenger door behind the driver and to make sure the car door was left open when he got out to open the gate.rolfe had to be ambushed and shot cleanly otherwise he would see the guns and slam on the accelerator than  slam it in reverse .he was taken out cleanly leaving the other 2 as sitting ducks.i dont think steel and whomes did any shooting in the ambush .this was left to the professional .the 3rd man.whomes and steel may have helped in  finishing off the 3 .after the pro had subdued them .ie. the first 3 shots rolfe back of the head instant death.tucker the mouth.and tate the stomach.steel allegedly said to tate you want to f--k with me.youre not in the same league .than tate was finished off.steel was no mug he was a drug wholesaler not a small time drug dealer he dealt in tens of kilos customs once found 50 kilos on his property.after the death of leah betts from taking an ecstasy pill.the tate gang started bullying steel .tucker also made threats to the 3rd unnamed killer.words were iam going to f--king do you .and so steel and the 3rd killer hatched a plan .steel to bring them to a location and the 3rd killer to do the ambush and shooting.steel played on tate gangs greed and told them a fanciful story of million pound drugs plane which could be robbed and they fell for it hook.line.and sinker .so that evening tates gang thought they were going to look at a landing site.the rest is history.the 3rd killer was not nipper .eventhough he brags he was.nipper was in hiding.essex boys the film is as close to the truth as one can get.because the 3rd killer was employed to help with the production
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 13, 2015, 08:33:35 PM
Thats right Sherlock.  Nicholls was also able to recount the story told to him by Steele, of Tate receiving a call from his partner, Sarah Saunders moments before the murders. 
Many would like to believe that others were responsible for the murders but the evidence is absolutely over whelming.  Essex Police, to their credit, conducted a superb investigation.  Mobile phone records place all the main protagonists in the tiny village of Rettendon on the evening that the murders were committed.  Now, what's the chances of that!
hi sika the police did not want to stick any charges on the 3rd killer because he was their star witness in the leah betts case.policemans daughter who died after taken an E .the 3rd killer claimed while looking at the site where his former Friends were killed he found a unspent shotgun cartridge panicked and threw it near a oak tree .the police didnt bother to have a search for it even though it could be part of the ammo the killers bought to the site on the evening of the murders.he told the police this .so if there was ever a cartridge found there.with the 3rd killers print on it it could be explained .he obviously lost a cartridge on the cold dark night of the murders.master stroke by the killers was to lure the gang to a place were a shotgun range was .hence if people heard shots on the evening of the murders they would assume someone was clay pigeon shooting.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: david1819 on December 14, 2015, 07:23:28 PM
i have no doubt there was a 3rd killer lying in wait for the car to arrive the grass was disturbed and police believe a man was hiding there.the 3rd man i wont name on a website .but was known to the murdered gang and was a friend at one time . without doubt rolfe was shot first and didnt know what hit him.his foot was still on the brake and hands  were holding the steering. tucker may have turned and seen the killer which is why the the 1st headshot he received got him in the jaw he moved his head .tate saw and even spoke to the killer when he was shot in the stomach.you see the 3 were ambushed the shots were fired so quick 3 seconds from a automatic shotgun.that is why the killer didnt aim at tates head but his stomach couldnt miss. every one had to be subdued first than the doors were opened in turn and the 3 were finished off with headshots .the trigger man had been well accustomed to firearms had served in  the army in northern ireland where he was also taught ambush techniques and also participated in ambushing IRA members.the plan was for steel to exit the car from the passenger door behind the driver and to make sure the car door was left open when he got out to open the gate.rolfe had to be ambushed and shot cleanly otherwise he would see the guns and slam on the accelerator than  slam it in reverse .he was taken out cleanly leaving the other 2 as sitting ducks.i dont think steel and whomes did any shooting in the ambush .this was left to the professional .the 3rd man.whomes and steel may have helped in  finishing off the 3 .after the pro had subdued them .ie. the first 3 shots rolfe back of the head instant death.tucker the mouth.and tate the stomach.steel allegedly said to tate you want to f--k with me.youre not in the same league .than tate was finished off.steel was no mug he was a drug wholesaler not a small time drug dealer he dealt in tens of kilos customs once found 50 kilos on his property.after the death of leah betts from taking an ecstasy pill.the tate gang started bullying steel .tucker also made threats to the 3rd unnamed killer.words were iam going to f--king do you .and so steel and the 3rd killer hatched a plan .steel to bring them to a location and the 3rd killer to do the ambush and shooting.steel played on tate gangs greed and told them a fanciful story of million pound drugs plane which could be robbed and they fell for it hook.line.and sinker .so that evening tates gang thought they were going to look at a landing site.the rest is history.the 3rd killer was not nipper .eventhough he brags he was.nipper was in hiding.essex boys the film is as close to the truth as one can get.because the 3rd killer was employed to help with the production

Is the 3rd killer in your theory Bernard Omahoney?

I am not convinced looking at the crime scene that Pat Tate died in the way you described.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 14, 2015, 08:29:07 PM
Is the 3rd killer in your theory Bernard Omahoney?

I am not convinced looking at the crime scene that Pat Tate died in the way you described.
yes i think so .tate was shot in the stomach first because they wanted words with him.after words were exchanged or while they were exchanged .steel or whomes may have shot tate in the back of the head through the glass. tate had both legs flat on the back seat like he was trying to cower in the corner.Nicol's would not have known the 3rd killer was laying in wait because he never went to the scene .3rd killer after finishing his nights work simply walked back to a hotel about a mile away from the crime scene thats where he spent the day and night of the murders
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: david1819 on December 14, 2015, 10:23:40 PM
yes i think so .tate was shot in the stomach first because they wanted words with him.after words were exchanged or while they were exchanged .steel or whomes may have shot tate in the back of the head through the glass. tate had both legs flat on the back seat like he was trying to cower in the corner.Nicol's would not have known the 3rd killer was laying in wait because he never went to the scene .3rd killer after finishing his nights work simply walked back to a hotel about a mile away from the crime scene thats where he spent the day and night of the murders

If he was the there then your version of events is true as that is what he said happens. However I don't believe he was, It looks to me like pat was shot through the glass window from his left then very soon after the other assassin shoots him in the ribs to his right or it could be the other way round but in a very short period of time. I don't think there was any talking and they all barely knew what hit them
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 14, 2015, 10:41:49 PM
If he was the there then your version of events is true as that is what he said happens. However I don't believe he was, It looks to me like pat was shot through the glass window from his left then very soon after the other assassin shoots him in the ribs to his right or it could be the other way round but in a very short period of time. I don't think there was any talking and they all barely knew what hit them
yea you could be right dave.i live in east london and a few top tier villians suggest he was .plus his own bragging.him and his family were in a hotel about a mile away those are his own words.i think they had a few words with tate before they finished him.i know what i would have said to Tate .when you f--k with the wrong people this is what you get .bang.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 14, 2015, 10:57:25 PM
 steel certainly didnt fire the first 3 shots he got out and walked in front of the car the gangs eyes were on him.i dont think whomes could get them 3 shots off.whomes  never lived on a farm and i doubt if he had ever fired a shotgun .never held a firearms licence
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 14, 2015, 11:11:47 PM
If he was the there then your version of events is true as that is what he said happens. However I don't believe he was, It looks to me like pat was shot through the glass window from his left then very soon after the other assassin shoots him in the ribs to his right or it could be the other way round but in a very short period of time. I don't think there was any talking and they all barely knew what hit them
all were executed with headshots.therefor it makes no sense to shoot tate in stomach if he had already been shot in the head .if the head shot was first the next shots would also be to the head just like tucker and Rolfe.no i think Tate's first shot was stomach in the few seconds it took to kill the front 2 .Tate might have tryed to make some sought of move on the gun .and killer didnt want that.so he was quickly shot in stomach first to immobilise him
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on December 14, 2015, 11:17:49 PM
Bernard O'mahoney had no connections to Steele, Whomes or Nicholls.  Furthermore, there was no telephone traffic between O'mahoney and the three.  O'mahoney had allegedly received a warning from the Police that his life had been threatened by TT&R.  However, O'mahoney has for twenty years now, sought to cash in on the whole saga, over egging his involvement and claiming to have inside information.  His words cannot be trusted.  For years, he vehemently claimed that Steele & Whomes were innocent, before revealing last week, that he knew all along, they were guilty!

He has very recently made one last desperate attempt to squeeze a few more quid out of the story.  He justifiys doing this by claiming that enough lives have been ruined and it has become immoral!! It just so happens that his decision to do this, coincides with the 20 year anniversary of the murders!!

Don't get me wrong, good luck to him, there are far worse ways to make a living.  I actually owe him a great debt.  His web site contained hundreds of pages of statements and court transcripts, which build a very clear story as to what exactly happened, before, during and after the murders.  Having read through all of this information, I was left in absolutely no doubt whatsoever, that the Police had the right men.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 14, 2015, 11:38:07 PM
Bernard Imagine had no connections to Steele, Whomes or Nichol ls.  Furthermore, there was no telephone traffic between Imagine and the three.  Imagine had allegedly received a warning from the Police that his life had been threatened by TT&R.  However, O'mahoney has for twenty years now, sought to cash in on the whole saga, over egging his involvement and claiming to have inside information.  His words cannot be trusted.  For years, he vehemently claimed that Steele & Whomes were innocent, before revealing last week, that he knew all along, they were guilty!

He has very recently made one last desperate attempt to squeeze a few more quid out of the story.  He justifiys doing this by claiming that enough lives have been ruined and it has become immoral!! It just so happens that his decision to do this, coincides with the 20 year anniversary of the murders!!

Don't get me wrong, good luck to him, there are far worse ways to make a living.  I actually owe him a great debt.  His web site contained hundreds of pages of statements and court transcripts, which build a very clear story as to what exactly happened, before, during and after the murders.  Having read through all of this information, I was left in absolutely no doubt whatsoever, that the Police had the right men.
his own words were when tucker told him not to deal with the police about telling them where the E tab had come from.when he refused tucker said iam going to f--k do you .you dont threaten him and getaway with it .a man who ambushed and had fire fights with IRA members.why would he make up the story of the cartridge he found.or the hand print of his .he told police he had touched the range rover just above drivers door .would a person experienced in guns panic if he found a cartridge at a previous crime scene and throw it .NO.if he had nothing to do with it he would have taken the cartridge to the police .he says hes a villain but is not partial to helping police.as the great Danny woolard said .you dont help the police you tell em f--k all
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 14, 2015, 11:52:10 PM
Bernard O'mahoney had no connections to Steele, Whomes or Nicholls.  Furthermore, there was no telephone traffic between O'mahoney and the three.  O'mahoney had allegedly received a warning from the Police that his life had been threatened by TT&R.  However, O'mahoney has for twenty years now, sought to cash in on the whole saga, over egging his involvement and claiming to have inside information.  His words cannot be trusted.  For years, he vehemently claimed that Steele & Whomes were innocent, before revealing last week, that he knew all along, they were guilty!

He has very recently made one last desperate attempt to squeeze a few more quid out of the story.  He justifiys doing this by claiming that enough lives have been ruined and it has become immoral!! It just so happens that his decision to do this, coincides with the 20 year anniversary of the murders!!

Don't get me wrong, good luck to him, there are far worse ways to make a living.  I actually owe him a great debt.  His web site contained hundreds of pages of statements and court transcripts, which build a very clear story as to what exactly happened, before, during and after the murders.  Having read through all of this information, I was left in absolutely no doubt whatsoever, that the Police had the right men.
omahoneys own words while at the hospital after nipper had shot tate nicolls was present so they did know eachother.also this is when tate asked omah to help set up nipper.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: david1819 on December 15, 2015, 01:30:46 AM
yea you could be right dave.i live in east london and a few top tier villians suggest he was .plus his own bragging.him and his family were in a hotel about a mile away those are his own words.i think they had a few words with tate before they finished him.i know what i would have said to Tate .when you f--k with the wrong people this is what you get .bang.

Top tier Villians by into rumors like anyone else does. When people brag specially on TV its a good indicator it never happened or its a gross fabrication to the point of lying, I grew up in West Essex now live in east London, I know several people via my dad and granddad people now in their 70s to 90s who were involved in organised crime working with people like the Kray twins and god knows who else, Thing is they never talk about it and rarely go into detail about what they got up to its as if they are ashamed of it, I think that sais allot really. Hence why I don't think much of those that tell the world about their alleged amazing action packed gangster adventures in books TVs and films.

Back to the Range Rover shooting. In my scenario you must bare in mind that its dark and the would be assassins will have their adrenaline pumping as its about to kick off they may even be on drugs also.

I think the two would be assassins approached the car from both sides, One shoots pat in the head through the glass then the other assassin shoots pat in the ribs a second or two after he has shot Rolfe and Tucker, Not realising it was not really needed. Taking time to talk to Patrick Tate would be a huge risk for the killers he could have had a 9mm pistol in his jacket handy for all they know or being at such close range he could have grabbed one of the shot gun barrels putting the entire plan in jeopardy.

Also I think the extra shots to Tucker and Rolfe may indicate they were more hated than Patrick was, Rise of the footsoilder overplayed patricks reputation, Allot of people said nice things about Pat Tate and that he was an alright guy when he was in legit business it all seemed to spiral down when he began using drugs and got involved with Tucker and Omahoney. I cant recall anyone saying nice things about Tucker and Rolfe seems they were career criminals from day one. So lets not assume Pat was the most hated to the point they needed a word before they shot him.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on December 15, 2015, 06:43:24 AM
omahoneys own words while at the hospital after nipper had shot tate nicolls was present so they did know eachother.also this is when tate asked omah to help set up nipper.
It was not O'mahoney at the hospital with Nicholls.  He is quoting Tates friend and business associate, Barry Dorman.

As far as I'm aware, O'mahoney has never claimed to have met Steele, Nicholls or Whomes.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 15, 2015, 02:12:39 PM
It was not O'mahoney at the hospital with Nicholls.  He is quoting Tates friend and business associate, Barry Dorman.

As far as I'm aware, O'mahoney has never claimed to have met Steele, Nicholls or Whomes.
true.but give me one good reason why bernie would make a statement about finding the shotgun cartridge which may have his print on it.if he wasnt there .why make yourself a suspect if you had nothing to do with it .he has no alibi for the evening of the murders his story about being at hotel on evening of the murders was not investigated.it would be getting dark about 5pm on that evening he could have easily walked the distance to  the crime scene through fields and not be seen.police did find footprints in the snow in a field.but you are right the stories he is telling like the phone call threat from tucker cannot be proven.and should be taken with a pinch of salt.the statement he makes about approaching tuckers bouncer friend and telling him he had nothing to do with the murders.also sounds dubious.but if he did. it was to counter any words tucker might have told his Friend about what he is going to do to police helper bernie
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: rotti on December 15, 2015, 02:41:08 PM
Top tier Villians by into rumors like anyone else does. When people brag specially on TV its a good indicator it never happened or its a gross fabrication to the point of lying, I grew up in West Essex now live in east London, I know several people via my dad and granddad people now in their 70s to 90s who were involved in organised crime working with people like the Kray twins and god knows who else, Thing is they never talk about it and rarely go into detail about what they got up to its as if they are ashamed of it, I think that sais allot really. Hence why I don't think much of those that tell the world about their alleged amazing action packed gangster adventures in books TVs and films.

Back to the Range Rover shooting. In my scenario you must bare in mind that its dark and the would be assassins will have their adrenaline pumping as its about to kick off they may even be on drugs also.

I think the two would be assassins approached the car from both sides, One shoots pat in the head through the glass then the other assassin shoots pat in the ribs a second or two after he has shot Rolfe and Tucker, Not realising it was not really needed. Taking time to talk to Patrick Tate would be a huge risk for the killers he could have had a 9mm pistol in his jacket handy for all they know or being at such close range he could have grabbed one of the shot gun barrels putting the entire plan in jeopardy.

Also I think the extra shots to Tucker and Rolfe may indicate they were more hated than Patrick was, Rise of the footsoilder overplayed patricks reputation, Allot of people said nice things about Pat Tate and that he was an alright guy when he was in legit business it all seemed to spiral down when he began using drugs and got involved with Tucker and Omahoney. I cant recall anyone saying nice things about Tucker and Rolfe seems they were career criminals from day one. So lets not assume Pat was the most hated to the point they needed a word before they shot him.
adrenalin would be pumping yes .but i dont think saying a few words which would take 30 seconds would put them in any more  danger they chose the site well people around that site were used to hearing gunshots.also after being shot in the stomach first. Tate would not be reaching for any pistol and if he had then the headshot through the glass would have been fired.Tate may have had a weapon because of being shot by nipper. but he would be taking a big risk he would immediately be recalled to prison.also i dont think tates gang had any guns on them that evening.one has to remmember the only person to have been told where and what the gang was doing that evening was rolfes girlfriend.and she clearly says it was to look at a landing site .not rob a plane .hence they may not have been armed .police were pro active in disturbing the activities of criminals just after betts death.i dont think they would be driving around with guns
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 07, 2017, 06:25:58 PM
David some questions for you:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8987.msg427042.html#msg427042

Did you find the above WS on a facebook page?

I've only read it quickly but the end doesn't make much sense?!  DJ was apparently to be ready for the meal at Romford by 1900 hours.  The drive from Grays to Romford is about 30 mins (I know the area well as my bezzie lives in Brentwood).  The restaurant was booked for 2000 hours.  CR wanted DJ to have something new to wear so took her to Lakeside at 1745 hours.  This is about a 5 min drive from the home of CR/DJ in Chafford Hundred.  If the night out was such a new outfit was required I'm assuming DJ would want to scrub up, do her hair and make-up.  Was CR going to pick up DJ from Lakeside complete with new outfit which she would change into at Lakeside or was she going to nip home to change having scrubbed up and done her hair/make-up earlier?  I can't see any woman, let alone one from Essex, buying an outfit, scrubbing up, hair, make-up in 1 1/4 hour less a bit of travel time from home to Lakeside.

The journey time from Lakeside to Rettendon is 30mins.  So if CR was due to pick up DJ at 1900 hours he had virtually no time to do anything at Rettendon.  Bearing in mind he had to also pick up Tucker (as planned) and it seems Tate too.   

CR/DJ had a young daughter no talk of babysitter. 

CR dropped DJ at Lakeside.  Not clear what time he was picking her up but assuming he was due to pick her up when he didn't arrive I assume she was making numerous calls to CR and his associates to discover his whereabouts?  How did she eventually get home?

CR's car was recorded on CCTV around Lakeside at 1800 hours.

Steele was considered intelligent.  An engineer by trade/profession.  He piloted planes and drove boats across the channel so someone competent in navigation/signals etc.  Was he likely to incriminate himself by allowing Whomes to use a mobile which could be traced to the pair?  He would surely know how mobiles worked? 

You say if Whomes was in the pub why wasn't he seen?  Was he actually inside the pub or in the pub's car park?

Was the car Nicholls was driving picked up on CCTV in the vicinity? 

It had been snowing with the ground wet.  I understand footprints found at the scene were compatible with a size 7.  Whomes was a size 11 (I think but certainly much larger than 7).  I don't know Steele's size. 

The farmer and his builder friend said the windows were clear but the detectives said they were misted up or vice-versa I can't recall now.  Misting inside cars is caused by condensation ie warm air colliding with cold surfaces.  I guess it would take a while until the bodies cooled despite the cold outside temp.  Assuming they died around 1900 hours and it seems they were found around 0800 hours the bodies would be cold but don't know how long any condensation would take to clear?

The farmer and builder said they were mindful of not touching the vehicle as they owned guns and could be in the frame but said they tapped the window.

The farm was over 300 acres so I assume a light aircraft could land and take-off without alerting the farmer?

The planned meal was for 6: CR/DJ, Tate, Tucker and their girlfriends.  When they didn't turn up the girlfriends must have been calling mobiles which if connected with voicemails would show their approx location from towers? 

The phone evidence seems to be on Whomes making a call what about Nicholls position when he received?

It was potentially a way for someone to take out all 5: 3 murdered and incriminate 2 resulting in life sentences.     
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 07, 2017, 06:54:31 PM
David just checked the routes:

Lakeside to Tucker's (Fobbing) = 25 mins

Fobbing to Rettendon = 22 mins

Rettendon to Lakeside = 33 mins

I haven't factored in picking up Tate.

Total 80 mins (1 hour, 20 mins)  DJ said CR dropped her off at Lakeside at 1745 hours and they were due to depart for Romford at 1900 hours.  CR's Range Rover was picked up on CCTV at Lakeside at 1800 hours.  The times don't stack up. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 07, 2017, 10:25:37 PM
David as we know Tate and Tucker were huge units.  I don't know CR's build.  The body takes a while to cool post death meanwhile 3 guys, at least 2 huge, in the Range Rover misting up the windows.  The weather conditions at the time were such I think the mist/condensation would turn to ice so how come the windows were supposedly clear?  The farmer and his builder friend said they could see in clearly?  The farmer said he was surprised how little blood had spilled given his knowledge of shotguns.  How would he be in a position to see clearly if the windows were iced up inside and if they weren't iced up why not? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 08, 2017, 01:34:03 PM
David are you coming out to play with Holly?  8(*( (&^&

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Points 46 and 47:

Nor is this all, for a cell site can only accept and process so many calls at one time. Each cell site has only so many available channels; if all the channels on the cell site are being used by other callers, then the computers will automatically switch the call to another cell site; thus whether a call is routed to one cell site or another will be affected by the volume of telephone traffic at that particular time. Volume of telephone traffic is peculiarly variable and unpredictable, but is often at its heaviest during the evening rush hour.  ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S SNOW AND 20 MILE TRAFFIC JAMS.   *%87

There are many other factors which can have some effect, for example, atmospheric conditions, ionization, ice crystals in the air, falling rain or lack of summer foliage but these are not significant factors in this case and do not warrant further attention.
  REALLY  *%87

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

The traffic and weather were manic on 6th Dec 1995 due to snow.  The cells cover 35 miles.  Imagine the phone traffic due to road traffic in the area of Rettendon which is some 26 miles from Dartford crossing. 

My only interest in the case is getting info out of Steele re the black market potential for WHF growing opium poppies   ?>)()<

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Caroline on December 11, 2017, 10:50:08 AM
David are you coming out to play with Holly?  8(*( (&^&

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Points 46 and 47:

Nor is this all, for a cell site can only accept and process so many calls at one time. Each cell site has only so many available channels; if all the channels on the cell site are being used by other callers, then the computers will automatically switch the call to another cell site; thus whether a call is routed to one cell site or another will be affected by the volume of telephone traffic at that particular time. Volume of telephone traffic is peculiarly variable and unpredictable, but is often at its heaviest during the evening rush hour.  ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S SNOW AND 20 MILE TRAFFIC JAMS.   *%87

There are many other factors which can have some effect, for example, atmospheric conditions, ionization, ice crystals in the air, falling rain or lack of summer foliage but these are not significant factors in this case and do not warrant further attention.
  REALLY  *%87

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

The traffic and weather were manic on 6th Dec 1995 due to snow.  The cells cover 35 miles.  Imagine the phone traffic due to road traffic in the area of Rettendon which is some 26 miles from Dartford crossing. 

My only interest in the case is getting info out of Steele re the black market potential for WHF growing opium poppies   ?>)()<

Huh?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 11, 2017, 12:25:06 PM
Huh?

Steele was supposedly the brains behind importing drugs from Holland to Essex.  I think someone like him would be well placed to advise on the potential of a farm in Essex growing opium poppies for the black market.  The following vid about the crime family Blundell show how a farm was purchased and then used as a manufacturing plant for amphetamines.  It also touches on the location in terms of landing light aircraft, access to Channel, gateway to Europe.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3uj5vZZCphw

Just in my local Costa and 2 cops walked in on a break I assume.  Took the opportunity of putting my theory to them about the opium poppies and they thought it was a possibility 30 years ago but not today as people are too nosey.       
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 11, 2017, 12:33:18 PM
David are you coming out to play with Holly?  8(*( (&^&

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Points 46 and 47:

Nor is this all, for a cell site can only accept and process so many calls at one time. Each cell site has only so many available channels; if all the channels on the cell site are being used by other callers, then the computers will automatically switch the call to another cell site; thus whether a call is routed to one cell site or another will be affected by the volume of telephone traffic at that particular time. Volume of telephone traffic is peculiarly variable and unpredictable, but is often at its heaviest during the evening rush hour.  ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S SNOW AND 20 MILE TRAFFIC JAMS.   *%87

There are many other factors which can have some effect, for example, atmospheric conditions, ionization, ice crystals in the air, falling rain or lack of summer foliage but these are not significant factors in this case and do not warrant further attention.
  REALLY  *%87

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

The traffic and weather were manic on 6th Dec 1995 due to snow.  The cells cover 35 miles.  Imagine the phone traffic due to road traffic in the area of Rettendon which is some 26 miles from Dartford crossing. 

My only interest in the case is getting info out of Steele re the black market potential for WHF growing opium poppies   ?>)()<

David I'm struggling to understand why you see Nicholls testimony as reliable but not JM's?

There's nothing in Nicholls testimony that wasn't known to others including the police. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 11, 2017, 12:47:46 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dOm4waNyvVA

Det Supt Ivan Dibley seems to think Rolfe, Tate and Tucker (Essex Boy 3 (EB3)) knew and trusted their killer on the basis they were found unarmed.  How can he rule out that the killer(s) didn't search EB3 and/or vehicle and remove firearms(s) and take with them?  He also refers to the killer(s) as male.  How can he rule out a female? 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 13, 2017, 07:27:56 PM
It doesn't appear the friends/families/supporters of Steele and Whomes have set up any Internet sites to campaign etc.  As such I've been unable to find much by way of reliable info eg pathology reports, wit stats etc.

Assuming this Guardian article is accurate by way of weather I find it odd the farmer and his friend were able to get a clear view inside Rolfe's Range Rover.  The farmer, Peter Theobald (PT) supposedly said he was surprised how little blood was present based on his knowledge of shotguns.  The prosecution claim the shootings took place on 6th Dec at approx 7pm.  PT and his builder friend Ken Jiggins (KJ) found the victims on 7th Dec at approx 8am.  KJ did not go to work due to the weather conditions.  PT states he had to remove ice from the windscreen of his Land Rover.  If the Guardian article is correct with snow falling from 4pm on 6th Dec until early hours on 7th Dec surely the windows of Rolfe's Range Rover would be obscured by ice/snow not only outside but also inside from the warmth of the bodies creating condensation internally turning to ice as the bodies cooled.  Where the Guardian article states "Its windows, despite the ice, were clear" I assume this means despite the ice generally, rather than despite any ice on the windows of Rolfe's Range Rover?  Maybe the victims were held hostage somewhere and forced to drive to Rettendon at gunpoint where they were shot in the early hours? 

This might account for the fact they were found unarmed ie they were relieved of them?

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/1996/mar/07/fromthearchive
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 13, 2017, 09:33:50 PM
According to Rolfe's girlfriend they were all due for a meal in Romford at 8pm.  Rolfe told his girlfriend she needed to be ready by 7pm.  Tate took a call on his mobile just before 7pm which lasted 4 minutes.  If he was at Rettendon when he took this call it would mean they were all running late but afaik none of them rang to say they were running late.  Various images of Tate and Tucker socialising show them well turned out in smart casual clothes.  Soc images of the pair on the mortuary table show them wearing jeans, tshirts, bomber jackets and very scruffy CAT boots.  This attire seems at odds with the pair going out with girlfriends to a restaurant.  If they intended to wash and/or change this would just add to their delay.  Maybe they had such a sense of entitlement they just expected others to hang around waiting for them ie girlfriends and restaurant.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: starryian on November 27, 2018, 11:37:08 AM
I believe that the police have the right men. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence against both Steele and Whomes. The fact that their mobile phone records place them at or near the scene (a small village of Rettendon in Essex) The two were picked up on two different transmitters, meaning Whomes must have been using his mobile phone in an area overlapped by them – and Workhouse Lane (The scene of the murders) was in the centre of it. Further,supergrass and alleged driver of the two killers, Darren Nicholls told police that suspect Mickey Steele had told him that one of the murdered men - Pat Tate - received a mobile phone call from his girlfriend in the Range Rover moments before he was killed (Phone records later verified this call)
Moreover, the two had the ultimate motive to murder the three men - self preservation. Witnesses have stated that Pat Tate had expressed his intention of killing Jack Whomes and Mickey Steele over a drug deal that went bad very shortly before he was murdered.
For my money they are guilty.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on December 26, 2018, 11:16:03 AM
I believe that the police have the right men. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence against both Steele and Whomes. The fact that their mobile phone records place them at or near the scene (a small village of Rettendon in Essex) The two were picked up on two different transmitters, meaning Whomes must have been using his mobile phone in an area overlapped by them – and Workhouse Lane (The scene of the murders) was in the centre of it. Further,supergrass and alleged driver of the two killers, Darren Nicholls told police that suspect Mickey Steele had told him that one of the murdered men - Pat Tate - received a mobile phone call from his girlfriend in the Range Rover moments before he was killed (Phone records later verified this call)
Moreover, the two had the ultimate motive to murder the three men - self preservation. Witnesses have stated that Pat Tate had expressed his intention of killing Jack Whomes and Mickey Steele over a drug deal that went bad very shortly before he was murdered.
For my money they are guilty.

Hmmm a lot of circumstantial? 

Phone masts can only cope with a certain amount of phone traffic.  Once it hits max users are automatically redirected to other nearby masts.  In this case the adjacent area is always busy being near to the Dartford crossing but more importantly on the day/time in question the weather conditions were particularly bad with heavy snow causing the inevitable road traffic chaos which in turn no doubt put additional pressure on phone masts with mobile phone users making calls re running late etc.  Weather conditions also interfere with mobile signals/masts etc.

We would need to see all the phone records to draw any conclusions.  We don't know DN told the police anything.  We only know what we've been told.   The police may have fed this info to their supergrass or he may have learned some other way.  These people and their girlfriends all appear to have been part of a circle. 

I have no idea whether or not they are guilty.  The lot of them were/are horrible people imo but that's neither her nor there in deciding whether or not Steele/Whomes committed the crimes they were convicted of. 

Whomes will soon be eligible for parole and it also appears the case is under review by CCRC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-44237411

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/fresh-appeal-hope-for-pair-convicted-of-essex-boys-gangland-murders-1-5503916

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2019, 12:12:57 PM
I've been reading up a bit more on this case and was under the mistaken belief that Steele owed Tate his cash contribution for the poor quality batch of cannabis and therefore a motive existed for the murders.  But I now know that the Dutch supplier, John Stone, reimbursed Steele in full and the motley crew, including Tate, travelled to Holland to assist bringing the cash back to UK.

I don't see what the motive was for Steele/Whomes to murder Rolfe/Tate/Tucker?

Steele was the only one capable of driving boats across the channel and flying planes ie importing drugs so why would Tate/Tucker want to murder Steele/Whomes?  Tate/Tucker had established a distribution network via the clubs so why would Steele/Whomes want to murder their distributors?

I don't buy into all this gangsta talk about Steele/Whomes murdering Tate/Tucker because they supposedly boasted they were going to murder Steele/Whomes.  I think they all had previous convictions but murder/risk/length of sentence is a whole different ball game especially when it doesn't appear any real threat to life/face/finances was at stake?

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2019, 12:34:57 PM
In answer to the thread title...in my opinion, definitely not.

There was a mountain of circumstantial evidence including detailed telephone logs, which were extremely incriminating. 

Incidentally, there was a third man in the Range Rover, Craig Rolfe, who was also killed.

What exactly did the mountain of circumstantial evidence exist of? 

What detailed telephone logs are you referring to?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2019, 12:36:03 PM
Definitely not imo too. Due to the connection with another man which is not widely known,I am certainly confident the right men were convicted.

Are you able to identify the other man you refer to?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2019, 01:21:42 PM
hi at 6pm on the evening of the murders rolfe gave his girlfreind 60 pounds to buy a dress to wear later that evening as he dropped her off he told her he and the boys were going to meet mickey steel to look at a landing site for a light plane to drop drugs.its in her police statement

The murders involved a large scale police operation (including CENTURY) surely the police would interview extensively those close to the murdered trio ie Rolfe's partner, Donna Jaggers.  If Rolfe's partner was aware he was going to meet Steele then surely this info would have been imparted to police at an early stage and Steele taken in for questioning?  Afaik Steele/Whomes were not even interviewed until months later?

According to Donna Jaggers WS dated around March 96 Rolfe gave her some money to purchase something new to wear for the night out in Romford with Tate/Tucker and their respective girlfriends. Rolfe told her to be ready to go out by 7.00pm and he would collect her.  Collect her from where Lakeside or their home in Chafford Hundred which is a short distance from Lakeside.  This imo is very suspicious.  The logistics need explaining:

- Travel time to and from these places: Rolfe/Lakeside toTucker/Fobbing to Tate/Basildon to Rettendon for recce - collecting girlfriends - final destination the table booked at restaurant in Romford at 8pm.  It can't be done in 2 hours ie Rolfe on CCTV at Lakeside at 6pm and Romford at 8pm. 

- If the evening was such it demanded new attire for Donna Jagger why would the guys turn up in scruffy old jeans, tshirts, bomber jackets and dirty Cat boots in an era where this wasn't considered fashionable attire for a night out?  Numerous photos of Tate show him socialising in smart clothes.  And if they were going to change this would just add further time which they didn't have.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2019, 03:41:51 PM
Rolfe's Range Rover on CCTV @ Lakeside @ 6.00 pm

Lakeside to Fobbing (Tucker) 19 mins

Fobbing to Tate (Basildon) 9 mins

Basildon to Rettendon 15 mins 

43 mins total. 

Lakeside/Chafford Hundred to Romford 28/26 mins

According to Donna Jagger's WS Rolfe dropped her off at Lakeside and told her to be ready for the restaurant in Romford by 7 pm.  It is not clear where DJ was to be collected from: her home in Chafford Hundred or Lakeside.  The distance between the two via car is some 2 mins so she was capable of walking home.  Either way if it was all prearranged Rolfe would know all these journeys/collections/drops off and time spent at Rettendon would exceed 1 hour so why tell DJ to be ready by 7pm when he wouldn't be home until 7.26pm at the absolute earliest and this does not allow for any time spent at Rettendon.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 03, 2019, 06:47:25 PM
The murders involved a large scale police operation (including CENTURY) surely the police would interview extensively those close to the murdered trio ie Rolfe's partner, Donna Jaggers.  If Rolfe's partner was aware he was going to meet Steele then surely this info would have been imparted to police at an early stage and Steele taken in for questioning?  Afaik Steele/Whomes were not even interviewed until months later?

According to Donna Jaggers WS dated around March 96 Rolfe gave her some money to purchase something new to wear for the night out in Romford with Tate/Tucker and their respective girlfriends. Rolfe told her to be ready to go out by 7.00pm and he would collect her.  Collect her from where Lakeside or their home in Chafford Hundred which is a short distance from Lakeside.  This imo is very suspicious.  The logistics need explaining:

- Travel time to and from these places: Rolfe/Lakeside toTucker/Fobbing to Tate/Basildon to Rettendon for recce - collecting girlfriends - final destination the table booked at restaurant in Romford at 8pm.  It can't be done in 2 hours ie Rolfe on CCTV at Lakeside at 6pm and Romford at 8pm. 

- If the evening was such it demanded new attire for Donna Jagger why would the guys turn up in scruffy old jeans, tshirts, bomber jackets and dirty Cat boots in an era where this wasn't considered fashionable attire for a night out?  Numerous photos of Tate show him socialising in smart clothes.  And if they were going to change this would just add further time which they didn't have.
This operation commenced post murders.  Steele was very quickly identified as the prime suspect.  Steele and his team were placed under surveillance.  As part of the operation, he and Tates girlfriend, Sarah Saunders, were called numerous times by undercover police pretending to be members of the IRA who had invested money with Tate. 

They knew they were dealing with a smart cookie in Steele and therefor decided to gather as much incriminating information as they could before making a move.  As a result, they were able to arrest all the main protagonists, including Tates brother, Nicholls and a couple of corrupt Policemen, in one fell swoop and pick their stories apart. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 03, 2019, 07:58:50 PM
Whomes conceded that he was in Rettendon that night at 7pm.   He reckons he was helping Nicholls with his car which had broken down. 

He failed to offer up this explanation in any of his police interviews.  It was only once they’d all seen the telephone logs, that they concocted their stories.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 03, 2019, 10:48:55 PM
Steele found himself in a very difficult situation.  Tates girlfriend, Sarah Saunders, had made a point of arranging a meeting with Steele so that she could warn him of Tates threat to kill him. 

Tate was displaying particularly unpredictable behaviour at this point.  Steele obviously took the threat seriously.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2019, 12:26:45 PM
This operation commenced post murders.  Steele was very quickly identified as the prime suspect.  Steele and his team were placed under surveillance.  As part of the operation, he and Tates girlfriend, Sarah Saunders, were called numerous times by undercover police pretending to be members of the IRA who had invested money with Tate. 

They knew they were dealing with a smart cookie in Steele and therefor decided to gather as much incriminating information as they could before making a move.  As a result, they were able to arrest all the main protagonists, including Tates brother, Nicholls and a couple of corrupt Policemen, in one fell swoop and pick their stories apart.

If Steele was very quickly identified as the prime suspect why did it take so long to arrest him?  Surely the soc and surrounding area would contain forensic evidence eg footprints, CCTV footage of the getaway car driven by Nicholls?  As it stands it appears the evidence amounts to the testimony of supergrass Nicholls and to a much lesser extent the phone evidence.

Operation CENTURY:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Century

I don't believe Sarah Saunders was Tate's girlfriend at the time of the murders?  Rolfe's girlfriend, Donna Jaggers, refers to Tate having a girlfriend called Clare.  You can read her WS as follows.  Was Sarah Saunders the mother of Tate's young child?  If so this would be a reason she would need to maintain contact.  By all accounts he was a 'loving father'.  According to tel comm providers SS made a call to Tate shortly before he was murdered. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8987.msg427042.html#msg427042

NAME: DONNA LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 013 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 140396
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the common law wife of Craig ROLFE whom had been my partner for seven years. I have been asked about Craig's association with Tony TUCKER and Pat TATE and their involvement with drug dealing, and the circumstances surround their deaths. Craig had been involved with TUCKER for approximately three or four years and was registered as a Director of TUCKER's security company running Nightclub doors.

This was in name only and I know that Craig never had any involvement in running the business. His association started as a result of TUCKER buying drugs from Craig. They then became more involved as time went on and they started doing drugs deals together. In early 000095 Craig was not being very active and was not completing many deals therefore he did not have much money.

He was being promised that a large deal was due which would provide him with plenty of money, in the mean time we were scraping to get by. I later learnt from Craig that a person called Mickey 'The Pilot' who I now know to be called Michael STEELE was a friend of Pat TATE who in turn was a friend of Tony TUCKER. STEELE I understood to be a pilot who brought drugs into the country, and I understood that he had been in prison for it.

Craig told me that STEELE was a ruthless person who really didn't think very much of other people. In early 000095 I was aware that TATE was in prison and I recall TUCKER and one other person, whose details I do not know, running around getting TATE's money together for him to finance the deal. I am fairly sure that John MCCARTHY had some of TATE's money.

Craig told me that this was happening and stated that STEELE was happy to continue bringing it in until they were all millionaires. I can not say when the deal took place but I can say that at that time I witnessed the change over of the drugs. Mickey STEEL drove to Longwood Stables in Dry Street, Basildon, Essex, where TUCKER had two horses. I arrived there with Craig and met Tony who was with his horses.

We waited for Mick to arrive which he did in a blue Toyota RAV4. Although I had remained in our car and I had my back to where Mickey STEELE had parked, I was able to look over my left shoulder towards the rear of his car. I saw STEELE take a large dark coloured kit bag, measuring approximately three feet in length by about twelve to fifteen inches in diameter, from the boot of his car.

By the way he was holding the bag it appeared to be very heavy. He handed it to TUCKER who put it in the boot of our car which was a Vauxhall Senator. Craig then got back into our car and drove to another location. Craig took the holdall out of the boot and took it to a "safe house' where all the drugs were stored. I went into the house with Craig who then placed the bag on the table.

He opened the bag up and I saw that it contained bars of brown cannabis resin which were all individually wrapped in a clear film. I was present when he checked that it was good quality by burning and smelling a sample and then counting the bars. I am unable to say how many bars there were. I have only met Mickey STEELE on a couple of occasions and that was only in passing.

I have not actually spoken to STEELE. On each occasion when I have seen him he has always made me very aware that he does not want me to look at him. The last deal which STEELE carried out for them was approximately two weeks after TATE was released from prison which was at the end of 001095. Craig told me that Mickey STEELE was arranging to bring in sixty thousand pounds worth of cannabis from abroad.

Craig put in seven thousand pounds, TUCKER put in twenty thousand pounds and TATE and a fourth person called Barry DOORMAN were putting in the remainder of the money. A couple of days before the cannabis was collected I went with Craig to TUCKER's home address in Fobbing, Essex, to hand him the seven thousand pounds which was in a Tesco's carrier bag. The money was handed to TUCKER who was in turn going to hand it to STEELE.

We were only at the house for about five minutes and as Craig and I were leaving and walking down the driveway towards our car, I saw Mickey STEELE walking up the driveway towards the house. He passed by us and nodded to Craig. He did not speak or acknowledge myself. STEELE had come from a white car which I believe he had been driving. I can not say what the car was but it was clean and had the appearance of an average family saloon.

There was a second male in the car who had short dark hair and appeared to be a little bit younger than STEELE. He appeared clean shaven but I did not take any further notice. We got into our vehicle which I believe was a Vauxhall Frontera which had been loaned to TATE by Barry DOORMAN, and left. A couple of days later Craig told me that STEELE had been arrested by Customs Officers whilst he was taking his boat from the water.

This was following him dropping the cannabis off at a safe point on the coastline about three miles away. That same day TATE was arrested during the early afternoon having crashed TUCKER's Porsche car in Southend. I was at work and would have finished at 1500 hours that day. Craig picked me up from work and told me what had happened to STEELE. About 1600 hours TUCKER phoned Craig on his mobile phone and told him about his car and what TATE had done to it.

About 1800 hours that day Craig and I drove to Southend Police Station to collect TATE. Once in the vehicle I became aware that TATE already knew about STEELE being arrested. He then used Craig's mobile phone to ring Jackie STEELE. He asked her if everything was 'safe'. I took it that it was as a result of TATE's manner and subsequently what he said to Craig. He said that it was all 'safe', I took this to mean that the drugs had not been found.

On this occasion I did hot know where the meeting between STEELE and the others was to take place but after a couple of days Craig brought his share of the cannabis round to our house in Chafford Hundred. Because the cannabis had already been sold on, the same day Craig and I took it up to the Golders Green area of North London where Craig handed it onto a coloured male called Gary.

No money was exchanged because the cannabis was what's known as 'laid on' Gary for him to sell and then pay Craig. The agreed amount per kilo worked out to be approximately ten thousand pounds for the lot. Already the others had placed their own share with other dealers but very quickly they started receiving phone calls telling them that the cannabis was very poor quality.

I learnt through Craig that TATE and TUCKER were very agitated because STEELE during this time was trying to push the price that he wanted up. In affect this was eating into their personal profit from the deal. They contacted STEELE and told him that they wanted their money back because the cannabis was rubbish. STEELE didn't want to take it back. TATE and TUCKER then started putting real pressure on STEELE to recover the money.

By pressure I mean through intimidation. I can not say exactly what they did, because I do not know, but I recall hearing conversations they had with STEELE on the phone where they were renting and raving at one another and pacing up and down. I understand that STEELE finally agreed to return the cannabis and get their money back for them. TATE in a fit of temper about the whole affair smashed each slab before it was returned.

STEELE had told them that a parcel the same size had been picked up by mistake and that's how the problem had come about. I am not certain but I think that on this occasion STEELE had to collect the cannabis from TUCKER's home address in order to return it. STEELE arranged to hand the money back to them on the continent. He was going to return the goods to his suppliers and then take the money to a pre-arranged location where he was to meet Craig, TUCKER and TATE.

The day they were going to meet coincided with Tony TUCKER's birthday which was the 171100. His girlfriend, Anna, had pre-booked a surprise night in a London hotel prior the trip to collect the money being made. Therefore Tony was not going to go. They wanted a group of people to go over in order that the money could be divided up to bring it back into this country.

Craig asked me to go but I refused because I was not happy about getting involved and didn't want to go. The eventual party consisted of Barry DOORMAN and his wife who went in their own car. Pat TATE and Craig with three girls. Donna GARWOOD, Liz FLETCHER and Gaynor HAYZER. They travelled in the Range Rover and left via Harwich. Craig did tell me where they went to but I can not remember the location or where they stayed.

I know that they stayed overnight in a hotel and were met by Mickey STEELE. I was told that he met TATE and they went into a separate room. They returned the next day with the money. Whilst all this was going on I was told that STEELE was promising TATE that he had a 'big job' lined up for him. Craig told me that STEELE had approached TATE and asked him to nick someone elses gear from them.

I understood that STEELE had been asked by a London based drugs firm to import 30 kilos of Charlie (Cocaine) and I believe that he was going to bring it in by plane from Holland. He had told Pat TATE that he was going to be given fifty thousand pounds as an up front payment to take to Holland and he was going to bring the Charlie back in company with a member of the London firm.

The idea was that Pat TATE and Tony TUCKER would rob the firm of the Charlie when it arrived over here. STEELE had stated that he wanted to share it between them and had told the firm that he was going to land near to Clacton. Craig told me that STEELE was planning to actually land in South Essex but I never knew exactly where this was likely to be. Craig, Tony and Pat had previously obtained a machine gun from a man called Mad Mick BOWMAN and the details of this are subject of a previous statement.

TATE and TUCKER were going to use the gun on the man from the firm in order to take the Charlie. I knew that they had made sure the gun worked but I did not know how far they were planning to go when they robbed the firm. STEELE was going to land the plane and TATE and TUCKER were then going to take the complete load. It was going to be split, eventually, ten kilos each, and was going to be taken to John MCCARTHY.

Craig told me that MCCARTHY was going to pay them nearly one million pounds for the load which was for TATE or TUCKER to divide. Not long after Craig had told me about this he told me that TATE and TUCKER had decided that he was going to drive the load away once it had been taken and go to MCCARTHY'S with it. They had told Craig that they intended to rip STEELE off by cutting 3 kilos of the Cocaine into ten kilos of impure.

This would have resulted in TATE and TUCKER having twenty seven kilos between them. The remaining three kilos was going to be taken to Mick BOWMAN and he was going to cut it for them. I do not know what the arrangements were to get the three kilos to BOWMAN or to get the ten kilos of impure back to STEELE. By this time I was getting very worried by Craig's involvement and told him that I didn't want him have any part in it.

He told me that STEELE didn't know that he was going to be driving and he convinced me that he wasn't as heavily involved as the other two in what was going to happen. He also talked about the money which was likely to be coming their way and how that would enable us to go ahead with whatever plans we wanted. I realised that I wasn't going to be able to talk him out of it and, albeit I really didn't want him to go through with it, I gave up in the end.

I believed that by this he was in too deep. Craig told me that the money had been paid to Mickey STEELE who had taken it to Holland. The weather had changed and there was now snow on the ground. Craig told me this was causing them delay and they were waiting for it to clear. On the day of the murder I was working as normal and was due to finish at 1500 hours. That evening Tony TUCKER and his girlfriend Anna, Craig and I and Pat TATE and a girlfriend named Clare, were all going to the Global Net Cafe restaurant in Romford.

We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Graig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft. Craig mentioned to me that they had been to or were going to, I can't remember which, to the T.G.I. Fridays restaurant at Lakeside. I later found out that this had been TATE, TUCKER, and Craig and a person railed Peter CUTHBERT.

I do not know why they met or what was discussed. I left work at 1500 hours that day and went home. The meal at Romford was booked for 2000 hours. I was busy wrapping Christmas presents when Craig returned home with our daughter Georgie. We were at home together for about an hour and a half. Craig told me that I was to be ready for 1900 hours to go out. He was going with the others to look at the air strip and then would come to collect me.

Craig wanted me to have something new to wear for the evening and took me to the Lakeside shopping centre at 1745 hours. He was driving the Range Rover and left me to go and pick Tony TUCKER up. Craig told me that he was going because he didn't want Tony to be in a position to say that he hadn't had any part in the arranging. I also understood that Craig was going to collect Tony TUCKER from his home and they were going to meet TATE and STEELE later. I did not have contact from Craig, TATE or TUCKER after this point.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED STATEMENT
TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 140396
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2019, 03:51:40 PM
Hmmm a lot of circumstantial? 

Phone masts can only cope with a certain amount of phone traffic.  Once it hits max users are automatically redirected to other nearby masts.  In this case the adjacent area is always busy being near to the Dartford crossing but more importantly on the day/time in question the weather conditions were particularly bad with heavy snow causing the inevitable road traffic chaos which in turn no doubt put additional pressure on phone masts with mobile phone users making calls re running late etc.  Weather conditions also interfere with mobile signals/masts etc.

We would need to see all the phone records to draw any conclusions.  We don't know DN told the police anything.  We only know what we've been told.   The police may have fed this info to their supergrass or he may have learned some other way.  These people and their girlfriends all appear to have been part of a circle. 

I have no idea whether or not they are guilty.  The lot of them were/are horrible people imo but that's neither her nor there in deciding whether or not Steele/Whomes committed the crimes they were convicted of. 

Whomes will soon be eligible for parole and it also appears the case is under review by CCRC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-44237411

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/fresh-appeal-hope-for-pair-convicted-of-essex-boys-gangland-murders-1-5503916

How many people had mobile phones in 1995?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2019, 05:08:39 PM
Whomes conceded that he was in Rettendon that night at 7pm.   He reckons he was helping Nicholls with his car which had broken down. 

He failed to offer up this explanation in any of his police interviews.  It was only once they’d all seen the telephone logs, that they concocted their stories.

I believe Whomes conceded he was in the vicinity of Rettendon on the day/time in question.  This may or may not have been in relation to their dealings with the murdered trio but even it was in relation to the murdered trio does it necessarily mean Whomes was in any way responsible for the murders? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2019, 05:17:48 PM
Steele found himself in a very difficult situation.  Tates girlfriend, Sarah Saunders, had made a point of arranging a meeting with Steele so that she could warn him of Tates threat to kill him. 

Tate was displaying particularly unpredictable behaviour at this point.  Steele obviously took the threat seriously.

As I said I don't believe SS was Tate's girlfriend at the time of the murders.  What evidence exists showing Tate had threatened to murder Steele and if this was the case what was Tate's motive?  Why would Whomes dirty his hands for Steele to the extent he would get involved with murder knowing if he was caught he was looking at a very long prison sentence? 

It seems Tait was a complete liability but Tucker was at one time a soldier with legitimate business interests at the time; he may have acted as somewhat of a restraining influence on his childhood friend.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2019, 05:19:12 PM
How many people had mobile phones in 1995?

Which geographic location?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2019, 07:53:03 PM
Which geographic location?

From 1996 - 1997 only 16% of households had mobile phones in the whole of the UK

https://www.statista.com/statistics/289167/mobile-phone-penetration-in-the-uk/

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Caroline on January 04, 2019, 07:55:48 PM
I believe Whomes conceded he was in the vicinity of Rettendon on the day/time in question.  This may or may not have been in relation to their dealings with the murdered trio but even it was in relation to the murdered trio does it necessarily mean Whomes was in any way responsible for the murders?

If it was in relation to the victims, what reason would he have for not stating so at the time?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
From 1996 - 1997 only 16% of households had mobile phones in the whole of the UK

https://www.statista.com/statistics/289167/mobile-phone-penetration-in-the-uk/

What's the point you're making?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2019, 08:34:40 PM
If it was in relation to the victims, what reason would he have for not stating so at the time?

They were all criminals and meets usually involved committing crime.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2019, 12:39:15 AM
They were all criminals and meets usually involved committing crime.

Big difference when you're accused of murdering criminal colleagues.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Caroline on January 05, 2019, 12:46:36 AM
What's the point you're making?

The point is that in 1995, mobile phones were no where near as mainstream as they are now so phone mast traffic wouldn't be an issue.  However, as the issue was cleared up by Silka the point is now moot.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 01:33:40 AM
As I said I don't believe SS was Tate's girlfriend at the time of the murders.  What evidence exists showing Tate had threatened to murder Steele and if this was the case what was Tate's motive?  Why would Whomes dirty his hands for Steele to the extent he would get involved with murder knowing if he was caught he was looking at a very long prison sentence? 

It seems Tait was a complete liability but Tucker was at one time a soldier with legitimate business interests at the time; he may have acted as somewhat of a restraining influence on his childhood friend.
Tate and Saunders had a volatile, "on off" relationship. 

Records show that Saunders called Tate just a few minutes before the assumed time of death.  They spoke for around 3-4 minutes.  At trial, much was made of this call.  Steele, who was sitting next to Tate in the Range Rover whilst he spoke with Saunders, went on to tell Nicholls about the conversation.  Nicholls was then able to cite this incident in one of his Police interviews, long before he was confronted with the call logs. 

According to Saunders, Tate had threatened "to send Mickey up north".  She told Steele this at a meeting in Chelmsford.

Steele and Whomes had invested a great deal in their smuggling operation.  Tate and Tucker posed a real threat to this.  They were out of control. 


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 10:00:31 AM
Big difference when you're accused of murdering criminal colleagues.

We don't know at what stage they were asked about the murders.  They, Nicholls, Steele, Whomes and others were also under investigation for importing large quantities of drugs across the channel which carry the potential for similar penalties as murder:

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 10:23:09 AM
The point is that in 1995, mobile phones were no where near as mainstream as they are now so phone mast traffic wouldn't be an issue.  However, as the issue was cleared up by Silka the point is now moot.

How many phone masts do you think existed in 1995?  I believe the number of masts grew in response to increase demand for mobile telephony.  In any event what you have is a fixed item ie phone mast and a mobile item ie mobile phone.  A mast can only cope with a certain amount of traffic once it reaches max users are automatically redirected to other masts.  In this case Whomes mobile records showed he made calls to Nicholls as follows:

Each mobile telephone making or receiving a call does so by way of a radio signal, which is routed through one of many local transmitters, commonly called 'cell sites', which provide a general coverage throughout the country. Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed. In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules. We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation. Both calls were made from Whomes' mobile to Nicholls' mobile on the evening of 6th Dec; both calls were made at 18.59. The first call was made at 18.59.21, the outgoing call was routed through the Ingatestone cell site, this call lasted one second. The second call was at 18.59.32, the outgoing call was routed through the Hockley 3 cell site, this call lasted 4 seconds.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CWorkhouse%20Ln,%20Chelmsford%20CM3,%20UK%7C%7C0.594598%7C51.659120%7CtoNode=0%7CHockley,%20UK%7C%7C0.651664%7C51.607887
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 10:24:02 AM
I believe Whomes conceded he was in the vicinity of Rettendon on the day/time in question.  This may or may not have been in relation to their dealings with the murdered trio but even it was in relation to the murdered trio does it necessarily mean Whomes was in any way responsible for the murders?
I do take your point Holly. 

Without Nicholls testimony you are left with a considerable amount of circumstantial evidence, but enough to convict?  I don't think so.

Even having borne in mind Nicholls undoubted history of dishonesty, I still find his account of the importations and murders utterly convincing.  He was able to go into minute detail with his account matching up with call logs, others statements, etc.  Some have inevitably suggested that Nicholls was fed this information by the police.  Even if you believe that, I, feel sure that Nicholls would not have been able to stand up to several days of cross examination. 

It was interesting that the jury believed his account of the murders and importations, whilst disbelieving his story about supplying a weapon to Steele. 

Like many other cases, there is a plethora of mis information to be found about this case.  However, available also are an enormous amount of transcripts taken from dozens of police interviews, statements and the trial itself.  Reading through these will give you your best hope of uncovering the truth. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 10:35:17 AM
We don't know at what stage they were asked about the murders.  They, Nicholls, Steele, Whomes and others were also under investigation for importing large quantities of drugs across the channel which carry the potential for similar penalties as murder:

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
They were arrested on 13/5/96 in relation to the drug importations.  Steele was further arrested for the murders the following day at 22.45 towards the end of his second interview.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 10:50:34 AM
We don't know at what stage they were asked about the murders.  They, Nicholls, Steele, Whomes and others were also under investigation for importing large quantities of drugs across the channel which carry the potential for similar penalties as murder:

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
Steele had been convicted in 1985 for smuggling.  He was handed a 9 year sentence. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 11:07:18 AM
Tate and Saunders had a volatile, "on off" relationship. 

Records show that Saunders called Tate just a few minutes before the assumed time of death.  They spoke for around 3-4 minutes.  At trial, much was made of this call.  Steele, who was sitting next to Tate in the Range Rover whilst he spoke with Saunders, went on to tell Nicholls about the conversation.  Nicholls was then able to cite this incident in one of his Police interviews, long before he was confronted with the call logs. 

According to Saunders, Tate had threatened "to send Mickey up north".  She told Steele this at a meeting in Chelmsford.

Steele and Whomes had invested a great deal in their smuggling operation.  Tate and Tucker posed a real threat to this.  They were out of control.

According to one documentary SS was living in a women's refuge.

We would really need to see mobile records over a long period to see who called who, when, where and the duration to see what was typical and what wasn't.   As I said Tate had a young child.  If SS is the mother then that might well be a reason they needed to communicate ie say goodnight to daddy!  In any event I don't really understand the importance attached to this call other than potentially it provided the police something to feed to Nicholls.  Which mast/cell site was the call routed through?

What evidence exists showing Steele was sitting next to Tate in the Range Rover?  According to all concerned there's no forensic evidence linking Steele and Whomes to the murders.  Helena Kennedy QC who acted for the pair at their last appeal thought it strange at 50 mins in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOggndSvew

As I understand it DNA evidence wouldn't necessarily be found at soc even if the perps were inside the Range Rover but I don't understand the lack of footprints and don't buy into the fact that the snow melted them all away.

What evidence exists showing Tate had made threats about Steele and/or SS met with Steele?  In any event it seems to me Tate was a loud-mouthed, half-witted thug who went about threatening anyone and everyone especially when he was high on a cocktail of drugs.

What evidence exists showing Nicholls was aware of the call and volunteered this info to police rather than the police provided him with this info in order to bolster a case against Steele and Whomes?

As I said in an earlier post it seemed to me for the operation to work these people needed each other.  Steele had the brains and was capable of driving boats and flying planes.  Tate and Tucker had the muscle, controlled the clubs and the distribution network.

Numerous individuals/organisations wanted to take out Tate and Tucker.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 11:24:01 AM
I do take your point Holly. 

Without Nicholls testimony you are left with a considerable amount of circumstantial evidence, but enough to convict?  I don't think so.

Even having borne in mind Nicholls undoubted history of dishonesty, I still find his account of the importations and murders utterly convincing.  He was able to go into minute detail with his account matching up with call logs, others statements, etc.  Some have inevitably suggested that Nicholls was fed this information by the police.  Even if you believe that, I, feel sure that Nicholls would not have been able to stand up to several days of cross examination. 

It was interesting that the jury believed his account of the murders and importations, whilst disbelieving his story about supplying a weapon to Steele. 

Like many other cases, there is a plethora of mis information to be found about this case.  However, available also are an enormous amount of transcripts taken from dozens of police interviews, statements and the trial itself.  Reading through these will give you your best hope of uncovering the truth.

I think Nicolls was an electrician by profession?  I don't know many daft electricians.  And I'm reminded of the 4 13 year old schoolgirls who lied for a laugh at the trial of Stefan Kiszko.  The girls run rings around the trial judge and defence QC. 

According to the solicitor in the following, prior to Nicholls testimony he was caught with a large quantity of drugs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOggndSvew

I believe Nicholls spent a small amount of time on remand? 

Can you point me in the right direction to offical docs?   8((()*/
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 11:29:10 AM
Steele had been convicted in 1985 for smuggling.  He was handed a 9 year sentence.

So a conviction for a repeat offence was likely to significantly longer?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 11:32:41 AM
They were arrested on 13/5/96 in relation to the drug importations.  Steele was further arrested for the murders the following day at 22.45 towards the end of his second interview.

When was Nicholls arrested for possessing a large quantity of drugs in the boot of his car? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 12:11:11 PM
Did the murdered trio arrive at Workhouse Lane of their own accord or were they told to drive there under duress? 

Apparently Tate and Tucker were holding mobiles which would suggest they drove there of their own accord.  But what happens to the hands upon sustaining fatal gsw's? 

And apparently Rolfe's hands were gripping the steering wheel with his foot on the brake? 

Workhouse Lane is adjacent to farmer Peter Theobalds's farm (who found the murdered trio) and his shooting range.  I'm not suggesting he was involved just mentioning this as it might well be a place the perp(s) were familiar with if they attended the shooting range and/or the location was singled out as the sound of gunshots would not be out of the ordinary.

https://goshooting.org.uk/ads/whitehouse-farm-clay-shooting-ground/

I am sure this is just a coincidence but Leah Betts father who at the time of her death was a retired police officer running a clay pigeon shooting business was taken in for questioning and had his firearms checked:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/crime-lord-offered-kill-drug-9846203
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 12:55:15 PM
The AA route planner shows the approx locations of the following:

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CWorkhouse%20Ln,%20Chelmsford%20CM3,%20UK%7C%7C0.594598%7C51.659120%7CtoNode=0%7CHockley,%20UK%7C%7C0.651664%7C51.607887

A = The cell/mast Whomes first call to Nicholls was routed through timed at 18.59.21 lasting 1 second

B = Location of Range Rover.

C = The cell/mast Whomes second call to Nicholls was routed through timed at 15.59.32 lasting 4 seconds

I'm assuming the defence independently verified the authenticity of the phone records obtained (via the police?) from the tel comm providers? 

Tate received a call on his mobile from an address where it appears Sarah Saunders was at 18.44 lasting 4 minutes.  Which cell/mast was this call routed through?

When Nicholls received the two calls on his mobile from Whomes which cell/mast were these calls routed through.

According to the CoA doc:

Each mobile telephone making or receiving a call does so by way of a radio signal, which is routed through one of many local transmitters, commonly called 'cell sites', which provide a general coverage throughout the country. Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed.

It seems to me the emphasis is very much on attempting to pinpoint the location of Whomes without attempting to pinpoint the location of Nicholls and Tate when they received their calls or maybe I've just overlooked it?



Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 01:01:01 PM
The above link doesn't save a via option to add a third location so in order to see the cell/mast points in relation to the lapprox location of the Range Rover you will need to type in White House Farm Near Rettendon.

So AA link above shows A Whomes first call to Nicholls and B Whomes second call to Nicholls
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 01:07:27 PM
Oops sorry I'm making a bit of a pigs ear of this!

Whomes first call was from the Ingatestone cell/mast marked A and the second call was from the Hockley cell/mast marked B.

ww.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CIngatestone,%20UK%7C%7C0.389906%7C51.673794%7CtoNode=0%7CHockley,%20UK%7C%7C0.651664%7C51.607887
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2019, 01:16:18 PM
The first call was approx 11.6 miles from Range Rover and the second call approx 6.7 miles from Range Rover.  So assuming the mobile phone records are accurate it shows Whomes was in the vicinity of where the Range Rover was found. 

But this was their patch where the gang hung out:

Tate - Basildon
Tucker - Fobbing
Rolfe - Chafford Hundred
Nicholls - I've read Braintree and Grays
Steele - Great Bentley
Whomes - Brockford

All were Essex boys except Whomes/Brockford is in Suffolk close to Essex border.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 01:34:16 PM
When was Nicholls arrested for possessing a large quantity of drugs in the boot of his car?
The same day as all the others, including Steele, Whomes, Corry, Russell Tate and two serving police officers. 

The police had been gathering evidence on all concerned for months, before making their move. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 01:39:37 PM
According to one documentary SS was living in a women's refuge.

We would really need to see mobile records over a long period to see who called who, when, where and the duration to see what was typical and what wasn't.   As I said Tate had a young child.  If SS is the mother then that might well be a reason they needed to communicate ie say goodnight to daddy!  In any event I don't really understand the importance attached to this call other than potentially it provided the police something to feed to Nicholls.  Which mast/cell site was the call routed through?

What evidence exists showing Steele was sitting next to Tate in the Range Rover?  According to all concerned there's no forensic evidence linking Steele and Whomes to the murders.  Helena Kennedy QC who acted for the pair at their last appeal thought it strange at 50 mins in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOggndSvew

As I understand it DNA evidence wouldn't necessarily be found at soc even if the perps were inside the Range Rover but I don't understand the lack of footprints and don't buy into the fact that the snow melted them all away.

What evidence exists showing Tate had made threats about Steele and/or SS met with Steele?  In any event it seems to me Tate was a loud-mouthed, half-witted thug who went about threatening anyone and everyone especially when he was high on a cocktail of drugs.

What evidence exists showing Nicholls was aware of the call and volunteered this info to police rather than the police provided him with this info in order to bolster a case against Steele and Whomes?

As I said in an earlier post it seemed to me for the operation to work these people needed each other.  Steele had the brains and was capable of driving boats and flying planes.  Tate and Tucker had the muscle, controlled the clubs and the distribution network.

Numerous individuals/organisations wanted to take out Tate and Tucker.
Steele & Whomes certainly didn't need Tate and Tucker.  With a highly effective smuggling operation in place, there would have been no shortage of dealers to sell on the drugs. 

Tate and Tucker were becoming a liability by drawing much attention to themselves.  Not least because of the death of Leah Betts. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 01:44:30 PM
I think Nicolls was an electrician by profession?  I don't know many daft electricians.  And I'm reminded of the 4 13 year old schoolgirls who lied for a laugh at the trial of Stefan Kiszko.  The girls run rings around the trial judge and defence QC. 

According to the solicitor in the following, prior to Nicholls testimony he was caught with a large quantity of drugs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOggndSvew

I believe Nicholls spent a small amount of time on remand? 

Can you point me in the right direction to offical docs?   8((()*/
I work with electricians on a very regular basis.  I have definitely come across some "daft ones"!

I've not actually been able to ascertain whether Nicholls was a qualified electrician or rather, just an electricians labourer.  Having read through his statements and court testimony, I have formed the opinion that he is indeed, daft. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 02:12:28 PM
14/03/96 - Statement of DONNA LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNA LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 013 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 140396
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the common law wife of Craig ROLFE whom had been my partner for seven years. I have been asked about Craig's association with Tony TUCKER and Pat TATE and their involvement with drug dealing, and the circumstances surround their deaths. Craig had been involved with TUCKER for approximately three or four years and was registered as a Director of TUCKER's security company running Nightclub doors.

This was in name only and I know that Craig never had any involvement in running the business. His association started as a result of TUCKER buying drugs from Craig. They then became more involved as time went on and they started doing drugs deals together. In early 000095 Craig was not being very active and was not completing many deals therefore he did not have much money.

He was being promised that a large deal was due which would provide him with plenty of money, in the mean time we were scraping to get by. I later learnt from Craig that a person called Mickey 'The Pilot' who I now know to be called Michael STEELE was a friend of Pat TATE who in turn was a friend of Tony TUCKER. STEELE I understood to be a pilot who brought drugs into the country, and I understood that he had been in prison for it.

Craig told me that STEELE was a ruthless person who really didn't think very much of other people. In early 000095 I was aware that TATE was in prison and I recall TUCKER and one other person, whose details I do not know, running around getting TATE's money together for him to finance the deal. I am fairly sure that John MCCARTHY had some of TATE's money.

Craig told me that this was happening and stated that STEELE was happy to continue bringing it in until they were all millionaires. I can not say when the deal took place but I can say that at that time I witnessed the change over of the drugs. Mickey STEEL drove to Longwood Stables in Dry Street, Basildon, Essex, where TUCKER had two horses. I arrived there with Craig and met Tony who was with his horses.

We waited for Mick to arrive which he did in a blue Toyota RAV4. Although I had remained in our car and I had my back to where Mickey STEELE had parked, I was able to look over my left shoulder towards the rear of his car. I saw STEELE take a large dark coloured kit bag, measuring approximately three feet in length by about twelve to fifteen inches in diameter, from the boot of his car.

By the way he was holding the bag it appeared to be very heavy. He handed it to TUCKER who put it in the boot of our car which was a Vauxhall Senator. Craig then got back into our car and drove to another location. Craig took the holdall out of the boot and took it to a "safe house' where all the drugs were stored. I went into the house with Craig who then placed the bag on the table.

He opened the bag up and I saw that it contained bars of brown cannabis resin which were all individually wrapped in a clear film. I was present when he checked that it was good quality by burning and smelling a sample and then counting the bars. I am unable to say how many bars there were. I have only met Mickey STEELE on a couple of occasions and that was only in passing.

I have not actually spoken to STEELE. On each occasion when I have seen him he has always made me very aware that he does not want me to look at him. The last deal which STEELE carried out for them was approximately two weeks after TATE was released from prison which was at the end of 001095. Craig told me that Mickey STEELE was arranging to bring in sixty thousand pounds worth of cannabis from abroad.

Craig put in seven thousand pounds, TUCKER put in twenty thousand pounds and TATE and a fourth person called Barry DOORMAN were putting in the remainder of the money. A couple of days before the cannabis was collected I went with Craig to TUCKER's home address in Fobbing, Essex, to hand him the seven thousand pounds which was in a Tesco's carrier bag. The money was handed to TUCKER who was in turn going to hand it to STEELE.

We were only at the house for about five minutes and as Craig and I were leaving and walking down the driveway towards our car, I saw Mickey STEELE walking up the driveway towards the house. He passed by us and nodded to Craig. He did not speak or acknowledge myself. STEELE had come from a white car which I believe he had been driving. I can not say what the car was but it was clean and had the appearance of an average family saloon.

There was a second male in the car who had short dark hair and appeared to be a little bit younger than STEELE. He appeared clean shaven but I did not take any further notice. We got into our vehicle which I believe was a Vauxhall Frontera which had been loaned to TATE by Barry DOORMAN, and left. A couple of days later Craig told me that STEELE had been arrested by Customs Officers whilst he was taking his boat from the water.

This was following him dropping the cannabis off at a safe point on the coastline about three miles away. That same day TATE was arrested during the early afternoon having crashed TUCKER's Porsche car in Southend. I was at work and would have finished at 1500 hours that day. Craig picked me up from work and told me what had happened to STEELE. About 1600 hours TUCKER phoned Craig on his mobile phone and told him about his car and what TATE had done to it.

About 1800 hours that day Craig and I drove to Southend Police Station to collect TATE. Once in the vehicle I became aware that TATE already knew about STEELE being arrested. He then used Craig's mobile phone to ring Jackie STEELE. He asked her if everything was 'safe'. I took it that it was as a result of TATE's manner and subsequently what he said to Craig. He said that it was all 'safe', I took this to mean that the drugs had not been found.

On this occasion I did hot know where the meeting between STEELE and the others was to take place but after a couple of days Craig brought his share of the cannabis round to our house in Chafford Hundred. Because the cannabis had already been sold on, the same day Craig and I took it up to the Golders Green area of North London where Craig handed it onto a coloured male called Gary.

No money was exchanged because the cannabis was what's known as 'laid on' Gary for him to sell and then pay Craig. The agreed amount per kilo worked out to be approximately ten thousand pounds for the lot. Already the others had placed their own share with other dealers but very quickly they started receiving phone calls telling them that the cannabis was very poor quality.

I learnt through Craig that TATE and TUCKER were very agitated because STEELE during this time was trying to push the price that he wanted up. In affect this was eating into their personal profit from the deal. They contacted STEELE and told him that they wanted their money back because the cannabis was rubbish. STEELE didn't want to take it back. TATE and TUCKER then started putting real pressure on STEELE to recover the money.

By pressure I mean through intimidation. I can not say exactly what they did, because I do not know, but I recall hearing conversations they had with STEELE on the phone where they were renting and raving at one another and pacing up and down. I understand that STEELE finally agreed to return the cannabis and get their money back for them. TATE in a fit of temper about the whole affair smashed each slab before it was returned.

STEELE had told them that a parcel the same size had been picked up by mistake and that's how the problem had come about. I am not certain but I think that on this occasion STEELE had to collect the cannabis from TUCKER's home address in order to return it. STEELE arranged to hand the money back to them on the continent. He was going to return the goods to his suppliers and then take the money to a pre-arranged location where he was to meet Craig, TUCKER and TATE.

The day they were going to meet coincided with Tony TUCKER's birthday which was the 171100. His girlfriend, Anna, had pre-booked a surprise night in a London hotel prior the trip to collect the money being made. Therefore Tony was not going to go. They wanted a group of people to go over in order that the money could be divided up to bring it back into this country.

Craig asked me to go but I refused because I was not happy about getting involved and didn't want to go. The eventual party consisted of Barry DOORMAN and his wife who went in their own car. Pat TATE and Craig with three girls. Donna GARWOOD, Liz FLETCHER and Gaynor HAYZER. They travelled in the Range Rover and left via Harwich. Craig did tell me where they went to but I can not remember the location or where they stayed.

I know that they stayed overnight in a hotel and were met by Mickey STEELE. I was told that he met TATE and they went into a separate room. They returned the next day with the money. Whilst all this was going on I was told that STEELE was promising TATE that he had a 'big job' lined up for him. Craig told me that STEELE had approached TATE and asked him to nick someone elses gear from them.

I understood that STEELE had been asked by a London based drugs firm to import 30 kilos of Charlie (Cocaine) and I believe that he was going to bring it in by plane from Holland. He had told Pat TATE that he was going to be given fifty thousand pounds as an up front payment to take to Holland and he was going to bring the Charlie back in company with a member of the London firm.

The idea was that Pat TATE and Tony TUCKER would rob the firm of the Charlie when it arrived over here. STEELE had stated that he wanted to share it between them and had told the firm that he was going to land near to Clacton. Craig told me that STEELE was planning to actually land in South Essex but I never knew exactly where this was likely to be. Craig, Tony and Pat had previously obtained a machine gun from a man called Mad Mick BOWMAN and the details of this are subject of a previous statement.

TATE and TUCKER were going to use the gun on the man from the firm in order to take the Charlie. I knew that they had made sure the gun worked but I did not know how far they were planning to go when they robbed the firm. STEELE was going to land the plane and TATE and TUCKER were then going to take the complete load. It was going to be split, eventually, ten kilos each, and was going to be taken to John MCCARTHY.

Craig told me that MCCARTHY was going to pay them nearly one million pounds for the load which was for TATE or TUCKER to divide. Not long after Craig had told me about this he told me that TATE and TUCKER had decided that he was going to drive the load away once it had been taken and go to MCCARTHY'S with it. They had told Craig that they intended to rip STEELE off by cutting 3 kilos of the Cocaine into ten kilos of impure.

This would have resulted in TATE and TUCKER having twenty seven kilos between them. The remaining three kilos was going to be taken to Mick BOWMAN and he was going to cut it for them. I do not know what the arrangements were to get the three kilos to BOWMAN or to get the ten kilos of impure back to STEELE. By this time I was getting very worried by Craig's involvement and told him that I didn't want him have any part in it.

He told me that STEELE didn't know that he was going to be driving and he convinced me that he wasn't as heavily involved as the other two in what was going to happen. He also talked about the money which was likely to be coming their way and how that would enable us to go ahead with whatever plans we wanted. I realised that I wasn't going to be able to talk him out of it and, albeit I really didn't want him to go through with it, I gave up in the end.

I believed that by this he was in too deep. Craig told me that the money had been paid to Mickey STEELE who had taken it to Holland. The weather had changed and there was now snow on the ground. Craig told me this was causing them delay and they were waiting for it to clear. On the day of the murder I was working as normal and was due to finish at 1500 hours. That evening Tony TUCKER and his girlfriend Anna, Craig and I and Pat TATE and a girlfriend named Clare, were all going to the Global Net Cafe restaurant in Romford.

We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Graig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft. Craig mentioned to me that they had been to or were going to, I can't remember which, to the T.G.I. Fridays restaurant at Lakeside. I later found out that this had been TATE, TUCKER, and Craig and a person railed Peter CUTHBERT.

I do not know why they met or what was discussed. I left work at 1500 hours that day and went home. The meal at Romford was booked for 2000 hours. I was busy wrapping Christmas presents when Craig returned home with our daughter Georgie. We were at home together for about an hour and a half. Craig told me that I was to be ready for 1900 hours to go out. He was going with the others to look at the air strip and then would come to collect me.

Craig wanted me to have something new to wear for the evening and took me to the Lakeside shopping centre at 1745 hours. He was driving the Range Rover and left me to go and pick Tony TUCKER up. Craig told me that he was going because he didn't want Tony to be in a position to say that he hadn't had any part in the arranging. I also understood that Craig was going to collect Tony TUCKER from his home and they were going to meet TATE and STEELE later. I did not have contact from Craig, TATE or TUCKER after this point.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED STATEMENT
TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 140396
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 03:07:36 PM

13/06/96 - RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW of Sarah Louise SAUNDERS
Page 01 02

RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW

Person Interviewed: Sarah Louise SAUNDERS
Place of Interview: Brentwood Police Station
Date of Interview: 13 June 1996
Time commenced: 7.44pm
Time Concluded: 8.18pm
Duration of Interview: 34 minutes
Tape Reference no's 42GB/879/96-6
Interviewing Officer(s): Philip NORTON Detective Constable
Other Person(s) Present: Dean CHAPPLE Detective Constable

DC NORTON
This interview is being tape recorded at Brentwood Police Station, Thursday the 13th June 1996, the time is now 7.44 pm. I'm Philip NORTON a Detective Constable from the Central Detective Unit, Police Headquarters. Here with me is Dean CHAPPLE.

DC CHAPPLE
I'm Detective Constable 537 Dean CHAPPLE stationed at South Woodham Ferrers Police Station.

DC NORTON
To interview Sarah, if you can just acknowledge your presence Sarah.

SAUNDERS
Yes Sarah SAUNDERS.

DC NORTON
Thank you very much. Sarah you still have your rights and you can seek free legal advice at any time whilst you're in Police custody, do you understand that.

SAUNDERS
Yes I do.

DC NORTON
Now are you happy for this interview to continue without the presence of a solicitor.

SAUNDERS
Yes.

DC NORTON
Okay. We've had a quite a break now, have you had something to eat.

SAUNDERS
Yes thank you, I've had some toast.

DC NORTON
Good and you feel okay and refreshed enough to continue with the interview.

SAUNDERS
Yes I do.

DC NORTON
Right you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you fail to mention something when questioned which you later rely on in court, anything you do say may be given in evidence. Do you understand that.

SAUNDERS
Yes.

DC NORTON
Now there's been a quite a delay now Sarah, it's not been our desire at all to delay you at all today.

SAUNDERS
Okay.

DC NORTON
As I keep saying to you, we're looking to, for you to have the opportunity to say what you will um and we're not looking to detain you unnecessarily.

SAUNDERS
Okay.

DC NORTON
Um it's been a problem with getting a reviewing officer which is the, it's a lady inspector that you've just seen, she's had to come all the way from Harlow, that's just the way it's happened unfortunately and that's delayed us by some hours.

SAUNDERS
Okay.

DC NORTON
As I said but it's had chance for you to get your thoughts together and let you have a chance to think.

SAUNDERS
Okay.

DC NORTON
Anything more we need to say before we start.

DC CHAPPLE
No, no.

DC NORTON
Okay Sarah we're in a position where you've obviously said quite a lot today and you've said about and you've tried to explain things that have happened that could look bad on you and you've had your chance to say. What we feel is that we ought to give you the opportunity of seeing um the evidence that is at hand, that is against Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES in relation to the murders of Pat TATE, Tony TUCKER and Craig ROLFE. If you are to be believed that you were not a party to their deaths, that you weren't in the know that this was going to happen on the 6th December, that you hadn't arranged for yourself to be with Mark that night as an alibi which we explained to you earlier (pause). I've spoken to you on a previous interview about the evidence of Darren NICHOLLS and about he will say that you informed Michael STEELE that there was a threat on his life by Pat TATE. I've told you about that and I would urge you again during this interview to explain that to us and what your intentions were when you told Michael STEELE, what was you hoping to achieve by doing that and if it was for honourable purposes, if you understand what I mean.

SAUNDERS
Yes.

DC NORTON
Then I would urge you that that this is the time and the place to speak your mind and tell us why. The other bit of particular interest from Darren NICHOLLS' evidence is that he will say when Michael STEELE returned to the car having shot Pat, he said to NICHOLLS words to the effect of you can't believe what that silly cow's Sarah's just done, she's phoned Pat on the mobile on the way here. You phoned Pat TATE at 6.44/45 pm on the 6th December, is that correct.

SAUNDERS
Yes.

DC NORTON
We believe at that time Michael STEELE was in company with Patrick TATE, and they were driving towards Rettendon and that at approximately 7 o'clock Craig, Pat and Tony were shot dead by Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES (pause) you unfortunately Sarah, phoned Pat (pause) during the last moments of his life (pause). We will show that mobile phones, I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite, and we will show that the phones that evening of Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES were firstly in the area of Brentwood, in the area of Childerditch where they met Pat, Tony and Darren, Pat, Tony and Craig at the Half Way House, they then drove to the Hungry Horse at Rayleigh where Mickey STEELE left his car and got in the back of the car with Pat and that when they left there on the way to Rettendon is when you phoned him (pause). Michael STEELE' s phone was showing as being in the area at the right time, Darren NICHOLLS says that Mickey STEELE was with Pat, Tony and Craig, the beacons show the phones being in the relevant area at the time (pause). Donna JAGGERS will give evidence that they were going to meet Mickey STEELE that night (pause) and I believe that in, if you're to believe, I think at the back of your mind there's a nagging doubt that Michael STEELE killed Pat, Tony and Craig, was there at the time when they were shot dead (pause). Are you alright.

SAUNDERS
Yeah.

DC NORTON
Is there anything you want to say. Pause.

SAUNDERS
Um (long pause) don't know (pause) um I don't know what, I don't know what to say.

DC NORTON
I would like you to tell us the truth about what you told Michael STEELE and the reasons why you told him. Pause.

SAUNDERS
Um (long pause) um I err I don't know when, I'd been to the bungalow one day, don't know, I don't know what how it, Pat said it but um he said that um something I don't know I think it, I was there, I can't remember why I went round there and um he said that um something about Mick he said um that he was gonna um up North, I don't know a deal or something um and he wasn't coming back and he was laughing (long pause). Crying.

DC NORTON
Take your time.

SAUNDERS
Oh I'm sorry.

DC NORTON
It's okay. Pause. Crying

DC NORTON
Have a cigarette, are you alright.

SAUNDERS
Yeah.

DC NORTON
Take your time.

SAUNDERS
This wasn't meant to happen, I didn't know something would happen.

DC NORTON
What wasn't meant to happen.

SAUNDERS
I didn't know this would happen (pause) I was just worried about Mick, and so I phoned him and told, I met him and said to him what Pat had said and I just said don't go up North (pause) and I just thought that was the end of it, I didn't think anything like this would happen (pause).

DC NORTON
You were frightened for Michael.

SAUNDERS
Yeah but I didn't think anything like this would happen, honestly I didn't (pause).

DC NORTON
What did you think would happen when you told him.

SAUNDERS
I don't know I just, I just thought that he wouldn't go and do whatever it was that he was gonna do.

DC NORTON
You said something about going up North.

SAUNDERS
Yeah I can't remember what Pat said, but he something about going up North and he wasn't coming back again and he laughed and I said um but he's you're friend and he just laughed (pause).

DC NORTON
Why did Pat tell you that.

SAUNDERS
I don't know.

DC NORTON
He didn't just come out with it.

SAUNDERS
He did, he was like that, and he did.

DC NORTON
But he hasn't talked to you about anything else.

SAUNDERS
I know, he hadn't spoken to me about anything else and this day he was like he had to tell people things (pause).

DC NORTON
What did he specifically say.

SAUNDERS
Just um, I remember we was in the kitchen um and err I don't know why I went round there (pause) don't know, he just said that, I don't know why he said, I can't remember why he said it but I remember like I was shocked cause he just come out with it (pause).

DC NORTON
About when was this Sarah, do you know.

SAUNDERS
I don't know, no, I think I was um.

DC NORTON
Sort of after you'd been to Portugal.

SAUNDERS
Yeah (pause) yeah.

DC NORTON
At Gordon Road.

SAUNDERS
It happened, he said it at Gordon Road, yeah.

DC CHAPPLE
Had the Ostend trip taken place.

SAUNDERS
Um I think so, I think so, I can't remember but I think it had, um cause I think, yeah I think I was living at Sue's when he went to Ostend (pause).

DC NORTON
Did he say anything else.

SAUNDERS
No, I remember saying oh don't be stupid, be quiet or something (pause).

DC NORTON
What did he actually say about how he was, what he was gonna do.

SAUNDERS
He didn't say, say what he was gonna do, he just laughed and that he was not coming back again.

DC NORTON
And what did you take that to mean.

SAUNDERS
That something would happen to Mick.

DC NORTON
That something would happen.

SAUNDERS
Hum. Pause.

DC NORTON
And what.

DC CHAPPLE
Sony.

DC NORTON
And what would that something be.

SAUNDERS
Well I just, I don't know, I just that something would happen to him and he wouldn't come back.

DC NORTON
Meaning that he would be killed.

SAUNDERS
Yeah.

DC NORTON
How soon after did you meet Michael to tell him.

SAUNDERS
I phoned him up I think um that afternoon or sort of quite soon afterwards (pause).

DC NORTON
Hum.

SAUNDERS
And um I went and met him.

DC NORTON
Where did you meet him.

SAUNDERS
Um at the A12, it's a, I think there's a MacDonalds up there near Chelmsford.

DC NORTON
Hum.

SAUNDERS
And um I phoned him up on his mobile phone and asked him to meet me.

DC NORTON
From where.

SAUNDERS
I don't know, I can't remember.

DC NORTON
Was you on a mobile.

SAUNDERS
Was I.

DC NORTON
Hum.

SAUNDERS
No I didn't have a mobile.

DC NORTON
Telephone box.

SAUNDERS
It might've been or I might've gone back, I might've been living at Great Gregory, I'm not sure, I can't remember where I phoned him from.

DC NORTON
But you arranged to meet him at MacDonalds.

SAUNDERS
Yeah.

DC NORTON
At what time of day.

SAUNDERS
I, um, it was in the afternoon.

DC NORTON
Right, so just tell me what happened, you drove up there on your own.

SAUNDERS
No I had Jordan with me.

DC NORTON
In what car.

SAUNDERS
Um (pause) the Golf I think it would've been.

DC NORTON
Right.

SAUNDERS
And um (pause) I just met him.

DC NORTON
What in MacDonalds or the car park.

SAUNDERS
In the car park.

DC NORTON
Yeah, what was he in.

SAUNDERS
Um (pause) I don't know I think he was in his truck, I don't, I can't remember actually.

DC NORTON
Right and what happened.

SAUNDERS
He was in his track, and um we just sat on the bench outside MacDonalds and I just said to him (pause) just said to him what um Pat had said (pause) um (pause) it wasn't that long, I don't think anyway.

DC NORTON
What did you say to him.

SAUNDERS
I just repeated that he said he was gonna go up North and not come back again.

DC NORTON
What did Michael say.

SAUNDERS
I can't remember, he just sort of, I don't know, just sort of um.

DC NORTON
Think about it.

SAUNDERS
I think he said he wasn't gonna go or something, don't worry, he's not gonna go, something like that.

DC NORTON
Did he say, did he seem to know what you were talking about going up North.

SAUNDERS
No I don't think he did (pause) I don't think he did but I remember he said don't worry he's not going to go (pause).

DC CHAPPLE
Could you just clarify there please Sarah, you say he said don't worry he's not gonna go, is this what Michael said.

SAUNDERS
Yeah I think so.

DC CHAPPLE
And he was referring to Pat wasn't gonna go or.

SAUNDERS
No I think he was referring to himself, don't worry I'm not going to go, he's not going to go. Pause.

DC NORTON
So had he decided not to go because of what you told him.

Page 01 02
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 05, 2019, 03:14:18 PM
13/06/96 - RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW of Sarah Louise SAUNDERS
Page 01 02

SAUNDERS
I don't know if he was sort of knew that he was gonna go anyway or um if err, don't know if he'd arranged to go or whatever but it, we didn't sort of go in to it but (pause) I don't know (pause).

DC NORTON
Why was there a big falling out Sarah, was it because of the Ostend.

SAUNDERS
I didn't think there was a big falling out to be honest, I really, really didn't think there was. Pause.

DC NORTON
Did you know that Pat went out to meet Mickey in Ostend.

SAUNDERS
Pause. Yeah I did but, I thought um it was all sorted out and I thought that Pat was happy with that (pause).

DC NORTON
Did you know Mickey had returned a lot of money to Pat for a drug deal that had gone wrong.

SAUNDERS
Yeah I heard that he'd sort of, I don't know where I heard that but I heard that it did and that's why I couldn't understand there being any animosity between them.

DC NORTON
How much money was handed over, do you know.

SAUNDERS
I don't know, I just heard it was a large amount, I don't know eighty thousand or something, I don't know.

DC NORTON
And where did you hear that from.

SAUNDERS
I can't remember, there's been, I know a lot of people have spoke about it, um, I don't know.

DC NORTON
Annette.

SAUNDERS
Possibly, I don't know, I really don't know, a lot of people have said things, I don't know.

DC NORTON
Have you ever approached Michael about it.

SAUNDERS
No.

DC NORTON
You've never asked him about the money that was returned.

SAUNDERS
No.

DC NORTON
Why's that.

SAUNDERS
Um (pause) I just um, don't know I, it was never anything to do with me (pause) um just never, it wasn't anything to do with me.

DC NORTON
How soon after the meeting at MacDonalds did it arrive at the 6th of December.

SAUNDERS
I don't know um (pause).

DC NORTON
What day of the week was it on.

SAUNDERS
I haven't got a clue, it was in the week, I don't know when it was though, um (pause) I don't know possibly a couple of weeks but then I don't know because as I say a lot happened in the five weeks his was out anyway um.

DC NORTON
But it was after the Ostend trip.

SAUNDERS
Yeah but it seems like a long time, but I don't know (pause).

DC NORTON
I'll just see if I can confirm the date of the Ostend trip Sarah, I've loads of bits of paper in this folder. Pause.

DC NORTON
Is there anything you want to ask Sarah while I'm looking.

DC CHAPPLE
Did Pat ever go up North.

SAUNDERS
Not to my knowledge, I don't know, as I say I mean that day I was really surprised that he um said that because sort of he'd not sort of said anything like that to me um (pause) um about any of his dealings or anything, so um.

DC CHAPPLE
What did he tell you about going up North.

SAUNDERS
That was all, literally all he said um.

DC CHAPPLE
Who he was going with or anything.

SAUNDERS
He didn't, I don't even know if Pat was going or not, I know he said that Mick was going and he wasn't going to come back.

DC CHAPPLE
Did he speak about anybody else going.

SAUNDERS
No,..... that, but that is all that he said.

DC CHAPPLE
Right.

DC NORTON
I haven't got the specific date here Sarah, but I think it was (pause) I'm not sure it was mid, mid November to about the.

DC CHAPPLE
I don't know about the 20th or something.

DC NORTON
20,20th November, so it was after that.

SAUNDERS
Yeah, I'm sure it was after that.

DC NORTON
But before.

SAUNDERS
I'm sure it was after that.

DC NORTON
Before the week of Pat's death then it would be within a couple of days of the Ostend trip and within a week to ten days of Pat's death, Pat's death, is that about right.

SAUNDERS
Yeah probably.

DC NORTON
Yeah. Have you not since Pat's death then milled over.

SAUNDERS
Yeah.

DC NORTON
That.

SAUNDERS
I have yeah, but um, I heard that Pat had so, certainly the three of them all together had so many enemies that I just didn't ever think (pause) that um (pause) that that was relevant somehow, I don't know why, I just didn't (pause) I suppose sort of um, I don't know I just didn't think it was relevant, I just thought they had so many enemies between, enemies between them and (pause) and I don't know. Pause.

DC NORTON
There was no way that Michael would have known that you'd phoned Pat at quarter to seven unless he was in the car with him at the time.

SAUNDERS
But then I think that Pat would have said I'm with Mick or urn.

DC NORTON
But you hadn't discussed his dealings with Mick with you at all had he. You didn't know that they were arranging.

SAUNDERS
But he usually, you know if he was with somebody that I knew he'd say I'm with so and so and he just said I've with some people at the moment.

DC CHAPPLE
Of course Darren will say that that was one of Mick's concerns when he came back to the car that he thought Pat would say I'm with Mick because he knew that if that had happened then their plans of obviously shooting the three couldn't have gone ahead (pause) because he mentions that to Darren. Long pause.

DC NORTON
Is there anything else you haven't told us.

SAUNDERS
No (pause) no.

DC NORTON
Can you see how this has all happened today Sarah (pause) and how all this could have been prevented if (pause) you'd said all this before (pause) urn. Pause.

SAUNDERS
I know.

DC NORTON
You see how it throws a different light on everything.

SAUNDERS
Yeah. Pause.

DC NORTON
And how it could've been interpreted, if Darren is telling us the that you told Michael that his life was under threat and you hadn't come forward to tell us since Pat's death.

SAUNDERS
I just thought he had to know, in the end I mean, that he wasn't, Mick wasn't capable of doing that to anybody. Pause.

DC NORTON
Well I'm afraid it's true Sarah, (pause). He suckered them in (pause) can you see how relevant that is to the prosecution against Michael STEELE (pause) he knew Pat planned to kill him.

SAUNDERS
Pat always things though.

DC NORTON
Sorry say that again.

SAUNDERS
He always said silly things, he didn't, I don't know he mean them.

DC NORTON
You didn't think he meant it.

SAUNDERS
Well I don't know what I thought.

DC NORTON
You took it seriously enough Sarah to go and warn him.

SAUNDERS
But I thought if I didn't warn then something happened (pause) how would I feel.

DC NORTON
Like you do now probably. Pause.

DC NORTON
If that's true Sarah, you did it for the right reasons.

SAUNDERS
Yeah but look what's happened (long pause). Crying.

DC NORTON
It's the truth isn't it, I mean. Pause.

DC NORTON
Is there any other way then in hindsight, looking at it you could have done anything different. Pause.

SAUNDERS
I don't know.

DC NORTON
Right.

SAUNDERS
I should have just kept out of it shouldn't I and it probably wouldn't of happened.

DC NORTON
But if it's true you did what you thought was best.

SAUNDERS
Yeah, it's not always the right thing is it. Pause.

DC NORTON
Is there anything else that we've covered on previous interviews that (pause) you held back any information.

SAUNDERS
No.

DC NORTON
Is there anything more you've got to say to us.

SAUNDERS
No (pause) no.

DC NORTON
Do you understand the importance of that evidence if, if that's used.

SAUNDERS
Yeah. Pause.

DC NORTON
It's quite a major development in this interview situation and this day Sarah, and I think it's only right now that you have time to collect your thoughts (pause) it's a brave step, but it's the right step I believe (pause) if justice is to be done, Sarah (pause).

DC CHAPPLE
Since um, since you told Mickey that at the MacDonalds yeah, you obviously had contact with him and Jackie prior to the deaths.

SAUNDERS
Yeah.

DC CHAPPLE
What if any conversation that you've had with Mick, is there any along the same sort of lines.

SAUNDERS
No.

DC CHAPPLE
Did he ask you anything on whether Pat had said anything further.

SAUNDERS
Not as far as I remember no (pause) no. I just thought that um he just wouldn't go up North or whatever he was gonna do or whatever and it would all be alright (pause).

DC CHAPPLE
So other than that one time when you spoke with him and warned him off, you never spoke to him since, or he's never brought that up.

SAUNDERS
No (pause) no I don't think so.

DC CHAPPLE
Maybe that's something you can think about.

SAUNDERS
Yeah (pause) yeah. Pause.

SAUNDERS
Um what now then.

DC NORTON
Well this, this major development Sarah and it does throw a light on what you've been saying to us before, I need to go and speak to my bosses and tell them what you've done, what you've said and take their advice about the way forward. Pause.

DC CHAPPLE
It might seem a harsh question Sarah, but I'm gonna ask it, um when Pat told you about what would happen to Mickey if he went up North um, could it have been a case that you saw that by telling Mickey, that would give Mickey, that would get Pat out of your life.

SAUNDERS
No not at all no.

DC CHAPPLE
Okay (pause) and your only reason of telling him was obviously to stop him going up North.

SAUNDERS
I was scared for him that was all. Long pause.

DC NORTON
Is there anything more you want to say.

SAUNDERS
No.

DC NORTON
Sure, any questions.

SAUNDERS
No.

DC NORTON
Sure.

SAUNDERS
Yeah.

DC NORTON
We'll conclude the interview there at 8.18.

Page 01 02
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 06, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
Thanks Sika.  I've read DJ's WS which I uploaded further up thread.  Imo her WS is very suspicious.  It seems she had a good relationship with Rolfe.  The pair had been together for some years and had a daughter.  Early press reports have her pleading for info on 9th Dec '95:

Donna Jaggers, aged 27, Rolfe's common law wife, broke down as she pleaded for information at a press conference yesterday. The couple have a six-year-old daughter. Rolfe was last seen at 6pm on Wednesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1715361,00.html

On 14th Mar '96 she makes a WS stating the trio were off to meet Steele et al.  If this was the case why did it take EP so long to investigate those who were the last to associate with the murdered trio?  As I said in a post up thread the timings don't work.

What real evidence exists for a meeting between the murdered trio and a plane landing etc? 

Is there anything to suggest the following didn't happen:

The perps (probably military or police trained) break-in to Tuckers home in Fobbing.  They take him at gunpoint and force him to call Rolfe and Tate for a meeting.  Rolfe turns up and is then forced to drive at gunpoint to Tate's.  Tate gets into the car thinking its all safe.  The perps then tell Rolfe to drive to a location or straight to Rettendon.  The perps obtain whatever they want from the trio ie info re any stash of drugs/cash/firearms and/or execute.  Rettendon was chosen due to its proximity to Peter Theobald's shooting range and the sound of gunshot would not be unusual. 

What about the hard evidence: pathological, forensics and ballistics?  What happened to the spent cartridges?  What was the distance of shots?  Trajectories?  It should have been possible to pinpoint the position of perp in relation to the murdered trio?

With regard to Sarah Saunders WS again a vulnerable woman who was no doubt upset her associates were no more and her friend Steele was in the frame.  As she said:

- Tate talked nonsense a lot of the time
- The the trio had numerous enemies
- She didn't think any animosity existed between Steele and Tate. 
- She said whenever she called Pat and he was in the presence of those she knew he would say eg I'm with Mick (Steele) but on the occasion she last spoke with him he said 'I'm with some people'.  This obviously wasn't what EP wanted to hear.  And EP were selling it hard about Steele/Whomes involvement despite the lack of any forensic evidence.  Nicholls was not there.
- Notice how EP have Steele referring to her as a 'silly cow'!

I'm not sure if EP are just as thick as they come, lazy or poorly trained or a combi of all three but from what little I know about this case and a better knowledge of JB's case it appears to me EP come up with a hunch and then use bullying tactics often on vulnerable women eg in this case Jaggers/Saunders and JB's case the likes of Christine Bacon and JM to get them to support the hunch.  And/or EP enter into deals with the likes of JM/Nicholls whereby they relieve them of potential criminal charges and introduce them to the media for financial inducements.

The whole thing stinks imo. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 06, 2019, 01:28:59 PM
According to DJ's WS Tucker had a couple of horses at Longwood Stables, Dry Street, Basildon.  Is it possible the perps either ambushed Tucker there or lured him there and the others were then called by Tucker.  They were then executed at Rettendon due to its proximity to Peter Theobald's shooting range where the sound of gunshot would not seem out of the ordinary?

The timings in DJ's WS don't stack up but they would if the initial meet was the stables.  By this I mean Rolfe's Range Rover was recorded on CCTV leaving Lakeside at 6pm and he was due to pick up DJ at 7pm (from Lakeside? or their home in Chafford Hundred? distance between 2 is 2 min drive) with the trio due at a restaurant in Romford by 8pm.  This can't be done if Rolfe went to pick up Tucker/Fobbing then Tate/Basildon then on to Rettendon for recce and back.  If they met at Tucker's stables it was doable.   

This would also account for the fact no one could recall a Range Rover having to wait to cross a busy road during rush hour. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 06, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Donna Jaggers WS refers to a Lizzie Fletcher accompanying Rolfe and Tate to Holland to collect the cash refund for the duff cannabis.  Here she is at 7.30min in where the narrator refers to her as Tate's girlfriend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlqpePQYnck

PT stamped on her forehead  (^&&

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 07, 2019, 07:25:52 PM
Donna Jaggers WS refers to a Lizzie Fletcher accompanying Rolfe and Tate to Holland to collect the cash refund for the duff cannabis.  Here she is at 7.30min in where the narrator refers to her as Tate's girlfriend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlqpePQYnck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlqpePQYnck)

PT stamped on her forehead  (^&&
I thought you hadn't got time to investigate other cases?!

All I see here are rats in a sack vying for power to destroy young people's lives, and when looking at the crime scene and mortuary photos think 'Good Riddance!'
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 08, 2019, 12:07:44 PM
I thought you hadn't got time to investigate other cases?!

All I see here are rats in a sack vying for power to destroy young people's lives, and when looking at the crime scene and mortuary photos think 'Good Riddance!'

I don't have the time or inclination to 'investigate' new cases but I started dipping into this one over a year ago as I see it as a sideways move from WHF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxcDTUMLQJI

I find common themes between the two cases and I am interested in understanding more about the world of illegal drugs. 

I agree they were/are drug dealing s..m but the point is are Steele and Whomes (also drug dealing s..m) actually responsible for the murders?   If not they need to receive sentences appropriate for their drug dealing offences and the perp(s) of the murders need holding to account with Nicholls (also drug dealing s..m) held to account for his drug dealing offences and perverting the course of justice.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 08, 2019, 12:17:04 PM
Calling Sika and others...help...

Am I missing something here...I have attempted to find all the mobile tel masts in Essex thinking there would be a number whereas according to the following it appears the 2 calls Whomes made to Nicholls were routed through the only two masts in Essex!  Meaning the fact Whomes calls were routed through these masts which happen to be in close proximity to where the Range Rover and bodies were found means SFA!? 

https://www.mastdata.com/37/37_map_mobile_mast.aspx?Table=15&AdTyID=43&ROName=essex&Z=14
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 08, 2019, 12:56:40 PM
It seems if you use the above for the whole of Essex it throws up the 2 masts quoted at trial but if you select towns of Essex it throws up more masts.  So it appears Whomes was in the vicinity of the Range Rover at a time when it is thought the trio were murdered. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 08, 2019, 03:37:02 PM
The following is an excerpt from the CoA doc re Nicholls' account of the murders:

In the weeks that followed Nicholls went about his normal business. This included carrying out electrical work for Steele on his property. On 6 December Nicholls was doing some plumbing and labouring work for someone else in the Sunbury area, west of London. In the middle of the day there was telephone contact between Nicholls, who was still in Sunbury, and Steele, who was at or near Colchester. Nicholls left Sunbury in the early afternoon and drove to Essex via the M25 and M11. The arrangement was that Nicholls would meet Steele at Marks Tey at 5.00 o'clock. Steele arrived late driving a Toyota. They waited for Whomes who arrived in a Volkswagen Passat. It became apparent that Steele and Whomes had arranged a meeting with Tate. Steele said that its purpose was a drugs deal. From Marks Tey Steele and Nicholls travelled in the Toyota and Whomes followed in the Passat. Both vehicles stopped at a country park at which point Nicholls joined Whomes in the Passat which Nicholls then drove. Whomes told Nicholls to drive to the Halfway House public house and park. When they arrived the Toyota was there and Whomes told Nicholls to park at a distance from it. A Range Rover then arrived and parked next to the Toyota. Whomes said that it was Tate in the Range Rover. Whomes then directed Nicholls along the A130 close to the village of Rettenden. He indicated a farm track whereupon Nicholls drove in and turned the car round. Whomes got out of the car, told Nicholls to go elsewhere and await a phone call to pick Whomes up at the same place. Whomes took a canvas bag and a coat from the back of the car. Nicholls drove to a nearby public house, The Wheatsheaf. There he saw that his mobile phone signal was poor so he drove off and parked again in Meadow Road. Before very long Whomes telephoned to be picked up. Nicholls drove back to the farm track. At first he did not see anyone but Whomes arrived and went into the back of the car. Whomes said that Steele would not be long but had dropped something. Steele then arrived and sat in the front passenger seat. When the interior light came on, Nicholls noticed that Whomes was wearing surgical-type gloves and that they were speckled with red. It soon became apparent to Nicholls that the point of the rendezvous with Tate and his associates had not been a drugs transaction but had been murder. No sooner had Steele got into the car and told Nicholls to drive away than he said "They won't f..k with us again." Steele handed over some parts of a gun to Whomes. Whomes said Steele had fired it and it had fallen apart. Nicholls was directed to drive to another public house where the Toyota had been parked. Steele described how he had been in the farm track with Tate when Tate's mobile had received an incoming call from Sarah Saunders. It had taken Steele by surprise because it was an affectionate call, whereas Steele was under the impression that Sarah Saunders wanted nothing more to do with Tate. Steele described Whomes as cold-hearted because of the ruthlessness with which he had shot the three occupants of the Range Rover. Whomes had then reloaded his weapon and, without emotion, shot them each again in the back of the head. Eventually Steele took Nicholls back to Marks Tey where Nicholls' own car was parked. He continued to see Steele and Whomes after that but the contact was less. He also continued to do work at Steele's property. Some time later, Steele had described the three deceased as "horrible b........s", his attitude being that he had done the world a favour by getting rid of them. Steele or Whomes said that the gun had been ground up and been thrown into the sea. Steele had burned the overalls and boots which he and Whomes had worn.

So according to the above Nicholls, Steele and Whomes (NSW) met at Marks Tey at 5pm.  It states Steele arrived late and then Whomes turned up.  No idea how late was late and/or what time NSW departed Marks Tey.  I will assume 5pm.  They then travelled to a country park where Nicholls left Steele and joined Whomes with the two cars then travelling to the Halfway House (CM13 3LL) with the final destination Rettendon:

5 pm @ Marks Tey to CM13 3LL = 45 mins

CM13 3LL to Rettendon = 21 mins @ 6.07pm

The times for Rolfe, Tate and Tucker (RTT):

Rolfe's Range Rover is on CCTV leaving Lakeside at 6pm.  By all accounts he picked up Tucker from Fobbing and Tate from Basildon then on to the Halfway House (CM13 3LL) to meet Steele.

6pm @ Lakeside to Fobbing 19 mins

Fobbing to Basildon = 9 mins

Basildon to Halfway House = 14 mins

Halfway House to Rettendon = 21 mins @ 7.03pm

So based on the journey times it seems Nicholls is about an hour out!?

I know the area well as my bestie lives in Brentwood and when I first skimmed thru it I thought the times don't stack up with the journeys.  Not only the above but they don't stack up from Donna Jagger's WS where she claims she was to picked up by Rolfe from Lakeside shopping centre or their nearby home in Chafford Hundred at 7pm for the night out in Romford. 

Rolfe CCTV at Lakeside at 6pm to collect Tucker at Fobbing is 19 mins

Fobbing to Tate at Basildon is 9 mins

Basildon to Halfway House is 14 mins

Halfway House to Rettendon is 21 mins

Total 63 mins and that's without doing anything at Rettendon and return journey





Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 09, 2019, 06:32:42 AM
The following is an excerpt from the CoA doc re Nicholls' account of the murders:

In the weeks that followed Nicholls went about his normal business. This included carrying out electrical work for Steele on his property. On 6 December Nicholls was doing some plumbing and labouring work for someone else in the Sunbury area, west of London. In the middle of the day there was telephone contact between Nicholls, who was still in Sunbury, and Steele, who was at or near Colchester. Nicholls left Sunbury in the early afternoon and drove to Essex via the M25 and M11. The arrangement was that Nicholls would meet Steele at Marks Tey at 5.00 o'clock. Steele arrived late driving a Toyota. They waited for Whomes who arrived in a Volkswagen Passat. It became apparent that Steele and Whomes had arranged a meeting with Tate. Steele said that its purpose was a drugs deal. From Marks Tey Steele and Nicholls travelled in the Toyota and Whomes followed in the Passat. Both vehicles stopped at a country park at which point Nicholls joined Whomes in the Passat which Nicholls then drove. Whomes told Nicholls to drive to the Halfway House public house and park. When they arrived the Toyota was there and Whomes told Nicholls to park at a distance from it. A Range Rover then arrived and parked next to the Toyota. Whomes said that it was Tate in the Range Rover. Whomes then directed Nicholls along the A130 close to the village of Rettenden. He indicated a farm track whereupon Nicholls drove in and turned the car round. Whomes got out of the car, told Nicholls to go elsewhere and await a phone call to pick Whomes up at the same place. Whomes took a canvas bag and a coat from the back of the car. Nicholls drove to a nearby public house, The Wheatsheaf. There he saw that his mobile phone signal was poor so he drove off and parked again in Meadow Road. Before very long Whomes telephoned to be picked up. Nicholls drove back to the farm track. At first he did not see anyone but Whomes arrived and went into the back of the car. Whomes said that Steele would not be long but had dropped something. Steele then arrived and sat in the front passenger seat. When the interior light came on, Nicholls noticed that Whomes was wearing surgical-type gloves and that they were speckled with red. It soon became apparent to Nicholls that the point of the rendezvous with Tate and his associates had not been a drugs transaction but had been murder. No sooner had Steele got into the car and told Nicholls to drive away than he said "They won't f..k with us again." Steele handed over some parts of a gun to Whomes. Whomes said Steele had fired it and it had fallen apart. Nicholls was directed to drive to another public house where the Toyota had been parked. Steele described how he had been in the farm track with Tate when Tate's mobile had received an incoming call from Sarah Saunders. It had taken Steele by surprise because it was an affectionate call, whereas Steele was under the impression that Sarah Saunders wanted nothing more to do with Tate. Steele described Whomes as cold-hearted because of the ruthlessness with which he had shot the three occupants of the Range Rover. Whomes had then reloaded his weapon and, without emotion, shot them each again in the back of the head. Eventually Steele took Nicholls back to Marks Tey where Nicholls' own car was parked. He continued to see Steele and Whomes after that but the contact was less. He also continued to do work at Steele's property. Some time later, Steele had described the three deceased as "horrible b......s", his attitude being that he had done the world a favour by getting rid of them. Steele or Whomes said that the gun had been ground up and been thrown into the sea. Steele had burned the overalls and boots which he and Whomes had worn.

So according to the above Nicholls, Steele and Whomes (NSW) met at Marks Tey at 5pm.  It states Steele arrived late and then Whomes turned up.  No idea how late was late and/or what time NSW departed Marks Tey.  I will assume 5pm.  They then travelled to a country park where Nicholls left Steele and joined Whomes with the two cars then travelling to the Halfway House (CM13 3LL) with the final destination Rettendon:

5 pm @ Marks Tey to CM13 3LL = 45 mins

CM13 3LL to Rettendon = 21 mins @ 6.07pm

The times for Rolfe, Tate and Tucker (RTT):

Rolfe's Range Rover is on CCTV leaving Lakeside at 6pm.  By all accounts he picked up Tucker from Fobbing and Tate from Basildon then on to the Halfway House (CM13 3LL) to meet Steele.

6pm @ Lakeside to Fobbing 19 mins

Fobbing to Basildon = 9 mins

Basildon to Halfway House = 14 mins

Halfway House to Rettendon = 21 mins @ 7.03pm

So based on the journey times it seems Nicholls is about an hour out!?

I know the area well as my bestie lives in Brentwood and when I first skimmed thru it I thought the times don't stack up with the journeys.  Not only the above but they don't stack up from Donna Jagger's WS where she claims she was to picked up by Rolfe from Lakeside shopping centre or their nearby home in Chafford Hundred at 7pm for the night out in Romford. 

Rolfe CCTV at Lakeside at 6pm to collect Tucker at Fobbing is 19 mins

Fobbing to Tate at Basildon is 9 mins

Basildon to Halfway House is 14 mins

Halfway House to Rettendon is 21 mins

Total 63 mins and that's without doing anything at Rettendon and return journey
Rolfe, Tate and Tucker all left Lakeside together after having a meal at TGI Fridays.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 09, 2019, 09:09:19 AM
Rolfe, Tate and Tucker all left Lakeside together after having a meal at TGI Fridays.

According to Donna Jagger's WS she states Rolfe dropped her off at Lakeside at 5.45pm (recorded on CCTV leaving Lakeside at 6pm) to pick up Tucker from his home.  The meal at TGI Friday's appears to have been sometime earlier:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508993#msg508993

We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Graig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft. Craig mentioned to me that they had been to or were going to, I can't remember which, to the T.G.I. Fridays restaurant at Lakeside. I later found out that this had been TATE, TUCKER, and Craig and a person railed Peter CUTHBERT.

I do not know why they met or what was discussed. I left work at 1500 hours that day and went home. The meal at Romford was booked for 2000 hours. I was busy wrapping Christmas presents when Craig returned home with our daughter Georgie. We were at home together for about an hour and a half. Craig told me that I was to be ready for 1900 hours to go out. He was going with the others to look at the air strip and then would come to collect me.

Craig wanted me to have something new to wear for the evening and took me to the Lakeside shopping centre at 1745 hours. He was driving the Range Rover and left me to go and pick Tony TUCKER up. Craig told me that he was going because he didn't want Tony to be in a position to say that he hadn't had any part in the arranging. I also understood that Craig was going to collect Tony TUCKER from his home and they were going to meet TATE and STEELE later. I did not have contact from Craig, TATE or TUCKER after this point.


Do you have any knowledge about the person she refers to as Peter Cuthbert?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 09, 2019, 09:29:36 AM
I think the police could have done a much, much better job of tracking the murdered trio along with Nicholls and those subsequently convicted of the murders during their last hours on planet earth and creating accurate timelines but for whatever reason(s) this does not appear to have happened.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 09, 2019, 10:18:40 AM
Donna Jagger's WS also refers to a Barry Doorman who it seems was a used car salesman  ?>)()< and former police officer along with being a good friend to Tate.  Doorman and his wife were part of the group who went over to Holland to assist bringing back the cash refund from supplier John Stone in respect of the dodgy cannabis.  According to Doorman all was well between Steele and Tait:

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2604343.stm

As I said previously I don't see the motive for Steele/Whomes to want to take out Tate let alone the others? 

Nicholls, Steele, Tate and Whomes all met in Hollesley Bay Prison:

Nicholls - Counterfeiting
Steele - Importing drugs (I believe)
Tate - Armed robbery
Whomes - Car fraud

Gravitating from the above to mass murder is a big leap.  I just don't see the motive?  And there's no evidence Steele/Whomes were violent.  Steele had a common law wife and lived close to his mother.  Whomes was a family man married with children whose family (mother, brother and sister) appear to have been very supportive during his long incarceration.  I'm sure there are some cases where such people from these sorts of background commit mass murder but all these little things along with the lack of evidence lead me to doubt the conviction.

I'm certainly not saying Steele/Whomes were not responsible but at the moment I'm not seeing the evidence and Nicholls account doesn't appear to stack up.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 09, 2019, 11:58:44 AM
Another reason I doubt the convictions is that the detective that led the investigation Det Supt Ivan Dibley sounds half-witted imo.  He comes out with daft statements like the trio knew their assassin(s) as they were found unarmed.  Clearly the assassin(s) may have relieved them of any firearm(s) so the fact they were found unarmed doesn't mean anything.  I will find the vid when I have time.

Meantime here he is driving his Volvo  8)><( along the A130  @ 9.30 in insisting this is the route the Range Rover took at approx 6pm which he has no evidence for.  Afaik the only cctv footage amounts to Rolfe's Range Rover leaving Lakeside at 6pm.  So how can the Range Rover be at 2 places miles apart at the same time?  Moreover if Donna Jagger and Nicholls are to be believed the Range Rover left Lakeside at 6pm (confirmed by CCTV footage).  It then went to collect Tucker in Fobbing  (Donna Jagger) (and it appears to collect Tate at Basildon?).  It then went to the Halfway House near Brentwood where Steele joined the murdered trio in the Range Rover for forward journey to Rettendon/Workhouse Lane (Nicholls).  According to AA route planner the journey from Halfway house to Rettendon would cross over the A130 so where's the evidence for the Range Rover travelling along the A130?  Numerous routes exist and it may have taken back roads.  In any event if Donna Jagger and Nicholls are to be believed the Range Rover wound not have arrived at Workhouse Lane until just gone 7pm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlqpePQYnck

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 09, 2019, 12:09:29 PM
What would be the reason for any of the 6 to head over to the Brentwood area? 

According to Nicholls he met with Steele and Whomes at Marks Tey.  This would sound about right as I believe at the time Nicholls was living in Braintree with Steele at Great Bentley and Jack Whomes (the only one who lived outside Essex) at Brockford, Suffolk.  Marks Tey would be the ideal meeting point for all 3 to travel down into Essex.  But assuming they were going to meet Rolfe who left Lakeside to collect Tucker from Fobbing (and Tate from Basildon) to recce a potential landing strip at Rettendon why would they all go out of their way to the Brentwood area to collect Steele to then go to Rettendon?   
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 09, 2019, 12:20:13 PM
https://www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk/news/17323965.essex-boys-murder-case-under-review-again/
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 09, 2019, 12:27:35 PM
What would be the reason for any of the 6 to head over to the Brentwood area? 

According to Nicholls he met with Steele and Whomes at Marks Tey.  This would sound about right as I believe at the time Nicholls was living in Braintree with Steele at Great Bentley and Jack Whomes (the only one who lived outside Essex) at Brockford, Suffolk.  Marks Tey would be the ideal meeting point for all 3 to travel down into Essex.  But assuming they were going to meet Rolfe who left Lakeside to collect Tucker from Fobbing (and Tate from Basildon) to recce a potential landing strip at Rettendon why would they all go out of their way to the Brentwood area to collect Steele to then go to Rettendon?

My guess is that the Halfway House near Brentwood was factored in as it showed up on Tate's mobile phone records:

At 17.03 a call was made from a telephone kiosk near The Halfway House public house on the A127 to Tate's mobile phone.

I've extracted the above from the following under the telephone evidence:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

According to Nicholls he was due to meet Steele (and Whomes) at Marks Tey at 5pm.  The Halfway House and Marks Tey are at opposite ends of the county. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 10, 2019, 11:49:06 AM
It seems Steele had criminal convictions going back as far as 1964 but afaik he was not a violent person?

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5530664.wife-of-convicted-rettendon-killer-speaks-out/

Summary

For:

- Whomes in the vicinity of Rettendon.  He provided a story about collecting a broken down vehicle from Nicholls.  This seems somewhat of a coincidence but coincidences do happen!  For this to sound convincing it would need padding out because their respective homes and places of work are not in this area.  Maybe they were in the vicinity to complete a drug deal with the murdered trio but had no involvement with the murders.  They were then in a catch 22 situation ie if they were truthful as to the real reason for their whereabouts they would face charges for drug dealing and/or they were potentially putting themselves in the frame for murder anyway.

Against:

- Afaik Steele/Whomes were not known to be aggressive/violent by nature?  Previous convictions did not involve any sort of violence?

- By all accounts there wasn't any animosity between the two groups.  The duff cannabis deal had been sorted to everyone's satisfaction.  What motive did Steele/Whomes have to murder Rolfe/Tait/Tucker?  These people appear to have been partners in crime and socialised together. 

- Police investigation seems poor.  According to a crimewatch programme Rolfe's Range Rover was recorded on CCTV leaving Lakeside @ 6pm.  What about CCTV recording the Range Rover thereafter?  And/or other vehicles/locations referred to?

-  There's no forensic/scientific evidence for times of deaths.  Approx 7pm seems to have been arrived at based on Sarah's Saunders call to Tait at approx 6.45pm which lasted some 4 mins and the calls between Nicholls and Whomes at just before 7pm.

- Where's the evidence that the murdered trio were at the found location to view a potential airstrip for a drugs drop?  It seems to me this location may well have been chosen on the basis of its close proximity to farmer Peter Theobald's shooting range ie sound of gunshot not out of the ordinary.

- The emphasis on the phone calls is very much on Sarah Saunder's call to Tate and the calls between Nicholls and Whomes.  What about the mobile calls between Steel and Whomes at 18.03 and 18.09?  Which cells/masts were these routed through?  Does the geographic location add or detract to their involvement in the murders?

- The accounts of Nicholls and Donna Jagger don't seem to add up in terms of journey times.

- Nicholls had a history of dishonesty with a previous conviction for counterfeiting.  He was in the frame for murder and/or drug dealing.  Either way he was potentially facing a long custodial sentence. 

- Nicholls relationship with DC Bird (not the DC Bird involved in JB's case) was described by the CoA as a corrupt one. 

- Nicholls was a police informant turned supergrass.

- Were Nicholls, Steele and Whomes in the vicinity to a complete a drugs deal with the murdered trio but not responsible for the murders? 

- No forensic evidence at soc by way of footprints, tyre tracks on what would have been muddy lanes.  According to Whomes mother the only footprint found was a size 7 and Whomes is a size 11.  A size 7 sounds more like a female.

- What would be the reason for Steele supposedly to join the murdered trio in the Range Rover at the Halfway House when this location is in the complete opposite direction to what Donna Jagger claimed?  And does not fit the geography. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 11, 2019, 10:59:47 AM
The following is a recording of Tucker's last tel messages left on his mobile.  It would seem they are in reverse order ie the earliest at the end of the recording.  The reason I say this is that by all accounts the murdered trio had a table booked for 8pm at a restaurant in Romford for themselves and their respective girlfriends.  It seems the first message on the answering machine (at end of recording @ 4.45) is from Tucker's girlfriend, Anna, letting him know she's ready which would probably be around 7pm - 7.30pm.  It appears as though the call was taken but he was unable to respond?  She sounds thoroughbred Essex girl and says something like..."He put the fcuking phone down..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs

She then calls again and leaves a message telling him she's ready, for the night out I assume.  She then makes numerous further calls throughout the night and the following day stating she thinks he's dead!

If this call was answered albeit he didn't respond nearer 7.30pm this would severely dent the prosecution case against Steele and Whomes.  The case against them, based on Nicholls testimony, is that the calls to Nicholls mobile from Whomes just before 7pm were to signal Nicholls and the getaway car.  Maybe this is the reason Nicholls said Steele turned up slightly later?

Tucker was found with his mobile in his hand.  One caller left a message stating Tucker's mother had been in touch in an attempt to discover his home number so I think its safe to assume his mobile was his means of communicating with others.

There's also 2 calls from a Micky (Steel?) which appear to have been made the following day ie 7th Dec. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 12, 2019, 06:14:41 AM
Detective HG, you might have already seen this. No bull... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx68pvpGK2c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx68pvpGK2c)

And some others... https://www.youtube.com/user/Jon54605/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/Jon54605/videos)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 12, 2019, 11:30:19 AM
Detective HG, you might have already seen this. No bull... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx68pvpGK2c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx68pvpGK2c)

And some others... https://www.youtube.com/user/Jon54605/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/Jon54605/videos)

Thanks Myster  8((()*/

As a child I did want to be a police officer.  I'm not sure if it was watching Dixon of Dock Green or reading the Secret Seven that got me interested but I have a feeling it was one or both!

I've listened to the first one.  I'll listen to the others when I have time. 

Tucker was a former soldier so I very much doubt he would need Steele to navigate him to a lane on his own turf. His home in Fobbing is some 11.1 miles from Rettendon.  Steele's home in Great Bentley is some 39.5 miles from Rettendon.

The witnesses were obviously trying to be helpful but given the site is a farm hosting various outdoor pursuits eg fishing and shooting Range Rovers would be commonplace. 

The last witness was the most interesting.  She said the farm shop sold hay.  By all accounts Tucker had a horse(s) at Longwood Stables in Dry Street, Basildon so he may well have visited for hay.  In the tel messages above his girlfriend Anna refers to 'being back from the stables' which struck me as odd given the time would have been late and it was winter ie dark.  Coupled with the fact she was 'ready' to go out for a meal at a restaurant.  Were the stables used and/or horses to store drugs and ferry them around via fields and country lanes?

According to a book written by Bernard O'Mahoney (an associate of Tucker's) Steel's wife, Jackie Steele, and Tait's former partner, Sarah Saunders, both kept horses at Longwood Stables so the idea these people had no knowledge of such a location is imo nonsense.  There appear to be a number of Equestrian Centres very close to the murder scene.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 12, 2019, 11:43:30 AM
The following is a recording of Tucker's last tel messages left on his mobile.  It would seem they are in reverse order ie the earliest at the end of the recording.  The reason I say this is that by all accounts the murdered trio had a table booked for 8pm at a restaurant in Romford for themselves and their respective girlfriends.  It seems the first message on the answering machine (at end of recording @ 4.45) is from Tucker's girlfriend, Anna, letting him know she's ready which would probably be around 7pm - 7.30pm.  It appears as though the call was taken but he was unable to respond?  She sounds thoroughbred Essex girl and says something like..."He put the fcuking phone down..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs

She then calls again and leaves a message telling him she's ready, for the night out I assume.  She then makes numerous further calls throughout the night and the following day stating she thinks he's dead!

If this call was answered albeit he didn't respond nearer 7.30pm this would severely dent the prosecution case against Steele and Whomes.  The case against them, based on Nicholls testimony, is that the calls to Nicholls mobile from Whomes just before 7pm were to signal Nicholls and the getaway car.  Maybe this is the reason Nicholls said Steele turned up slightly later?

Tucker was found with his mobile in his hand.  One caller left a message stating Tucker's mother had been in touch in an attempt to discover his home number so I think its safe to assume his mobile was his means of communicating with others.

There's also 2 calls from a Micky (Steel?) which appear to have been made the following day ie 7th Dec.

At 3.15 Tucker's girlfriend Anna calls (she was due to go out with him for a meal in Romford table booked for 8pm) she says something like its quarter past eleven and 'I'm home from the stables' or 'I haven't heard from the stables'?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 12, 2019, 01:32:14 PM
At 3.15 Tucker's girlfriend Anna calls (she was due to go out with him for a meal in Romford table booked for 8pm) she says something like its quarter past eleven and 'I'm home from the stables' or 'I haven't heard from the stables'?
Sounds like - "The time's now quarter past eleven" (am. ?)... "I've just got home from Staples" (the stationer in Chelmsford if she worked or shopped there?)

Thay don't 'arf tawk fannay darn sarf!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: APRIL on January 12, 2019, 03:16:05 PM
Sounds like - "The time's now quarter past eleven" (am. ?)... "I've just got home from Staples" (the stationer in Chelmsford if she worked or shopped there?)

Thay don't 'arf tawk fannay darn sarf!


We don't all inhabit the set of "Eastenders", Myster ?{)(**
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Caroline on January 12, 2019, 04:08:49 PM
I don't have the time or inclination to 'investigate' new cases but I started dipping into this one over a year ago as I see it as a sideways move from WHF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxcDTUMLQJI

I find common themes between the two cases and I am interested in understanding more about the world of illegal drugs. 

I agree they were/are drug dealing s..m but the point is are Steele and Whomes (also drug dealing s..m) actually responsible for the murders?   If not they need to receive sentences appropriate for their drug dealing offences and the perp(s) of the murders need holding to account with Nicholls (also drug dealing s..m) held to account for his drug dealing offences and perverting the course of justice.

I can't believe that you are pursuing the notion that Nevil Bamber was growing drugs for the illegal drugs market.

 *&^^&
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 13, 2019, 08:14:06 AM

We don't all inhabit the set of "Eastenders", Myster ?{)(**
There are exceptions of course, APRIL... as I've personally witnessed.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 13, 2019, 07:52:44 PM
Sounds like - "The time's now quarter past eleven" (am. ?)... "I've just got home from Staples" (the stationer in Chelmsford if she worked or shopped there?)

Thay don't 'arf tawk fannay darn sarf!

About as easy to decipher as DS Jones in the 'Killing Mum and Dad' vid!

Maybe you're just a snob thinking someone with such an accent doesn't or shouldn't have access to horses and stables and working at Staples sounds more fitting! 

I doubt she is referring to Staples as I believe the time she is referring to is quarter past eleven (23.15).  The reason I say this is that by all accounts the murdered trio and their respective girlfriends were due to eat at a restaurant in Romford at 8pm.  Romford being a half hour drive from Tucker's home in Fobbing.  As I said up thread I believe the phone messages are in reverse order with the first the most recent meaning her second message (at the end of the recording) refers to being ready ie for the meal.  She then makes numerous further calls throughout the night and into the next day ie at the beginning of the recording. 

What's really interesting is that it sounds like the first message (at the end of the recording) was answered but no one spoke.  If this was much after 7pm it would severely dent the prosecution case against Steele and Whomes as the case against them is that they murdered the trio before 7pm and then swiftly left the soc.  Tucker was found with his phone in hand with his gsw's immediately fatal.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 13, 2019, 07:58:42 PM
I can't believe that you are pursuing the notion that Nevil Bamber was growing drugs for the illegal drugs market.

 *&^^&

I don't believe I've ever said NB was growing drugs but no one can explain the opium poppies growing at WHF.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 13, 2019, 08:49:46 PM
There appears to be a dearth of info re the ballistics in this case. 

Maybe its just a visual perception thing but looking at images of the Range Rover down the lane to my eye/mind it doesn't appear to afford the perp(s) an opportunity of shooting through the side windows without getting caught up in the hedges?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 14, 2019, 12:13:23 PM
Audio Tape Recording Transcription of Telephone Mailbox Messages of Tony Tucker

Audio Tape Recording Transcription of Telephone Mailbox Messages from Mailbox No. 276603194

You have 26 messages; -

1
0.17
Hi Tony, this is Homes Building, please ring Derek Tyler on Leeds 0113 284 3553. Thank you.

2
0.34
Hi, I don't know if you're there erm. I ring up about the wages erm, can you give me a ring at home, OK, cheers, bye.

3
0.52
Tony, it's only me yet again, I just thought I'd ring you up, can you ring me as soon as you can. Bye.

4
1.00
Tone, it's Mary, can you ring me, it's really important. I need to to talk to you, really important, now, thanks, bye.

5
1.10
Tone, can you ring me when you get in please, bye.

6
1.17
Hi Tone, it's only me, can you give us a ring when you get back or when you read your messages. Bye.

7
1.27
Tone, it's Cole, can you give us a ring at Lynne's, cheers mate.

8
1.34
Tone, can you ring us back cause he's dead (ASKS 'A THIRD PARTY 'what does he also say' REPLY 'he's worried') we're worried, will you ring us straight back as soon as you can.

9
1.46
Tony, it's Jane and Ronnie here, can you give us a call please, 01303 245977 as soon as possible

10
2.00
Allo Tone, it's Pete, your mum? been after your house telephone number, can you ring her and let her know what it is. See you later

11
2.13
Hello Tone, could you ring me, it's Bill. 12 2.23 For god's sake Tone, phone me (crying) Speak to you later. Bye.

13
2.33
Hello Tone, give us a ring mate, it's Mickey

14
2.40
Hello Tone, give us a ring mate. Mickey.

15
2.48
Hi, only me, erm Tone, when you listen to your messages could you ring me please, we're worried sick at the moment. Speak to you later Bye

16
3.00
Hi, it's only me, erm, time's nearly five past.. still haven't heard from you Can you just give us a ring please to let us know you're alright, cause at the moment I think your dead It's just said on the tele that there's three men in range rover, we think it's you Bye

17
3.20
Hello Tone, it's Ian, can you give us a ring please

18
3.28
Hi ya, only me, erm the time's now a quarter to one, I still haven't heard from you, could you just give me a ring please round mums to let me know that you're alright Speak to you later. Bye

19
3.42
Hi, only me, erm, the time's now Quarter past eleven, erm, I've just got home from the stables, what was I going to say. erm erm, just thought I give you a ring cause I haven't heard from ya, er, you either are alright or your not, but I wouldn't know really cause your phone's off Alright then, so I will try and catch up with you later on Bye.

20
4.06
Yer, can you ring Bernie please.

21
4.12
Tony, hi it's Paul Shavell here, it's erm nine o'clock can you delay the pick up of erm, your equipment, erm until about erm say about 12 o'clock today, cause we're going to be working on it until then, it's going to be a couple of hours I'll speak to you later, I'm at work 5156644, cheerio

22
4.35
Hello babe, it's me, give us a ring when you get a minute, bye

23
4.41
Hi, Tone, it's Mary, just to let you know Chris is home so if you're going to ring up don't bother about Willowbrook, he's at home with me Speak to you soon Bye

24
4.53
Hello babe, give us a ring and let me know how you're getting on, I'm all ready now Bye

25
4.59
Hi babe, only me, erm, can you give me a ring round the flat, the flat what I used to be in remember 557679 yes, ring me straight away ye, right speak to you in a minute If not, come round my other flat, I'm round Joy's at the moment, but come round the flat. I'll be here for the next about 15 minutes. Right then, speak to you in a minute Bye

26
5.18
SOUND OF PHONE RINGING
5.25

5.26
Hello, hello, tut, put the f..king phone down Di, hello, (VOICE OF DI?) don't know (IN REPLY TO Dl?)

You have no more messages, read messages will be deleted after 12 hours To replay and delete your messages individually, key 2, to replay all messages, key 92.
END
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 14, 2019, 12:25:02 PM
07/12/07 - Press Release on behalf of Michael John Steele
Christopher Lawrence Bowen Solicitor for Michael John Steele

PRESS RELEASE ON BEHALF OF MICHAEL JOHN STEELE
RE: 12TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE DISCOVERY OF THE RANGE ROVER MURDERS, RETTENDON, ESSEX, ENGLAND.
(EMBARGO LASTS UNTIL 05.00 ON 7TH DECEMBER 2007)

Today, it is 12 years to the date, since the discovery in Rettendon of the blue Range Rover containing the bodies of Patrick Tate, Anthony Tucker and Craig Rolfe.

During the trial (01/09/97 to 20/01/98), the prosecution claimed that two members of the public discovered the Range Rover at about 8 a.m.

The jury never heard that at 6.30 a.m. on 7th December 1995, Detective Superintendent David Bright of Essex Police received a telephone call from a Detective Constable then serving on the Drug Squad informing him that three men had been found shot dead in a Range Rover in Rettendon and that it was a gangland style killing.

This information was recorded in a witness statement provided by David Bright to Hertfordshire Police (over 6 years after the end of the trial during the first Criminal Cases Review Commission review of the case). The failure of the prosecuting authorities to disclose this information prior to the trial (in accordance with their obligations) misled the jury about how the police first learned of the murders.

If the three deceased were not under surveillance on 6th and 7th December 1995, how is it that Superintendent Bright knew of the murders approximately one and a half hours prior to the two witnesses who the jury were told discovered the Range Rover at about 8 a.m.?

A number of pertinent questions need to be answered urgently. They include:

1.   Who really first discovered the bodies of Messrs Tate, Tucker and Rolfe?
2.   When?
3.   In what circumstances?
4.   Why was it that the scene was not already sealed off by police before 8 a.m.?
5.   Which Essex Police Drug Squad officer telephoned David Bright?
6.   Why was Superintendent Bright’s knowledge of this call never revealed to the defence prior to trial?

Christopher Lawrence Bowen Solicitor for Michael John Steele
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 14, 2019, 01:01:26 PM
07/12/07 - Press Release on behalf of Michael John Steele
Christopher Lawrence Bowen Solicitor for Michael John Steele

PRESS RELEASE ON BEHALF OF MICHAEL JOHN STEELE
RE: 12TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE DISCOVERY OF THE RANGE ROVER MURDERS, RETTENDON, ESSEX, ENGLAND.
(EMBARGO LASTS UNTIL 05.00 ON 7TH DECEMBER 2007)

Today, it is 12 years to the date, since the discovery in Rettendon of the blue Range Rover containing the bodies of Patrick Tate, Anthony Tucker and Craig Rolfe.

During the trial (01/09/97 to 20/01/98), the prosecution claimed that two members of the public discovered the Range Rover at about 8 a.m.

The jury never heard that at 6.30 a.m. on 7th December 1995, Detective Superintendent David Bright of Essex Police received a telephone call from a Detective Constable then serving on the Drug Squad informing him that three men had been found shot dead in a Range Rover in Rettendon and that it was a gangland style killing.

This information was recorded in a witness statement provided by David Bright to Hertfordshire Police (over 6 years after the end of the trial during the first Criminal Cases Review Commission review of the case). The failure of the prosecuting authorities to disclose this information prior to the trial (in accordance with their obligations) misled the jury about how the police first learned of the murders.

If the three deceased were not under surveillance on 6th and 7th December 1995, how is it that Superintendent Bright knew of the murders approximately one and a half hours prior to the two witnesses who the jury were told discovered the Range Rover at about 8 a.m.?

A number of pertinent questions need to be answered urgently. They include:

1.   Who really first discovered the bodies of Messrs Tate, Tucker and Rolfe?
2.   When?
3.   In what circumstances?
4.   Why was it that the scene was not already sealed off by police before 8 a.m.?
5.   Which Essex Police Drug Squad officer telephoned David Bright?
6.   Why was Superintendent Bright’s knowledge of this call never revealed to the defence prior to trial?

Christopher Lawrence Bowen Solicitor for Michael John Steele
Police surveillance - man in a balaclava?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOTnhWRE18g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOTnhWRE18g)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 14, 2019, 01:20:07 PM
19
3.42
Hi, only me, erm, the time's now Quarter past eleven, erm, I've just got home from the stables, what was I going to say. erm erm, just thought I give you a ring cause I haven't heard from ya, er, you either are alright or your not, but I wouldn't know really cause your phone's off Alright then, so I will try and catch up with you later on Bye.
TY sika... I thought it might have been Staples because in the actual voice recording she didn't use definite article 'the' before stables, i.e. "I've just got home from stables", unlike the written transcript you posted above.

It turns out that Tony Tucker did own some stables, hence his girlfriend's reference to them.

https://youtu.be/YGpxqhR1PYs?t=190 (https://youtu.be/YGpxqhR1PYs?t=190)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 14, 2019, 01:39:24 PM
There appears to be a dearth of info re the ballistics in this case. 

Maybe its just a visual perception thing but looking at images of the Range Rover down the lane to my eye/mind it doesn't appear to afford the perp(s) an opportunity of shooting through the side windows without getting caught up in the hedges?

A sawn-off shotgun fired from the right side leaves more room than you think...

(https://i.imgur.com/Hidilc5.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/05bQA11.png)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 14, 2019, 03:52:55 PM
You might find it useful to have your photographs with you members of the jury. 2.7 is the view looking at the front of the Range Rover. On the far left you can see the blue cartridges though they are clearer seen in other photographs. The driver was sitting in a normal position with his head leaning on his left shoulder. You can see that. The front passenger had his chin on his chest. There was a third person sitting in the back that you can see from other photographs. Sitting slightly slumped, leaning forwards against the nearside passenger window with his head against the window which was actually smashed.

Mr Knights walked around the rear of the vehicle and stood at the rear nearside corner and saw a blue shotgun cartridge on the ground outside the rear passenger door. You can see that in photograph 9. That is the rear nearside passenger door. He could see the large wound clearly visible in the rear passenger's head which was leaning against the broken window. After a brief conversation with Sergeant Atkins it was Knights that was left by the scene by the others. Sergeant Atkins went to call for assistance from other police and he stayed in a small turning off the track. It was his job to protect the scene (Mr Parkins asked him, and he agreed in cross-examination) and make sure nobody approached until senior officers could assess the situation. He looked for a pattern of anyone walking down the lane but there were no signs except for the vehicle going down. There were points to indicate people had been up to the scene. Atkins and he were very careful not to disturb anything and not to let things be trodden on. He tried not to tread on the footprints. His own boots were taken for testing and he would have expected any footwear of anyone who went near the vehicle to be taken to be tested. He was the first person there apart from the farmers. He could not define what footprints there were but they were in different directions around the vehicle. He could not define who made them. To the rear of the vehicle and on the off-side there were two marks he saw himself. He did not touch any cartridge case. He only noticed the three on the off-side and the one at the nearside. He got bomb tape from his vehicle and put it down to make a track on one side. Nobody wandered down the track. He was in the turning area and he did not see anyone where he was.

He looked at other photographs. You have them members of the jury. 10 you can see the cartridge case by the wheel, 11 likewise you can see two cartridge cases, 12 you can see one. 12 in fact is of course expanded on later and I will briefly refer to it when I move on in a minute or two. You know that 12 is Exhibit 34 which was an enlargement and was another enlargement of the same part of the scene but from a different angle which is now our Exhibit 108. 13 is the gate with its padlock. 15 is a view inside the car to show a door pocket. 16, if you would look now, is Exhibit 108 which you have in greater scale in what I am holding up.

He said he definitely would not of put his police boot near any cartridge that you see in those photographs. In re-examination he told you that as the snow was melting he informed the other officers further away what was happening. They were at the A130 end of the track. From his position nobody could come past without his seeing it. Nobody did, whether a member of the public or a reporter or whatever.

There for the first time, members of the jury, you have an insight as to what was happening in the investigation - it was starting from the far end of the track down at the A130 and it was Mr Knights who drew attention to the fact that the temperature was up because the snow was melting and things were changing.

Sergeant Christopher Atkins had come down the track with Mr Knights and had seen Mr Jiggins and Mr Theobald. When he looked at the Range Rover he saw no obvious snow on the roof and he saw the bodies. There was about an inch of snow on the track but no snow in front of vehicle. The windows were not iced up. He went from the back driver's side to the driver's window and then to the back and then down the passenger's side of the vehicle. He walked down the nearside and then went back to the track and he put tape across the track which you have seen and do not need to look at again in photograph 5. Then PC Morris joined him and they went down the track and kept a log of those attending at the A130.

He said in cross-examination it was in the middle of a cold spell and all vehicles out for a length of time would have had ice or snow on them. He had Doc Martins type boots but not Doc Martins with a block pattern. He said, "Once we were aware of what we'd got," meaning the sight he had found in the Range Rover, "we were very careful where we put our feet." There was quite a covering of snow at that time, about an inch. Foot marks can be a valuable assistance. He walked halfway down the nearside of the car and did not remember any cartridge case on that nearside. He would have recorded it if he had. He was taking great care bearing in mind what he was looking at. He said there are a thousand and one things on his mind when he was looking inside the vehicle.

You remember Dr. Janki Persaud who was the police surgeon. He first attended the scene at 9.30, but he did not see much then because he was kept back from the vehicle. He said it was a cold day and there was snow to about the thickness of a centimeter when he first arrived and frost on the ground. Overcast weather. He went nowhere near the scene on his first visit, but did so when he returned at 11.30 when he was escorted to the driver's side of the vehicle. He saw empty cartridges on the ground on the offside which was the side from which he approached the vehicle. He was asked not to contaminate the scene by touching anything. He saw the bodies of the three men. He described the injuries he saw which were afterwards more clearly described by the pathologist and so I will save the description for then.

He saw that the glass from the nearside window was shattered. He thought that the gun shot wounds appeared to have caused massive disruptions to the skulls of the three victims and he certified them as dead.

In cross-examination he said he walked behind Superintendent Disley to the scene. Mr Disley guided him. He actually saw four cartridge cases. He thought those were on the offside of the vehicle, but he did not count them and he could not remember how many there were really. He was clear in his mind that he saw one cartridge case away from vehicle. He produced his little diagram, Exhibit 100 at page 100 which is not to scale - there is no need to look at it now.

Then it was asked about the time of death. He said there are various methods to ascertain the time of death which you needed to be an expert. It is fraught with difficulty. He did not take the body temperatures or take any active steps because there was a danger of contamination of the bodies by taking temperatures. He did not know what an expert would do to estimate the time of death and he did not make his own estimate.

DC Peter King attended the scene about twenty to eleven and took a number of the photographs we have just been looking at which were all marked PLK, his initials. He did not take the first five in our bundle.

At 7.45 in the evening at the scenes of crime garage at South Woodham Ferrers Police Station he took further photographs showing the three deceased inside the vehicle. The next day he took a series of post-mortem photographs during the post-mortem of each of the accused. You have got those further photographs further on, members of the jury, from 18 onwards. You have seen them before and they got added to one by one as questions were asked in cross-examination. I need not refer you to any of them at this stage.

When we get to cross-examination he was asked to look at photograph 25. He said that no cartridge was apparent near the front passenger door. You remember that this as a reference to Exhibit 7 if you turn to the exhibit bundle for the moment. I shall try not to get you to hold two volumes in front of you as I go through this, but it may not be possible I am afraid. At page 7 of the exhibit bundle you will remember that the original drawing of Inspector Huges had what is clearly accepted as a mistake on the left-hand side of the Range Rover in that the two cartridge cases on the left-hand side were not in the position shown in Exhibit 7 but were in the position shown in 7 (a) You have got that. Nothing was by the front passenger door but there were two level with what would be the boot on the near side. He was asked to look at the difference in shading in the two photographs that you have here, Exhibit 34 and Exhibit 108. I will hold them up so that you do not have to rummage for them. There are A's and B's on them, members ef the jury, and you can see one is darker than the other, but you can also see in the enlargement that these are positions which look like the prints at various places as I indicated.

He said 108 was a lot closer than 34, less light on 108, but he was using flash in his camera. There are stud marks in Exhibit 34. The mark A on 108 could be a bend. He took 108 at a later time. 34 was originally 212 in your album; 108 was 216. He thought there was a cartridge found further to the back behind the nearside wheel and not in 34. As far as he could recall there was another cartridge further back. He had not drawn the diagram and had nothing to do with it. It would be wrong to remove the cartridge from where it was to somewhere else.

He had been asked to photograph the interior of the vehicle and he did photograph the interior of the vehicle. He could not remember that there was no cartridge all in the rear footwell in 54 and 61, but then he looked at them and of course you have seen those photographs and as you know there is no cartridge in 54 or in the other photograph 61. There were shown in those photographs a crisp bag and 61 might show some wadding. He said that the deceased were removed from the vehicle and then he took the photographs that you have been looking at taken at South Woodham Ferrers that night. He saw no reason why a cartridge should be removed. There was no photograph anywhere of the cartridge and it should have been in the footwell.

He said that photograph 17 was beyond the Range Rover as you approached it and 18 was taken on a rise behind the photographer. He said common sense would tell you that there would be an air of disturbance but there was not. 112 was the original of photograph 17. You also have an enlargement of that, 17. 112 was the enlargement. There were no foot prints there. He would say there were no foot prints that he could see in 112. I will break off there until 11.50.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 14, 2019, 03:55:14 PM
JUDGE HIDDEN: We come to the forensic scientist John Burns. He has been a forensic scientist since 1966 and has worked exclusively in that time in examination of firearms since 1977. He works at the laboratory at Huntingdon and is an (inaudible) chemist. He did a threefold examination: the scene first, then the garage at South Woodham Ferrers police station and then the post-mortem. The scene is shown in photograph 7 of two that you have seen already and in 7(a) which was the corrected sketch which I asked you to look at just now. He examined the scene with Inspector Hughes and Dr Lannas who you remember was the lady pathologist who attended who I will remind you of in a moment.

The Range Rover was at the end of the farm track, as Mr Burns described it, it was fringed by bushes and small trees. Blood had dripped from the vehicle particularly on the nearside and run downwards in puddles of water towards the farm gate. There were five 12-bore cartridges on the ground by the vehicle - one near the front off-side wheel, two some three feet from the vehicle's mid-point on the off-side and two in the region of the nearside rear corner. So that is the position which is in fact shown on Exhibit 7 (a) which I am just holding up so you can see it. The dots are there. The three deceased were in the positions that he described. The rear nearside window of the door had the rear portion fallen out. The vehicle was taken to the police garage for further examination. Removal of the bodies revealed they had all three suffered head injuries consistent with being caused by a shotgun. Those are the head injuries that he mentioned, the further shotgun wound observed in the right side of Tate's torso. He spoke of blood splattering on the inside of the vehicle and of close range shotgun damage from within 2 feet, he put it, caused to the front off-side edge of the driver's head rest. You remember seeing that in a photograph. It was consistent, that damage, with the pellets continuing on their course and causing injury to the driver, Rolfe's, head or face. There were two fired shotgun cases in the vehicle - one on the floor near the rear off-side door, and the other in the front off-side door pocket. You saw a photograph of a little earlier.

There were fragments of plastic cartridge wadding present and several pellets in various areas of the front of the vehicle. He spoke of the gun shot wounds to each of the passengers saying those to Tucker were at close range from 18 inches to 2 foot 6. The cartridge cases all came from seven 12-bore vantage cartridges with a loading of seven and a half size shot lead shot. Then importantly he examined the firing marks on all of those cartridges microscopically and was satisfied that all seven were fired using the same firearm which he said was almost certainly a pump-action or self- loading 12-bore shotgun. The wads and pieces of wadding were derived from 7 plastic wads of the type that is loaded into 12 bore vantage shotgun cartridges and thus could have emanated from those 7 cases.

The sample of hair from Tate, the back seat passenger, indicated that the shot which caused the injury to his head, the actual injury, had actually passed through glass prior to causing the injury. The only broken glass was of course on the nearside.

He concluded that 8 shots from a 12-bore shotgun appeared to have been fired at the scene: 2 into the right hand side of Tucker, the front passenger, 1 into the back of his head; 2 into the right side of the head and face of Rolfe, the driver; and 3 at the rear passenger Tate - 1 into the right torso, 1 across back of the head and 1 into the left side of the head. He thought that most of the shots appeared to have been fired from close range through the open rear off-side door of the vehicle. One of the shots to the head and face of Rolfe having first passed through the right hand corner of the driver's head rest as you see in the photograph. The shot fired across the head of Tate appeared to have passed through the glass on the rear nearside door. The shot into his head appeared to be fired from the nearside of the vehicle through the same glass. The angle of the shot into his right torso suggested that he was in a position similar to where he was found when the shot was fired. All 7 cartridge cases had been fired using the same weapon; probably a pump or self-loading gun having a large capacity magazine. He could not discount the use of a gun with a lesser magazine capacity, that that would have required reloading. The likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired wads suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel. It was not possible to state with any certainty what order the shots were fired in, but then he made an assumption -- not particularly scientific you may think, and he said that later -- it was a reasonable assumption that one shot was fired at each victim in turn before the other shots were fired. He said from the relaxed positions of the deceased three it appeared to have happened very rapidly. There was not time for special movement or something to move them from their comfortable positions. He told you a bit more about the positions later on.

Then he moved to tell you about how a shotgun is fired. Some of you may have known already and some may not. He said a shotgun cartridge is fired by the bottom half inch of the cartridge containing the propellant and the base being fitted with a primer in the centre which was of soft metal. If the primer was struck a very sharp blow the chemicals ignite and those chemicals in the primer ignite the main propellant. It is the firing pin that causes the sharp blow. Different weapons leave different marks. The pump action has a single barrel with a magazine below it and a wooden (inaudible). The mechanism of an ordinary shotgun as opposed to a self-loading or pump was that you loaded a cartridge from a magazine into the chamber by pulling to the rear and then back to the front. The self-loading was very similar but this time with a tubular magazine. He said in this case of a self loading gun or a pump gun the energy from the discharge was used to transfer the cartridge into the chamber - one was ejected and one was transferred.

As to the ejection of a cartridge in each case he said for a pump-action you get quite a variable distance. That is a variable distance on how far the ejected case is thrown. The longest being between 5 and 6 feet, but sometimes the cartridge would just drop out of the gun. In the self-loading gun there would be a little difference but there is a tendency for the cartridges to eject somewhat further.

As to the damage to Tate's head he said he thought the offside shot struck Tate's head first before striking the window, but the other nearside shot into the head was fired through some of the glass in the window.

Then he moved entirely from everything he had been saying before, and I cannot make that distinction more clear, onto the shotgun found at Meadow Cottage, Exhibit 1O3. He said that was a Mossberg New Haven 600 18, 12-bore pump-action shotgun in working order subject to the requirements of Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968. You have heard the admission that it is a firearm governed by the Act.

Cross-examined by Mr Parkins Mr Burn said this: he agreed that a defence expert, a doctor at Remshore, was experienced in the field of firearms and had attended at Mr Burn's laboratory on 19th August 1997 being afforded all facilities there, and there was nothing between the two experts except for one or two details. Having heard anything about those details they clearly are not important. Mr Burns said that whoever carried out the killing it was a reasonable assumption that they were well versed in the use of such a shotgun. It happened very quickly, probably so quickly the two in front did not have time to appreciate what was going on. The suggestion he had made that each deceased received a disabling shot before the other shot was his opinion based on the findings of the scene. There would be a very loud noise and a total of 8 shots. He would expect a rapid succession and anyone hearing the shots would hear a quick succession of discharges. They could be heard for a distance certainly greater than a mile. Whether someone would hear any whimpering would depend on how quickly the shots came. There would be a gap between the shots.

He had arrived at the scene at five minutes to midday. He went into the field and there was some tyre marks which had led through the gate at some time, but all he could say was there was some tyre marks there. He never saw a spent cartridge in the position on the nearside in diagram 7. He turned to diagram 7(a), the diagram that Mr Bettis had remarked from Mr Hughes' diagram, and he said 7 (a) was in general the position where he himself had found the cases. There was a foot mark visible possibly at the open door. Most shots were discharged from the rear off-side door. Hughes' diagram correctly shows Tate's position. Rolfe had a wound at the side of his face. Then he was asked about the possibility of Tate's head being turned to his right and he said this: Mr Burns could not exclude that Tate's head was turned to the right as the shot was fired and he tended to support the view that his head was somewhat to the right. He was asked about the grazes on Tate's head and he said this: he did not think he could entirely exclude the possibility that that round then went on to hurt Tucker, but having said that he said (although he could not entirely exclude the possibility) the three injuries to the head of Tucker did not show any dispersion of elements which he would expect if one shot had first gone across Tate's head, nor any deposits of blood and hair which he would expect. He said, "It is less likely, but I cannot exclude it." A pump-action gun ejects to the right.

He conducted an examination with scenes of crime officers who were present both before, during and after the removal of the bodies. Somebody had found a cartridge case in the floor well. He considered how it was found there. He excluded the shot from the nearside as getting there because that was very unlikely. If it ejected normally he could not explain the two cartridges found in the car. Hughes cannot agree entirely with the deposit of cartridges. He would normally only expect one cartridge case at the nearside. The angle of discharge to the right varies, and it just failed to go out through the opened rear door and fell into the front door pocket. He said if the gun is sufficiently far into the car the cartridge case would end up in the vehicle.

Turning to a different topic he said the seven and a half size is popular in clay pigeon shooting. He had examined a number of other weapons that had been brought in, several shot guns, none of which fired those cartridges. He examined a revolver and ammunition found at Tate's home address at Gordon Road, Basildon. The revolver was in working order and well capable of firing ammunition. There was also a machine gun from an address at Mill Green (?) Basildon -- you will remember that is the one in connection with Donna Evans that we shall hear about later -- and other weapons which he mentioned having examined. None of those other guns had fired the cartridges he examined.

He was at the post-mortem which was full and comprehensive. He was asked about the time of death. Again he did not come to getting any evidence of it. He said his own explanation would not indicate the time of death conclusively.

He would expect it to be the invariable practice for doctors to attempt to estimate the time of death. Tucker had 3 fatal wounds; Rolfe 2, certainly 1, maybe 2; and Tate 2 fatal wounds and 1 superficial. He could not discount the possibility that one of Tate's wounds went on after hitting him to hit Tucker. All the cartridge cases had got the same marks and they came from the same gun.

In re-examination he said there was no way for him to distinguish from the wounds themselves whether a long barrel or a short barrelled gun was used. That was being asked about wounds themselves could you tell, he had of course already said that the likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired (inaudible) suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.

He said the car door would be open when the majority of the shots were fired and the door would be an obstruction to the right. But the shot that grazed Tate's head to have gone on to hit Tucker, Tate's head would have had to be between the open door and Tucker. If a shot strikes a glancing blow the pellets would be disrupted. At close range the body of the shot goes in the same direction. If there is a glancing impact the pellet ceased to remain as a closed mass and become disturbed and there is no sign in the wound to Tucker of that. There is nothing to indicate any material from Tate's head in relation to what was found in Tucker's head. So that was his evidence in relation to the ballistics of wounds and the shots fired in and about in, that is the Range Rover. The cartridge case is found in and about the Range Rover.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 14, 2019, 10:28:37 PM
Audio Tape Recording Transcription of Telephone Mailbox Messages of Tony Tucker

Audio Tape Recording Transcription of Telephone Mailbox Messages from Mailbox No. 276603194

You have 26 messages; -

1
0.17
Hi Tony, this is Homes Building, please ring Derek Tyler on Leeds 0113 284 3553. Thank you.

2
0.34
Hi, I don't know if you're there erm. I ring up about the wages erm, can you give me a ring at home, OK, cheers, bye.

3
0.52
Tony, it's only me yet again, I just thought I'd ring you up, can you ring me as soon as you can. Bye.

4
1.00
Tone, it's Mary, can you ring me, it's really important. I need to to talk to you, really important, now, thanks, bye.

5
1.10
Tone, can you ring me when you get in please, bye.

6
1.17
Hi Tone, it's only me, can you give us a ring when you get back or when you read your messages. Bye.

7
1.27
Tone, it's Cole, can you give us a ring at Lynne's, cheers mate.

8
1.34
Tone, can you ring us back cause he's dead (ASKS 'A THIRD PARTY 'what does he also say' REPLY 'he's worried') we're worried, will you ring us straight back as soon as you can.

9
1.46
Tony, it's Jane and Ronnie here, can you give us a call please, 01303 245977 as soon as possible

10
2.00
Allo Tone, it's Pete, your mum? been after your house telephone number, can you ring her and let her know what it is. See you later

11
2.13
Hello Tone, could you ring me, it's Bill. 12 2.23 For god's sake Tone, phone me (crying) Speak to you later. Bye.

13
2.33
Hello Tone, give us a ring mate, it's Mickey

14
2.40
Hello Tone, give us a ring mate. Mickey.

15
2.48
Hi, only me, erm Tone, when you listen to your messages could you ring me please, we're worried sick at the moment. Speak to you later Bye

16
3.00
Hi, it's only me, erm, time's nearly five past.. still haven't heard from you Can you just give us a ring please to let us know you're alright, cause at the moment I think your dead It's just said on the tele that there's three men in range rover, we think it's you Bye

17
3.20
Hello Tone, it's Ian, can you give us a ring please

18
3.28
Hi ya, only me, erm the time's now a quarter to one, I still haven't heard from you, could you just give me a ring please round mums to let me know that you're alright Speak to you later. Bye

19
3.42
Hi, only me, erm, the time's now Quarter past eleven, erm, I've just got home from the stables, what was I going to say. erm erm, just thought I give you a ring cause I haven't heard from ya, er, you either are alright or your not, but I wouldn't know really cause your phone's off Alright then, so I will try and catch up with you later on Bye.

20
4.06
Yer, can you ring Bernie please.

21
4.12
Tony, hi it's Paul Shavell here, it's erm nine o'clock can you delay the pick up of erm, your equipment, erm until about erm say about 12 o'clock today, cause we're going to be working on it until then, it's going to be a couple of hours I'll speak to you later, I'm at work 5156644, cheerio

22
4.35
Hello babe, it's me, give us a ring when you get a minute, bye

23
4.41
Hi, Tone, it's Mary, just to let you know Chris is home so if you're going to ring up don't bother about Willowbrook, he's at home with me Speak to you soon Bye

24
4.53
Hello babe, give us a ring and let me know how you're getting on, I'm all ready now Bye

25
4.59
Hi babe, only me, erm, can you give me a ring round the flat, the flat what I used to be in remember 557679 yes, ring me straight away ye, right speak to you in a minute If not, come round my other flat, I'm round Joy's at the moment, but come round the flat. I'll be here for the next about 15 minutes. Right then, speak to you in a minute Bye

26
5.18
SOUND OF PHONE RINGING
5.25

5.26
Hello, hello, tut, put the f....ing phone down Di, hello, (VOICE OF DI?) don't know (IN REPLY TO Dl?)

You have no more messages, read messages will be deleted after 12 hours To replay and delete your messages individually, key 2, to replay all messages, key 92.
END

Thanks for all the info sika. 

Call 26 sounds to me like Tucker (or someone) accepted the call but for whatever reason didn't respond thus Anna was unable to leave a voice mail.  Call 25 sounds like Anna then called back straight away and left a message.  Then in call 24 she's telling him she's ready I assume for the restaurant booking in Romford at 8pm.  So call 24 is probably circa 7.30pm given Basildon is a 30 min drive to Romford. 

Call 21 I interpreted as Porsche.  Tucker had a Porsche which Tate had recently crashed.  I'm not sure what he's referring to by way of equipment.  He also says it's 9 o'clock and can you delay the collection of your equipment until 12 o'clock today.  Does he mean tomorrow rather than today? 

Call 19 I don't understand what she would be doing at the stables at 11.15pm?  Especially given she was expecting to go out to a restaurant for a meal booked at 8pm.  Unless because of the bad weather conditions ie snow she had to move the horses about? 

Call 13 and 14 'Mickey'?  Steele?

Call 8 I think the caller says 'its dad'.?

They sound pretty non-descript calls for a criminal/drug dealer?!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 14, 2019, 10:32:02 PM
I'm pretty sure it's not Mickey Steele.  It sounds nothing like him.  It could well be, 'mad Micky Bowman'.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 14, 2019, 10:34:20 PM
07/12/07 - Press Release on behalf of Michael John Steele
Christopher Lawrence Bowen Solicitor for Michael John Steele

PRESS RELEASE ON BEHALF OF MICHAEL JOHN STEELE
RE: 12TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE DISCOVERY OF THE RANGE ROVER MURDERS, RETTENDON, ESSEX, ENGLAND.
(EMBARGO LASTS UNTIL 05.00 ON 7TH DECEMBER 2007)

Today, it is 12 years to the date, since the discovery in Rettendon of the blue Range Rover containing the bodies of Patrick Tate, Anthony Tucker and Craig Rolfe.

During the trial (01/09/97 to 20/01/98), the prosecution claimed that two members of the public discovered the Range Rover at about 8 a.m.

The jury never heard that at 6.30 a.m. on 7th December 1995, Detective Superintendent David Bright of Essex Police received a telephone call from a Detective Constable then serving on the Drug Squad informing him that three men had been found shot dead in a Range Rover in Rettendon and that it was a gangland style killing.

This information was recorded in a witness statement provided by David Bright to Hertfordshire Police (over 6 years after the end of the trial during the first Criminal Cases Review Commission review of the case). The failure of the prosecuting authorities to disclose this information prior to the trial (in accordance with their obligations) misled the jury about how the police first learned of the murders.

If the three deceased were not under surveillance on 6th and 7th December 1995, how is it that Superintendent Bright knew of the murders approximately one and a half hours prior to the two witnesses who the jury were told discovered the Range Rover at about 8 a.m.?

A number of pertinent questions need to be answered urgently. They include:

1.   Who really first discovered the bodies of Messrs Tate, Tucker and Rolfe?
2.   When?
3.   In what circumstances?
4.   Why was it that the scene was not already sealed off by police before 8 a.m.?
5.   Which Essex Police Drug Squad officer telephoned David Bright?
6.   Why was Superintendent Bright’s knowledge of this call never revealed to the defence prior to trial?

Christopher Lawrence Bowen Solicitor for Michael John Steele

Is there any truth in the above or has someone simply got their wires crossed?  If the former I would say it would be pretty damning as footprints and other evidence may have been better preserved.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 14, 2019, 10:43:47 PM
Police surveillance - man in a balaclava?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOTnhWRE18g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOTnhWRE18g)

This reminds me of the so-called 'scruffy man' supposedly seen running away from WHF... 

It seems to me all these cases have a sort of bogey man lurking in the shadows eg the spotty man seen lurking around the McCann apartment. 

It was early evening, Dec, snowing and cold so I don't think a balaclava would be out of place.  If I'm walking or running along country lanes I often slow down to let cars pass to avoid getting hit! 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 14, 2019, 10:50:03 PM
A sawn-off shotgun fired from the right side leaves more room than you think...

(https://i.imgur.com/Hidilc5.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/05bQA11.png)

According to the info sika uploaded the expert seem to be of the opinion the shotgun was a long barrel:

In re-examination he said there was no way for him to distinguish from the wounds themselves whether a long barrel or a short barrelled gun was used. That was being asked about wounds themselves could you tell, he had of course already said that the likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired (inaudible) suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 14, 2019, 10:55:09 PM
I noticed in one of the vids Myster uploaded a soc officer by the name of DC Hammersley was referred to.  I wonder if this is the same DC Hammersley who featured at another WHF!?

Interesting case. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 06:25:41 AM
According to the info sika uploaded the expert seem to be of the opinion the shotgun was a long barrel:

In re-examination he said there was no way for him to distinguish from the wounds themselves whether a long barrel or a short barrelled gun was used. That was being asked about wounds themselves could you tell, he had of course already said that the likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired (inaudible) suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.
So I noticed, but my post preceded sika's transcript.  My knowledge of this case is poor so bear with me.

Were all the victims shot through the offside rear door?  Whilst it was opened or through its opened window?  Whoever did the deed must have been an accomplished marksman to get three fairly accurate headshots on target in split seconds, before any of them had a chance to react... other than Tucker and Rolfe at the front turning their heads to the right to see what was happening if Tate on the rear seat was shot first. The rigid forward-pointing heads in the drawing are misleading, I think.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 06:31:37 AM
Were either Steele or Whomes proficient with firearms?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 06:36:35 AM
I noticed in one of the vids Myster uploaded a soc officer by the name of DC Hammersley was referred to.  I wonder if this is the same DC Hammersley who featured at another WHF!?

Interesting case.
Most likely.  What chance of two different officers having the same name and rank at the same period?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 06:44:31 AM
I'm pretty sure it's not Mickey Steele.  It sounds nothing like him.  It could well be, 'mad Micky Bowman'.
This one, of no fixed address?    https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/dewsbury-duo-who-opened-fire-at-drug-deal-house-jailed-for-32-years-1-5249480 (https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/dewsbury-duo-who-opened-fire-at-drug-deal-house-jailed-for-32-years-1-5249480)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 08:08:50 AM
This one, of no fixed address?    https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/dewsbury-duo-who-opened-fire-at-drug-deal-house-jailed-for-32-years-1-5249480 (https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/dewsbury-duo-who-opened-fire-at-drug-deal-house-jailed-for-32-years-1-5249480)
Good find Myster!  Yes that's the geezer.  He was heavily implicated in the supply of a firearm to Tate, days before the three were murdered.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 09:03:13 AM
Good find Myster!  Yes that's the geezer.  He was heavily implicated in the supply of a firearm to Tate, days before the three were murdered.
He got another pointless and useless six weeks after a failed appeal.  What a waste of space and court time!

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/gunman-michael-bowman-loses-appeal-12060519 (https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/gunman-michael-bowman-loses-appeal-12060519)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 09:09:21 AM
A sawn-off shotgun fired from the right side leaves more room than you think...

(https://i.imgur.com/Hidilc5.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/05bQA11.png)

Shots must have been fired through the open rear door while the killer was talking to / negotiating with head man Tate who was sitting on the back seat.  Why would the killer bother to wind the window back up anyway?

(https://i.imgur.com/4NyrKVw.png)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 11:20:40 AM
So I noticed, but my post preceded sika's transcript.  My knowledge of this case is poor so bear with me.

Were all the victims shot through the offside rear door?  Whilst it was opened or through its opened window?  Whoever did the deed must have been an accomplished marksman to get three fairly accurate headshots on target in split seconds, before any of them had a chance to react... other than Tucker and Rolfe at the front turning their heads to the right to see what was happening if Tate on the rear seat was shot first. The rigid forward-pointing heads in the drawing are misleading, I think.

I need to carefully read/listen to all the authentic docs from the various experts.  Sika has transcribed some of the trial transcripts from the narrated vids you uploaded and these are the most important imo.  As with all these cases there's a lot of very misleading info in the public domain eg constant reference to a saw off shotgun. 

Initially I thought the gun person had opened the door(s) to shoot (found closed) and couldn't understand why ice hadn't formed inside but I now know the rear passenger side window was smashed and from my initial quick skim of the expert evidence it seems each victim initially sustained 1 disabling shot through the broken window Tate's side ie rear passenger side.  Not only would the gun person need to be a marksman but also have the psychology to kill on demand.  Afaik Steele and Whomes were not marksmen, did not have a history of aggression/violence and neither were military/police trained.

I don't think the victims were high enough up the chain to involve any government organisation if indeed such things even happen in 'real' life.  This leaves imo the following:

Leah Betts grieving father, Paul Betts, who was a retired police officer firearms trained and at the time run a clay pigeon shooting business.  Apparently at one time the police suspected him and checked all his firearms.  Leah died from taking in excess water following an ecstasy tablet.  Afaik the murdered trio, Steele and Whomes traded in cannabis but Tucker was responsible for the doors at Racquels nightclub where Leah was the night she took the tablet.

The trio had upset someone higher up the chain who had military/police trained personnel on their payroll who was happy to execute the trio for the right fee.  Or the gun person had been trained by some terrorist organisation eg IRA. 

I guess it's possible Steele had the right contacts but I can't see the motive and I very much doubt he personally was capable practically or psychologically of carrying out the murders.   

The shootings appear to have been carried out ambush style with military precision leaving no forensic evidence eg footprints/tyre tracks.  Everything appears to have been perfect from the location ie next to a shooting range to disguise the sound of gunshot - the expert said the sound would be heard over a mile away to maybe even planning it down to the weather ie snow which melted away footprints and tyre tracks. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 11:47:47 AM
Maybe a near L-shape ambush:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc51lsMXBkY

Could the presenter be Scipio?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 12:25:01 PM
I haven't transcribed anything from narrated videos.  I certainly couldn't be arsed to do that!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 12:32:14 PM
Shots must have been fired through the open rear door while the killer was talking to / negotiating with head man Tate who was sitting on the back seat.  Why would the killer bother to wind the window back up anyway?

(https://i.imgur.com/4NyrKVw.png)
The prosecution case is that the other backseat passenger (Steele), left the vehicle under the pretence of unlocking and opening the gate.  In fact, Whomes was lying in wait, he handed Steele a gun so that they were now both armed.  Whomes then leaned into the car through the back door that Steele had left open and began the shooting.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 12:33:51 PM
Maybe a near L-shape ambush:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc51lsMXBkY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc51lsMXBkY)

Could the presenter be Scipio?
He died in Liternum, 183 BC. of natural causes or suicide.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 12:37:20 PM
The prosecution case is that the other backseat passenger (Steele), left the vehicle under the pretence of unlocking and opening the gate.  In fact, Whomes was lying in wait, he handed Steele a gun so that they were now both armed.  Whomes then leaned into the car through the back door that Steele had left open and began the shooting.
But if so, did Steele fire any shots or not?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 12:49:31 PM
I haven't transcribed anything from narrated videos.  I certainly couldn't be arsed to do that!

Even I couldn't be arsed to do that and I can get pretty anorakish! 8(8-)) No I meant you posted up the transcripts of the narrated vids which I assume you have hard copies of.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 12:51:09 PM
He died in Liternum, 183 BC. of natural causes or suicide.

 @)(++(*

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 12:59:59 PM
The prosecution case is that the other backseat passenger (Steele), left the vehicle under the pretence of unlocking and opening the gate.  In fact, Whomes was lying in wait, he handed Steele a gun so that they were now both armed.  Whomes then leaned into the car through the back door that Steele had left open and began the shooting.

Do you really see this as a credible scenario?  I don't.  Neither look fit enough to move around that swiftly. 

The expert in your transcript said:

All the cartridge cases had got the same marks and they came from the same gun.

Does he mean the exact same gun or the same model? 

Personally I think it was a single shooter highly trained and he/she made their own way there and back. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 01:08:03 PM
The expert also said the following:

All 7 cartridge cases had been fired using the same weapon; probably a pump or self-loading gun having a large capacity magazine. He could not discount the use of a gun with a lesser magazine capacity, that that would have required reloading. The likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired wads suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.

I think he is referring to the exact same weapon?  Maybe Steele/Whomes took turns passing it over the roof of the Range Rover as they did so!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 02:50:50 PM
Do you really see this as a credible scenario?  I don't.  Neither look fit enough to move around that swiftly. 

The expert in your transcript said:

All the cartridge cases had got the same marks and they came from the same gun.

Does he mean the exact same gun or the same model? 

Personally I think it was a single shooter highly trained and he/she made their own way there and back.
No.  I believe that that was the intention.  Whomes fired the initial shots as Steeles gun fell apart.  It has been suggested that Whomes then handed the gun to Steele, who then fired additional shots. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 15, 2019, 03:04:54 PM
The expert also said the following:

All 7 cartridge cases had been fired using the same weapon; probably a pump or self-loading gun having a large capacity magazine. He could not discount the use of a gun with a lesser magazine capacity, that that would have required reloading. The likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired wads suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.

I think he is referring to the exact same weapon?  Maybe Steele/Whomes took turns passing it over the roof of the Range Rover as they did so!
So they must have been expert at circus tricks too!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YICwx_r4gVU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YICwx_r4gVU)

Besides all the shotgun cartridges were fired from the offside of the vehicle, weren't they?  The rear nearside window was shattered by a shell fired from the offside, or caused by Tate's head banging against the glass maybe?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 03:15:43 PM
Here is an extract from a police statement made by Darren Nicholls.

I went through Rettendon the latter part of 1995. I remember an occasion when I was there with other people, they were Jack Whomes and Michael Steele, I remember that day. I was at work that day, I was working at Sunbury on Thames, my mobile was with me. Michael Steele rang me that day, he wondered where I was and would like to meet me, we did not discuss where we would meet because I was at work, I agreed to meet him later on that day, at Ron Parkinson’s motorcycles, Marks Tey at 5 o’clock, I drove to Marks Tey, in I think my Golf Convertible, I have been to Ron Parkinsons before, it sells motorcycles. When I arrived I parked in the flats opposite, Mr Steele wasn’t there when I arrived. When I arrived I went into the motorbike shop, I bought something for my old motorbike it was either a battery or a light bulb, I then put it in my car.

Whilst I was walking back to my car I saw Mick, I waved to him I said I was just putting something in my car, and then I got in his pick up truck. The pick up truck was a red Toyota it was an M registration I think. When I got in I sat in the passenger seat, he said they were going down to do a deal with Pat him and Jack I said “where is Jack”, he said “he’ll be here in a minute,” I don’t recall anything else he said, then I noticed Jack had pulled up behind us. Jack was in a beige Volkswagen, it was a B registration, I had sold the car to Michael Steele. When he pulled up he got out and spoke to Mick I don’t recall what was said, then he got back in his car, then we pulled off onto the A12 heading towards London. I was with Mick in his Toyota and Jack behind us in his Volkswagen. I can’t recall exactly what was said, but he said we would meet Pat and there was going to be a drug deal or we were having a drug deal I can't remember.

At that time I didn't know where we was going. Mick said Jack would show me where the deal was going to be he said did I know this place but I'm not sure, he said don't worry Jack would show you where to go. Nothing happened on the journey just normal chat, he told me I was going to swap cars and I was to get in the car with Jack and he was going to meet Pat on his own. We stopped in a lay-by near the Halfway House, which is a pub restaurant on the A127. When we stopped in the lay-by I got in the car with Jack, Mick was going to the Halfway House with Jack. We got to the far end of the lay-by gates, we swapped drivers.

Jack was to swap the number plates. I got my feet wet, Jack was wearing overalls and wellies, I remember the wellies more than the overalls because they were new. When we stopped Jack got out to stick the new number plates over the existing plates but they wouldn't stick as it was too wet. I saw the number plates he was trying to stick, they were B registration as well and they were brand new. When the plates couldn't be stuck they were put in the back of the car, and he said drive down to the Halfway House pub. I had been to the pub only as a child or driving past on the way to Southend.

When we got to the pub jack told me to park at the back as far away from the A127 as possible which I did. I could see Mick's Toyota parked in front of us to the left, after we parked Jack changed his mind and said no dont park here park as close to the A127 so I moved the car. I could still see the hi-lux which was in front again but to my right. Then we had to leave the car running because the windows were misting up because of the weather, I said shall we have a drink and Sack said no. Then he said we were waiting for Pat to arrive and go to a meeting point, shortly after that he said right go.

I saw a dark coloured Range Rover when he said that, the Range Rover drove and parked next to Micky's hi-lux, I couldn't see who was in the Range Rover. Jack then told me to drive off and up the slip road by the pub and back down the A127 to Southend, that is what I did. then he gave me directions down the A127 and on to the A130 to Chelmsford I think, which I am familiar with. A130 goes from the A127 all the way to Chelmsford, but we went to the Rettendon Turnpike, which is a roundabout with traffic lights on it. I went straight over to carry on towards Chelmsford, on the other side of Rettendon turnpike and up the hill and back down hill and out the other side.

Jack then said slow down and take the next right, which I did, it was a lane not a road, then I turned left into a gap to turn the car round, the head lamps were facing the road back towards the A130. Jack told me he would ring me when he wanted picking up, I had my mobile with me, he got out had a bag and a coat from the back, the bag I think was a canvass sausage shape bag, I didn't notice it in the car before, I might have done but it didn’t register. He told me he would ring me when he wanted me to pick him up, so I pulled off and went right towards Chelmsford, I drove down the road to the first point I could turn round to a petrol station, then I drove back up the road and parked in a pub on the left hand side of the road. I left the engine running and checked my phone to see I had a lousy signal so I moved to get a better signal up the road.

The pub I was in had a bright pink Morris Minor, the next pub I parked in past the lane and up the hill and took the first left turn, went up that road turned around and first left up there, then came up and parked outside the first house on my left and waited for him to ring. I didn’t wait there very long, my phone rang, Jack said come and pick us up and hung up I think I might have said ok. I turned right went back down the road, and had to wait for a few cars to go past so I could turn right into the lane, then turned the car round to face the road again. I didn’t see anyone and after a short period of time the back opened and Jack got in. I didn’t notice the interior light come on.

I said “where’s Mick” he said he won’t be a minute he’s dropped something. Jack was sitting between the back seats talking to me then Mick opened the passenger door of the car and the interior light came on. When the light came on I was looking at Jack, I notice he had surgical gloves and I saw something on them like blood, Mick said turn the interior light off, Mick had shut the door about the same time, then he said “lets get going,” he said go left towards Rettendon turnpike, so I pulled out, something clicked in my mind something had happened.

I pulled out in front on a car, Mick asked if I was ok, I said yes I was and as we drove up the road towards turnpike, Mick said they wont f..k us about no more, and Jack said yeah it was quite funny cause when Mick had shot one of them the gun fell apart, he kept asking me if I was ok several times. I realised what happened but not to who, so I said I hope I don’t fall out with you two, Mick said no you wont fall out with us. Micks started to hand over to Jack parts of the gun, I saw the barrels. I dont know the names of the other parts, I definitely saw the barrels. I was driving I was a bit confused at the time.

From the Rettendon turnpike we went back down the A130 to Southend, then at Rawreth traffic lights I turned left, straight to the bottom of that road, we turned right and then took another right turn on or two roads later. As we went up the road there was a pub on the right, the Hungry Horse or Hungry Hippo something like that. I drove into the car park of the pub and parked next to Mick’s Toyota which was on the left and stopped the car. They got out and I was still sitting there.

Mick had opened up his Toyota he told me to go and get in the Toyota which I did, then they were getting changed sort of thing, Mick was taking off his wellies and overalls off over his wellies, then slipping his shoes on, boiler suit and wellies were put in the pick up truck and Jack did the same I think, and then we drove off Mick drove the hi-lux with me in passenger seat and Jack was behind us in the Passat. We drove past the Rettendon lane, then Jack overtook us on the dual carriageway as we were driving slower.

There was some conversation in the car with Mr Steele, he said Jack was very cold hearted I said why, he first of all said when they stopped down the lane a gate had been shut so I got out the range rover I didn’t know where Jack was, then Jack leant into the range rover and shot all three of them, Jack handed Mick a gun and Mick shot them, then he said once that had happened Jack reloaded his gun and shot them all in the back of the head. I cant recall anything else that was said, I did say can we stop and have a drink Mick originally said yes good idea as Mick looked shaken up but when we got to Marks Tey he said best get home straight away. Then I got in my car and headed back to Braintree.

Afterwards I was working at Mick’s new house, like a cottage and there was things spoken there with Jack and Mick. In conversations Mick told me that when he was driving to the lane with them in the Range Rover that Pat’s girlfriend Sarah had rung Pat on the telephone all lovey dovey which he hated, not like when Sarah talked to Mick and Jackie. He was concerned Pat might have said he was with Mick now but he didn’t. Then he hung up the phone just as they were at the lane. I don’t know if it was Mick or Jack said when Pat was shot in the back he started to squeal like a baby and his hand had come up and put his hand through the window.

Also Jack had said to me at some point Mick was really excited when he shot them and saying “give me some more cartridge, give me some more cartridges.” Afterwards Mick said that he hadn’t felt bad about it as Pat deserved it he was such a b........, who would give a f..k that pat was dead as nobody liked him which was quite true probably. There was conversation as why it happened with Mick. Roughly it was that when the money had been returned from the bad drug deal a lot of the money Pat had put into it wasn’t his he had borrowed it and that what Pat decided to do was not pay the people back and blame Mick to say he hadn’t paid them back. Mick knew this because Sarah had told him Pat’s ex girlfriend.

Pat was telling them he hadn’t been paid back and if he wasn’t paid back he would kill Mick.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 03:53:41 PM
So they must have been expert at circus tricks too!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YICwx_r4gVU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YICwx_r4gVU)

Those guys look agile, fit with good hand/eye coordination.  By comparison Steele/Whomes look like a pair of old cart horses.

Besides all the shotgun cartridges were fired from the offside of the vehicle, weren't they?  The rear nearside window was shattered by a shell fired from the offside, or caused by Tate's head banging against the glass maybe?

From the expert:

JUDGE HIDDEN: We come to the forensic scientist John Burns. He has been a forensic scientist since 1966 and has worked exclusively in that time in examination of firearms since 1977. He works at the laboratory at Huntingdon and is an (inaudible) chemist. He did a threefold examination: the scene first, then the garage at South Woodham Ferrers police station and then the post-mortem.

He concluded that 8 shots from a 12-bore shotgun appeared to have been fired at the scene: 2 into the right hand side of Tucker, the front passenger, 1 into the back of his head; 2 into the right side of the head and face of Rolfe, the driver; and 3 at the rear passenger Tate - 1 into the right torso, 1 across back of the head and 1 into the left side of the head. He thought that most of the shots appeared to have been fired from close range through the open rear off-side door of the vehicle. One of the shots to the head and face of Rolfe having first passed through the right hand corner of the driver's head rest as you see in the photograph. The shot fired across the head of Tate appeared to have passed through the glass on the rear nearside door. The shot into his head appeared to be fired from the nearside of the vehicle through the same glass. The angle of the shot into his right torso suggested that he was in a position similar to where he was found when the shot was fired.

I'm not finding the above clear.  8 shots: 3 to each of Tate and Tucker and 2 to Rolfe with all fired through the rear off-side door of the vehicle except 1 or 2 to Tate?  Is the expert saying the gsw that went across the back of Tate's head passed through the glass window of the rear nearside and a further gsw was then inflicted through this broken window?  Or is he saying both of these gsw's were inflicted through the rear nearside window?  I need to find out where the cartridge cases were found.

I was thinking the assassin was on the rear nearside of the vehicle smashed the window manually or with the initial gunshot and disabled the trio with a single gsw before inflicting more to ensure they did not survive.  It seems I was wrong.

In any event the experts scenario poses a number of questions:

- Assuming the assassin was lying in wait how could he/she know the central locking wouldn't be on?   They couldn't take the risk brandishing a full length shotgun by wasting vital seconds trying the door only to find it locked with Rolfe then putting the Range Rover into reverse and accelerating away and/or any of the trio pulling their own firearms.

- If the assassin was travelling in the Range Rover when, where and how did he/she collect the full length shotgun from?  Even if he/she carried with them on the basis it was needed for anyone they were supposedly meeting at what stage did he/she access it to murder the trio? 

- I thought it might have been possible for one or more people to in effect take them hostage elsewhere and then force them to drive to Rettendon at gunpoint but would the assassin(s) take the risk of allowing them to retain their mobile phones which were found in Tate/Tucker's hands?  Staging them in their hands after the event seems a bit far fetched and would they want to take unnecessary risks handling items, victims, leaning into the car and wasting time when they could be quickly moving away from soc?  Also Rolfe was clutching the steering wheel with his foot on the brake and I can't see the assasin(s) staging all of this?  Or maybe they did in an attempt to lead the police to believe those responsible were known to the victims?

I can see the prosecution case against Steele/Whomes ie Steele travelling in the Range Rover then getting out the rear passenger door to supposedly open the gate with Whomes lying in wait with the shotgun at the ready but still think it was someone highly trained.  Is such a weapon easy to come by for criminals?  Afaik Steele/Whomes had little or no experience/knowledge of firearms although I believe Steele had a firearm at his home.  To carry out such an attack would surely require multiple test fires to ensure the weapon was functioning properly. It's hardly the sort of thing criminals could acquire legitimately through a registered gun dealer where the firearm is all checked etc.  Where would they carry out such tests given the thing can be heard for over a mile?  I guess Steele could have taken it out to sea in his boat to test fire. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 04:28:54 PM
Here is an extract from a police statement made by Darren Nicholls.

I went through Rettendon the latter part of 1995. I remember an occasion when I was there with other people, they were Jack Whomes and Michael Steele, I remember that day. I was at work that day, I was working at Sunbury on Thames, my mobile was with me. Michael Steele rang me that day, he wondered where I was and would like to meet me, we did not discuss where we would meet because I was at work, I agreed to meet him later on that day, at Ron Parkinson’s motorcycles, Marks Tey at 5 o’clock, I drove to Marks Tey, in I think my Golf Convertible, I have been to Ron Parkinsons before, it sells motorcycles. When I arrived I parked in the flats opposite, Mr Steele wasn’t there when I arrived. When I arrived I went into the motorbike shop, I bought something for my old motorbike it was either a battery or a light bulb, I then put it in my car.

Whilst I was walking back to my car I saw Mick, I waved to him I said I was just putting something in my car, and then I got in his pick up truck. The pick up truck was a red Toyota it was an M registration I think. When I got in I sat in the passenger seat, he said they were going down to do a deal with Pat him and Jack I said “where is Jack”, he said “he’ll be here in a minute,” I don’t recall anything else he said, then I noticed Jack had pulled up behind us. Jack was in a beige Volkswagen, it was a B registration, I had sold the car to Michael Steele. When he pulled up he got out and spoke to Mick I don’t recall what was said, then he got back in his car, then we pulled off onto the A12 heading towards London. I was with Mick in his Toyota and Jack behind us in his Volkswagen. I can’t recall exactly what was said, but he said we would meet Pat and there was going to be a drug deal or we were having a drug deal I can't remember.

At that time I didn't know where we was going. Mick said Jack would show me where the deal was going to be he said did I know this place but I'm not sure, he said don't worry Jack would show you where to go. Nothing happened on the journey just normal chat, he told me I was going to swap cars and I was to get in the car with Jack and he was going to meet Pat on his own. We stopped in a lay-by near the Halfway House, which is a pub restaurant on the A127. When we stopped in the lay-by I got in the car with Jack, Mick was going to the Halfway House with Jack. We got to the far end of the lay-by gates, we swapped drivers.

Jack was to swap the number plates. I got my feet wet, Jack was wearing overalls and wellies, I remember the wellies more than the overalls because they were new. When we stopped Jack got out to stick the new number plates over the existing plates but they wouldn't stick as it was too wet. I saw the number plates he was trying to stick, they were B registration as well and they were brand new. When the plates couldn't be stuck they were put in the back of the car, and he said drive down to the Halfway House pub. I had been to the pub only as a child or driving past on the way to Southend.

When we got to the pub jack told me to park at the back as far away from the A127 as possible which I did. I could see Mick's Toyota parked in front of us to the left, after we parked Jack changed his mind and said no dont park here park as close to the A127 so I moved the car. I could still see the hi-lux which was in front again but to my right. Then we had to leave the car running because the windows were misting up because of the weather, I said shall we have a drink and Sack said no. Then he said we were waiting for Pat to arrive and go to a meeting point, shortly after that he said right go.

I saw a dark coloured Range Rover when he said that, the Range Rover drove and parked next to Micky's hi-lux, I couldn't see who was in the Range Rover. Jack then told me to drive off and up the slip road by the pub and back down the A127 to Southend, that is what I did. then he gave me directions down the A127 and on to the A130 to Chelmsford I think, which I am familiar with. A130 goes from the A127 all the way to Chelmsford, but we went to the Rettendon Turnpike, which is a roundabout with traffic lights on it. I went straight over to carry on towards Chelmsford, on the other side of Rettendon turnpike and up the hill and back down hill and out the other side.

Jack then said slow down and take the next right, which I did, it was a lane not a road, then I turned left into a gap to turn the car round, the head lamps were facing the road back towards the A130. Jack told me he would ring me when he wanted picking up, I had my mobile with me, he got out had a bag and a coat from the back, the bag I think was a canvass sausage shape bag, I didn't notice it in the car before, I might have done but it didn’t register. He told me he would ring me when he wanted me to pick him up, so I pulled off and went right towards Chelmsford, I drove down the road to the first point I could turn round to a petrol station, then I drove back up the road and parked in a pub on the left hand side of the road. I left the engine running and checked my phone to see I had a lousy signal so I moved to get a better signal up the road.

The pub I was in had a bright pink Morris Minor, the next pub I parked in past the lane and up the hill and took the first left turn, went up that road turned around and first left up there, then came up and parked outside the first house on my left and waited for him to ring. I didn’t wait there very long, my phone rang, Jack said come and pick us up and hung up I think I might have said ok. I turned right went back down the road, and had to wait for a few cars to go past so I could turn right into the lane, then turned the car round to face the road again. I didn’t see anyone and after a short period of time the back opened and Jack got in. I didn’t notice the interior light come on.

I said “where’s Mick” he said he won’t be a minute he’s dropped something. Jack was sitting between the back seats talking to me then Mick opened the passenger door of the car and the interior light came on. When the light came on I was looking at Jack, I notice he had surgical gloves and I saw something on them like blood, Mick said turn the interior light off, Mick had shut the door about the same time, then he said “lets get going,” he said go left towards Rettendon turnpike, so I pulled out, something clicked in my mind something had happened.

I pulled out in front on a car, Mick asked if I was ok, I said yes I was and as we drove up the road towards turnpike, Mick said they wont f..k us about no more, and Jack said yeah it was quite funny cause when Mick had shot one of them the gun fell apart, he kept asking me if I was ok several times. I realised what happened but not to who, so I said I hope I don’t fall out with you two, Mick said no you wont fall out with us. Micks started to hand over to Jack parts of the gun, I saw the barrels. I dont know the names of the other parts, I definitely saw the barrels. I was driving I was a bit confused at the time.

From the Rettendon turnpike we went back down the A130 to Southend, then at Rawreth traffic lights I turned left, straight to the bottom of that road, we turned right and then took another right turn on or two roads later. As we went up the road there was a pub on the right, the Hungry Horse or Hungry Hippo something like that. I drove into the car park of the pub and parked next to Mick’s Toyota which was on the left and stopped the car. They got out and I was still sitting there.

Mick had opened up his Toyota he told me to go and get in the Toyota which I did, then they were getting changed sort of thing, Mick was taking off his wellies and overalls off over his wellies, then slipping his shoes on, boiler suit and wellies were put in the pick up truck and Jack did the same I think, and then we drove off Mick drove the hi-lux with me in passenger seat and Jack was behind us in the Passat. We drove past the Rettendon lane, then Jack overtook us on the dual carriageway as we were driving slower.

There was some conversation in the car with Mr Steele, he said Jack was very cold hearted I said why, he first of all said when they stopped down the lane a gate had been shut so I got out the range rover I didn’t know where Jack was, then Jack leant into the range rover and shot all three of them, Jack handed Mick a gun and Mick shot them, then he said once that had happened Jack reloaded his gun and shot them all in the back of the head. I cant recall anything else that was said, I did say can we stop and have a drink Mick originally said yes good idea as Mick looked shaken up but when we got to Marks Tey he said best get home straight away. Then I got in my car and headed back to Braintree.

Afterwards I was working at Mick’s new house, like a cottage and there was things spoken there with Jack and Mick. In conversations Mick told me that when he was driving to the lane with them in the Range Rover that Pat’s girlfriend Sarah had rung Pat on the telephone all lovey dovey which he hated, not like when Sarah talked to Mick and Jackie. He was concerned Pat might have said he was with Mick now but he didn’t. Then he hung up the phone just as they were at the lane. I don’t know if it was Mick or Jack said when Pat was shot in the back he started to squeal like a baby and his hand had come up and put his hand through the window.

Also Jack had said to me at some point Mick was really excited when he shot them and saying “give me some more cartridge, give me some more cartridges.” Afterwards Mick said that he hadn’t felt bad about it as Pat deserved it he was such a b........, who would give a f..k that pat was dead as nobody liked him which was quite true probably. There was conversation as why it happened with Mick. Roughly it was that when the money had been returned from the bad drug deal a lot of the money Pat had put into it wasn’t his he had borrowed it and that what Pat decided to do was not pay the people back and blame Mick to say he hadn’t paid them back. Mick knew this because Sarah had told him Pat’s ex girlfriend.

Pat was telling them he hadn’t been paid back and if he wasn’t paid back he would kill Mick.

Imo the above is weak to say the least. 

In Donna Jagger's WS she states Steele's Toyota was blue.  Nicholls above states it was red.  Maybe he had two  8)-)))  This is just one of many inconsistencies I have found without even a close examination.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508993#msg508993

Nicholls WS offers nothing of evidential value just a lot of waffle and stories eg the attempt to change number plates which can then cover a lack of corroborating evidence eg none of these vehicles tracked on cctv.  There's nothing in Nicholls WS's that he couldn't learn from either the press or police. 

By all accounts Steele was a perfectionist and an accomplished engineer.  The idea he would be in possession of a shotgun which fell apart during a high risk assassin is nonsense imo. 

The WS also refers to a Mr Steele and Mick Steele.  Why?  If they were Nicholls own words he would refer to Steele consistently as Mr Steele, Mick or whatever.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 04:45:21 PM
If Nicholls is lying, then his relationship with the investigating officers must have been a corrupt one. 

If you believe this to be the case, then you also have to believe that Nicholls would be capable of keeping his story together, throughout multiple days of cross questioning. 

I personally find his overall story, very convincing.  However, I don't believe that he told the whole truth.  I think he tried to minimise the involvement of some of his close friends. 

Holly, how did I know that you would pick up on the Mickey Steele/Mr Steele bit? 

Steele and Whomes alibis on the day of the murders are worth a good examination.  They are far fetched, to say the least.  In the case of Steele, part of it was proved to be false.  I'll try and upload some details. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 15, 2019, 04:59:27 PM
If Nicholls is lying, then his relationship with the investigating officers must have been a corrupt one. 

If you believe this to be the case, then you also have to believe that Nicholls would be capable of keeping his story together, throughout multiple days of cross questioning. 

I personally find his overall story, very convincing.  However, I don't believe that he told the whole truth.  I think he tried to minimise the involvement of some of his close friends. 

Holly, how did I know that you would pick up on the Mickey Steele/Mr Steele bit? 

Steele and Whomes alibis on the day of the murders are worth a good examination.  They are far fetched, to say the least.  In the case of Steele, part of it was proved to be false.  I'll try and upload some details.

Yes I do believe it was a corrupt one as per CoA doc.  Nicholls sold his pals down the river to save his own skin imo.

But his story doesn't contain any corroborating facts that he couldn't learn from others eg police, press.  It's all waffly eg went into the motorcycle shop and saw a pink Morris Minor in the pub car park.  So what?  Unless we have independent verification to prove one way or the other what does it all mean?  It's just unnecessary detail and waffle that will make some think it sounds credible.

According to the CoA doc he swapped cars in a country park.  In his WS he refers to swapping cars in a lay-by.  Can't be both.  I know the area well both the country park and the lay-by.  They are a distant apart and not the sort of thing you would mix up. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 05:14:22 PM
Yes I do believe it was a corrupt one as per CoA doc.  Nicholls sold his pals down the river to save his own skin imo.

But his story doesn't contain any corroborating facts that he couldn't learn from others eg police, press.  It's all waffly eg went into the motorcycle shop and saw a pink Morris Minor in the pub car park.  So what?  Unless we have independent verification to prove one way or the other what does it all mean?  It's just unnecessary detail and waffle that will make some think it sounds credible.

According to the CoA doc he swapped cars in a country park.  In his WS he refers to swapping cars in a lay-by.  Can't be both.  I know the area well both the country park and the lay-by.  They are a distant apart and not the sort of thing you would mix up.
They did of course swop cars on a couple of occasions that night.

The corrupt policemen were not the investigating officers in this case.

Wolfgang Bird and Phi Stimpson were arrested as part of this investigation.  Bird was arrested on the same day as all the others (Steele, Whomes, Nicholls, Tate etc).  Nicholls was his informant for some months up to the arrests. 

Bridge and Reed, Nicholls close friends, were spared any charges even though they had both been present when drugs were being imported/transported.  It was widely suspected that Nicholls had downplayed their part in the conspiracy. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 05:18:55 PM
They did of course swop cars on a couple of occasions that night.

The corrupt policemen were not the investigating officers in this case.

Wolfgang Bird and Phi Stimpson were arrested as part of this investigation.  Bird was arrested on the same day as all the others (Steele, Whomes, Nicholls, Tate etc).  Nicholls was his informant for some months up to the arrests. 

Bridge and Reed, Nicholls close friends, were spared any charges even though they had both been present when drugs were being imported/transported.  It was widely suspected that Nicholls had downplayed their part in the conspiracy.
He mentioned the pink Morris minor as a means of confirming which pub it was.  I don't know if you're aware/remember that that pub featured the pink car, parked prominently on the front.

Nicholls mentioned the motorcycle shop and was able to produce a receipt for an item he purchased there, that afternoon, whilst waiting for Steele to arrive. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 05:28:26 PM
Imo the above is weak to say the least. 

In Donna Jagger's WS she states Steele's Toyota was blue.  Nicholls above states it was red.  Maybe he had two  8)-)))  This is just one of many inconsistencies I have found without even a close examination.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508993#msg508993

Nicholls WS offers nothing of evidential value just a lot of waffle and stories eg the attempt to change number plates which can then cover a lack of corroborating evidence eg none of these vehicles tracked on cctv.  There's nothing in Nicholls WS's that he couldn't learn from either the press or police. 

By all accounts Steele was a perfectionist and an accomplished engineer.  The idea he would be in possession of a shotgun which fell apart during a high risk assassin is nonsense imo. 

The WS also refers to a Mr Steele and Mick Steele.  Why?  If they were Nicholls own words he would refer to Steele consistently as Mr Steele, Mick or whatever.
Jaggers is referring to a Rav 4.  Nicholls is talking about a Hi-lux.

Steele was often buying/selling/changing vehicles.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 15, 2019, 06:07:40 PM
Holly, do you think that Donna Jaggers is lying in her statement, when she states that Craig told her that he and the others were off to meet Mickey the pilot?  If so, why do you think she would ?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 09:06:58 AM
Jaggers is referring to a Rav 4.  Nicholls is talking about a Hi-lux.

Steele was often buying/selling/changing vehicles.

But why not make it clear?  I can see Donna Jagger refers to a Blue Rav4 but Nicholls just refers to a red Toyota.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 09:35:50 AM
Holly, do you think that Donna Jaggers is lying in her statement, when she states that Craig told her that he and the others were off to meet Mickey the pilot?  If so, why do you think she would ?

Maybe Rolfe was lying? 

Lets assume the murdered trio were due to meet 1 or more of Nicholls, Steele, Whomes it doesn't necessarily follow that any of them had a hand in the murders?  They were partners in crime and socialised together.

The bodies were found on 6th Dec.  Donna Jaggers may well have been one of the last surviving people to speak with Rolfe therefore I'm sure the police would want a detailed WS from her on day 1.  If not, why not?  On 8th Dec she attended a press conference to appeal for info:

https://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1715361,00.html

Assuming she told police on day 1 Rolfe was off to meet 'Mickey the pilot' why did it take the police so long to investigate and bring a case against Steele (and Whomes)?  Again another WS where the same person is referred to using a number of different names which is suspicious eg Steele, Michael Steele, Mick, Micky etc

The WS of Donna Jaggers referring to 'Mickey the pilot' is dated 14th March 1996 some 3 months after the event!?

As I explained up thread the timings are way out with Nicholls account.  Based on the accounts of Donna Jaggers and Nicholls the murdered trio would arrive at Rettendon about 7pm and Nicholls, Steele and Whomes about 6pm.  Nicholls did not say anything about having to hang around for an hour.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 16, 2019, 10:03:05 AM
Maybe Rolfe was lying? 

Lets assume the murdered trio were due to meet 1 or more of Nicholls, Steele, Whomes it doesn't necessarily follow that any of them had a hand in the murders?  They were partners in crime and socialised together.

The bodies were found on 6th Dec.  Donna Jaggers may well have been one of the last surviving people to speak with Rolfe therefore I'm sure the police would want a detailed WS from her on day 1.  If not, why not?  On 8th Dec she attended a press conference to appeal for info:

https://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1715361,00.html

Assuming she told police on day 1 Rolfe was off to meet 'Mickey the pilot' why did it take the police so long to investigate and bring a case against Steele (and Whomes)?  Again another WS where the same person is referred to using a number of different names which is suspicious eg Steele, Michael Steele, Mick, Micky etc

The WS of Donna Jaggers referring to 'Mickey the pilot' is dated 14th March 1996 some 3 months after the event!?

As I explained up thread the timings are way out with Nicholls account.  Based on the accounts of Donna Jaggers and Nicholls the murdered trio would arrive at Rettendon about 7pm and Nicholls, Steele and Whomes about 6pm.  Nicholls did not say anything about having to hang around for an hour.
I would imagine that Essex Police did speak to Jagger very soon after the murders.  Rather than steam in and make arrests, they targeted Mick in the hope that he would incriminate himself.  In the period between the murders and arrest, Mickey Steele and Whomes were put under surveillance.   Without any forensic evidence, there was nothing to be gained by making premature arrests.  To quote Michael Steele, "they were trying to flush me out". 

The plan worked perfectly.  They were able to catch Nicholls whilst in an extremely vulnerable position.  He was facing years in jail having been caught in possession of the drugs.  There was now a strong incentive for him to turn supergrass.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 10:20:18 AM
What evidence supports Nicholls testimony?

He claims he was working in Sunbury, W. London on 6th Dec and left early afternoon to drive to Essex via the M25 and M11? 

CCTV footage?

He claims there was tel contact in the middle of the day whilst still in Sunbury between himself and Steele who was at or near Colchester.

Tel Records?  How come the prosecution can offer up detailed info about Sarah Saunders call and calls between Whomes and Nicholls but the above is vague?

He claims he arranged to meet with Steele at Marks Tey at 5pm (which included Whomes too).  The onward journey was to the Halfway House, Brentwood.

Where's the evidence for this?  CCTV footage, receipts for fuel?

Bearing in mind the weather produced severe problems by way of traffic and road conditions on that particular day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

And yet nothing in Nicholls testimony about the weather, traffic and road conditions. 

I'll add to the above when I have time but imo it's a crock of shite.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 10:23:05 AM
I would imagine that Essex Police did speak to Jagger very soon after the murders.  Rather than steam in and make arrests, they targeted Mick in the hope that he would incriminate himself.  In the period between the murders and arrest, Mickey Steele and Whomes were put under surveillance.   Without any forensic evidence, there was nothing to be gained by making premature arrests.  To quote Michael Steele, "they were trying to flush me out". 

The plan worked perfectly.  They were able to catch Nicholls whilst in an extremely vulnerable position.  He was facing years in jail having been caught in possession of the drugs.  There was now a strong incentive for him to turn supergrass.

Trying to flush him out for what?  Drug dealing, murders, both?

I don't think EP needed to steam in and make arrests.  They could have tried appealing to Steele's better side by asking him to assist with their enquiries on the basis he had tel contact with Tate eg 'We're talking to everyone who has had recent tel contact with any of the murdered trio and/or known to them, can you help us? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 16, 2019, 10:49:11 AM
Trying to flush him out for what?  Drug dealing, murders, both?

I don't think EP needed to steam in and make arrests.  They could have tried appealing to Steele's better side by asking him to assist with their enquiries on the basis he had tel contact with Tate eg 'We're talking to everyone who has had recent tel contact with any of the murdered trio and/or known to them, can you help us?
For both.

I can't be certain that Steele wasn't spoken to by the police in the immediate aftermath of the murders.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 16, 2019, 11:21:35 AM
What evidence supports Nicholls testimony?

He claims he was working in Sunbury, W. London on 6th Dec and left early afternoon to drive to Essex via the M25 and M11? 

CCTV footage?

He claims there was tel contact in the middle of the day whilst still in Sunbury between himself and Steele who was at or near Colchester.

Tel Records?  How come the prosecution can offer up detailed info about Sarah Saunders call and calls between Whomes and Nicholls but the above is vague?

He claims he arranged to meet with Steele at Marks Tey at 5pm (which included Whomes too).  The onward journey was to the Halfway House, Brentwood.

Where's the evidence for this?  CCTV footage, receipts for fuel?

Bearing in mind the weather produced severe problems by way of traffic and road conditions on that particular day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

And yet nothing in Nicholls testimony about the weather, traffic and road conditions. 

I'll add to the above when I have time but imo it's a crock of shite.
There are extremely detailed telephone logs, including Steeles calls to Nicholls, Whomes and Tate on the day of the murders, including extremely incriminating calls made after the murders.  There are two calls made from Steeles landline to his own mobile at around 8.15pm.  He explained that this was him phoning his own mobile "to make sure it was hooked". 

That is very much the tip of the iceberg as far as Steeles evidence is concerned. 

He had to try and explain a purchase of 4 star fuel on the day in question.  He claimed he was driving a Renault 21.  He says that he went on to sell this vehicle to Whomes in January 1996.  In fact, records proved that he sold the car to Whomes in October 1995, two months before the murders.  His evidence is riddled with inconsistencies/untruths like these. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 11:22:14 AM
Who's Billy Jasper?  His account sounds unlikely given the firearms he refers to contradict with the expert evidence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/882425.stm

Imo the perp was highly trained, acted alone and wasn't known to the trio.  You can see the location is rural with plenty of water about meaning the perp may well have washed, changed his/her clothes and walked for miles across the fields and then took an early morning train slipping in with commuters.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 16, 2019, 11:30:24 AM

Tuesday, 18th November 1997
WILLIAM JASPER, sworn
Examined by MR PARKINS QC:

MR PARKINS:
Please give your full name.

A.
William George Jasper.

Q.
Mr Jasper, is it right that you are here only because the defence in this case obtained a witness summons to bring you here?

A.
Yes.

Q.
Can I just ask you this. Were you seen by the police in
January 1996?

A.
Yes.

Q.
In connection with matters that affected you?

A.
Yeah.

Q.
During the course of the time you were with the police
were you interviewed?

A.
Yes.

Q.
During that same period of time, January 1996, did you
give to the police an oral and indeed a written account
of matters that you said you had been involved with at
Rettendon on the night of 6th December 1995?

A.
Yes.

Q.
Did you give a detailed account?

A.
Yes.

Q.
Did it cover the whole of the evening of 6th December 1995?

A.
Yes.

Q.
Up to what time, please?

A.
It's hard to remember.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
I cannot hear. Up to?

A.
Hard to remember.

MR PARKINS:
Hard to remember, my Lord, was the evidence.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
Hard to remember.

MR PARKINS:
Yes.Where were you in fact on the evening of 6th December 1995?

A.
Hard to remember.

Q.
Hard to remember. Do you know the defendant Michael Steele?

A.
No.

Q.
Have you ever seen him before?

A.
No.

Q.
Or been in any sort of communication with him?

A.
No.

Q.
What about the man sitting in the middle of the three in the front row; do you recognise him?

A.
No.

Q.
Ever seen him before?

A.
No.

Q.
Or been in any sort of communication with him?

A.
No.

Q.
When were you first made aware that you might be required to give evidence in this trial?

A.
Yesterday.

Q.
Was that as a result of you being served with a witness summons?

A.
No, just told.

Q.
You were just told where you were going.The matters that you spoke about to the police and indeed put in writing --

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
Is this going to an admissible question,Mr Parkins?

MR PARKINS:
My Lord, I think it is, yes. Do not answer,please. I was simply going to ask that it was inconnection with any particular incident at Rettendon; no more than that, my Lord.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
The evidence from this witness is he was asked about --

MR PARKINS:
Yes. Then I will not ask the question. I do not want to ask a question that is not admissible.Yes. Stay there, Mr Jasper.
Cross-examined by MR LEDERMAN QC:

MR LEDERMAN:
Mr Jasper, so that there is no mystery about this, you were arrested I think on 15th January 1996.

A.
Probably.

Q.
Well, in connection with a matter about which I am not going to ask you at all; do you follow?

A.
(The witness nodded).

Q.
Is it a fact that having been arrested for another matter you indicated that you wished to speak

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
Just a moment, Mr Lederman. How is this admissible? This is what a witness is saying to someone else. Members of the jury, would you like to leave please.

(In the absence of the jury)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 16, 2019, 11:32:39 AM
Wednesday, 19th November 1997
WILLIAM JASPER, continued

(In the presence of the jury)

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
Mr Jasper, you will now be asked the first question. When it is asked of you it will be up to you to decide what your course is. Put the question, Mr Lederman.

MR LEDERMAN:
Mr Jasper, my first question to you is this. Are you in fear. Are you in fear?

A.
I'm not prepared to answer that.

MR LEDERMAN:
On the 15th.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
He said he is not prepared to answer that. Yes, go on.

MR LEDERMAN:
On 15th January 1996, Mr Jasper, as a fact did you leave the Forest Gate police station at 3.10 pm with police officers?

A.
I'm not prepared to answer that.

Q.
Did you go to the Palms Motel on the A127 at Hainault?

A.
I'm not prepared to answer that.

Q.
Did you point out to police officers an address, Windmill Cars at Corby near Upminster?

A.
I'm not prepared to answer that.

Q.
Did you go to the Rettendon Turnpike?

A.
I'm not prepared to answer.

Q.
Did you go to a village called Battlebridge?

A.
No comment.

Q.
Would you be kind enough to look please in our jury bundle, the white bundle (Handed). At page 3.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
Let the witness be given Exhibit 3.

MR LEDERMAN:
Usher, he has the bundle, my Lord.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
Would you turn to page 3, Mr Jasper? It is a map.

MR LEDERMAN:
Do you have it, Mr Jasper, please? I wonder if the usher could assist.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
It looks like this.

MR LEDERMAN:
Perhaps usher, I wonder if you could help the witness by pointing out Rectory Lane on that plan.

THE USHER OF THE COURT:
Usher, which one is it, my Lord?

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
I do not think that is Exhibit 3. It is this one. That is the one, is it?

MR PARKINS:
Yes.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
It is underneath. I could not see from the top sheet (Handed).

MR LEDERMAN:
Do the jury have that sheet?

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
Rectory Lane is here. We see there is Woodham Lane and Rectory Lane there.

MR LEDERMAN:
Did you direct the police up that lane but --

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
Sorry, the question was did he go to Rectory Lane first. I do not think he answered, Put it again.

MR LEDERMAN:
Did you go with police officers to Rectory Lane?

A.
No comment.

Q.
Sorry?

A.
No comment.

Q.
No comment. Did you point out to the police a gate by a field in Rectory Lane?

A.
No comment.

MR JUSTICE HIDDEN:
I think further matters of law arise at this stage, Mr Lederman.
Members of the jury, I have to ask you to go out again, I am afraid. Would you retire for the moment?

(In the absence of the jury)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 11:40:21 AM
There are extremely detailed telephone logs, including Steeles calls to Nicholls, Whomes and Tate on the day of the murders, including extremely incriminating calls made after the murders.  There are two calls made from Steeles landline to his own mobile at around 8.15pm.  He explained that this was him phoning his own mobile "to make sure it was hooked". 

That is very much the tip of the iceberg as far as Steeles evidence is concerned. 

He had to try and explain a purchase of 4 star fuel on the day in question.  He claimed he was driving a Renault 21.  He says that he went on to sell this vehicle to Whomes in January 1996.  In fact, records proved that he sold the car to Whomes in October 1995, two months before the murders.  His evidence is riddled with inconsistencies/untruths like these.

Are you able to make this info available because at the moment I'm going off the CoA doc and what I see is very detailed info where it suits the prosecution case.  Bearing in mind Nicholls, Steele and Whomes all had criminal records and were known drug dealers ie they may well have been in the vicinity expecting to take drugs off of or hand drugs over to the murdered trio. 

The CoA doc states:

At 17.03 a call was made from a telephone kiosk near The Halfway House public house on the A127 to Tate's mobile phone.

According to Nicholls he met with Steele and Whomes at circa 5pm at Marks Tey for onward journey to the Halfway House.  The difference between these 2 locations being 40 miles/45 mins.  Who called Tate on his mobile at 17.03 from a telephone kiosk near The Halfway House? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 16, 2019, 11:41:06 AM
There is another couple of pages of cross examination but I can't copy it up at the moment.  I'll try again later.

He was utterly unconvincing, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 12:45:29 PM
There is another couple of pages of cross examination but I can't copy it up at the moment.  I'll try again later.

He was utterly unconvincing, in my opinion.

Thanks. Have you got anything from Steele/Whomes?

I agree utterly unconvincing.  Whose evidence is likely to be the most credible and reliable: Jasper's (a known criminal) or the expert who gave evidence at the trial of Steele/Whomes?  The former said he ferried Mr D to soc but had not initially spotted his 9mm Browning pistol and sawn-off shotgun when he first drove him to Workhouse Lane:

Jasper testified at the Old Bailey that he had agreed to the plan, but had not spotted Mr D's 9mm Browning pistol and a sawn-off shotgun when he first drove him to Workhouse Lane.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/882425.stm

Or the latter who testified at trial that the murder weapon was in all probability a full length shotgun? 

The sort of people who organised the murders would imo not involve idiots like Jasper.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 06:20:37 PM
Here is an extract from a police statement made by Darren Nicholls.

I went through Rettendon the latter part of 1995. I remember an occasion when I was there with other people, they were Jack Whomes and Michael Steele, I remember that day. I was at work that day, I was working at Sunbury on Thames, my mobile was with me. Michael Steele rang me that day, he wondered where I was and would like to meet me, we did not discuss where we would meet because I was at work, I agreed to meet him later on that day, at Ron Parkinson’s motorcycles, Marks Tey at 5 o’clock, I drove to Marks Tey, in I think my Golf Convertible, I have been to Ron Parkinsons before, it sells motorcycles. When I arrived I parked in the flats opposite, Mr Steele wasn’t there when I arrived. When I arrived I went into the motorbike shop, I bought something for my old motorbike it was either a battery or a light bulb, I then put it in my car.

Whilst I was walking back to my car I saw Mick, I waved to him I said I was just putting something in my car, and then I got in his pick up truck. The pick up truck was a red Toyota it was an M registration I think. When I got in I sat in the passenger seat, he said they were going down to do a deal with Pat him and Jack I said “where is Jack”, he said “he’ll be here in a minute,” I don’t recall anything else he said, then I noticed Jack had pulled up behind us. Jack was in a beige Volkswagen, it was a B registration, I had sold the car to Michael Steele. When he pulled up he got out and spoke to Mick I don’t recall what was said, then he got back in his car, then we pulled off onto the A12 heading towards London. I was with Mick in his Toyota and Jack behind us in his Volkswagen. I can’t recall exactly what was said, but he said we would meet Pat and there was going to be a drug deal or we were having a drug deal I can't remember.

At that time I didn't know where we was going. Mick said Jack would show me where the deal was going to be he said did I know this place but I'm not sure, he said don't worry Jack would show you where to go. Nothing happened on the journey just normal chat, he told me I was going to swap cars and I was to get in the car with Jack and he was going to meet Pat on his own. We stopped in a lay-by near the Halfway House, which is a pub restaurant on the A127. When we stopped in the lay-by I got in the car with Jack, Mick was going to the Halfway House with Jack. We got to the far end of the lay-by gates, we swapped drivers.

Jack was to swap the number plates. I got my feet wet, Jack was wearing overalls and wellies, I remember the wellies more than the overalls because they were new. When we stopped Jack got out to stick the new number plates over the existing plates but they wouldn't stick as it was too wet. I saw the number plates he was trying to stick, they were B registration as well and they were brand new. When the plates couldn't be stuck they were put in the back of the car, and he said drive down to the Halfway House pub. I had been to the pub only as a child or driving past on the way to Southend.

When we got to the pub jack told me to park at the back as far away from the A127 as possible which I did. I could see Mick's Toyota parked in front of us to the left, after we parked Jack changed his mind and said no dont park here park as close to the A127 so I moved the car. I could still see the hi-lux which was in front again but to my right. Then we had to leave the car running because the windows were misting up because of the weather, I said shall we have a drink and Sack said no. Then he said we were waiting for Pat to arrive and go to a meeting point, shortly after that he said right go.

I saw a dark coloured Range Rover when he said that, the Range Rover drove and parked next to Micky's hi-lux, I couldn't see who was in the Range Rover. Jack then told me to drive off and up the slip road by the pub and back down the A127 to Southend, that is what I did. then he gave me directions down the A127 and on to the A130 to Chelmsford I think, which I am familiar with. A130 goes from the A127 all the way to Chelmsford, but we went to the Rettendon Turnpike, which is a roundabout with traffic lights on it. I went straight over to carry on towards Chelmsford, on the other side of Rettendon turnpike and up the hill and back down hill and out the other side.

Jack then said slow down and take the next right, which I did, it was a lane not a road, then I turned left into a gap to turn the car round, the head lamps were facing the road back towards the A130. Jack told me he would ring me when he wanted picking up, I had my mobile with me, he got out had a bag and a coat from the back, the bag I think was a canvass sausage shape bag, I didn't notice it in the car before, I might have done but it didn’t register. He told me he would ring me when he wanted me to pick him up, so I pulled off and went right towards Chelmsford, I drove down the road to the first point I could turn round to a petrol station, then I drove back up the road and parked in a pub on the left hand side of the road. I left the engine running and checked my phone to see I had a lousy signal so I moved to get a better signal up the road.

The pub I was in had a bright pink Morris Minor, the next pub I parked in past the lane and up the hill and took the first left turn, went up that road turned around and first left up there, then came up and parked outside the first house on my left and waited for him to ring. I didn’t wait there very long, my phone rang, Jack said come and pick us up and hung up I think I might have said ok. I turned right went back down the road, and had to wait for a few cars to go past so I could turn right into the lane, then turned the car round to face the road again. I didn’t see anyone and after a short period of time the back opened and Jack got in. I didn’t notice the interior light come on.

I said “where’s Mick” he said he won’t be a minute he’s dropped something. Jack was sitting between the back seats talking to me then Mick opened the passenger door of the car and the interior light came on. When the light came on I was looking at Jack, I notice he had surgical gloves and I saw something on them like blood, Mick said turn the interior light off, Mick had shut the door about the same time, then he said “lets get going,” he said go left towards Rettendon turnpike, so I pulled out, something clicked in my mind something had happened.

I pulled out in front on a car, Mick asked if I was ok, I said yes I was and as we drove up the road towards turnpike, Mick said they wont f..k us about no more, and Jack said yeah it was quite funny cause when Mick had shot one of them the gun fell apart, he kept asking me if I was ok several times. I realised what happened but not to who, so I said I hope I don’t fall out with you two, Mick said no you wont fall out with us. Micks started to hand over to Jack parts of the gun, I saw the barrels. I dont know the names of the other parts, I definitely saw the barrels. I was driving I was a bit confused at the time.

From the Rettendon turnpike we went back down the A130 to Southend, then at Rawreth traffic lights I turned left, straight to the bottom of that road, we turned right and then took another right turn on or two roads later. As we went up the road there was a pub on the right, the Hungry Horse or Hungry Hippo something like that. I drove into the car park of the pub and parked next to Mick’s Toyota which was on the left and stopped the car. They got out and I was still sitting there.

Mick had opened up his Toyota he told me to go and get in the Toyota which I did, then they were getting changed sort of thing, Mick was taking off his wellies and overalls off over his wellies, then slipping his shoes on, boiler suit and wellies were put in the pick up truck and Jack did the same I think, and then we drove off Mick drove the hi-lux with me in passenger seat and Jack was behind us in the Passat. We drove past the Rettendon lane, then Jack overtook us on the dual carriageway as we were driving slower.

There was some conversation in the car with Mr Steele, he said Jack was very cold hearted I said why, he first of all said when they stopped down the lane a gate had been shut so I got out the range rover I didn’t know where Jack was, then Jack leant into the range rover and shot all three of them, Jack handed Mick a gun and Mick shot them, then he said once that had happened Jack reloaded his gun and shot them all in the back of the head. I cant recall anything else that was said, I did say can we stop and have a drink Mick originally said yes good idea as Mick looked shaken up but when we got to Marks Tey he said best get home straight away. Then I got in my car and headed back to Braintree.

Afterwards I was working at Mick’s new house, like a cottage and there was things spoken there with Jack and Mick. In conversations Mick told me that when he was driving to the lane with them in the Range Rover that Pat’s girlfriend Sarah had rung Pat on the telephone all lovey dovey which he hated, not like when Sarah talked to Mick and Jackie. He was concerned Pat might have said he was with Mick now but he didn’t. Then he hung up the phone just as they were at the lane. I don’t know if it was Mick or Jack said when Pat was shot in the back he started to squeal like a baby and his hand had come up and put his hand through the window.

Also Jack had said to me at some point Mick was really excited when he shot them and saying “give me some more cartridge, give me some more cartridges.” Afterwards Mick said that he hadn’t felt bad about it as Pat deserved it he was such a b........, who would give a f..k that pat was dead as nobody liked him which was quite true probably. There was conversation as why it happened with Mick. Roughly it was that when the money had been returned from the bad drug deal a lot of the money Pat had put into it wasn’t his he had borrowed it and that what Pat decided to do was not pay the people back and blame Mick to say he hadn’t paid them back. Mick knew this because Sarah had told him Pat’s ex girlfriend.

Pat was telling them he hadn’t been paid back and if he wasn’t paid back he would kill Mick.

If Nicholls was being truthful in his testimony about all these car journeys on 6th Dec 1995 which included the M25 and country lanes in rural Essex how come he didn't mention anything about the atrocious weather conditions by way of snow, road conditions and traffic? 

The following news bulletins refers to traffic jams of 20 miles on the M25 with one section completely closed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 16, 2019, 06:29:37 PM
If Nicholls was being truthful in his testimony about all these car journeys on 6th Dec 1995 which included the M25 and country lanes in rural Essex how come he didn't mention anything about the atrocious weather conditions by way of snow, road conditions and traffic? 

The following news bulletins refers to traffic jams of 20 miles on the M25 with one section completely closed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

At the start of his WS he states he could remember the day in question and that he had been working in Sunbury on Thames.  The CoA doc tells us when he left Sunbury he did so by way of the M25 and M11.  He then details various other car journeys including the soc situated in rural Essex but not a word about the severe snow and traffic Does anyone find this suspicious or is it just me?!

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 17, 2019, 11:10:18 PM
This appears to be Steele's alibi from his then common law wife Jackie Street.  It's a WS narrated by the same guy whose vids Myster uploaded. 

Imo it is very weak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkPbFvbSu10

She claimed during the afternoon Whomes called at the home she shared with Steele to drop off a "little" tractor.  She said she thought Whomes was then due to go with Steele to Bulphan to collect a trailer from Whomes' uncle Dennis but it became apparent Whomes was not going (I'm reminded of the joke how many men does it take to change a light bulb) so she accompanied Steele.  She then claims Steele called Whomes on the A127 flyover to seek directions (A127 being close to a location in Nicholls testimony and the tel evidence) to Uncle Dennis!  Why didn't he ask when Whomes was at his home earlier in the day?!  Apparently when they arrived Uncle Dennis was out and bizarrely Steele felt the need to let Whomes know this fact.  What a couple of old women  *^&*

She did however make ref to the weather conditions on a couple of occasions. 

The above is possible but I don't find it at all plausible especially taking into consideration Whomes alibi whereby he states he was near Rettendon to collect a broken down vehicle from Nicholls. 

The geography really tells the story.  The homes and places of work of Steele and Whomes are miles from the areas they happened to be visiting which just happen to fit the tel evidence and close to the homes of those murdered and more importantly the soc.  Its simply not plausible. 

I still find Nicholls testimony unreliable.  Imo either Steele and Whomes are responsible or more likely they were in the area to carry out some drug deal with the murdered trio but not responsible for the murders.  They were then caught between the devil and the deep blue sea!  If they admitted the real reason for being in the area (as per phone evidence) they had to admit to carrying out a drug deal with the murdered trio.  This would mean a potential custodial sentence for drug offences and/or they were putting themselves in the frame for murder.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 18, 2019, 11:17:53 AM
Here's Whomes' alibi in the same format as Steele's above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTXmlJwBSYI

His alibi also puts him in the right place at the right time for the murders but was he there to assist in transporting drugs as opposed to murder!?  His role in the gang seems to have been transport and storage as opposed to procuring and dealing.

Anyway back to Steele his alibi puts him at Whomes' uncle Dennis' place in Bulpham at approx 6.23pm.  Bulpham is very close to the homes of the murdered trio, Lakeside shopping centre where Rolfe's Range Rover was last seen at 6pm, Tucker's stables and the soc.  Distance in miles/mins as follows:

Bulphan - Rolfe's home - Chafford Hundred - 7.8 miles/14mins
Bulphan - Lakeside Shopping Centre - Rolfe's Range Rover on CCTV at 6pm - 9.3 miles/18mins
Bulphan - Tucker's Stables - 4 miles/10mins
Bulphan - Tucker's Home - 9.5 miles/16 mins
Bulphan - Tate's Home - 12 miles/16 mins
Bulphan - Rettendon - 18.5 miles/24 mins

His albi involved taking a trailer to Bulphan. 

Whomes' alibi involved a trailer too but this was to collect Nicholls' car. 

So we have Steele and Whomes in the right place at the right time supposedly with trailers  8)-))) 

This is a little more than suspicious but the question remains were they in the right place at the right time to a) complete a drug deal only, b) murder only or a and b?

And what about the "little" tractor Jackie Street refers to in her alibi for Steele?  What exactly was the purpose of this "little" tractor?  Did it remain at Steele's home or was it taken on the back of one of these trailers for some purpose?

And what about Tucker's girlfriend Anna leaving a message on his mobile about just back from the stables at circa 11pm?  Did she go and check whether drugs had been dropped off or were still there or something similar?

See how close the stables are to Bulphan.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 18, 2019, 11:50:38 AM
Donna Jagger's WS refers to a previous drug deal taking place at the stables:

Craig told me that this was happening and stated that STEELE was happy to continue bringing it in until they were all millionaires. I can not say when the deal took place but I can say that at that time I witnessed the change over of the drugs. Mickey STEEL drove to Longwood Stables in Dry Street, Basildon, Essex, where TUCKER had two horses. I arrived there with Craig and met Tony who was with his horses.

Steele had a long history of criminal convictions going back to 1964 does anyone know what these involved?  Did any involve any sort of violence?  As far as drugs go he seemed to be involved with cannabis (class B).  Any history of class A? 

Whomes apparently taught himself to read and write in prison.  He was by trade a mechanic.  His only previous conviction car fraud. 

Steele was definitely the brains and the leader among Nicholls and Whomes.  It seems the pair looked up to him and he was of course some 30 and 20 years their elder respectively.  If Steele had no previous for violence it would seem strange that at the age of 55 he suddenly decided to go from no violence to murder x 3 especially given he seems to have pretty much lived a life of crime.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 18, 2019, 12:40:27 PM
From the CoA doc a trailer is referred to in connection with a previous drug deal:

The second importation followed a visit to Amsterdam on 3 October. On this occasion Nicholls travelled with his friend Francis Reid. Steele entrusted Nicholls with £60 – 70,000. Nicholls purchased a pair of waders for himself because he had become very wet when helping to push Steele's boat off in August. Nicholls and Reid travelled from Felixstowe to Zeebrugge. He did not tell Reid the reason for the trip. In Amsterdam Nicholls saw Stone and took delivery of a consignment of herbal cannabis. Nicholls and Reid then went to Blankenberg. Reid remained in a bar when Nicholls met Steele who was in his boat. Steele and Nicholls returned to England with the drugs in the boat. Reid was left to make his own way home. The tickets for the crossings were in Reid's name and were paid for on Nicholls' credit card. For the return journey the ticket was amended from two passengers to one. After a difficult crossing, Nicholls and Steele met Whomes who had come to the agreed landing place at Point Clear in his Range-Rover. During the unloading operation the Range-Rover became stuck and Steele went to his mother's house nearby to borrow her car. Steele took the drugs away in the car. Nicholls and Whomes remained and eventually freed the Range-Rover. Steele later returned and he and Whomes obtained a trailer with which they transported the boat to an inland destination. Again Nicholls received a kilo of the drugs as payment and was given a further kilo to sell on behalf of Steele.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 18, 2019, 01:29:00 PM
I don't see why the 6th December wasn't a continuation of the previous arrangements as described by the CoA:

Nicholls, Steele, Whomes and Tate had been in prison together in 1993. Following their respective releases, Nicholls had contact with both Tate and Steele. He did electrical and similar work for Steele. On one occasion he sold a 9 ounce block of cannabis for Steele. In August 1995 Nicholls agreed with Steele that he would play a part in the importation of cannabis. Whomes was also party to the initial discussion. The source of the cannabis was John Stone who ran a café in Amsterdam. Three importations took place between August and November 1995.

So 3 importations took place between Aug and Nov including the 1 where the duff cannabis was destroyed but all got their money back.  Approx 1 per month so they were due another which may have been what was going on on 6th Dec. 

Is there any evidence for a plane and cocaine?  Cannabis can be legally purchased in Holland although I've no idea if laws exist in terms of quantity etc.  Steele was purchasing from a John Stone who run a cafe in Amsterdam and then importing via his boat across the Channel.  Obtaining cocaine and flying it about in planes with clandestine drops, albeit Steele did at one time have a light aircraft and a pilots licence, is surely a whole different ball game? 

Does Steele have any history of violence and/or dealing in class A drugs?
 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 19, 2019, 08:38:12 AM
The following is taken from Judge Hiddens summing up at trial.

Michael Steele's evidence is that he is 55 and has been living with Jacqueline Street as man and wife for a number of years. He said technically he is an engineer by trade. He said he can turn his hand to anything. His strengths include computer aided design and most aspects of engineering, turning and tool making. His work requires a lot of attention to detail and he does such precision work as the making of the model helicopter which you remember seeing, you need not look at now, in Exhibit 260. He designed that from scratch having conceived it on a drawing board.

He turned straight away to the question of his convictions and he said he preferred you to know everything there is and he said he was not a stranger to criminal courts.

Before this court appearance where he now appears at this court he has been before the courts on a number of occasions. He went through them. I will not take you through them all again. They started in 1964 and there was a prison sentence for the second one on 24th March 1964. I will not take through the other four appearances he spoke of in the 1960s. Then he told you about four more appearances between then and 1990. He told you that on 29th June 1990 before Chelmsford Crown Court he was convicted of importation of controlled drugs and was sentenced to 9 years' imprisonment and an order of confiscation made in the sum of nearly £120,000, £119,000 and £150 with 12 months to pay and 3 years' consecutive to that period of 9 years if he did not make the payment.

He told you that in July 1990 he pleaded guilty to a count of importation of controlled drugs. That was 300 kilograms of cannabis resin. He told you about the confiscation order and the prison sentence and he told you about his release date from prison being 3rd June 1993.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 20, 2019, 03:19:43 PM
The following is taken from Judge Hiddens summing up at trial.

Michael Steele's evidence is that he is 55 and has been living with Jacqueline Street as man and wife for a number of years. He said technically he is an engineer by trade. He said he can turn his hand to anything. His strengths include computer aided design and most aspects of engineering, turning and tool making. His work requires a lot of attention to detail and he does such precision work as the making of the model helicopter which you remember seeing, you need not look at now, in Exhibit 260. He designed that from scratch having conceived it on a drawing board.

He turned straight away to the question of his convictions and he said he preferred you to know everything there is and he said he was not a stranger to criminal courts.

Before this court appearance where he now appears at this court he has been before the courts on a number of occasions. He went through them. I will not take you through them all again. They started in 1964 and there was a prison sentence for the second one on 24th March 1964. I will not take through the other four appearances he spoke of in the 1960s. Then he told you about four more appearances between then and 1990. He told you that on 29th June 1990 before Chelmsford Crown Court he was convicted of importation of controlled drugs and was sentenced to 9 years' imprisonment and an order of confiscation made in the sum of nearly £120,000, £119,000 and £150 with 12 months to pay and 3 years' consecutive to that period of 9 years if he did not make the payment.

He told you that in July 1990 he pleaded guilty to a count of importation of controlled drugs. That was 300 kilograms of cannabis resin. He told you about the confiscation order and the prison sentence and he told you about his release date from prison being 3rd June 1993.

So if Steele was in the area on drugs business only and was up-front about this when first spoken with by the police he was potentially looking at a long custodial sentence given his previous and once again losing some or all of his ill-gotten gains.  Coupled with the fact he was putting himself in the frame for murder anyway. 

Steele doesn't seem to fit the profile of someone capable of murder x 3 and Whomes even less so.  And I don't see the motive. 

The CoA doc refers to DC Bird's relationship with Nicholls as a corrupt one.  Bird was charged with conspiracy to supply cannabis and a fellow officer, DS Simpson, was charged with stealing and supplying cannabis but was cleared at trial.

The Sun
http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13944069
TUESDAY, 14 AUGUST, 2001

COPS PAID TO STAY HOME 5yrs

By IAN HEPBURN, Crime Reporter

A POLICE probe into two suspended officers who have sat at home on full
pay for FIVE years has cost the taxpayer £5MILLION, it was revealed
yesterday.

One, Det Con Wolfgang Bird, has just quit with a £250,000 golden
handshake - to the fury of some fellow officers.

Det Sgt Philip Stimpson is STILL on full pay of £34,000 a year.

The two were suspended when Essex police launched an inquiry in the wake
of a gangland execution of three drugs barons.

It centred on DC Bird's alleged association with a supergrass, the key
witness in the trial of the two killers of underworld heavies Pat Tate,
Tony Tucker and Craig Rolfe.

The December 1995 massacre of the trio in a blood-drenched Range Rover
inspired last year's film Essex Boys, starring Sean Bean.

The Sun has learnt neither officer was
immediately served a vital "Regulation 7" notice - the cops' internal
equivalent of formally cautioning a suspect.

An Essex police source described that as a blunder that has haunted the
taxpayer since, adding: "Tot up the cost of all this and you don't get
much change out of £5million."

DC Bird, 44, was charged with conspiracy to supply cannabis but that was
later dropped.

DS Stimpson, 41, charged with stealing and supplying cannabis, was
cleared after a costly trial at Norwich Crown Court.

But the force refused to reinstate them and began disciplinary action.

DC Bird has picked up £130,000 in pay over five years plus housing
allowance payments of £20,000.

DS Stimpson has received £170,000 plus £20,000 for housing.

The original Operation Apache which targeted them at times involved up
to 20 officers.

Full legal teams prepared and presented cases. When both failed, Chief
Constables from outside forces were called in on full pay to run
disciplinary proceedings.

They were accompanied by other officers and secretarial staff and
invariably stayed in hotels.

And legal teams were again commissioned for the prosecution and defence
at two tribunal hearings.

The source said: "It is outrageous taxpayers are still picking up the
bill for this farce.

"It could have been wrapped up in months if handled properly.

"Nothing has come out in the past five years that was not known at the
very beginning."

At his £80,000 home in the village of Earls Colne, Essex, Mr Bird said
yesterday: "I have resigned and we have reached a settlement. I do not
wish to say anything else."

At his £160,000 four-bedroomed home in Colchester, DS Stimpson would not
comment.

Essex police confirmed DS Stimpson faced another disciplinary hearing
this year, adding: "DC Bird has tendered his resignation. A settlement
has been reached."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I assume someone was taking the p re the Mr Justice S Thinks?!

I think there's a lot more to this case than meets the eye  ?>)()<

Imo Steele/Whomes do not fit the profile of a pair carrying out a gangland style killing either practically ie having the necessary skills and/or psychologically.  Nor was there a motive.

As I said previously I think it involves someone highly trained in terms of firearms with a good forensic knowledge including mobile phone data and phone data in general eg from call boxes etc.   

If we have corrupt police officers involved how do we know they were only dealing cannabis and not class A? Did the murdered trio have some dirt on someone?  Was someone being blackmailed.  I'm not necessarily suggesting the aforementioned officers were directly involved but imo there's something untoward here.  8(0(*   I'll tell you why I think so later when I return from the daily run. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 20, 2019, 03:25:27 PM
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.legal/2KNDSOTV1FI

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

The emergence of Nicholls' account

In January 1996 Nicholls became a police informant. His handler was Detective Constable Bird. Their relationship was a corrupt one. We mention it at this stage because in the course of it Nicholls began to impart information about the drug trafficking of Steele, Whomes and others. In February Operation Century began. It was a police operation centred on suspects in respect of the Rettenden murders, including the appellants. There was also an investigation into the activities of Detective Constable Bird.


Just to reiterate again to anyone who might read this the DC Bird above is not the same DC Bird who worked on JB's case.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 20, 2019, 09:45:19 PM
We know for sure Nicholls was a police informant and the relationship he had with DC Bird was a corrupt one.  Although the case against Bird collapsed there was much evidence he was dealing in cannabis.  Did it stop there?  Was he involved with other drugs/class A and/or other crimes?  Were others involved?  Higher ranking officers? Crime bosses?  And/or did Nicholls and/or others have corrupt relationships with other officers?  Tate was very good friends with former police officer Barry Dorman who was also putting in money for drug deals.  Someone was about to be exposed or threats were being made to expose and/or the likes of Tate were becoming too much of a liability.

I believe corrupt police officer(s) were responsible for the murders.  It's the only scenario that explains everything:

- It appears the murdered trio knew and trusted their assailant(s).  Tate and Tucker with phones in hand and Rolfe with his hands on the steering wheel and foot on brake.  They were found unarmed.  If they were working with corrupt officers they would never think they would turn a gun on them.

- The shootings have all the hallmarks of a marksperson who was well trained and capable of carrying out a successful attack ambush style.

- No forensic evidence left at soc.

- Identified location where sound of gunshot would not be out of place.

- The tel evidence in the following gives it away imo along with the geography:

The telephone evidence

At trial the prosecution adduced detailed evidence of telephone calls to and from land lines and mobile phones which belonged to Nicholls, Steele, Whomes, Tate and his associates. The telephone companies provided details as to the time and duration of calls. In addition, this was one of the first cases in which the position of the makers and recipients of mobile phone calls was identified by the location of the cell sites through which the phones had sent or received the call. There was a great deal of factual and expert evidence on this subject at the trial. We shall have to return to it later as it gave rise to one of the bases upon which the Criminal Cases Review Commission referred the matter to this Court. At the moment it is sufficient to summarise some of what it established. It included telephone contact between Nicholls and Steele on 6 December while Nicholls was still in the Sunbury area in the middle of the day. It also established contact between Steele's mobile phone and that of Whomes at 14.11. Around 14.30 there were calls from a telephone kiosk near a public house close to where Whomes was working. Two of the calls were to the mobile phone of Tucker and one (a missed call) was to the mobile phone of Tate.  At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone. There was other telephone contact between Nicholls and Steele, and Steele and Whomes in the course of the afternoon. At 17.03 a call was made from a telephone kiosk near The Halfway House public house on the A127 to Tate's mobile phone. Whomes telephoned Steele via the mobile phones at 17.12. At 18.03 and 18.09 calls were recorded between Steele's mobile phone and that of Whomes. At 18.44 there was a call of almost 4 minutes duration from an address in Basildon where Sarah Saunders was and the mobile phone of Tate. The case for the prosecution was that it was the call overheard by Steele as described by Nicholls at a time when Steele and Tate were in or near the Range Rover in the farm track at Rettenden. That call ended at about 18.48. At 18.59 two short calls were made from Whomes' mobile phone to that of Nicholls. The case for the prosecution was that they, or one of them (they lasted one and four seconds respectively) included the 'pick-up' call. Although there was no medical or scientific evidence as to the time of death of the three deceased, the case for the prosecution was that the murders took place between 18.48 and 18.59 and that the telephone evidence supported this. It is a fact that the mobile phones of the deceased men did not make or receive effective calls after that time. Although their bodies were not found until the following day, they had been expected home before 20.00hrs because they had social engagements. Both Tate and Tucker died with their mobile phones in their hands.

The murders were obviously premeditated and I think the plan all along was to implicate Steele/Whomes.  Were Steele/Whomes aware of Nicholls relationship with at least one corrupt officer?  Was Nicholls feeding info back to Steele/Whomes enabling Steele to avoid detection when landing on the coast in his boat?  Those who Nicholls was informing were obviously one step ahead knowing who was up to what, where, where and how etc.

The calls from the phone boxes, highlighted above, lend support to my theory:

- Around 14.30pm 2 calls were made from a telephone box near a pub close to where Whomes was working.  Two calls to Tucker's mobile and one to Tate's which was missed.  At the time Whomes was working in a place called Clayden off the A14 towards Stowmarket which is miles from other areas associated with the murdered trio.  The impression here is that Whomes was in contact with Tate and Tucker via a call box to avoid leaving an audit trail.  Afaik Whomes didn't even know Tucker and in any event Steele did all the arranging.

- At 14.32 there was a telephone call to kiosk in Basildon near to where Tate lived.  Proabably one police officer phoning another in an attempt to establish Tate's whereabouts.

- About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same phone box to Nicholls - the supergrass/informant in contact with his handler.

- At 17.03 a call was made from a phone box near the Halfway House on the A127 to Tate's mobile. 

- Sarah Saunders said during her police interviews when she last spoke with Tate on his mobile just before it was thought he was murdered he said 'I'm with some people' and she said had he been with Steele he would have said 'I'm with Mick' who was known to both of them. 

We know for sure all these calls from phone boxes cannot have been made by Steele/Whomes since mobile phone evidence puts them elsewhere.  Other criminals who may have had reason to want to murder the trio would not be bothered attempting to implicate others.  Someone was phoning members of both gangs via phone boxes:

Tate and Tucker from the Rolfe, Tate and Tucker gang

And

Nicholls from the Nicholls, Steele and Whomes gang

I think the someone was 1 or more corrupt officers who were able to orchestrate the whole thing ie get everyone in situ to murder Rolfe, Tate and Tucker and lay the blame on Steele and Whomes.

I don't think Steele/Whomes were in the frame early on.  If they were why did police officers investigate Leah Betts father, Paul Betts.  And why didn't the investigation throw up any cctv footage of cars Steele and Whomes were known to have access to including Nicholls?

Corrupt police officers would know which roads/pubs to use/quote to avoid detection ie lack of cctv footage.

To resort to murder I think the corrupt officers were up to their necks in it and I think Tate/Tucker were also working with the same officers Nicholls was working with.  Remember Tate and Nicholls were pals who met in Hollesley Bay prison.  I believe Tate started using heroin whilst at HB.  Were corrupt officers supplying prison guards? 

 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 20, 2019, 09:53:07 PM
Bearing in mind also the accounts from Donna Jagger and Nicholls are an hour out in terms of placing Whomes/Steele and the murdered trio at soc. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 20, 2019, 11:06:22 PM
I was looking to see whether corrupt police officers Bird and Stimpson were firearms trained.  The following link is down but the search shows the following which may or may not be referring to them in terms of firearms:

"Two Firearms cops had their gun licences revoked because of ' aggressive ...... DETECTIVE SERGEANT PHILIP STIMPSON and DETECTIVE CONSTABLE ..."

http://www.bentlawyersandcops.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 21, 2019, 08:02:09 AM
I was looking to see whether corrupt police officers Bird and Stimpson were firearms trained.  The following link is down but the search shows the following which may or may not be referring to them in terms of firearms:

"Two Firearms cops had their gun licences revoked because of ' aggressive ...... DETECTIVE SERGEANT PHILIP STIMPSON and DETECTIVE CONSTABLE ..."

http://www.bentlawyersandcops.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi (http://www.bentlawyersandcops.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi)
The first part of the sentence might refer to different officers -

 ELITE CRIME SQUAD OFFICERS are under investigation after a brawl in the bar of the Regent in Chelmsford, where they were holding a party. It started after a National Crime Squad Detective abused a girl in the cloakroom and began fighting with security at the hotel. The other officers, all much the worse for heavy drinking piled in and a huge fight followed. One senior officer of twenty years experience told the Essex tactical support unit to get lost when they were called to intervene. 40 officers were involved including a Chief Inspector and Two Superintendents. Two Firearms cops had their gun licences revoked because of 'aggressive behaviour shown in the fracas’.

The second part to another incident  -

' Drug dealing Detectives appear in court ' DETECTIVE SERGEANT PHILIP STIMPSON and DETECTIVE CONSTABLE WOLFGANG BIRD
appeared before the court charged with intent to supply drugs, and also conspiracy to supply cannabis and defraud a shop out of �23,400.
They were both remanded in custody by magistrates at Southend. Both cops worked at the Braintree CID in Essex -- and have 31 years of police service between them?

 
 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 21, 2019, 08:14:09 AM
??/??/?? - INDICTMENT OF WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD (1)

INDICTMENT
IN THE CROWN COURT AT LEWES
THE QUEEN -v- WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD

WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD is charged as follows:-

COUNT ONE
STATEMENT OF OFFENCE
OBTAINING SERVICES BY DECEPTION, contrary to Section 1(1) of the Theft Act 1978.

PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD on a day between the 1st day of February 1993 and the 28th day of February 1993 dishonestly obtained services from Essex County Council, namely an assisted car purchase scheme loan, by deception, namely by falsely representing that the vehicle, Ford Sapphire GLX, index G780 DOO, was to be purchased for £4995, when the true cost was £3250.

COUNT TWO
STATEMENT OF OFFENCE
FURNISHING FALSE INFORMATION contrary to Section 17(1) (b) of the Theft Act 1968.

PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD on a day between the 1st day of February 1993 and the 28th day of February 1993 dishonestly with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another in furnishing information for a car loan application produced or made use of a document made or required for an accounting purpose, namely a used vehicle trade sale document for £4995, which to his knowledge was or may have been misleading, false or deceptive in a material particular, in that it purported to show that a vehicle, Ford Sapphire GLX, index G780 DOO, was to be purchased for £4995.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 21, 2019, 08:15:39 AM
??/??/?? - INDICTMENT OF WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD (2)

INDICTMENT
IN THE CROWN COURT AT LEWES
THE QUEEN -v- WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD

WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD is charged as follows:-

STATEMENT OF OFFENCE
THEFT contrary to Section 1(1) of the Theft Act 1968.

PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD on a day between the 19th day of September 1994 and the 19th day of July 1996 stole an ornamental street lamp of a value of approximately £200 belonging to Essex Police.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 21, 2019, 08:16:56 AM
??/??/?? - INDICTMENT OF PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON

INDICTMENT
IN THE CROWN COURT AT NORWICH
THE QUEEN -v- PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON
PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON is charged as follows:-

COUNT ONE
STATEMENT OF OFFENCE
THEFT, contrary to Section 1(1) of the Theft Act 1968

PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON on a day between the 27th day of September 1995 and the 1st day of February 1996, stole a controlled drug of Class B, namely herbal cannabis, belonging to Essex Police.

COUNT TWO
STATEMENT OF OFFENCE
SUPPLYING A CONTROLLED DRUG OF CLASS B TO ANOTHER, contrary to Section 4 (3) (a) of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971

PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON on a day between the 27th day of September 1995 and the 1st day of February 1996, supplied a controlled drug of Class B, namely herbal cannabis, to Louis Murray Wilkie Straiton, in contravention of Section 4(1) of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

COUNT THREE
STATEMENT OF OFFENCE
SUPPLYING A CONTROLLED DRUG OF CLASS B TO ANOTHER, contrary to Section 4(3) (a) of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971

PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON on a day on or about the 1st day of March 1996, supplied a controlled drug of Class B, namely cannabis resin, to Philip John Morley, in contravention of Section 4(1) of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 21, 2019, 08:20:35 AM
??/??/?? - INDICTMENT OF PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON

INDICTMENT
IN THE CROWN COURT AT NORWICH
THE QUEEN -v- PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON
PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON is charged as follows:-

COUNT ONE
STATEMENT OF OFFENCE
THEFT, contrary to Section 1(1) of the Theft Act 1968

PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON on a day between the 27th day of September 1995 and the 1st day of February 1996, stole a controlled drug of Class B, namely herbal cannabis, belonging to Essex Police.

COUNT TWO
STATEMENT OF OFFENCE
SUPPLYING A CONTROLLED DRUG OF CLASS B TO ANOTHER, contrary to Section 4 (3) (a) of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971

PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
PHILIP RONALD STIMPSON on a day between the 27th day of September
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 10:47:05 AM
The first part of the sentence might refer to different officers -

 ELITE CRIME SQUAD OFFICERS are under investigation after a brawl in the bar of the Regent in Chelmsford, where they were holding a party. It started after a National Crime Squad Detective abused a girl in the cloakroom and began fighting with security at the hotel. The other officers, all much the worse for heavy drinking piled in and a huge fight followed. One senior officer of twenty years experience told the Essex tactical support unit to get lost when they were called to intervene. 40 officers were involved including a Chief Inspector and Two Superintendents. Two Firearms cops had their gun licences revoked because of 'aggressive behaviour shown in the fracas’.

The second part to another incident  -

' Drug dealing Detectives appear in court ' DETECTIVE SERGEANT PHILIP STIMPSON and DETECTIVE CONSTABLE WOLFGANG BIRD
appeared before the court charged with intent to supply drugs, and also conspiracy to supply cannabis and defraud a shop out of �23,400.
They were both remanded in custody by magistrates at Southend. Both cops worked at the Braintree CID in Essex -- and have 31 years of police service between them?


Stimpson was 36 and Bird 39 at the time they were investigated so if they had 31 years police service between them, and assuming they joined at 18 yoa, they must have done something prior to joining as this leaves some 8 years unaccounted for?  Military?

There's much evidence of criminality including dealing cannabis, albeit it appears the cases against them collapsed  (perhaps no surprises there) and for sure Bird was exchanging info with at least one criminal ie Nicholls.  Was this the full extent of it?  Would they personally turn their hands to murder in an attempt to save their livelihoods and reputations?  And/or did they assist others who carried out the murders other officers or more likely criminals (and those associated with them) who were much higher up the chain than the likes of Rolfe, Tait, Tucker, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 11:23:09 AM
Is this just a coincidence or could it be connected?

Peter Corry (part of the Nicholls, Steele, Whomes gang) along with the aforementioned were arrested on 13th May '96:

On 13 May 1996 Nicholls, Steele, Whomes and Corry were arrested. Shortly after his arrest, Nicholls asked to speak to Detective Constable Bird but his request was refused. Detective Constable Bird had also been arrested. When first interviewed by Detective Constables Brown and Winstone on the evening of 13 May and the afternoon of 14 May in the presence of a duty solicitor Nicholls made no comment. However, on the evening of 14 May Nicholls asked to speak to a senior officer and he was then seen by Detective Superintendent Barrington. It was confirmed to him that Detective Constable Bird was in custody. Nicholls indicated his willingness to talk about "drugs jobs" and said that "other more serious things would be disclosed". He asked about protection in and out of prison. He said that he would be giving information about the illegal activities of police officers but that he had not said anything so far to Detective Constables Brown and Winstone because he did not know if he could trust them. Detective Superintendent Barrington assured him that they were trustworthy. He also told Nicholls that he would have to accept responsibility for whatever he had done and would have to accept any sentence eventually passed upon him. Late on the night of 14 May there began a series of interviews between Detective Constables Brown and Winstone and Nicholls.

The day after Nicholl's revelations an associate of Tait's by the name of John Marshall goes missing and is found a few days later dead in the back of his Range Rover shot twice: head and chest.  He was last seen in Pitsea around midday.  He was then due in Kent and back in Pitsea for 3pm.  According to the reconstruction the last sighting of John Marshall/Range Rover was leaving a salvage yard at Pitsea he was then going on to Kent.  This would surely take him over the Dartford crossing and yet no cctv?  The Dartford crossing always has a police presence and lots of cctv.  Exactly the same as the Rettendon murder case no cctv of the vehicles used other than cctv of Rolfe's Range Rover leaving Lakeside which may have been the property of the shopping centre as opposed to highways. 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Y5T2UI4gA

This is well dodgy  ?>)()<
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 11:44:46 AM
Apparently John Marshall sold a car to Kenneth Noye with false papers and it was thought Noye might have been behind the murder following the murder of Stephen Cameron.  But this can't be so as Stephen Cameron was murdered on 19th May 1996 and John Marshall went missing on 15th May 1996.  In any event what would be the point in Noye hitting on Marshall in an attempt to silence him over a vehicle only to involve others and murder?

Maybe Noye is in some way involved with Rettendon murders/bent Essex cops/Nicholls revelations and the murder of John Marshall and this is the reason he lost his rag with Stephen Cameron.  Maybe the reason he fled the country wasn't just over the murder of Stephen Cameron but Nicholls spilling the beans about the activities of bent Essex cops which if they were unable to contain would end up implicating him!   ?>)()<
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 22, 2019, 12:02:26 PM
Apparently John Marshall sold a car to Kenneth Noye with false papers and it was thought Noye might have been behind the murder following the murder of Stephen Cameron.  But this can't be so as Stephen Cameron was murdered on 19th May 1996 and John Marshall went missing on 15th May 1996.  In any event what would be the point in Noye hitting on Marshall in an attempt to silence him over a vehicle only to involve others and murder?

Maybe Noye is in some way involved with Rettendon murders/bent Essex cops/Nicholls revelations and the murder of John Marshall and this is the reason he lost his rag with Stephen Cameron.  Maybe the reason he fled the country wasn't just over the murder of Stephen Cameron but Nicholls spilling the beans about the activities of bent Essex cops which if they were unable to contain would end up implicating him!   ?>)()<
I'm not aware of the nature of the association between Marshall and any of those involved in the Rettendon case, or even if there was any. 

Holly, the point you make about cctv is an interesting one.  How prevelent was cctv, back in the mid nineties?  If for instance, cameras were installed at the Dartford crossing, how long would the tapes have been kept for? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 22, 2019, 12:17:40 PM
So if Steele was in the area on drugs business only and was up-front about this when first spoken with by the police he was potentially looking at a long custodial sentence given his previous and once again losing some or all of his ill-gotten gains.  Coupled with the fact he was putting himself in the frame for murder anyway. 

Steele doesn't seem to fit the profile of someone capable of murder x 3 and Whomes even less so.  And I don't see the motive. 

The CoA doc refers to DC Bird's relationship with Nicholls as a corrupt one.  Bird was charged with conspiracy to supply cannabis and a fellow officer, DS Simpson, was charged with stealing and supplying cannabis but was cleared at trial.

The Sun
http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13944069
TUESDAY, 14 AUGUST, 2001

COPS PAID TO STAY HOME 5yrs

By IAN HEPBURN, Crime Reporter

A POLICE probe into two suspended officers who have sat at home on full
pay for FIVE years has cost the taxpayer £5MILLION, it was revealed
yesterday.

One, Det Con Wolfgang Bird, has just quit with a £250,000 golden
handshake - to the fury of some fellow officers.

Det Sgt Philip Stimpson is STILL on full pay of £34,000 a year.

The two were suspended when Essex police launched an inquiry in the wake
of a gangland execution of three drugs barons.

It centred on DC Bird's alleged association with a supergrass, the key
witness in the trial of the two killers of underworld heavies Pat Tate,
Tony Tucker and Craig Rolfe.

The December 1995 massacre of the trio in a blood-drenched Range Rover
inspired last year's film Essex Boys, starring Sean Bean.

The Sun has learnt neither officer was
immediately served a vital "Regulation 7" notice - the cops' internal
equivalent of formally cautioning a suspect.

An Essex police source described that as a blunder that has haunted the
taxpayer since, adding: "Tot up the cost of all this and you don't get
much change out of £5million."

DC Bird, 44, was charged with conspiracy to supply cannabis but that was
later dropped.

DS Stimpson, 41, charged with stealing and supplying cannabis, was
cleared after a costly trial at Norwich Crown Court.

But the force refused to reinstate them and began disciplinary action.

DC Bird has picked up £130,000 in pay over five years plus housing
allowance payments of £20,000.

DS Stimpson has received £170,000 plus £20,000 for housing.

The original Operation Apache which targeted them at times involved up
to 20 officers.

Full legal teams prepared and presented cases. When both failed, Chief
Constables from outside forces were called in on full pay to run
disciplinary proceedings.

They were accompanied by other officers and secretarial staff and
invariably stayed in hotels.

And legal teams were again commissioned for the prosecution and defence
at two tribunal hearings.

The source said: "It is outrageous taxpayers are still picking up the
bill for this farce.

"It could have been wrapped up in months if handled properly.

"Nothing has come out in the past five years that was not known at the
very beginning."

At his £80,000 home in the village of Earls Colne, Essex, Mr Bird said
yesterday: "I have resigned and we have reached a settlement. I do not
wish to say anything else."

At his £160,000 four-bedroomed home in Colchester, DS Stimpson would not
comment.

Essex police confirmed DS Stimpson faced another disciplinary hearing
this year, adding: "DC Bird has tendered his resignation. A settlement
has been reached."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I assume someone was taking the p re the Mr Justice S Thinks?!

I think there's a lot more to this case than meets the eye  ?>)()<

Imo Steele/Whomes do not fit the profile of a pair carrying out a gangland style killing either practically ie having the necessary skills and/or psychologically.  Nor was there a motive.

As I said previously I think it involves someone highly trained in terms of firearms with a good forensic knowledge including mobile phone data and phone data in general eg from call boxes etc.   

If we have corrupt police officers involved how do we know they were only dealing cannabis and not class A? Did the murdered trio have some dirt on someone?  Was someone being blackmailed.  I'm not necessarily suggesting the aforementioned officers were directly involved but imo there's something untoward here.  8(0(*   I'll tell you why I think so later when I return from the daily run.
According to evidence given by Saunders and Nicholls, Steele had been warned about a threat on his life by Tate as a result of the dodgy consignment of cannabis.  If true, there is your motive. 

Although found not guilty on the firearms charge, a shotgun (albeit, not the one used in the murders) was found at Steeles property. 

Interestingly, Steeles evidence at trial was that it was Nicholls life that had been threatened.  This threat had come from Tate after he had been supplied dodgy cannabis by Nicholls.  Steele claimed that he was acting as an intermediary.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 01:33:45 PM
I'm not aware of the nature of the association between Marshall and any of those involved in the Rettendon case, or even if there was any. 

Holly, the point you make about cctv is an interesting one.  How prevelent was cctv, back in the mid nineties?  If for instance, cameras were installed at the Dartford crossing, how long would the tapes have been kept for?

According to the following article John Marshall was a former business partner to Tate:

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5529696.little-burstead-clear-my-murdered-brother/

John Marshall's home was in Little Burstead.  He was last seen alive in his Range Rover in Pitsea.  The geographical closeness of these places to places connected with the Rettendon murders is imo striking and coupled with the fact Marshall disappeared a day after Nicholls revelations and Bird's arrest is probably no coincidence. 

CCTV was very prevalent mid 90's especially around the M25 and Dartford crossing. 

The following vid re Noye shows how extensive cctv was around the M25 and yet following the murder of Stephen Cameron on the Swanley roundabout, busiest roundabout in the world apparently, the camera was not set up to record and on the day in question was not working properly  8(0(*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck9ZQ8r2Dkw

As we know Noye was eventually convicted for the murder of Stephen Cameron but this appears to have been down to the officer in charge maintaining a high level of confidentiality and involving as few officers as possible.  Was he really concerned about the press or other officers leaking to Noye?

Can police officers really be so stupid as to think they could enter Noye's property to place him under surveillance and he wouldn't have attack dogs?  Surely someone would think this through beforehand?  Maybe they did and at the time he didn't have attack dogs but thereafter installed some? 

I also find it strange that the vehicle couldn't be quickly traced from the part vrn and general description. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 02:06:04 PM
According to evidence given by Saunders and Nicholls, Steele had been warned about a threat on his life by Tate as a result of the dodgy consignment of cannabis.  If true, there is your motive. 

Although found not guilty on the firearms charge, a shotgun (albeit, not the one used in the murders) was found at Steeles property. 

Interestingly, Steeles evidence at trial was that it was Nicholls life that had been threatened.  This threat had come from Tate after he had been supplied dodgy cannabis by Nicholls.  Steele claimed that he was acting as an intermediary.

But those close to Tate said there was no animosity between him and Steele.  Former police officer turned used car salesman, Barry Dorman, who was apparently a "father figure" to Tait was one of the party who went to Holland to help bring back the cash in respect of the dodgy cannabis:

Car dealer Barry Dorman was a close friend and "father figure" to Tate and gave evidence at the trial about meeting him and Steele in Belgium a week before the murders.

At the meeting Steele handed over £70,000, which police claimed he owed to Tate, Tucker and Rolfe over a bungled drug deal.

'No ill feeling'

Mr Dorman, in an exclusive interview with BBC News Online, said: "They were chatting and laughing with each other and there was no suggestion of any ill feeling between them.

"Mick Steele gave Pat the £70,000 and Pat gave Mick £2,000 in wages, which suggests Mick was just the gopher."

Mr Dorman, an ex-policeman, said: "I don't believe the coppers were bent but Darren Nicholls may well have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2604343.stm?storyLink=%2523

And at trial Sarah Saunders told the court similar.  In her WS's she says she met with Steele to tell him Tate was talking about sending Steele up North and him not coming back.  She said she didn't really take him seriously as he talked a lot of nonsense a lot of the time and bearing in mind his brain was scrambled from all the drugs.  The pm revealed heroin, cocaine and steroids.

This is just something the police seized on to fit up Steele and Whomes. 

The dodgy cannabis deal was resolved to everyone's satisfaction in terms of the murdered trio, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes.   But it didn't just involve this handful of people.  Lets supposing Tate decided not to make good to those who put up cash eg corrupt police officers who may have in turn been procuring for other criminals.  Then there's Nicholls who was told by Steele to destroy 60 kilos of the dodgy batch.  He claims he buried it in a sandpit in Braintree.  Did he?  Or did he sell it on to the bent cops who may have sold it on to other criminals.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 02:26:13 PM
We know for sure Nicholls was a police informant and the relationship he had with DC Bird was a corrupt one.  Although the case against Bird collapsed there was much evidence he was dealing in cannabis.  Did it stop there?  Was he involved with other drugs/class A and/or other crimes?  Were others involved?  Higher ranking officers? Crime bosses?  And/or did Nicholls and/or others have corrupt relationships with other officers?  Tate was very good friends with former police officer Barry Dorman who was also putting in money for drug deals.  Someone was about to be exposed or threats were being made to expose and/or the likes of Tate were becoming too much of a liability.

I believe corrupt police officer(s) were responsible for the murders.  It's the only scenario that explains everything:

- It appears the murdered trio knew and trusted their assailant(s).  Tate and Tucker with phones in hand and Rolfe with his hands on the steering wheel and foot on brake.  They were found unarmed.  If they were working with corrupt officers they would never think they would turn a gun on them.

- The shootings have all the hallmarks of a marksperson who was well trained and capable of carrying out a successful attack ambush style.

- No forensic evidence left at soc.

- Identified location where sound of gunshot would not be out of place.

- The tel evidence in the following gives it away imo along with the geography:

The telephone evidence

At trial the prosecution adduced detailed evidence of telephone calls to and from land lines and mobile phones which belonged to Nicholls, Steele, Whomes, Tate and his associates. The telephone companies provided details as to the time and duration of calls. In addition, this was one of the first cases in which the position of the makers and recipients of mobile phone calls was identified by the location of the cell sites through which the phones had sent or received the call. There was a great deal of factual and expert evidence on this subject at the trial. We shall have to return to it later as it gave rise to one of the bases upon which the Criminal Cases Review Commission referred the matter to this Court. At the moment it is sufficient to summarise some of what it established. It included telephone contact between Nicholls and Steele on 6 December while Nicholls was still in the Sunbury area in the middle of the day. It also established contact between Steele's mobile phone and that of Whomes at 14.11. Around 14.30 there were calls from a telephone kiosk near a public house close to where Whomes was working. Two of the calls were to the mobile phone of Tucker and one (a missed call) was to the mobile phone of Tate.  At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone. There was other telephone contact between Nicholls and Steele, and Steele and Whomes in the course of the afternoon. At 17.03 a call was made from a telephone kiosk near The Halfway House public house on the A127 to Tate's mobile phone. Whomes telephoned Steele via the mobile phones at 17.12. At 18.03 and 18.09 calls were recorded between Steele's mobile phone and that of Whomes. At 18.44 there was a call of almost 4 minutes duration from an address in Basildon where Sarah Saunders was and the mobile phone of Tate. The case for the prosecution was that it was the call overheard by Steele as described by Nicholls at a time when Steele and Tate were in or near the Range Rover in the farm track at Rettenden. That call ended at about 18.48. At 18.59 two short calls were made from Whomes' mobile phone to that of Nicholls. The case for the prosecution was that they, or one of them (they lasted one and four seconds respectively) included the 'pick-up' call. Although there was no medical or scientific evidence as to the time of death of the three deceased, the case for the prosecution was that the murders took place between 18.48 and 18.59 and that the telephone evidence supported this. It is a fact that the mobile phones of the deceased men did not make or receive effective calls after that time. Although their bodies were not found until the following day, they had been expected home before 20.00hrs because they had social engagements. Both Tate and Tucker died with their mobile phones in their hands.

The murders were obviously premeditated and I think the plan all along was to implicate Steele/Whomes.  Were Steele/Whomes aware of Nicholls relationship with at least one corrupt officer?  Was Nicholls feeding info back to Steele/Whomes enabling Steele to avoid detection when landing on the coast in his boat?  Those who Nicholls was informing were obviously one step ahead knowing who was up to what, where, where and how etc.

The calls from the phone boxes, highlighted above, lend support to my theory:

- Around 14.30pm 2 calls were made from a telephone box near a pub close to where Whomes was working.  Two calls to Tucker's mobile and one to Tate's which was missed.  At the time Whomes was working in a place called Clayden off the A14 towards Stowmarket which is miles from other areas associated with the murdered trio.  The impression here is that Whomes was in contact with Tate and Tucker via a call box to avoid leaving an audit trail.  Afaik Whomes didn't even know Tucker and in any event Steele did all the arranging.

- At 14.32 there was a telephone call to kiosk in Basildon near to where Tate lived.  Proabably one police officer phoning another in an attempt to establish Tate's whereabouts.

- About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same phone box to Nicholls - the supergrass/informant in contact with his handler.

- At 17.03 a call was made from a phone box near the Halfway House on the A127 to Tate's mobile. 

- Sarah Saunders said during her police interviews when she last spoke with Tate on his mobile just before it was thought he was murdered he said 'I'm with some people' and she said had he been with Steele he would have said 'I'm with Mick' who was known to both of them. 

We know for sure all these calls from phone boxes cannot have been made by Steele/Whomes since mobile phone evidence puts them elsewhere.  Other criminals who may have had reason to want to murder the trio would not be bothered attempting to implicate others.  Someone was phoning members of both gangs via phone boxes:

Tate and Tucker from the Rolfe, Tate and Tucker gang

And

Nicholls from the Nicholls, Steele and Whomes gang

I think the someone was 1 or more corrupt officers who were able to orchestrate the whole thing ie get everyone in situ to murder Rolfe, Tate and Tucker and lay the blame on Steele and Whomes.

I don't think Steele/Whomes were in the frame early on.  If they were why did police officers investigate Leah Betts father, Paul Betts.  And why didn't the investigation throw up any cctv footage of cars Steele and Whomes were known to have access to including Nicholls?

Corrupt police officers would know which roads/pubs to use/quote to avoid detection ie lack of cctv footage.

To resort to murder I think the corrupt officers were up to their necks in it and I think Tate/Tucker were also working with the same officers Nicholls was working with.  Remember Tate and Nicholls were pals who met in Hollesley Bay prison.  I believe Tate started using heroin whilst at HB.  Were corrupt officers supplying prison guards?   

Going back to the phone evidence highlighted above I was wondering why those who fitted up Steele/Whomes decided to use a phone box near Whomes' place of work and not try to implicate Steele in this way when Steele was the arranger who had contact with Tait/Tucker.  Then I realised at the time Whomes was employed by G&T commercials stowmarket and his whereabouts known to those who wanted to set him up.  Whereas afaik Steele was not employed at the time and therefore his whereabouts were unknown. 

Imo it's the phone box evidence that gives it away.  Did whoever made the call to Nicholls from a phone box make a mistake, become complacent or it was done out of necessity to tie up people being in the right place at the right time. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 22, 2019, 04:34:26 PM
But those close to Tate said there was no animosity between him and Steele.  Former police officer turned used car salesman, Barry Dorman, who was apparently a "father figure" to Tait was one of the party who went to Holland to help bring back the cash in respect of the dodgy cannabis:

Car dealer Barry Dorman was a close friend and "father figure" to Tate and gave evidence at the trial about meeting him and Steele in Belgium a week before the murders.

At the meeting Steele handed over £70,000, which police claimed he owed to Tate, Tucker and Rolfe over a bungled drug deal.

'No ill feeling'

Mr Dorman, in an exclusive interview with BBC News Online, said: "They were chatting and laughing with each other and there was no suggestion of any ill feeling between them.

"Mick Steele gave Pat the £70,000 and Pat gave Mick £2,000 in wages, which suggests Mick was just the gopher."

Mr Dorman, an ex-policeman, said: "I don't believe the coppers were bent but Darren Nicholls may well have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2604343.stm?storyLink=%2523

And at trial Sarah Saunders told the court similar.  In her WS's she says she met with Steele to tell him Tate was talking about sending Steele up North and him not coming back.  She said she didn't really take him seriously as he talked a lot of nonsense a lot of the time and bearing in mind his brain was scrambled from all the drugs.  The pm revealed heroin, cocaine and steroids.

This is just something the police seized on to fit up Steele and Whomes. 

The dodgy cannabis deal was resolved to everyone's satisfaction in terms of the murdered trio, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes.   But it didn't just involve this handful of people.  Lets supposing Tate decided not to make good to those who put up cash eg corrupt police officers who may have in turn been procuring for other criminals.  Then there's Nicholls who was told by Steele to destroy 60 kilos of the dodgy batch.  He claims he buried it in a sandpit in Braintree.  Did he?  Or did he sell it on to the bent cops who may have sold it on to other criminals.
The story that Dorman and Steele concocted, was that Steele was helping Nicholls out, and it was Nicholls who masterminded the importations.  Having seen him re count this tale in one of the many inaccurate films made on the subject, I found his claims to be nothing short of laughable.  The suggestion that Steele was gophering for Nicholls is also just that, laughable.

Having read Nicholls extremely detailed accounts of the importations, I have absolutely no doubt that Steele was in fact the mastermind.  There was also plenty of documentary evidence to support Nicholls claims.

The only explanation that Steele could find, to explain away the evidence put before him, was to suggest that he was working for Nicholls.  The jury would have found this impossible to believe.  It must have destroyed his credibility in court.   

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 22, 2019, 04:39:03 PM
But those close to Tate said there was no animosity between him and Steele.  Former police officer turned used car salesman, Barry Dorman, who was apparently a "father figure" to Tait was one of the party who went to Holland to help bring back the cash in respect of the dodgy cannabis:

Car dealer Barry Dorman was a close friend and "father figure" to Tate and gave evidence at the trial about meeting him and Steele in Belgium a week before the murders.

At the meeting Steele handed over £70,000, which police claimed he owed to Tate, Tucker and Rolfe over a bungled drug deal.

'No ill feeling'

Mr Dorman, in an exclusive interview with BBC News Online, said: "They were chatting and laughing with each other and there was no suggestion of any ill feeling between them.

"Mick Steele gave Pat the £70,000 and Pat gave Mick £2,000 in wages, which suggests Mick was just the gopher."

Mr Dorman, an ex-policeman, said: "I don't believe the coppers were bent but Darren Nicholls may well have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2604343.stm?storyLink=%2523

And at trial Sarah Saunders told the court similar.  In her WS's she says she met with Steele to tell him Tate was talking about sending Steele up North and him not coming back.  She said she didn't really take him seriously as he talked a lot of nonsense a lot of the time and bearing in mind his brain was scrambled from all the drugs.  The pm revealed heroin, cocaine and steroids.

This is just something the police seized on to fit up Steele and Whomes. 

The dodgy cannabis deal was resolved to everyone's satisfaction in terms of the murdered trio, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes.   But it didn't just involve this handful of people.  Lets supposing Tate decided not to make good to those who put up cash eg corrupt police officers who may have in turn been procuring for other criminals.  Then there's Nicholls who was told by Steele to destroy 60 kilos of the dodgy batch.  He claims he buried it in a sandpit in Braintree.  Did he?  Or did he sell it on to the bent cops who may have sold it on to other criminals.
Nicholls threw it in a pond.  The cannabis was later recovered by Essex Police.  Nicholls was paid a £400 reward for providing the information to Police, £50 of which he gave to Wolfgang Bird. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 22, 2019, 04:47:43 PM
Going back to the phone evidence highlighted above I was wondering why those who fitted up Steele/Whomes decided to use a phone box near Whomes' place of work and not try to implicate Steele in this way when Steele was the arranger who had contact with Tait/Tucker.  Then I realised at the time Whomes was employed by G&T commercials stowmarket and his whereabouts known to those who wanted to set him up.  Whereas afaik Steele was not employed at the time and therefore his whereabouts were unknown. 

Imo it's the phone box evidence that gives it away.  Did whoever made the call to Nicholls from a phone box make a mistake, become complacent or it was done out of necessity to tie up people being in the right place at the right time.
Steele was a telephone box man.  He was quite sure that his telephone was bugged.  When Police searched his house they found an anti bugging device. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 22, 2019, 04:53:50 PM
Going back to the phone evidence highlighted above I was wondering why those who fitted up Steele/Whomes decided to use a phone box near Whomes' place of work and not try to implicate Steele in this way when Steele was the arranger who had contact with Tait/Tucker.  Then I realised at the time Whomes was employed by G&T commercials stowmarket and his whereabouts known to those who wanted to set him up.  Whereas afaik Steele was not employed at the time and therefore his whereabouts were unknown. 

Imo it's the phone box evidence that gives it away.  Did whoever made the call to Nicholls from a phone box make a mistake, become complacent or it was done out of necessity to tie up people being in the right place at the right time.
Are you suggesting that someone else was responsible for the murders, and before they carried them out, they used telephone boxes to try and set Steele and Whomes up? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 09:45:46 PM
The story that Dorman and Steele concocted, was that Steele was helping Nicholls out, and it was Nicholls who masterminded the importations.  Having seen him re count this tale in one of the many inaccurate films made on the subject, I found his claims to be nothing short of laughable.  The suggestion that Steele was gophering for Nicholls is also just that, laughable.

Having read Nicholls extremely detailed accounts of the importations, I have absolutely no doubt that Steele was in fact the mastermind.  There was also plenty of documentary evidence to support Nicholls claims.

The only explanation that Steele could find, to explain away the evidence put before him, was to suggest that he was working for Nicholls.  The jury would have found this impossible to believe.  It must have destroyed his credibility in court.

I'm not sure Dorman did concoct a story?  He just provided info on his interpretation of events re the cash reimbursement in respect of the dodgy cannabis and said all was well between Steele and Tate.  Even the CoA seemed to recognise that Tate was present in Amsterdam when supplier John Stone reimbursed Steele who in turn reimbursed those who had funded the dodgy cannabis.  I was however wondering why Steele didn't just bring the cash back in his RIB rather than the motley crew gather en masse in Amsterdam.  I appreciate it was considered too high risk for one or two individuals to carry a large amount of cash through customs but why didn't Steele just bring back over?  Tucker wasn't present as it was his birthday and his girlfriend had booked a hotel. 

I agree Steele was the leader with Nicholls and Whomes willing participants but as I said up thread Steele was really caught between the devil and the deep blue sea as the trial didn't just involve the murders but also importing drugs and possession of a firearm.  If Steele admitted to importing drugs he was looking at a long custodial sentence based on his previous conviction(s) for the same offence.

And lets not forget after the murders Nicholls was caught by EP with a large quantity of cannabis in the boot of his car. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 10:06:52 PM
Nicholls threw it in a pond.  The cannabis was later recovered by Essex Police.  Nicholls was paid a £400 reward for providing the information to Police, £50 of which he gave to Wolfgang Bird.

I don't know anything about the above.  I'm just going from the info in the CoA doc:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Once back in England, Steele told Nicholls to get rid of the remaining 60 kilos. Nicholls disposed of it in a sandpit near Braintree.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 10:30:47 PM
Steele was a telephone box man.  He was quite sure that his telephone was bugged.  When Police searched his house they found an anti bugging device.

But he wasn't a telephone box man on 5th Dec as he made a number of calls to Nicholls and Whomes on his mobile.

Someone was calling Tate, Tucker and Nicholls from a call box and it wasn't Steele.  Someone called Tate and Tucker from a phone box near Whomes' place of work near Stowmarket at around 14.30.  At 14.32 there was an incoming call to a telephone box near Tait's home in Basildon.  Around 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone box to Nicholls' mobile.  Stowmarket to Basildon is 1 hour, 12 mins/63 miles.  I would suggest those making the calls from tel boxes on 5th Dec were either directly responsible for the murders or were working with those who were responsible.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2019, 11:16:20 PM
Are you suggesting that someone else was responsible for the murders, and before they carried them out, they used telephone boxes to try and set Steele and Whomes up?

Yes, possibly. 

This case was one of the first cases where mobile evidence was used to identify a person's whereabouts:

In addition, this was one of the first cases in which the position of the makers and recipients of mobile phone calls was identified by the location of the cell sites through which the phones had sent or received the call. There was a great deal of factual and expert evidence on this subject at the trial.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

It's extremely unlikely Steele would have forensic knowledge re the above. 

Someone was calling Tate and Tucker from call boxes on the 5th Dec (bodies found on 6th Dec).  Nicholls also received a call on his mobile from a call box.  As I said above Tate and Tucker received calls from a call box near Stowmarket and Nicholls from Basildon.  All these calls were within 30 mins and yet the geographical distance between the two is 1 hour, 12 mins/63 miles so it could not have been Steele. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 23, 2019, 11:32:44 AM
Yes, possibly. 

This case was one of the first cases where mobile evidence was used to identify a person's whereabouts:

In addition, this was one of the first cases in which the position of the makers and recipients of mobile phone calls was identified by the location of the cell sites through which the phones had sent or received the call. There was a great deal of factual and expert evidence on this subject at the trial.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

It's extremely unlikely Steele would have forensic knowledge re the above. 

Someone was calling Tate and Tucker from call boxes on the 5th Dec (bodies found on 6th Dec).  Nicholls also received a call on his mobile from a call box.  As I said above Tate and Tucker received calls from a call box near Stowmarket and Nicholls from Basildon.  All these calls were within 30 mins and yet the geographical distance between the two is 1 hour, 12 mins/63 mins so it could not have been Steele.

Corrupt police officers from Braintree CID were no doubt aware how mobile phone data could be used to identify the approximate location of those who use mobile phones.  They would certainly have an awareness of how to communicate with others to avoid detection eg use of phone boxes.  An informer would simply add to all this intelligence enabling them to control and manipulate many scenarios. 

There's much evidence corrupt officers were able to lure Rolfe, Tate and Tucker to Workhouse Lane on some pretext to have them slaughtered probably because they were becoming too much of a liablility and risk exposing the corrupt officers and crime bosses.  If they all needed taking out it had to be done in one hit but taking out 3 wasn't something that would then be swept under the carpet so a scapegoat(s) was needed ie Steele/Whomes. 

It's possible the officer(s) told Rolfe, Tate and Tucker to meet at Workhouse Lane on the basis drugs/cash were to be placed in the boot of the Range Rover and they would then ensure safe passage to a storage facility ie advise who was on patrol and which roads to take.  They were told a vehicle would back up to the boot and they were not to get out so as not to leave footprints.  An officer and the hitman faff around outside with the officer opening the rear driver's door and the hitman steps forward.

The Timeline

5th Dec/6th Dec 1995 - It is thought Rolfe, Tate and Tucker were murdered 5th Dec around 7pm with the bodies found 6th Dec

13th May 1996 - Corry, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes arrested.  Shortly after his arrest Nicholls asked to speak with DC Bird his request was refused.  Bird had also been arrested.

13 th May - evening - Nicholls interviewed - no comment

14th May - afternoon - Nicholls interviewed - no comment

14th May - evening - Nicholls asked to speak with a senior officer and was seen by Det Sup Barrington.  He was told Bird was in custody.  Nicholls inidicated his willingness to talk about "drugs jobs" and "other more serious things would be disclosed.  He asked about protection in and out of prison.  He said that he would be giving information about the illegal activities of police officers.

15th May  - Used car dealer and former business partner to Tate, John Marshall, is last seen alive around midday leaving a salvage yard in Pitsea, Essex.  His home was Little Burstead, Essex.  It was rumoured he was involved with drugs.  Marshall sold a used vehicle to Kenneth Noye with false papers.

19th May - Noye murdered Stephen Cameron on the M25.

22nd May - John Marshall's body discovered in the back of his Range Rover in Sydenham, Kent.  The body and vehicle were there from at least 6.30am 16th May.

It has been said Noye ordered a hit on Marshall to silence him over the car he sold him with false papers which he was driving when he murdered Stephen Cameron.  This is clearly wrong since Marshall was murdered 15th/16th May and Stephen Cameron murdered 19th May. 

What is interesting is that John Marshall, former business partner to Tate, was murdered only hours after Nicholls made his disclosures re "drugs jobs|" and "illegal activities of police officers". 

Did Noye feel the net was closing in and/or was he at risk of being exposed and/or his life was under threat from others?  I've always thought it strange that someone who was active in crime but never liked to dirty his hands per se would suddenly lose the plot in broad daylight on one of the busiest roundabouts in the world.  Is this the reason he lost it with Stephen Cameron?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 23, 2019, 03:34:05 PM
Analysis of Tel Calls 6th Dec 1986 Extracted From CoA Doc

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Time of Day          M/PB/LL/Sender/Location                                       M/PB/LL/Receiver/Location


Middle                  M/Nicholls/Sunbury, W.London                                M/Steele/?

14.11                   M/Steele/?                                                            M/Whomes/?

14.30                   PB/?/Phone Box Nr To Where Whomes Working,       M/Tucker/?
                           Stowmarket, Suffolk

14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tucker/?


14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tait/? *

14.32                    ?/?/?                                                                   PB/?/Phone Box Close To Where Tait Lived,
                                                                                                       Basildon, Essex

14.52                 PB/?/Phone Box Close To Where Tait Lived,                M/Nicholls/?
                         Basildon, Essex

Other telephone contact between Nicholls/Steele and Steele/Whomes during the afternoon.

17.03                 PB/?/Phone Box Halfway House pub, A127,                M/Tait/?
                         Brentwood Essex

17.12                 M/Whomes/?                                                           M/Steele/?

18.03                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.09                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.44                 LL/Sarah Saunders/Basildon                                     M/Tait/?

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

M = Mobile
PB = Phone Box
LL = Landline
* = Missed Call
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 23, 2019, 04:01:18 PM
The prosecution case is:

14.11 Steeles mobile calls Whomes mobile
14.30 Steele calls Tuckers mobile twice
14.30 Steele calls Tates mobile (missed call)
14.32 Steele calls Tate at the Basildon phone box
14.52 Steele calls Nicholls



Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 23, 2019, 04:16:59 PM
Analysis of Tel Calls 6th Dec 1986 Extracted From CoA Doc

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Time of Day          M/PB/LL/Sender/Location                                       M/PB/LL/Receiver/Location


Middle                  M/Nicholls/Sunbury, W.London                                M/Steele/?

14.11                   M/Steele/?                                                            M/Whomes/?

14.30                   PB/?/Phone Box Nr To Where Whomes Working,       M/Tucker/?
                           Stowmarket, Suffolk

14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tucker/?

14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tait/? *

14.32                    ?/?/?                                                                   PB/?/Phone Box Close To Where Tait Lived,
                                                                                                       Basildon, Essex

14.52                 PB/?/Phone Box Close To Where Tait Lived,                M/Nicholls/?
                         Basildon, Essex

Other telephone contact between Nicholls/Steele and Steele/Whomes during the afternoon.

17.03                 PB/?/Phone Box Halfway House pub, A127,                M/Tait/?
                         Brentwood Essex

17.12                 M/Whomes/?                                                           M/Steele/?

18.03                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.09                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.44                 LL/Sarah Saunders/Basildon                                     M/Tait/?

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

M = Mobile
PB = Phone Box
LL = Landline
* = Missed Call

As I said above the phone analysis is based on info contained within the CoA doc.  The CoA make clear it is a summary of the info.  Questions I would like answered:

1. The CoA doc states:

Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed. In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules. We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation.

The two calls in question are of course those made by Whomes to Nicholls at 18.59 putting them both near the soc at a time when it is thought the trio were murdered.  Imo all the calls require detailed examination and investigation.  Eg:

2. Where was Tate when he received his call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 which was 15 mins before Whomes calls to Nicholls.  If Tate was in an area whereby it was not possible for him to travel to the Rettendon area within 15 minutes then this blows the prosecution case apart.

3. Who was making the phone calls from phone boxes?  At first glance it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that Whomes made the calls to Tucker and Tait at 14.30 from a phone box close to his place of work and he did so to avoid leaving an electronic footprint by way of mobile phone data, but did he?  Did someone else make the calls to Tait and Tucker to implicate Whomes at an early stage?

4. Where was Steele when he made his 14.11 call to Whomes?  Can he be ruled by geographical location and journey time for making the 14.30 calls?

5. Who made the call to a phone box at 14.32 close to where Tate lived and who received it?

6. Who made the call from a phone box close to where Tate lived to Nicholls at 14.52?

7. Who made the call from a phone box on the A127 to Tait at 17.03?  According to Nicholls testimony he met with Steele and Whomes at Marks Tey around 17.00 so by way of geographical location and journey time this rules out Steele and Whomes making this call.

8.  The calls from phone boxes appear to involve 2 people since those made at approx 14.30 to Tait and Tucker and the one made at 14.52 to Nicholls involve geographical distances and journey times ruling out the same person.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 23, 2019, 04:22:35 PM
Corrupt police officers from Braintree CID were no doubt aware how mobile phone data could be used to identify the approximate location of those who use mobile phones.  They would certainly have an awareness of how to communicate with others to avoid detection eg use of phone boxes.  An informer would simply add to all this intelligence enabling them to control and manipulate many scenarios. 

There's much evidence corrupt officers were able to lure Rolfe, Tate and Tucker to Workhouse Lane on some pretext to have them slaughtered probably because they were becoming too much of a liablility and risk exposing the corrupt officers and crime bosses.  If they all needed taking out it had to be done in one hit but taking out 3 wasn't something that would then be swept under the carpet so a scapegoat(s) was needed ie Steele/Whomes. 

It's possible the officer(s) told Rolfe, Tate and Tucker to meet at Workhouse Lane on the basis drugs/cash were to be placed in the boot of the Range Rover and they would then ensure safe passage to a storage facility ie advise who was on patrol and which roads to take.  They were told a vehicle would back up to the boot and they were not to get out so as not to leave footprints.  An officer and the hitman faff around outside with the officer opening the rear driver's door and the hitman steps forward.

The Timeline

5th Dec/6th Dec 1995 - It is thought Rolfe, Tate and Tucker were murdered 5th Dec around 7pm with the bodies found 6th Dec

13th May 1996 - Corry, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes arrested.  Shortly after his arrest Nicholls asked to speak with DC Bird his request was refused.  Bird had also been arrested.

13 th May - evening - Nicholls interviewed - no comment

14th May - afternoon - Nicholls interviewed - no comment

14th May - evening - Nicholls asked to speak with a senior officer and was seen by Det Sup Barrington.  He was told Bird was in custody.  Nicholls inidicated his willingness to talk about "drugs jobs" and "other more serious things would be disclosed.  He asked about protection in and out of prison.  He said that he would be giving information about the illegal activities of police officers.

15th May  - Used car dealer and former business partner to Tate, John Marshall, is last seen alive around midday leaving a salvage yard in Pitsea, Essex.  His home was Little Burstead, Essex.  It was rumoured he was involved with drugs.  Marshall sold a used vehicle to Kenneth Noye with false papers.

19th May - Noye murdered Stephen Cameron on the M25.

22nd May - John Marshall's body discovered in the back of his Range Rover in Sydenham, Kent.  The body and vehicle were there from at least 6.30am 16th May.

It has been said Noye ordered a hit on Marshall to silence him over the car he sold him with false papers which he was driving when he murdered Stephen Cameron.  This is clearly wrong since Marshall was murdered 15th/16th May and Stephen Cameron murdered 19th May. 

What is interesting is that John Marshall, former business partner to Tate, was murdered only hours after Nicholls made his disclosures re "drugs jobs|" and "illegal activities of police officers". 

Did Noye feel the net was closing in and/or was he at risk of being exposed and/or his life was under threat from others?  I've always thought it strange that someone who was active in crime but never liked to dirty his hands per se would suddenly lose the plot in broad daylight on one of the busiest roundabouts in the world.  Is this the reason he lost it with Stephen Cameron?
I've never heard/read any credible source, that supports the suggestion that Tate was once Marshall's business partner. 

Likewise, there is no established link between Noye and TTR or Steele & Whomes.  There's not even a sniff of one. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 23, 2019, 04:26:14 PM
As I said above the phone analysis is based on info contained within the CoA doc.  The CoA make clear it is a summary of the info.  Questions I would like answered:

1. The CoA doc states:

Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed. In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules. We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation.

The two calls in question are of course those made by Whomes to Nicholls at 18.59 putting them both near the soc at a time when it is thought the trio were murdered.  Imo all the calls require detailed examination and investigation.  Eg:

2. Where was Tate when he received his call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 which was 15 mins before Whomes calls to Nicholls.  If Tate was in an area whereby it was not possible for him to travel to the Rettendon area within 15 minutes then this blows the prosecution case apart.

3. Who was making the phone calls from phone boxes?  At first glance it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that Whomes made the calls to Tucker and Tait at 14.30 from a phone box close to his place of work and he did so to avoid leaving an electronic footprint by way of mobile phone data, but did he?  Did someone else make the calls to Tait and Tucker to implicate Whomes at an early stage?

4. Where was Steele when he made his 14.11 call to Whomes?  Can he be ruled by geographical location and journey time for making the 14.30 calls?

5. Who made the call to a phone box at 14.32 close to where Tate lived and who received it?

6. Who made the call from a phone box close to where Tate lived to Nicholls at 14.52?

7. Who made the call from a phone box on the A127 to Tait at 17.03?  According to Nicholls testimony he met with Steele and Whomes at Marks Tey around 17.00 so by way of geographical location and journey time this rules out Steele and Whomes making this call.

8.  The calls from phone boxes appear to involve 2 people since those made at approx 14.30 to Tait and Tucker and the one made at 14.52 to Nicholls involve geographical distances and journey times ruling out the same person.
6. That call was made from the phone box near Whomes place of work, to Nicholls.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 23, 2019, 04:29:34 PM
The prosecution case is:

14.11 Steeles mobile calls Whomes mobile
14.30 Steele calls Tuckers mobile twice
14.30 Steele calls Tates mobile (missed call)
14.32 Steele calls Tate at the Basildon phone box
14.52 Steele calls Nicholls

Does the prosecution have the backup data  by way of which cells/masts calls were routed through to support Steele and his mobile being in the Stowmarket location when the 14.30 calls were made to Tucker/Tait?

How would anyone know who picked up the 14.32 call in the phone box close to where Tate lived in Basildon?

How could Steele call Nicholls from a phone box in Basildon, Essex if 20 minutes earlier he was calling Tait/Tucker from a phone box in Claydon, Stowmarket, Suffolk when the distance between these two places is 1 hour and 1 min/56.5 miles? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 23, 2019, 04:32:58 PM
As I said above the phone analysis is based on info contained within the CoA doc.  The CoA make clear it is a summary of the info.  Questions I would like answered:

1. The CoA doc states:

Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed. In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules. We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation.

The two calls in question are of course those made by Whomes to Nicholls at 18.59 putting them both near the soc at a time when it is thought the trio were murdered.  Imo all the calls require detailed examination and investigation.  Eg:

2. Where was Tate when he received his call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 which was 15 mins before Whomes calls to Nicholls.  If Tate was in an area whereby it was not possible for him to travel to the Rettendon area within 15 minutes then this blows the prosecution case apart.

3. Who was making the phone calls from phone boxes?  At first glance it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that Whomes made the calls to Tucker and Tait at 14.30 from a phone box close to his place of work and he did so to avoid leaving an electronic footprint by way of mobile phone data, but did he?  Did someone else make the calls to Tait and Tucker to implicate Whomes at an early stage?

4. Where was Steele when he made his 14.11 call to Whomes?  Can he be ruled by geographical location and journey time for making the 14.30 calls?

5. Who made the call to a phone box at 14.32 close to where Tate lived and who received it?

6. Who made the call from a phone box close to where Tate lived to Nicholls at 14.52?

7. Who made the call from a phone box on the A127 to Tait at 17.03?  According to Nicholls testimony he met with Steele and Whomes at Marks Tey around 17.00 so by way of geographical location and journey time this rules out Steele and Whomes making this call.

8.  The calls from phone boxes appear to involve 2 people since those made at approx 14.30 to Tait and Tucker and the one made at 14.52 to Nicholls involve geographical distances and journey times ruling out the same person.
5.  Steele made the call to Tates mobile which wasn't answered.  This was Tates cue to head to the phone box, where Steele could safely talk and make arrangements for the meet, later that evening.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 23, 2019, 04:33:16 PM
6. That call was made from the phone box near Whomes place of work, to Nicholls.

Not according to the CoA.  It states:

At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 23, 2019, 04:37:23 PM
Does the prosecution have the backup data  by way of which cells/masts calls were routed through to support Steele and his mobile being in the Stowmarket location when the 14.30 calls were made to Tucker/Tait?

How would anyone know who picked up the 14.32 call in the phone box close to where Tate lived in Basildon?

How could Steele call Nicholls from a phone box in Basildon, Essex if 20 minutes earlier he was calling Tait/Tucker from a phone box in Claydon, Stowmarket, Suffolk when the distance between these two places is 1 hour and 1 min/56.5 miles?
He didn't call Nicholls from Basildon.  He was calling him from Suffolk.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 23, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
He didn't call Nicholls from Basildon.  He was calling him from Suffolk.

I'm going off info contained within the CoA doc.  Do you believe it to be incorrect?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 23, 2019, 04:41:39 PM
Not according to the CoA.  It states:

At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone.
That brief summary in the CoA document can be read two ways.  I will try and find a better source to post up.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 23, 2019, 04:55:25 PM
I've never heard/read any credible source, that supports the suggestion that Tate was once Marshall's business partner. 

Likewise, there is no established link between Noye and TTR or Steele & Whomes.  There's not even a sniff of one.

Well this article states Tate and Marshall were business partners.  It also says:

Officers revealed John's partnership with Tate had broken up because John wouldn't stand for the dealer's behaviour.

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5529696.little-burstead-clear-my-murdered-brother/

Marshall supplied a vehicle to Noye with false papers under the name Anthony Francis. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/16/tonythompson.theobserver
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 23, 2019, 06:03:41 PM
Well this article states Tate and Marshall were business partners.  It also says:

Officers revealed John's partnership with Tate had broken up because John wouldn't stand for the dealer's behaviour.

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5529696.little-burstead-clear-my-murdered-brother/

Marshall supplied a vehicle to Noye with false papers under the name Anthony Francis. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/16/tonythompson.theobserver
Which officers and who did they reveal it to? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 23, 2019, 06:22:18 PM
Which officers and who did they reveal it to?

No idea which officers but I assume the officers made the revelation to the local newspaper who published the article. 

Solicitor, Chris Bowen, who at one time acted for Steele/Whomes stated the following:

Questions about the death of Billericay car dealer John Marshall, a friend of Tate's who was believed to be looking after £120,000 worth of drug money for him, who was found shot dead in his Range Rover six months later.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/829214.stm

There appear to be a lot of claims about a connection between Marshall and Tate but obviously no idea how reliable they are.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 23, 2019, 07:27:31 PM
The following is an extract from Judge Hiddens summing up of Steeles evidence, whilst under cross examination.

He was asked about the bottom call on that page, 2044, from the Sorrel Horse Public House, the call at 14:29 from that phone box to the Tucker mobile. He said it was not him making it. Over the page to 64, the second entry at 2046, 3 minutes later at 1432, another call to the Tucker mobile, and the next call, 2047, the call with the same timing of 1432 from that phone box to another phone box at Timber Log Lane in Clayhill Road Basildon connected with Tate. It was put to him that those were calls to first Tucker and then Tate.He said the phone calls from the Sorrel Horse were not made by him. He gave the same answer to the call at 2050, 1452, 20 minutes later, the call to Nicholls' mobile. That is a call from the payphone to Nicholls' mobile 288. Again Mr Steele said the calls were not made by him. He said, "I think Nicholls was at the Sorrel Horse, Barham. I know full well Nicholls had sought to phone me. I'm suggesting it is possible Nicholls may have been there at the phone box." In the light of that answer he was asked to look again at 2050 which is the phone box phoning Nicholls' mobile, 288. He still said he thought it was Nicholls using that box. He was not in the Sorrel Horse phone box.

He was asked to look at phone calls on page 73. We come back to 4 (a), members of the jury, at page 73, for those same calls on that time. The document I want you to go to I am afraid is actually 4(a)(3). Those calls are set out in the top set of calls in the calls on the Sorrel Horse pay phone. Again he said they were not him. That at 73 he was asked about the calls at 13:57, 14:00, 14:11 and 15:06. 14:00 is to Nicholls' mobile for 25 seconds, 15:06 is to Nicholls' messages for 14 seconds. He said he did not arrange to meet Nicholls at Marks Tey and then drive together with him to the A128 then swap him into Wholmes' vehicle. He accepted that at 18:03 and 18:09 he made two calls to Wholmes' mobile. He was asked about the call to Tate's mobile at 18:44 and said, "I was never in the vehicle, in the Range Rover with Tate, Rolfe and Tucker. Wholmes and I did not shoot them dead." Again he was asked about his interview 203(a) and he said he was willing to correct the customs officers when they were wrong but that was a natural reaction.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 24, 2019, 11:57:39 AM
The following is an extract from Judge Hiddens summing up of Steeles evidence, whilst under cross examination.

He was asked about the bottom call on that page, 2044, from the Sorrel Horse Public House, the call at 14:29 from that phone box to the Tucker mobile. He said it was not him making it. Over the page to 64, the second entry at 2046, 3 minutes later at 1432, another call to the Tucker mobile, and the next call, 2047, the call with the same timing of 1432 from that phone box to another phone box at Timber Log Lane in Clayhill Road Basildon connected with Tate. It was put to him that those were calls to first Tucker and then Tate.He said the phone calls from the Sorrel Horse were not made by him. He gave the same answer to the call at 2050, 1452, 20 minutes later, the call to Nicholls' mobile. That is a call from the payphone to Nicholls' mobile 288. Again Mr Steele said the calls were not made by him. He said, "I think Nicholls was at the Sorrel Horse, Barham. I know full well Nicholls had sought to phone me. I'm suggesting it is possible Nicholls may have been there at the phone box." In the light of that answer he was asked to look again at 2050 which is the phone box phoning Nicholls' mobile, 288. He still said he thought it was Nicholls using that box. He was not in the Sorrel Horse phone box.

He was asked to look at phone calls on page 73. We come back to 4 (a), members of the jury, at page 73, for those same calls on that time. The document I want you to go to I am afraid is actually 4(a)(3). Those calls are set out in the top set of calls in the calls on the Sorrel Horse pay phone. Again he said they were not him. That at 73 he was asked about the calls at 13:57, 14:00, 14:11 and 15:06. 14:00 is to Nicholls' mobile for 25 seconds, 15:06 is to Nicholls' messages for 14 seconds. He said he did not arrange to meet Nicholls at Marks Tey and then drive together with him to the A128 then swap him into Wholmes' vehicle. He accepted that at 18:03 and 18:09 he made two calls to Wholmes' mobile. He was asked about the call to Tate's mobile at 18:44 and said, "I was never in the vehicle, in the Range Rover with Tate, Rolfe and Tucker. Wholmes and I did not shoot them dead." Again he was asked about his interview 203(a) and he said he was willing to correct the customs officers when they were wrong but that was a natural reaction.

My interpretation of the above aligns with the info contained within the CoA doc other than the above does not mention the missed call from the Sorrell Ho Pub to Tait's mobile.

The above first talks about the calls from the Sorrell Ho Pub and then talks about the call from the Sorrell Ho Pub to the phone box at Timber Log Lane, Clayhill, Basildon and the call from that same box to Nicholl's mobile.

It's actually a very cunning plan and most looking at it at the time would not consider that corrupt police officers were making these calls to implicate Steele/Whomes at a very early stage ie several hours before the murders took place!

To make sense of all of this we really need the complete schedule of calls as viewed by jurors and referred to by the judge.  Are you able to make it available?

It seems to me the emphasis on these calls is very much slanted towards the prosecution in terms of info provided.  For example we know an approximate location can be provided when a person makes or receives a mobile call and yet all I'm seeing so far is info re the location of Nicholls/Whomes for the 2 x 18.59 calls.  What about the whereabouts of all those who made and received mobile calls throughout the day? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 24, 2019, 12:23:02 PM
I've updated the table with further info from the judge's summing up.

Analysis of Tel Calls 6th Dec 1986 Extracted From CoA Doc and part of judge's summing up:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511119#msg511119

Time of Day          M/PB/LL/Sender/Location                                       M/PB/LL/Receiver/Location


Middle                  M/Nicholls/Sunbury, W.London                                M/Steele/?

14.11                   M/Steele/?                                                            M/Whomes/?

14.30                   PB/?/Sorrell Horse Pub, Barnham, Suffolk                M/Tucker/?
 

14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tucker/?


14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tait/? *

14.32                   PB/?/As above                                                       PB/?/Timber Log Lane, Clayhill Rd,
                                                                                                       Basildon, Essex

14.52                   PB/?/Timber Log Lane, Clayhill Rd,                          M/Nicholls/?
                           Basildon, Essex   

Other telephone contact between Nicholls/Steele and Steele/Whomes during the afternoon.

17.03                 PB/?/Halfway House pub, A127,                                M/Tait/?
                         Brentwood Essex

17.12                 M/Whomes/?                                                           M/Steele/?

18.03                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.09                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.44                 LL/Sarah Saunders/Basildon                                     M/Tait/?

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

M = Mobile
PB = Phone Box
LL = Landline
* = Missed Call
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 24, 2019, 06:56:54 PM
My interpretation of the above aligns with the info contained within the CoA doc other than the above does not mention the missed call from the Sorrell Ho Pub to Tait's mobile.

The above first talks about the calls from the Sorrell Ho Pub and then talks about the call from the Sorrell Ho Pub to the phone box at Timber Log Lane, Clayhill, Basildon and the call from that same box to Nicholl's mobile.

It's actually a very cunning plan and most looking at it at the time would not consider that corrupt police officers were making these calls to implicate Steele/Whomes at a very early stage ie several hours before the murders took place!

To make sense of all of this we really need the complete schedule of calls as viewed by jurors and referred to by the judge.  Are you able to make it available?

It seems to me the emphasis on these calls is very much slanted towards the prosecution in terms of info provided.  For example we know an approximate location can be provided when a person makes or receives a mobile call and yet all I'm seeing so far is info re the location of Nicholls/Whomes for the 2 x 18.59 calls.  What about the whereabouts of all those who made and received mobile calls throughout the day?
Sorry Holly, your interpretation is wrong.  The call at 14.52 was made from the Sorrell Horse phone box.

It was put to him that those were calls to first Tucker and then Tate.He said the phone calls from the Sorrel Horse were not made by him. He gave the same answer to the call at 2050, 1452, 20 minutes later, the call to Nicholls' mobile. That is a call from the payphone to Nicholls' mobile 288. Again Mr Steele said the calls were not made by him. He said, "I think Nicholls was at the Sorrel Horse, Barham. I know full well Nicholls had sought to phone me. I'm suggesting it is possible Nicholls may have been there at the phone box." In the light of that answer he was asked to look again at 2050 which is the phone box phoning Nicholls' mobile, 288. He still said he thought it was Nicholls using that box. He was not in the Sorrel Horse phone box.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 24, 2019, 10:40:02 PM
05/12/95 - 07/12/95 - Phone Records 03
Page 01 02 03 04 05 06

DATE

TIME

FROM   
 

TO   
 

05/12/95

19.28


0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

05/12/95

20.02


01277260049

M J HOOD FLAT 2 BOOTHS COURT HUTTON

01268458327

SAUNDERS (LANDLINE)

05/12/95

22.15


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

05/12/95

22.17


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

05/12/95

22.34


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

01268458327

SAUNDERS (LANDLINE)

06/12/95

09.02


0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

06/12/95

09.20


01268287131

TATE (LANDLINE) 49 GORDON ROAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

09.26


01268287131

TATE (LANDLINE) 49 GORDON ROAD

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

06/12/95

09.55


0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

06/12/95

09.56


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

06/12/95

09.59


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

06/12/95

10.21


0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

06/12/95

11.21


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

11.31


0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

0973740923

TATE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

11.43


0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

01268520537

BASILDON TYRE SERVICES LTD

06/12/95

11.46


01268287131

TATE (LANDLINE) 49 GORDON ROAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

11.50


01268458327

SAUNDERS (LANDLINE)

01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

06/12/95

12.21


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

12.22


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

06/12/95

12.51


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

06/12/95

12.52


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

12.53


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

0850682729

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

12.54


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

06/12/95

12.54


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

12.59


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

13.23


0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

06/12/95

13.24


0973740923

TATE (MOBILE)

01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

06/12/95

14.00


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.02


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.11


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.14


0973740923

TATE (MOBILE)

01268520537

BASILDON TYRE SERVICES LTD

06/12/95

14.22


01268520537

BASILDON TYRE SERVICES LTD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.23


01268287131

TATE (LANDLINE) 49 GORDON ROAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.29

01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.29


01473830370

PAYPHONE, SORELL HORSE INN, IPSWICH

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.32


01473830370

PAYPHONE, SORELL HORSE INN, IPSWICH

01268551010

PAYPHONE TIMBERLOG LANE / CLAY HILL RD, BASILDON

06/12/95

14.32


01473830370

PAYPHONE, SORELL HORSE INN, IPSWICH

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.52


01473830370

PAYPHONE, SORELL HORSE INN, IPSWICH

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 24, 2019, 10:41:13 PM
Sorry Holly, your interpretation is wrong.  The call at 14.52 was made from the Sorrell Horse phone box.

It was put to him that those were calls to first Tucker and then Tate.He said the phone calls from the Sorrel Horse were not made by him. He gave the same answer to the call at 2050, 1452, 20 minutes later, the call to Nicholls' mobile. That is a call from the payphone to Nicholls' mobile 288. Again Mr Steele said the calls were not made by him. He said, "I think Nicholls was at the Sorrel Horse, Barham. I know full well Nicholls had sought to phone me. I'm suggesting it is possible Nicholls may have been there at the phone box." In the light of that answer he was asked to look again at 2050 which is the phone box phoning Nicholls' mobile, 288. He still said he thought it was Nicholls using that box. He was not in the Sorrel Horse phone box.

The above is ambiguous because we don't have all the info before us but the CoA doc makes it clear that the 14.52 call from the phone box in Timber Log Lane was to Nicholls' mobile. 
 
At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone.

In any event I don't understand why all the calls didn't undergo the sort of scrutiny the calls at 18.59 between Whomes/Nicholls underwent. 

I don't know what happens if a mobile call goes unanswered/goes into voice mail but assuming the recipients of these calls answered their phones then it was possible to determine the approx geographic location in terms of which cells/masts they were routed through.  From the CoA:

Each mobile telephone making or receiving a call does so by way of a radio signal, which is routed through one of many local transmitters, commonly called 'cell sites', which provide a general coverage throughout the country. Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed.

Steele made a call on his mobile to Nicholls mobile at 14.11 where were the pair situated 19 minutes before the calls from the Sorrel Horse started? 

It's quite possible Steele had received and made calls from others during the course of the day/eve.  If so where was he located when he made/received these calls?

I find it odd the info made availale seems selective and slated towards the prosecution case.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 24, 2019, 10:45:40 PM
 

TO   
 

06/12/95

14.56


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.56


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

15.06


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

15.08


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

15.50


0973740923

TATE (MOBILE)

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

06/12/95

15.57


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

16.04


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

06/12/95

16.36


0973427288

NICHOLLS( MOBILE)

01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

06/12/95

16.39


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

17.09


01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

17.12


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

18.03


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

18.09


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

18.34


01268458327

SAUNDERS (LANDLINE)

01277260049

MR M J HOOD FLAT 2 BOOTHS COURT HUTTON

06/12/95

18.44


01268458327

SAUNDERS (LANDLINE)

0973740923

TATE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

18.59


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

19.19


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

19.55


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

06/12/95

20.18


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

20.20


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

20.27


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

20.36


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

06/12/95

20.39


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

20.39


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

21.07


01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

21.11


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

21.22


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

21.49


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

07/12/95

01.38


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

07/12/95

07.48


01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

07/12/95

07.50


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

07/12/95

08.38


01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

07/12/95

09.03


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

07/12/95

09.05


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

07/12/95

09.24


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

07/12/95

09.26


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

07/12/95

09.27


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

07/12/95

09.56


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

07/12/95

10.42


01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 24, 2019, 10:48:40 PM
I've copied up these schedules compiled by the Police.

Apologies for the poor formatting.  Makes it a bit of job to read, I know.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 24, 2019, 10:53:52 PM
06/12/95

14.52

01473830370

PAYPHONE, SORELL HORSE INN, IPSWICH

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 25, 2019, 07:04:49 AM
The cops knew the hit was going to take place that night, and let it happen so that three inveterate troublemakers could be crossed off their list.  Whomes and Steele were the fall guys, although whether they actually did the shooting is open to question.  Steele, whose police interviews are liberally sprinkled with No Comments, certainly had something to hide.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 25, 2019, 07:30:03 AM
The cops knew the hit was going to take place that night, and let it happen so that three inveterate troublemakers could be crossed off their list.  Whomes and Steele were the fall guys, although whether they actually did the shooting is open to question.  Steele, whose police interviews are liberally sprinkled with No Comments, certainly had something to hide.
What evidence is there to support the theory that Police knew ? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 25, 2019, 07:49:31 AM
What evidence is there to support the theory that Police knew ?
Were they all, or at least Whomes and Steele as well-known drug runners / suppliers and especially after the Betts affair not put under surveillance which was withdrawn shortly before the murders?  And that evidence later concealed?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2019, 08:38:50 AM
I've copied up these schedules compiled by the Police.

Apologies for the poor formatting.  Makes it a bit of job to read, I know.

Thanks sika.  I'll have a good read when I have time.

I do hope the defence authenticated all the info provided by the police!?  I would not accept anything less than originals from the tel comm co's and experts who provided info on the cells/masts and even then I would ensure I was up to speed or had to hand a forensic document examiner! 

In my former industry, fin serv, we were only able to trade off original docs which had to be verified as authentic.  Surely if someone's liberty is at stake its even more critical to ensure info is kosher!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2019, 09:34:44 AM
The cops knew the hit was going to take place that night, and let it happen so that three inveterate troublemakers could be crossed off their list.  Whomes and Steele were the fall guys, although whether they actually did the shooting is open to question.  Steele, whose police interviews are liberally sprinkled with No Comments, certainly had something to hide.

So too were Nicholls initial interviews until he realised his police handler had been arrested and he probably had it put to him he was in the frame for murder.  It was his mobile along with Whomes' mobile which put them in the vicinity of Rettendon at what the police considered to be the right time.  It appears he then decided to turn supergrass and spill the beans on the illegal activities of police officers, drugs business and the murders!  In terms of Steele it was Nicholls' testimony alone that sent him down for murder.

There's no doubt in my mind Nicholls, Steele and Whomes were in the area up to no good.  Their testimonies as to why they were in the area ie picking up a trailer and a broken down car are incredibly weak.  But were they in the area on drugs business only and/or did they also carry out the murders?  I'm inclined to think the former only. 

If Steele put his hands up and admitted being in the area on drugs business only, he was still looking at a long custodial sentence given his previous.  The current max sentence for supply and production of class B is 14 years. And he would still be leaving himself open to the murder charge.  Plus an unlimited fine and losing all his ill-gotten gains.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2019, 10:04:42 AM
Were they all, or at least Whomes and Steele as well-known drug runners / suppliers and especially after the Betts affair not put under surveillance which was withdrawn shortly before the murders?  And that evidence later concealed?

And are we really to believe that Nicholls only became a police informant during Jan '96 and not before:

In January 1996 Nicholls became a police informant. His handler was Detective Constable Bird. Their relationship was a corrupt one.

Especially given

The third importation occurred on 7/8 November. Nicholls and Corry collected £125,000 from Steele in the presence of Whomes. Nicholls and Corry then took the overnight ferry from Harwich and made their way to Stone's café. Although the preference had been to obtain herbal cannabis only cannabis resin was available. On this occasion Nicholls had hired a car but had had some difficulty with the hire company because it insisted on payment by credit card rather than cash. Nicholls did not have sufficient credit on his credit card and so had to telephone home to arrange for his wife to pay money into a bank account. The bank then provided a reference number which persuaded the hire company to release the car. All this was confirmed by documentary exhibits. Having obtained the drugs from Stone, Nicholls was unable to contact Steele and spoke instead to Whomes. Nicholls and Corry then proceeded to Blankenberg where the drugs were loaded into Steele's boat. Steele and Corry then returned to England with the drugs in the boat. Nicholls returned the hire car to Amsterdam and, having missed the night ferry, stayed in the Delta Hotel. He had difficulty in making telephone contact with Steele which is not surprising because in the early hours of 8 November Steele, Whomes, Corry and another man had been arrested on the beach at Felixstowe. At that time, according to Nicholls, the drugs had already been off-loaded at another point on the coast and the boat had then proceeded to Felixstowe where Corry was cleaning it at the time of arrest. A small trace of cannabis was later found in the boat following its seizure on this occasion. However those who had been arrested were soon released and no-one was charged with any offence at the time. Nicholls' knowledge of what had occurred in his absence came from subsequent conversations with Steele who also described tampering with the navigation system of the boat so that there was no record of where it had been.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2019, 02:25:37 PM
Jack Whomes' mother certainly seems to think her son is innocent but then I guess most do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imGdtTtBZs0

His siblings have also been very supportive especially his brother John Whomes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqFvk6wPGuc

I wonder if we could invite John to join the forum and/or ask him to upload case related docs?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 25, 2019, 02:35:37 PM
Letter from Jack Whomes (no independent verification of authenticity) to the public narrated by the person who has made a number of vids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ONqgBsRgw
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 26, 2019, 07:46:20 AM
I have seen the hand written version of a letter from Whomes.  I'll have to give this a listen to see if it's the same one. 


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 26, 2019, 09:02:49 AM
I have seen the hand written version of a letter from Whomes.  I'll have to give this a listen to see if it's the same one.

The little paperclip icon appears on your post but nothing has attached?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 26, 2019, 09:54:21 AM
Just listened to Steele's police interviews part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCNylOuQc5Y

Just to add again someone has narrated a number of vids and claims to be reading original docs verbatim - no checks carried out to verify authenticity.

Venue: Colchester Police Station
Date: 14/05/96
Time: 22.30 - 22.45
Duration: 15 mins
Interviewing Officers: DC Richard Shakespeare and DC Philip Norton

- Firearm seized from Steele's property which was unconnected to murders.  Did he have a firearms licence for the weapon?

- A sum of cash was also seized.  He claims it was a loan to his partner from a relative pending sale of her home.  I believe Steele and his partner were about to sell their current home and purchase another.  She mentions this in his alibi.  I think it more likely the cash was from the proceeds of drug deals.  Significant quantities of cash often represent proceeds of crime/tax evasion.

- Officers put to him that Nicholls said they met at Marks Tey at 6pm on eve of murders.  If this was so and they travelled to Halfway House, Brentwood where Steele supposedly transferred to the Range Rover carrying Rolfe, Tate and Tucker for onward journey to Rettendon this would put him at soc at 7.07pm along with the murdered trio.  According to prosecution the mobile calls between Nicholls/Whomes at 6.59pm represent a call from Whomes to Nicholls for the getaway car.  I assume this is the reason Nicholls account was changed from 6pm to 5pm?  From the CoA doc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCNylOuQc5Y @ 12 min in meet at Marks Tey at 6pm

The arrangement was that Nicholls would meet Steele at Marks Tey at 5.00 o'clock.

Nicholls account is a crock of shite imo.


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 26, 2019, 10:23:53 AM
During Steele's interview he was also asked about telephone calls made and received to/from Nicholls and Whomes.  This spans from 12.51 pm to 3.57 pm.  Some of these calls were made on Steele's mobile and others on his landline.  It might well be possible to determine Steele's location during the course of the afternoon from phone data precluding him from making phone calls from the phone boxes.

There's so much hard data here from mobile phone calls made and received that an interactive map should be able to pinpoint the approx location of any given person at the times it was claimed they were here or there doing this and that which would either support the defence or prosecution. 

I'm really struggling to understand the reason why it was only deemed relevant to place under the microscope the two phone calls between Nicholls and Whomes and not all the calls? 

Which lawyers represented Steele and Whomes at trial?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 26, 2019, 10:53:59 AM
@ 19.48 min in Nicholls states after the murders (Dec '95) he told Steele he did not want to "smuggle" but was happy to purchase for his friends.  In May '96 he was caught with 10k of cannabis in the boot of his car.  He was obviously 'Mr Popular' and had a lot of friends  8)-)))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIXt_Loj2SM



Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 26, 2019, 11:02:03 AM
Just listened to Steele's police interviews part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCNylOuQc5Y

Just to add again someone has narrated a number of vids and claims to be reading original docs verbatim - no checks carried out to verify authenticity.

Venue: Colchester Police Station
Date: 14/05/96
Time: 22.30 - 22.45
Duration: 15 mins
Interviewing Officers: DC Richard Shakespeare and DC Philip Norton

- Firearm seized from Steele's property which was unconnected to murders.  Did he have a firearms licence for the weapon?

- A sum of cash was also seized.  He claims it was a loan to his partner from a relative pending sale of her home.  I believe Steele and his partner were about to sell their current home and purchase another.  She mentions this in his alibi.  I think it more likely the cash was from the proceeds of drug deals.  Significant quantities of cash often represent proceeds of crime/tax evasion.

- Officers put to him that Nicholls said they met at Marks Tey at 6pm on eve of murders.  If this was so and they travelled to Halfway House, Brentwood where Steele supposedly transferred to the Range Rover carrying Rolfe, Tate and Tucker for onward journey to Rettendon this would put him at soc at 7.07pm along with the murdered trio.  According to prosecution the mobile calls between Nicholls/Whomes at 6.59pm represent a call from Whomes to Nicholls for the getaway car.  I assume this is the reason Nicholls account was changed from 6pm to 5pm?  From the CoA doc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCNylOuQc5Y @ 12 min in meet at Marks Tey at 6pm

The arrangement was that Nicholls would meet Steele at Marks Tey at 5.00 o'clock.

Nicholls account is a crock of shite imo.

Bearing in mind it is also claimed Nicholls drove Whomes to Rettendon with the pair waiting for Steele to transfer to the Range Rover before onward journey in the VW Passat.   Whomes then had to get out and walk to soc to lie in wait armed with the shotgun ready for the ambush!   &^^&*

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 26, 2019, 04:15:28 PM


TO   
 

06/12/95

14.56


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

14.56


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

15.06


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

15.08


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

15.50


0973740923

TATE (MOBILE)

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

06/12/95

15.57


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

16.04


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

06/12/95

16.36


0973427288

NICHOLLS( MOBILE)

01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

06/12/95

16.39


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

17.09


01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

17.12


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

18.03


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

18.09


0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

18.34


01268458327

SAUNDERS (LANDLINE)

01277260049

MR M J HOOD FLAT 2 BOOTHS COURT HUTTON

06/12/95

18.44


01268458327

SAUNDERS (LANDLINE)

0973740923

TATE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

18.59


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

19.19


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

19.55


0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

06/12/95

20.18


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

20.20


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

20.27


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

20.36


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

06/12/95

20.39


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

06/12/95

20.39


01206251979

STEELE (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

21.07


01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

0836215646

WHOMES (MOBILE)

06/12/95

21.11


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

06/12/95

21.22


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

06/12/95

21.49


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

07/12/95

01.38


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

07/12/95

07.48


01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

07/12/95

07.50


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

07/12/95

08.38


01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

07/12/95

09.03


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

01375480213

ROLFE (LANDLINE) JAGGERS

07/12/95

09.05


01376551430

NICHOLLS (LANDLINE) MISS R BECKETT

0973427288

NICHOLLS (MOBILE)

07/12/95

09.24


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

0860843978

STEELE (MOBILE)

07/12/95

09.26


01268558162

TUCKER (LANDLINE) A M WHITEHEAD

0385317327

TUCKER (MOBILE)

07/12/95

09.27


0836215646

WHOMES MOBILE

01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

07/12/95

09.56


01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE

01268557679

GARWOOD (LANDLINE) P TATE ALARM CALL

07/12/95

10.42


01449766495

WHOMES (LANDLINE)

sika hope you don't mind but I've taken the liberty of going into your post to highlight the time and date as I was struggling to follow them and imo the phone calls are the most important aspect of this case. 

I've only had a quick skim.  Initial thoughts:

- Seems to me we have incomplete info and/or police have decided what calls to include/exclude to support the prosecution case.  Eg we know from Tucker's voice mail he received 26 messages most of which don't appear in this police schedule?  The first message from Tucker's girlfriend, Anna, states she's round a flat and gives a landline number and yet the first call in the schedule has Anna (assuming she's A M Whitehead) from Tucker's landline?

- It seems to me all 6 were expected home hence the calls from girlfriends/wives on landlines to mobiles. Albeit Steele's alibi involved Jackie Street stating the pair were out together and arrived home at 7.25pm. 

- Did the defence actually authenticate the info provided by third parties eg telecommunication companies or did they just accept at face value the info they were provided by the police?

- I'm still at a complete loss as to why only 2 calls were placed under the microscope.  Which cell/mast was the call routed through that Tate received on his mobile at 18.44 from Sarah Saunders?

- Which cell/mast was the call routed through that Nicholls received on his mobile at 19.19 from Miss R Beckett who I assume was/is Nicholls' partner?

- The defence might have checked out the above and if it supported the prosecution case left well alone? 


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 26, 2019, 05:29:17 PM
sika hope you don't mind but I've taken the liberty of going into your post to highlight the time and date as I was struggling to follow them and imo the phone calls are the most important aspect of this case. 

I've only had a quick skim.  Initial thoughts:

- Seems to me we have incomplete info and/or police have decided what calls to include/exclude to support the prosecution case.  Eg we know from Tucker's voice mail he received 26 messages most of which don't appear in this police schedule?  The first message from Tucker's girlfriend, Anna, states she's round a flat and gives a landline number and yet the first call in the schedule has Anna (assuming she's A M Whitehead) from Tucker's landline?

- It seems to me all 6 were expected home hence the calls from girlfriends/wives on landlines to mobiles. Albeit Steele's alibi involved Jackie Street stating the pair were out together and arrived home at 7.25pm. 

- Did the defence actually authenticate the info provided by third parties eg telecommunication companies or did they just accept at face value the info they were provided by the police?

- I'm still at a complete loss as to why only 2 calls were placed under the microscope.  Which cell/mast was the call routed through that Tate received on his mobile at 18.44 from Sarah Saunders?

- Which cell/mast was the call routed through that Nicholls received on his mobile at 19.19 from Miss R Beckett who I assume was/is Nicholls' partner?

- The defence might have checked out the above and if it supported the prosecution case left well alone?

And which cell/mast was the call routed through than Nicholls received on his mobile at 18.59 from Whomes?  Only one of the calls shows up.  They were both timed at 18.59 with durations of 1 sec and 4 secs?

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 26, 2019, 05:51:06 PM
Just listened to Steele's police interviews part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCNylOuQc5Y

Just to add again someone has narrated a number of vids and claims to be reading original docs verbatim - no checks carried out to verify authenticity.

Venue: Colchester Police Station
Date: 14/05/96
Time: 22.30 - 22.45
Duration: 15 mins
Interviewing Officers: DC Richard Shakespeare and DC Philip Norton

- Firearm seized from Steele's property which was unconnected to murders.  Did he have a firearms licence for the weapon?

- A sum of cash was also seized.  He claims it was a loan to his partner from a relative pending sale of her home.  I believe Steele and his partner were about to sell their current home and purchase another.  She mentions this in his alibi.  I think it more likely the cash was from the proceeds of drug deals.  Significant quantities of cash often represent proceeds of crime/tax evasion.

- Officers put to him that Nicholls said they met at Marks Tey at 6pm on eve of murders.  If this was so and they travelled to Halfway House, Brentwood where Steele supposedly transferred to the Range Rover carrying Rolfe, Tate and Tucker for onward journey to Rettendon this would put him at soc at 7.07pm along with the murdered trio.  According to prosecution the mobile calls between Nicholls/Whomes at 6.59pm represent a call from Whomes to Nicholls for the getaway car.  I assume this is the reason Nicholls account was changed from 6pm to 5pm?  From the CoA doc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCNylOuQc5Y @ 12 min in meet at Marks Tey at 6pm

The arrangement was that Nicholls would meet Steele at Marks Tey at 5.00 o'clock.

Nicholls account is a crock of shite imo.

The above interview was undertaken by a DC Richard Shakespeare.  I wonder if this is the same officer who was found guilty of fraud in 2005:

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/former-pc-forged-warrant-card-1-67091
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 27, 2019, 10:28:44 PM
Re the tel schedules am I right in thinking they are set out as follows:

- Date

- Time

- Tel no of caller

- Name of caller

- Tel no of receiver

- Name of receiver

and where tel calls are made/received from landlines the name the landline is registered to appears to the left with the name of the person who actually made/received the call to the right?

I don't understand all these calls re a Garwood and P Tate/alarm call?  Also the number 557679 that they pertain to is the same number that Tucker's girlfriend, Anna, left in a tel message on Tucker's mobile referring to it as her old flat?

Tucker's voice mails on his mobile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs @ 4.25

In Donna Jagger's WS she refers to a Donna Garwood as being 1 of 3 girls who accompanied Rolfe and Tucker on the trip to Amsterdam to collect the cash in respect of the dodgy cannabis.  In the same WS she refers to Clare as  a girlfriend of Tate's who was due to attend the night out in Romford on night of murders.

Donna Jagger's WS

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508993#msg508993

Phone Schedules

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511362#msg511362

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511364#msg511364
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 27, 2019, 10:52:09 PM
During Steele's interview he was also asked about telephone calls made and received to/from Nicholls and Whomes.  This spans from 12.51 pm to 3.57 pm.  Some of these calls were made on Steele's mobile and others on his landline.  It might well be possible to determine Steele's location during the course of the afternoon from phone data precluding him from making phone calls from the phone boxes.

There's so much hard data here from mobile phone calls made and received that an interactive map should be able to pinpoint the approx location of any given person at the times it was claimed they were here or there doing this and that which would either support the defence or prosecution. 

I'm really struggling to understand the reason why it was only deemed relevant to place under the microscope the two phone calls between Nicholls and Whomes and not all the calls? 

Which lawyers represented Steele and Whomes at trial?

The QC at trial was David Lederman:

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/david-lederman-85542458

He says he wants to use his brain!  He might well start by proof-reading his LinkedIn profile and amend the spelling of his Alma mater!

How can anyone have faith in this conviction when we have:

- 3 corrupt police officers (that we know of!)

and

- a QC who can't even spell/proof-read his Alma mater on his LinkedIn account

 8)><(
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 28, 2019, 05:24:50 AM
The QC at trial was David Lederman:

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/david-lederman-85542458 (https://uk.linkedin.com/in/david-lederman-85542458)

He says he wants to use his brain!  He might well start by proof-reading his LinkedIn profile and amend the spelling of his Alma mater!

How can anyone have faith in this conviction when we have:

- 3 corrupt police officers (that we know of!)

and

- a QC who can't even spell/proof-read his Alma mater on his LinkedIn account

 8)><(
Dyslexia?  and also... 'Prepared to travel.speak fluent Freanch.'
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 28, 2019, 11:31:13 AM
Dyslexia?  and also... 'Prepared to travel.speak fluent Freanch.'

Yes I noticed that too along with the overall layout/presentation.  I did consider he might be dyslexic but surely he has someone in his life who could proof-read his LinkedIn account which is in effect his sales pitch. 

In any event, as might be expected I guess, Steele was not happy with his legal representation at trial and put a case against his legal representation to the Legal Ombudsman:

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/5530664.Wife_of_convicted_Rettendon_killer_speaks_out/

Here's David Lederman's cv from his days at Carmelite chambers.  Again numerous errors which are perhaps indicative of someone with dyslexia?  Mind you I'm not aware of contract killings taking place outside the criminal fraternity!?  I don't wish to sound pedantic, and my writing skills are decidedly average, but I'm not putting myself out there representing people in criminal trials.  Perhaps age has caught up with him and he's unable or unwilling to accept it. 

http://www.carmelitechambers.co.uk/documents/cv/David_Lederman_CV.pdf

As far as I'm concerned JB's representation at trial and appeal was appalling.  Michael Turner, who represented JB at 2002 appeal is dyslexic:   

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9716069/Devils-advocate-Michael-Turner-prepares-for-his-toughest-case.html

His web page all looks ok apart from he claims the highlight of his career was overturning Michael Hickey's conviction which he has mispelt Hickery.

https://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barrister/michael-turner-qc/

If they aren't seen to be on the ball handling the most basic info can we really have confidence in their ability to put up the best possible defence for their clients whoever they may be?

Steele/Whomes were far from law abiding citizens but that's by the by as to whether or not they carried out the murders.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
17/05/96 - RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW of Darren Nicholls


DC BROWN
So getting back roughly to that phone call about 1400 then Darren that that you think that that was on on your way home from from work when you you'd already mentioned to us that he he'd like to meet you

Darren NICHOLLS
Yeah I would be on my way home from work (Pause)

DC WINSTONE
Further on then at 1506 there's another call from STEELE to your on his mobile phone to your mobile phone that's only a short one at fourteen seconds

Darren NICHOLLS
It could be an answering machine message I mean see when I'm coming home from work see what I do I go to work really early and come home quite early yeah that's my to miss the traffic

DC WINSTONE
Alright you mentioned to us before that you were going to a pub in Rainham to see some mates

Darren NICHOLLS
No Rayne

DC WINSTONE
Rayne I beg your pardon

Darren NICHOLLS
Rayne which is like literally Braintree

DC BROWN
Oh I'm sorry I thought you said Rainham before

Darren NICHOLLS
No Rayne

DC BROWN
That's Rayne okay

Darren NICHOLLS
RAYNE

DC BROWN
Yeah well we know Rayne now but

Darren NICHOLLS
I'm sorry yeah

DC BROWN
Okay

Darren NICHOLLS
On our way home from work me and cause I don't go to work on me own like um we always generally shall we go to the pub nar yeah alright then and we'll go in the pub for a couple of beers like literally every night on the way home cause that is a horrible journey and we do like five hours travelling

DC WINSTONE
Well that was going to be my next question if you left a 1400 what sort of time would you've arrived at the pub

Darren NICHOLLS
Oh no I might I might have been on my way by then I mean I'm not saying I left at 1400 I might have been on my way. What we tended to do was leave for work 0500 in the morning and like we could get round to TI by 0630 0645 and then we'd get all out tools in we'd start work the cafe would open at 0730 we'll fly over there and have something to eat and a cup of tea and then we'd work 'til or I we just set targets we'll do that and we'll go home because you know like the job's running over a few months so there's no point in killing it I mean and we all wanted to go home so we sort of set a target and it normally I mean we've left there before 1200 before where we flew in an' done what we've go to do and we'll come back tomorrow and carry on and other times I've been there as late as late as 1500 but generally 1500 was a one off I mean normally 1200 1300 I'm on my way home

DC WINSTONE
Right okay

Darren NICHOLLS
In a an' like my wife thought I worked a long day but I stopped in The Cock at Rayne

DC WINSTONE
Okay so the next the next call the next call is at 1557 and that's a two minute call logged from um STEELE's home address

Darren NICHOLLS
Yeah

DC WINSTONE
To your mobile do you remember that

Darren NICHOLLS
(Pause) to be honest no I don't really I mean I know I spoke to him that day and I know he said to me meet me at Ron PARKINSONS and he was saying to me how quick can you get there what time can you be there sort of thing but I can't remember actual um I can't remember you know conversation if you know what I mean

DC WINSTONE
Right

Darren NICHOLLS
I can't say yeah I remember like um cause I don't I mean I know what happened that day and I know I met him an' I know I can't even remember really approx I mean it must have been it was dark Ron PARKINSONS' was open and they shut at 1800 so I must have been there to meet him before six and Ron PARKINSONS still open cause like I say I I'm pretty sure I bought a motorbike battery that day for my ol' BSA and put it in the motor I was driving which I parked across the road from Ron PARKINSONS. Before I got in his Hi-Lux see like I was there before him and then we sat there an' an' like he said oh yeah well blarr blarr Jack and then Jack pulled up behind us and I didn't notice he said but Jack's behind us

DC WINSTONE
Which pubs did you go into at Rayne

Darren NICHOLLS
Rayne we always go in The Cock, there's only The Welsh Princess or The Cock

DC BROWN
So with that Darren when you went into Ron PARKINSONS' was Mickey there at that time

Darren NICHOLLS
No I'm pretty certain he wasn't there

DC BROWN
No

Darren NICHOLLS
I'd come out with my battery and I'm not sure if he was there

DC BROWN
Did you actually arrange the time or did it or was it

Darren NICHOLLS
Get there as soon as you can there wasn't

DC BROWN
And I'm coming down and I'll meet you there

Darren NICHOLLS
There was a time I mean I just can't think of it it was early I mean Ron PARKINSONS' was open and it was um I don't know

DC BROWN
And that an' you say you bought a new battery

Darren NICHOLLS
Put it in my car

DC BROWN
Put it in your car

Darren NICHOLLS
I think I mean I have bought I I've met him a few times and one of the times I bought a battery and like for some reason I think it was that time

DC BROWN
Are you saying that you've actually met Mickey STEELE at Ron PARKINSONS before

Darren NICHOLLS
Yeah well I like I have met him there before yeah that was a

DC BROWN
So forgetting the incident that happened on the 061200 that we were gonna go into what were the circumstances of you meeting him there at Ron PARKINSONS before

Darren NICHOLLS
Oh when I'd got some money for him things like that and when he when I said like cause I work at Heathrow an' like I do do some long days and he'll ring me up and want to meet me an' talk to me or or get his money off me I'll say to him oh please meet us half way like and he'll alright then I'll meet you at Ron PARKINSONS and he'll say right I'm leaving now you leave now sort of thing

DC BROWN
Right

Darren NICHOLLS
An' so I have met him there before

DC BROWN
Yes but but you

Darren NICHOLLS
I'm always there before him he's always late that bloke

DC BROWN
But you're you're fairly happy in you own mind that it was possibly that occasion when you bought the battery.

Darren NICHOLLS
I'm pretty sure it was that occasion I mean I can't like that's I'm say pretty sure because generally if it was early enough he'd say no come over to me he'd be really like no you can come to me if you see what I mean if it it would have to be quite late like and I'd say look f..k me I got up a 0400 this morning to go to work can't you just meet me and he he'd say yeah okay then like halfway sort of thing you know he wasn't very um he wasn't a very easy person to do like what you wanted it had to be his way that's why I think it was then cause there's not many times I've ever been to Ron PARKINSONS and it's been open I normally look in the window dreaming like you know

DC BROWN
Yeah

Darren NICHOLLS
Thinking I'd like to own one

DC BROWN
Okay so getting back to that and as you appreciate Darren we're when we're gonna have to dissect everything that happens from now on

Darren NICHOLLS
Yeah

DC BROWN
Yeah with within the timescale so that do you you've mentioned before you obviously went there in a vehicle and in previous discussions that you can't remember that have you had any more thoughts on what vehicle that you went there in

Darren NICHOLLS
I can t remember um it sticks in me head that it might've been my firms van

DC BROWN
Which is

Darren NICHOLLS
Um it's an old yellow Toyota Hi-Lux um Hiace a really battered ol' yellow one it's not mine it actually belongs to DWT

DC BROWN
What a pick-up or a van

Darren NICHOLLS
A van

DC BROWN
A van right

Darren NICHOLLS
A battered up ol' van

DC BROWN
And then where do you think you parked it

Darren NICHOLLS
Oh I everytime I ever went to meet him I always parked in the same place apart from

DC BROWN
Which is

Darren NICHOLLS
Um do you know Ron PARKINSONS at all

DC BROWN
Yes

Darren NICHOLLS
Right so you come off of the roundabout

DC BROWN
Yes

Darren NICHOLLS
And you come round the corner to Ron PARKINSONS and as you come round the corner there's some flats on your left that road there. I used to go down there

DC BROWN
There's a little parking area there isn't there

Darren NICHOLLS
I didn't park in the parking area I mean the yellow lines come round that corner and I used to basically turn round and park on the edge of the yellow lines so I was on no yellow lines by the yellow lines do you see what I mean

DC BROWN
Yes yeah I do

Darren NICHOLLS
So I just basically legally parked and then I'd normally go and day dream in the shop window and he'd turn up an'

DC BROWN
Right so get specifically on the 061200 so you park up with the vehicle that you believe may have been the the the Toyota

Darren NICHOLLS
I think it was that as I say I don't know why but i think it was that

DC BROWN
And then you walk across the road and (pause) was Mickey there or do you think you

Darren NICHOLLS
No he wasn't there

DC BROWN
So you've gone over and hung around on the car park of of or the front of PARKINSONS

Darren NICHOLLS
No they were open that's that's why I looked inside and I think I bought a battery but I I have bought a battery from 'em a long time ago but I bought a battery an' um I'm sure I bought it then

DC BROWN
Okay so going back to that

Darren NICHOLLS
And put it back in the van then I think as I'm sort of going back to the van he's pulled up and sort of like bib bib and I had to sort of go hang on a minute I'm putting my battery in cause they say keep it upright for an hour an' a half before you use it sort of thing that's my

DC BROWN
And if and if that obviously was the case then you go back over

Darren NICHOLLS
An' get in his motor

DC BROWN
And get in his car right

Darren NICHOLLS
Right I had the mobile phone with me

DC BROWN
Right and would you just take it from there so you get in to the car and what is the the like the deal or not deal but like you know what's gonna happen as far as you're concerned

Darren NICHOLLS
He said would (pause) I it's difficult I think we're waiting for Jack right I don't know how the conversation come to it and the conversation is we're meeting we're meeting TATEY we're gonna go for a deal with him about we're gonna show him where there's gonna be a Cocaine drop an you see thats what I'm saying in my mind I think he did say to me they wasn't having a deal they're showing 'em where a deal is I'm not certain if he was saying to me there's gonna be a deal on this is where a deals gonna be

DC BROWN
Right now at that time Darren can you cast your mind back and think what you were wearing

Darren NICHOLLS
What I was wearing absolutely no hope these are new boots me old boots are me old boots are newish boots and I'm normally wearing a pair of boots so like I'm thinking that the pair of boots that I might have been wearing would I've been wearing boots yeah cause I didn't change me clothes or nothing like that I go straight from work. Generally work is tracksuit bottoms because you can move like around in these an' you don't sweat as much as jeans just an ol' T-shirt and it would be a pair of boots cause I've never actually owned a pair of trainers 'till about a month ago I've never had a pair for years

DC BROWN
Right and you think that's probably what you were dressed in then do you

Darren NICHOLLS
Ninety nine per cent chance it'll be a

DC BROWN
And an' do you remember what STEELE was wearing

Darren NICHOLLS
No I'm see I know he was wearing overalls but

DC BROWN
No I mean at that time I

Darren NICHOLLS
... put them on yeah

DC BROWN
we don't want to jump forward

Darren NICHOLLS
No I think to be honest with you I think (pause) no I don't I mean I know when we went back to the Hi-Lux he took off overalls and wellies and his shoes (pause) no I think he was just wearing clothes because I presume that this assumption that I'm sure he was just wearing clothes he wasn't like dressed unusually so I thought to meself he's unusually dressed I think he was wearing clothes and probably changed when he parked his Hi-Lux because I supppose if you're gonna show someone in the middle of the dirty old a field where you're gonna have a deal it wouldn't be unusual for them to think oh he's putting a pair of wellies on sort of thing you know.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 04:14:17 PM
In Nicholls interview above, he mentions purchasing a battery from Ron Parkinson's.  He was able to produce a receipt for this purchase. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 04:15:57 PM
Were they all, or at least Whomes and Steele as well-known drug runners / suppliers and especially after the Betts affair not put under surveillance which was withdrawn shortly before the murders?  And that evidence later concealed?
I've not seen any evidence to support the theory that they were under surveillance prior to the murders.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 28, 2019, 04:17:58 PM
I'm just going back to Tucker's voice mail messages on his mobile and the call which I believe is from his girlfriend Anna Whitehead at 4.21 in

"Hi babe only me can you give me a ring round the flat, the flat what I used to be in [number?] [remember?] 557679 yes ring me straightaway yeah, right speak to you in a minute.  If not come round my other flat, I'm round [joy's] [the drive?] at the moment, wanna come round the flat.  I'll be here for the next about 15 minutes alright speak to you in a minute bye".

To my mind the above doesn't make sense.  She's asking him to call her at a flat she's not present at?  She's at Joys or the the drive.  I translated 'drive' but sika had it down as 'Joy's"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs

The number she refers to 557679 is a Basildon landline number registered to someone in the name of Garwood.  Possibly a Donna Garwood who accomapnied Tate and Rolfe to Amsterdam to bring cash back in respect of the dodgy cannabis.  This number feature in the tel schedules.   
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 04:25:19 PM
And are we really to believe that Nicholls only became a police informant during Jan '96 and not before:

In January 1996 Nicholls became a police informant. His handler was Detective Constable Bird. Their relationship was a corrupt one.

Especially given

The third importation occurred on 7/8 November. Nicholls and Corry collected £125,000 from Steele in the presence of Whomes. Nicholls and Corry then took the overnight ferry from Harwich and made their way to Stone's café. Although the preference had been to obtain herbal cannabis only cannabis resin was available. On this occasion Nicholls had hired a car but had had some difficulty with the hire company because it insisted on payment by credit card rather than cash. Nicholls did not have sufficient credit on his credit card and so had to telephone home to arrange for his wife to pay money into a bank account. The bank then provided a reference number which persuaded the hire company to release the car. All this was confirmed by documentary exhibits. Having obtained the drugs from Stone, Nicholls was unable to contact Steele and spoke instead to Whomes. Nicholls and Corry then proceeded to Blankenberg where the drugs were loaded into Steele's boat. Steele and Corry then returned to England with the drugs in the boat. Nicholls returned the hire car to Amsterdam and, having missed the night ferry, stayed in the Delta Hotel. He had difficulty in making telephone contact with Steele which is not surprising because in the early hours of 8 November Steele, Whomes, Corry and another man had been arrested on the beach at Felixstowe. At that time, according to Nicholls, the drugs had already been off-loaded at another point on the coast and the boat had then proceeded to Felixstowe where Corry was cleaning it at the time of arrest. A small trace of cannabis was later found in the boat following its seizure on this occasion. However those who had been arrested were soon released and no-one was charged with any offence at the time. Nicholls' knowledge of what had occurred in his absence came from subsequent conversations with Steele who also described tampering with the navigation system of the boat so that there was no record of where it had been.
Bent cop, Wolfgang Bird approached Nicholls in a pub in January 96.  This was of course just weeks after the murders when Police had commenced their investigation/surveillance operation. 

I therefore find it quite believable that this could have been Nicholls first instance of "grassing".
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 28, 2019, 04:36:10 PM
I'm just going back to Tucker's voice mail messages on his mobile and the call which I believe is from his girlfriend Anna Whitehead at 4.21 in

"Hi babe only me can you give me a ring round the flat, the flat what I used to be in [number?] [remember?] 557679 yes ring me straightaway yeah, right speak to you in a minute.  If not come round my other flat, I'm round [joy's] [the drive?] at the moment, wanna come round the flat.  I'll be here for the next about 15 minutes alright speak to you in a minute bye".

To my mind the above doesn't make sense.  She's asking him to call her at a flat she's not present at?  She's at Joys or the the drive.  I translated 'drive' but sika had it down as 'Joy's"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs

The number she refers to 557679 is a Basildon landline number registered to someone in the name of Garwood.  Possibly a Donna Garwood who accomapnied Tate and Rolfe to Amsterdam to bring cash back in respect of the dodgy cannabis.  This number feature in the tel schedules.   

This number appears numerous times in the tel schedules as calls from Tucker's mobile to the landline 557679 answered by Tate.  Then on other occasions it features as a call from the landline by Tate and shows as an alarm call to Tate.  Could the landline have been at a property used as a 'safe house' to store drugs with a security alarm that rang mobiles in the event of the alarm going off? 

If the girlfriends assisted in some way, or had knowledge, this would account for the fact some of Anna's phone messages appear to make little sense.  She's unlikely to leave incriminating tel messages for obvious reasons.  This might also explain her message about back from the stables at circa 11pm.

Donna Jagger in her WS makes ref to a 'safe house' and deals taking place at Tucker's stables.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511362#msg511362

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511364#msg511364
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 04:51:41 PM
Jack Whomes' mother certainly seems to think her son is innocent but then I guess most do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imGdtTtBZs0

His siblings have also been very supportive especially his brother John Whomes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqFvk6wPGuc

I wonder if we could invite John to join the forum and/or ask him to upload case related docs?
i think that the Whomes family, in particular, John, have cooperated in this manner before. 

Crime writer Bernard O'Mahoney used to host a web site that supported Steele & Whomes.  It contained a lot of case related docs.  I have always assumed that these were provided by the Whomes family. 

O'Mahoney was involved in numerous 'projects' related to the case.  Having spent many years supporting the two, suddenly and for no apparent reason, O'Mahoney changed his stance and declared that the two men were in fact guilty as charged.

In his most recent documentary/film, O'Mahoney, on a night out with him, covertly recorded John Whomes allegedly admitting to his brothers involvement in the killings.  It was in fact, a crudely edited bit of audio that was intended to mislead and create a wholly false impression.  I fear that for this reason, John would be reluctant to get involved.  However, he would do well to give it serious consideration, as I feel sure that Holly would prove to be a seriously useful asset. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 04:58:47 PM
This number appears numerous times in the tel schedules as calls from Tucker's mobile to the landline 557679 answered by Tate.  Then on other occasions it features as a call from the landline by Tate and shows as an alarm call to Tate.  Could the landline have been at a property used as a 'safe house' to store drugs with a security alarm that rang mobiles in the event of the alarm going off? 

If the girlfriends assisted in some way, or had knowledge, this would account for the fact some of Anna's phone messages appear to make little sense.  She's unlikely to leave incriminating tel messages for obvious reasons.  This might also explain her message about back from the stables at circa 11pm.

Donna Jagger in her WS makes ref to a 'safe house' and deals taking place at Tucker's stables.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511362#msg511362

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511364#msg511364
Donna Garwood was a girlfriend of Tony Tuckers.

The 'safe house' that is referred to, is Mick Steeles mothers garage in Point Clear. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 05:00:16 PM
The little paperclip icon appears on your post but nothing has attached?
I tried to post up a copy of the hand written letter!

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 28, 2019, 05:01:42 PM
I'm just going back to Tucker's voice mail messages on his mobile and the call which I believe is from his girlfriend Anna Whitehead at 4.21 in

"Hi babe only me can you give me a ring round the flat, the flat what I used to be in [number?] [remember?] 557679 yes ring me straightaway yeah, right speak to you in a minute.  If not come round my other flat, I'm round [joy's] [the drive?] at the moment, wanna come round the flat.  I'll be here for the next about 15 minutes alright speak to you in a minute bye".

To my mind the above doesn't make sense.  She's asking him to call her at a flat she's not present at?  She's at Joys or the the drive.  I translated 'drive' but sika had it down as 'Joy's"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs)

The number she refers to 557679 is a Basildon landline number registered to someone in the name of Garwood.  Possibly a Donna Garwood who accomapnied Tate and Rolfe to Amsterdam to bring cash back in respect of the dodgy cannabis.  This number feature in the tel schedules.   
*%87    Cor' Blimey!... are you sure Essex is not in some far distant land where English is unheard of?

Sounds more like - "I'm round (at) Joy's (flat) at the moment" - whoever she is!

https://youtu.be/YGpxqhR1PYs?t=266 (https://youtu.be/YGpxqhR1PYs?t=266)

Tap the F5 key to repeat.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 05:11:03 PM
Just listened to Steele's police interviews part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCNylOuQc5Y

Just to add again someone has narrated a number of vids and claims to be reading original docs verbatim - no checks carried out to verify authenticity.

Venue: Colchester Police Station
Date: 14/05/96
Time: 22.30 - 22.45
Duration: 15 mins
Interviewing Officers: DC Richard Shakespeare and DC Philip Norton

- Firearm seized from Steele's property which was unconnected to murders.  Did he have a firearms licence for the weapon?

- A sum of cash was also seized.  He claims it was a loan to his partner from a relative pending sale of her home.  I believe Steele and his partner were about to sell their current home and purchase another.  She mentions this in his alibi.  I think it more likely the cash was from the proceeds of drug deals.  Significant quantities of cash often represent proceeds of crime/tax evasion.

- Officers put to him that Nicholls said they met at Marks Tey at 6pm on eve of murders.  If this was so and they travelled to Halfway House, Brentwood where Steele supposedly transferred to the Range Rover carrying Rolfe, Tate and Tucker for onward journey to Rettendon this would put him at soc at 7.07pm along with the murdered trio.  According to prosecution the mobile calls between Nicholls/Whomes at 6.59pm represent a call from Whomes to Nicholls for the getaway car.  I assume this is the reason Nicholls account was changed from 6pm to 5pm?  From the CoA doc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCNylOuQc5Y @ 12 min in meet at Marks Tey at 6pm

The arrangement was that Nicholls would meet Steele at Marks Tey at 5.00 o'clock.

Nicholls account is a crock of shite imo.
Steele didn't have a firearms licence.  Due to his previous convictions, he would never have been granted one.

Steele and Jackie Street had just purchased Meadow Cottage and were in the process of selling their current home, Oaklands.

The meeting time of 6pm was put to Steele but Nicholls had been unsure of the time in his account.  He knew it was before 6pm because Ron Parkinsons was still open when he arrived there.

Just to be clear, Steeles interview which is mentioned above was conducted on 16/5/96.  It was his 3rd interview.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 28, 2019, 05:59:29 PM
20/06/96 - Statement of WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD

Forenames WOLFGANG FORREST
Occupation POL DC
1C 1
Height 6'1

Number of Pages 4
Dated 200696 W F BIRD Signed

I make this statement of my own free will. I understand that I do not have to say anything but that it may harm my defence if I do not mention when questioned something which I later reply on in court. This statement may be giyen in evidence. I have been held on remand at H.M.P. Norwich since the 180596. I have been held in custody for about 5 weeks.

I am being held in a Segregation Unit at H.M.P. Norwich. I am held in a cell alone. This cell is about ten (10 foot by six (6) foot. I have a bed and a cardboard table and chair. The walls are covered by remnants of food. There is also a toilet and a wash basin. The Segregation Unit is the punishment house where the most difficult prisoners are held for short periods of time.

I am in my cell generally for twenty three hours a day subject to time for visits and exercise (which is generally thirty (30) minutes to an hour). I have very limited opportunity to hold a conversation with anybody else. I receive regular verbal abuse. I am at present receiving medication for depression and sleeping problems. I have regular medical checks'.

I do not feel mentally alert and. I feel I would have an inability to concentrate during an interview. I make this statement with the assistance of my legal representative. On the 290296 my registered informant, Darren NICHOLLS (pseudonym Ken RUGBY) provided me with information regarding the location of a quantity of cannabis resin. Details are recorded on an Essex Police Registered Informant Contact Form dated 290295, this in fact relates to 290296.

The wrong date was entered in error. I completed this form. The next day on the 010396 I met with Darren NICHOLLS and he identified the location of the cannabis resin. This is recorded on the same Essex Police form, dated 010396, and completed by me. These forms are handed to and logged by, the Detective Inspector.

As a result of this information I informed DS STIMPSON and arrangements through Detective Inspector ORPE were made for an Essex Police Diving Team to search for the cannabis resin and retrieve it if found. The same day a Diving Team attended ARC Pits, Church Lane, Bocking. After searching for some while they recovered a quantity of plastic bags and a holdall containing cannabis resin. The plastic bags were open and torn in varying degrees.

The cannabis resin was mushed, a number of blocks were broken. The cannabis resin was also saturated. The amount of cannabis resin was not weighed at the lake. DS STIMPSON and I, at the conclusion of the search, returned to Braintree Police Station with the recovered cannabis resin. We went straight to the Police Station from ARC Pits without interruption.

At the Police Station it was decided to store the cannabis resin in a lock up garage because of the smell and its saturated condition. DS STIMPSON and I laid out a number of blocks to dry, placed the mushier cannabis resin in a property bag and left the original bags and the holdall to dry. All the cannabis resin was placed in the lock up garage. I did not know how much had been recovered.

It was too wet to weigh, we did not have scales and a Scenes of Crime Officer was due to attend. As far as I am aware there was one key to the lock up. This was one of the reasons it was chosen for storage. The lock up was locked. After this day I attended the lock up on two more occasions.

Once with DS STIMPSON and a senior Scenes of Crime Officer to assess the suitability of the cannabis resin for analysis. Secondly, with PC NEAFSEY and a reporter from a local newspaper for publicity photograph. I did not retain the key at any time. The one occasion I had possession of the key was when PC NEAFSEY the reporter and I attended the lock up. We left the lock up together at the end of the visit.

I can not remember if PC NEAFSEY or I obtained the key for the purpose of the visit and which one of us returned it. I did not retain the key at any stage. I remember that when PC NEAFSEY and I attended the lock up with the reporter the cannabis resin had all been placed in Essex Police Property bags and sealed. They were photographed still sealed. I did not know who had sealed the cannabis resin or when it was done.

I am aware that approximately one week later a further search of ARC Pits was conducted and a further quantity of cannabis resin recovered. I was not involved in this and at no time had contact with this quantity of cannabis resin later recovered. At no time from the point of being made aware of the location of the cannabis resin until its being sent to the laboratory have I stolen any of this cannabis resin.

I totally deny the allegation against me. All reports concerning the seizure were to my knowledge as estimate of recovery based upon information from Darren NICHOLLS and heightened from maximum positive publicity. Darren NICHOLLS, as my registered informant, received a reward of four hundred pounds for the information he supplied. I have not at any time received any of this sum from him and totally deny the allegation against me.

The information from Darren NICHOLLS was that he was aware of the location of the cannabis resin; he was sketchy as to detail. At no time did he admit to me that he was responsible for putting the cannabis resin in the ARC Pit. When I pushed him to provide more details and the source of his knowledge he provided the details recorded in the Contact Forms.

Although I had my doubts as to the explanations he was providing I did not feel that I had reasonable grounds to act further at that time. I deny the allegations that Darren NICHOLLS now makes against me. I would like to add that D.I. ORPE was responsible for organising the diving team. I am aware that he had difficulty getting authority because the information was from an untried source and necessitated calling out officers at short notice.

The officers investigating this matter have indicated to me that members of the diving team state that they met DS STIMPSON and I with a further bag of seized cannabis resin at Braintree Police Station after our return. I do not clearly recall this but if that was the case this part of the seizure would have been placed with the rest.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 10:46:05 AM
In Nicholls interview above, he mentions purchasing a battery from Ron Parkinson's.  He was able to produce a receipt for this purchase.

I recall reading about this elsewhere and it wasn't what it seems or was contested in some way.  Anyway lets assume he did purchase a battery from Ron Parkinson's shop how does this support Steele/Whomes carrying out the murders?  The shop was based in Marks Tey.  The murders Rettendon.  Distance between the two places is 24 miles/28 minutes. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 11:37:40 AM
17/05/96 - RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW of Darren Nicholls


DC BROWN
So getting back roughly to that phone call about 1400 then Darren that that you think that that was on on your way home from from work when you you'd already mentioned to us that he he'd like to meet you

Darren NICHOLLS
Yeah I would be on my way home from work (Pause)

DC WINSTONE
Further on then at 1506 there's another call from STEELE to your on his mobile phone to your mobile phone that's only a short one at fourteen seconds

Darren NICHOLLS
It could be an answering machine message I mean see when I'm coming home from work see what I do I go to work really early and come home quite early yeah that's my to miss the traffic

DC WINSTONE
Alright you mentioned to us before that you were going to a pub in Rainham to see some mates

Darren NICHOLLS
No Rayne

DC WINSTONE
Rayne I beg your pardon

Darren NICHOLLS
Rayne which is like literally Braintree

DC BROWN
Oh I'm sorry I thought you said Rainham before

Darren NICHOLLS
No Rayne

DC BROWN
That's Rayne okay

Darren NICHOLLS
RAYNE

DC BROWN
Yeah well we know Rayne now but

Darren NICHOLLS
I'm sorry yeah

DC BROWN
Okay

Darren NICHOLLS
On our way home from work me and cause I don't go to work on me own like um we always generally shall we go to the pub nar yeah alright then and we'll go in the pub for a couple of beers like literally every night on the way home cause that is a horrible journey and we do like five hours travelling

DC WINSTONE
Well that was going to be my next question if you left a 1400 what sort of time would you've arrived at the pub

Darren NICHOLLS
Oh no I might I might have been on my way by then I mean I'm not saying I left at 1400 I might have been on my way. What we tended to do was leave for work 0500 in the morning and like we could get round to TI by 0630 0645 and then we'd get all out tools in we'd start work the cafe would open at 0730 we'll fly over there and have something to eat and a cup of tea and then we'd work 'til or I we just set targets we'll do that and we'll go home because you know like the job's running over a few months so there's no point in killing it I mean and we all wanted to go home so we sort of set a target and it normally I mean we've left there before 1200 before where we flew in an' done what we've go to do and we'll come back tomorrow and carry on and other times I've been there as late as late as 1500 but generally 1500 was a one off I mean normally 1200 1300 I'm on my way home

DC WINSTONE
Right okay

Darren NICHOLLS
In a an' like my wife thought I worked a long day but I stopped in The Cock at Rayne

DC WINSTONE
Okay so the next the next call the next call is at 1557 and that's a two minute call logged from um STEELE's home address

Darren NICHOLLS
Yeah

DC WINSTONE
To your mobile do you remember that

Darren NICHOLLS
(Pause) to be honest no I don't really I mean I know I spoke to him that day and I know he said to me meet me at Ron PARKINSONS and he was saying to me how quick can you get there what time can you be there sort of thing but I can't remember actual um I can't remember you know conversation if you know what I mean

DC WINSTONE
Right

Darren NICHOLLS
I can't say yeah I remember like um cause I don't I mean I know what happened that day and I know I met him an' I know I can't even remember really approx I mean it must have been it was dark Ron PARKINSONS' was open and they shut at 1800 so I must have been there to meet him before six and Ron PARKINSONS still open cause like I say I I'm pretty sure I bought a motorbike battery that day for my ol' BSA and put it in the motor I was driving which I parked across the road from Ron PARKINSONS. Before I got in his Hi-Lux see like I was there before him and then we sat there an' an' like he said oh yeah well blarr blarr Jack and then Jack pulled up behind us and I didn't notice he said but Jack's behind us

DC WINSTONE
Which pubs did you go into at Rayne

Darren NICHOLLS
Rayne we always go in The Cock, there's only The Welsh Princess or The Cock

DC BROWN
So with that Darren when you went into Ron PARKINSONS' was Mickey there at that time

Darren NICHOLLS
No I'm pretty certain he wasn't there

DC BROWN
No

Darren NICHOLLS
I'd come out with my battery and I'm not sure if he was there

DC BROWN
Did you actually arrange the time or did it or was it

Darren NICHOLLS
Get there as soon as you can there wasn't

DC BROWN
And I'm coming down and I'll meet you there

Darren NICHOLLS
There was a time I mean I just can't think of it it was early I mean Ron PARKINSONS' was open and it was um I don't know

DC BROWN
And that an' you say you bought a new battery

Darren NICHOLLS
Put it in my car

DC BROWN
Put it in your car

Darren NICHOLLS
I think I mean I have bought I I've met him a few times and one of the times I bought a battery and like for some reason I think it was that time

DC BROWN
Are you saying that you've actually met Mickey STEELE at Ron PARKINSONS before

Darren NICHOLLS
Yeah well I like I have met him there before yeah that was a

DC BROWN
So forgetting the incident that happened on the 061200 that we were gonna go into what were the circumstances of you meeting him there at Ron PARKINSONS before

Darren NICHOLLS
Oh when I'd got some money for him things like that and when he when I said like cause I work at Heathrow an' like I do do some long days and he'll ring me up and want to meet me an' talk to me or or get his money off me I'll say to him oh please meet us half way like and he'll alright then I'll meet you at Ron PARKINSONS and he'll say right I'm leaving now you leave now sort of thing

DC BROWN
Right

Darren NICHOLLS
An' so I have met him there before

DC BROWN
Yes but but you

Darren NICHOLLS
I'm always there before him he's always late that bloke

DC BROWN
But you're you're fairly happy in you own mind that it was possibly that occasion when you bought the battery.

Darren NICHOLLS
I'm pretty sure it was that occasion I mean I can't like that's I'm say pretty sure because generally if it was early enough he'd say no come over to me he'd be really like no you can come to me if you see what I mean if it it would have to be quite late like and I'd say look f..k me I got up a 0400 this morning to go to work can't you just meet me and he he'd say yeah okay then like halfway sort of thing you know he wasn't very um he wasn't a very easy person to do like what you wanted it had to be his way that's why I think it was then cause there's not many times I've ever been to Ron PARKINSONS and it's been open I normally look in the window dreaming like you know

DC BROWN
Yeah

Darren NICHOLLS
Thinking I'd like to own one

DC BROWN
Okay so getting back to that and as you appreciate Darren we're when we're gonna have to dissect everything that happens from now on

Darren NICHOLLS
Yeah

DC BROWN
Yeah with within the timescale so that do you you've mentioned before you obviously went there in a vehicle and in previous discussions that you can't remember that have you had any more thoughts on what vehicle that you went there in

Darren NICHOLLS
I can t remember um it sticks in me head that it might've been my firms van

DC BROWN
Which is

Darren NICHOLLS
Um it's an old yellow Toyota Hi-Lux um Hiace a really battered ol' yellow one it's not mine it actually belongs to DWT

DC BROWN
What a pick-up or a van

Darren NICHOLLS
A van

DC BROWN
A van right

Darren NICHOLLS
A battered up ol' van

DC BROWN
And then where do you think you parked it

Darren NICHOLLS
Oh I everytime I ever went to meet him I always parked in the same place apart from

DC BROWN
Which is

Darren NICHOLLS
Um do you know Ron PARKINSONS at all

DC BROWN
Yes

Darren NICHOLLS
Right so you come off of the roundabout

DC BROWN
Yes

Darren NICHOLLS
And you come round the corner to Ron PARKINSONS and as you come round the corner there's some flats on your left that road there. I used to go down there

DC BROWN
There's a little parking area there isn't there

Darren NICHOLLS
I didn't park in the parking area I mean the yellow lines come round that corner and I used to basically turn round and park on the edge of the yellow lines so I was on no yellow lines by the yellow lines do you see what I mean

DC BROWN
Yes yeah I do

Darren NICHOLLS
So I just basically legally parked and then I'd normally go and day dream in the shop window and he'd turn up an'

DC BROWN
Right so get specifically on the 061200 so you park up with the vehicle that you believe may have been the the the Toyota

Darren NICHOLLS
I think it was that as I say I don't know why but i think it was that

DC BROWN
And then you walk across the road and (pause) was Mickey there or do you think you

Darren NICHOLLS
No he wasn't there

DC BROWN
So you've gone over and hung around on the car park of of or the front of PARKINSONS

Darren NICHOLLS
No they were open that's that's why I looked inside and I think I bought a battery but I I have bought a battery from 'em a long time ago but I bought a battery an' um I'm sure I bought it then

DC BROWN
Okay so going back to that

Darren NICHOLLS
And put it back in the van then I think as I'm sort of going back to the van he's pulled up and sort of like bib bib and I had to sort of go hang on a minute I'm putting my battery in cause they say keep it upright for an hour an' a half before you use it sort of thing that's my

DC BROWN
And if and if that obviously was the case then you go back over

Darren NICHOLLS
An' get in his motor

DC BROWN
And get in his car right

Darren NICHOLLS
Right I had the mobile phone with me

DC BROWN
Right and would you just take it from there so you get in to the car and what is the the like the deal or not deal but like you know what's gonna happen as far as you're concerned

Darren NICHOLLS
He said would (pause) I it's difficult I think we're waiting for Jack right I don't know how the conversation come to it and the conversation is we're meeting we're meeting TATEY we're gonna go for a deal with him about we're gonna show him where there's gonna be a Cocaine drop an you see thats what I'm saying in my mind I think he did say to me they wasn't having a deal they're showing 'em where a deal is I'm not certain if he was saying to me there's gonna be a deal on this is where a deals gonna be

DC BROWN
Right now at that time Darren can you cast your mind back and think what you were wearing

Darren NICHOLLS
What I was wearing absolutely no hope these are new boots me old boots are me old boots are newish boots and I'm normally wearing a pair of boots so like I'm thinking that the pair of boots that I might have been wearing would I've been wearing boots yeah cause I didn't change me clothes or nothing like that I go straight from work. Generally work is tracksuit bottoms because you can move like around in these an' you don't sweat as much as jeans just an ol' T-shirt and it would be a pair of boots cause I've never actually owned a pair of trainers 'till about a month ago I've never had a pair for years

DC BROWN
Right and you think that's probably what you were dressed in then do you

Darren NICHOLLS
Ninety nine per cent chance it'll be a

DC BROWN
And an' do you remember what STEELE was wearing

Darren NICHOLLS
No I'm see I know he was wearing overalls but

DC BROWN
No I mean at that time I

Darren NICHOLLS
... put them on yeah

DC BROWN
we don't want to jump forward

Darren NICHOLLS
No I think to be honest with you I think (pause) no I don't I mean I know when we went back to the Hi-Lux he took off overalls and wellies and his shoes (pause) no I think he was just wearing clothes because I presume that this assumption that I'm sure he was just wearing clothes he wasn't like dressed unusually so I thought to meself he's unusually dressed I think he was wearing clothes and probably changed when he parked his Hi-Lux because I supppose if you're gonna show someone in the middle of the dirty old a field where you're gonna have a deal it wouldn't be unusual for them to think oh he's putting a pair of wellies on sort of thing you know.

I find him totally unreliable and he's clearly an untrustworthy individual who it appears to me is always looking to pull a fast one:

- He served a custodial sentence for counterfeiting
- Clearly undeterred by the above he willingly joins Steele in his importation of cannabis from Holland. 
- He obviously has the trust of someone to work unsupervised and supervise others.  The job is running over (meaning behind schedule?) but instead of pulling his finger out he spends the first part of the morning in the cafe and is then off by midday. 
- Having put in a 4/5 hour shift he heads to a pub in Rayne where it seems he spends his afternoons.  Drink driving?
- He seems to take delight in telling the officers how his wife thinks he's working when he's actually wiling away his afternoons in the pub
- I can't find anything of evidential vlaue
- He claims he left Braintree for work at circa 5am.  He then drove to Heathrow and then back to the the pub in Rayne, Braintree before meeting up with Steele at Marks Tey.  And yet not a word about the dire road conditions, traffic and snow?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

- Post murders he was happy to continue his association with Steele/Whomes.  The official verdict (CoA doc) seems to be that the last importation took place on 7/8 Nov.  This was the dodgy batch of cannabis that was either returned to supplier John Stone or supposedly destroyed.  And yet come May '86 Nicholls is stopped and has 10k of cannabis in his boot.  I see no reason/evidence that Steele stopped importing post dodgy batch or post murders? 

- Officers are asking about Nicholls's whereabouts/times and yet I see no evidence his mobile phone/data was placed under the sort of scrutiny Whomes' mobile phone/data underwent?  The technology clearly existed at that time to determine his whereabouts and times based on his mobile calls made and received. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 03:10:04 PM
It became apparent that Steele and Whomes had arranged a meeting with Tate. Steele said that its purpose was a drugs deal. From Marks Tey Steele and Nicholls travelled in the Toyota and Whomes followed in the Passat. Both vehicles stopped at a country park at which point Nicholls joined Whomes in the Passat which Nicholls then drove. Whomes told Nicholls to drive to the Halfway House public house and park. When they arrived the Toyota was there and Whomes told Nicholls to park at a distance from it. A Range Rover then arrived and parked next to the Toyota. Whomes said that it was Tate in the Range Rover. Whomes then directed Nicholls along the A130 close to the village of Rettenden. He indicated a farm track whereupon Nicholls drove in and turned the car round. Whomes got out of the car, told Nicholls to go elsewhere and await a phone call to pick Whomes up at the same place. Whomes took a canvas bag and a coat from the back of the car. Nicholls drove to a nearby public house, The Wheatsheaf. There he saw that his mobile phone signal was poor so he drove off and parked again in Meadow Road. Before very long Whomes telephoned to be picked up. Nicholls drove back to the farm track. At first he did not see anyone but Whomes arrived and went into the back of the car.

The above is from CoA re Nicholl's account of the murders:

Which farm track?

"He parked again in Meadow Road".  When was the first time?

According to Nicholls he and Whomes waited for the Range Rover at the Halfway House.  Once it turned up he and Whomes then left in the VW Passat.  Meanwhile Steele is transferring from his own car to the Range Rover for onward journey to Rettendon.  Nicholls did not say anything about driving fast but I assume he must have done to race the Range Rover to Rettendon with Whomes needing to be dropped off, walk a distance from the dropping off point to the soc and lie in wait with the shotgun at the ready!

Total BS imo.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 03:26:56 PM
20/06/96 - Statement of WOLFGANG FORREST BIRD

Forenames WOLFGANG FORREST
Occupation POL DC
1C 1
Height 6'1

Number of Pages 4
Dated 200696 W F BIRD Signed

I make this statement of my own free will. I understand that I do not have to say anything but that it may harm my defence if I do not mention when questioned something which I later reply on in court. This statement may be giyen in evidence. I have been held on remand at H.M.P. Norwich since the 180596. I have been held in custody for about 5 weeks.

I am being held in a Segregation Unit at H.M.P. Norwich. I am held in a cell alone. This cell is about ten (10 foot by six (6) foot. I have a bed and a cardboard table and chair. The walls are covered by remnants of food. There is also a toilet and a wash basin. The Segregation Unit is the punishment house where the most difficult prisoners are held for short periods of time.

I am in my cell generally for twenty three hours a day subject to time for visits and exercise (which is generally thirty (30) minutes to an hour). I have very limited opportunity to hold a conversation with anybody else. I receive regular verbal abuse. I am at present receiving medication for depression and sleeping problems. I have regular medical checks'.

I do not feel mentally alert and. I feel I would have an inability to concentrate during an interview. I make this statement with the assistance of my legal representative. On the 290296 my registered informant, Darren NICHOLLS (pseudonym Ken RUGBY) provided me with information regarding the location of a quantity of cannabis resin. Details are recorded on an Essex Police Registered Informant Contact Form dated 290295, this in fact relates to 290296.

The wrong date was entered in error. I completed this form. The next day on the 010396 I met with Darren NICHOLLS and he identified the location of the cannabis resin. This is recorded on the same Essex Police form, dated 010396, and completed by me. These forms are handed to and logged by, the Detective Inspector.

As a result of this information I informed DS STIMPSON and arrangements through Detective Inspector ORPE were made for an Essex Police Diving Team to search for the cannabis resin and retrieve it if found. The same day a Diving Team attended ARC Pits, Church Lane, Bocking. After searching for some while they recovered a quantity of plastic bags and a holdall containing cannabis resin. The plastic bags were open and torn in varying degrees.

The cannabis resin was mushed, a number of blocks were broken. The cannabis resin was also saturated. The amount of cannabis resin was not weighed at the lake. DS STIMPSON and I, at the conclusion of the search, returned to Braintree Police Station with the recovered cannabis resin. We went straight to the Police Station from ARC Pits without interruption.

At the Police Station it was decided to store the cannabis resin in a lock up garage because of the smell and its saturated condition. DS STIMPSON and I laid out a number of blocks to dry, placed the mushier cannabis resin in a property bag and left the original bags and the holdall to dry. All the cannabis resin was placed in the lock up garage. I did not know how much had been recovered.

It was too wet to weigh, we did not have scales and a Scenes of Crime Officer was due to attend. As far as I am aware there was one key to the lock up. This was one of the reasons it was chosen for storage. The lock up was locked. After this day I attended the lock up on two more occasions.

Once with DS STIMPSON and a senior Scenes of Crime Officer to assess the suitability of the cannabis resin for analysis. Secondly, with PC NEAFSEY and a reporter from a local newspaper for publicity photograph. I did not retain the key at any time. The one occasion I had possession of the key was when PC NEAFSEY the reporter and I attended the lock up. We left the lock up together at the end of the visit.

I can not remember if PC NEAFSEY or I obtained the key for the purpose of the visit and which one of us returned it. I did not retain the key at any stage. I remember that when PC NEAFSEY and I attended the lock up with the reporter the cannabis resin had all been placed in Essex Police Property bags and sealed. They were photographed still sealed. I did not know who had sealed the cannabis resin or when it was done.

I am aware that approximately one week later a further search of ARC Pits was conducted and a further quantity of cannabis resin recovered. I was not involved in this and at no time had contact with this quantity of cannabis resin later recovered. At no time from the point of being made aware of the location of the cannabis resin until its being sent to the laboratory have I stolen any of this cannabis resin.

I totally deny the allegation against me. All reports concerning the seizure were to my knowledge as estimate of recovery based upon information from Darren NICHOLLS and heightened from maximum positive publicity. Darren NICHOLLS, as my registered informant, received a reward of four hundred pounds for the information he supplied. I have not at any time received any of this sum from him and totally deny the allegation against me.

The information from Darren NICHOLLS was that he was aware of the location of the cannabis resin; he was sketchy as to detail. At no time did he admit to me that he was responsible for putting the cannabis resin in the ARC Pit. When I pushed him to provide more details and the source of his knowledge he provided the details recorded in the Contact Forms.

Although I had my doubts as to the explanations he was providing I did not feel that I had reasonable grounds to act further at that time. I deny the allegations that Darren NICHOLLS now makes against me. I would like to add that D.I. ORPE was responsible for organising the diving team. I am aware that he had difficulty getting authority because the information was from an untried source and necessitated calling out officers at short notice.

The officers investigating this matter have indicated to me that members of the diving team state that they met DS STIMPSON and I with a further bag of seized cannabis resin at Braintree Police Station after our return. I do not clearly recall this but if that was the case this part of the seizure would have been placed with the rest.

3 officers involved in this case have either faced disciplinary hearings and/or faced criminal trials and/or been found guilty:

Bird
Stimpson
Shakespeare

The above are probably the tip of the ice-berg.  Who was working with who and what channels of communication existed between the various players?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 04:02:28 PM
i think that the Whomes family, in particular, John, have cooperated in this manner before. 

Crime writer Bernard O'Mahoney used to host a web site that supported Steele & Whomes.  It contained a lot of case related docs.  I have always assumed that these were provided by the Whomes family. 

O'Mahoney was involved in numerous 'projects' related to the case.  Having spent many years supporting the two, suddenly and for no apparent reason, O'Mahoney changed his stance and declared that the two men were in fact guilty as charged.

In his most recent documentary/film, O'Mahoney, on a night out with him, covertly recorded John Whomes allegedly admitting to his brothers involvement in the killings.  It was in fact, a crudely edited bit of audio that was intended to mislead and create a wholly false impression.  I fear that for this reason, John would be reluctant to get involved.  However, he would do well to give it serious consideration, as I feel sure that Holly would prove to be a seriously useful asset.

Or liability!  I have no allegiance to any of these people. 

As it stands I think there's a lot more to this case than meets the eye and I'm more inclined to see Steele/Whomes innocent. 

I know I keep repeating it but I just don't understand the emphasis on Whomes' mobile calls at 18.59.  We know cells/masts are situated all over the country.  Whomes was in the vicinity of Rettendon therefore his calls were routed through masts at Ingatestone and Hockley.  Which masts were Nicholls calls received on?  I would like to see mast data for every call on all the relevant mobiles throughout the day to plot movements. 

If Tate was at Rettendon at 18.44 when he received his call from Sarah Saunders which mast was this call routed through?  If it wasn't Ingatestone or Hockley then this totally destroys the prosecution case.  Nicholls received a call on his mobile at 19.19 and 21.22.  He made a call at 19.55.  He may well have made others but these are listed on the schedule.  Which masts were these calls routed through?  Does it fit with his evidence? 

https://www.coolsmartphone.com/2016/11/10/locate-mobile-mast/

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 04:05:16 PM
Donna Garwood was a girlfriend of Tony Tuckers.

The 'safe house' that is referred to, is Mick Steeles mothers garage in Point Clear.

Once Rolfe, Tate and Tucker took delivery of their share of the cannabis and handed over money for it I doubt they would keep it at Steele's mother at Point Clear? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 04:15:00 PM
*%87    Cor' Blimey!... are you sure Essex is not in some far distant land where English is unheard of?

Sounds more like - "I'm round (at) Joy's (flat) at the moment" - whoever she is!

https://youtu.be/YGpxqhR1PYs?t=266 (https://youtu.be/YGpxqhR1PYs?t=266)

Tap the F5 key to repeat.

Oooo that's clever, thanks. 

It doesn't make sense to me she's asking Tucker to call her on a landline straightaway but then says she's elsewhere and will be there for the next 15 mins  *%87. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 29, 2019, 04:34:54 PM
Or liability!
Oh, I don't know... you're pretty good at loading an Anschutz magazine.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 04:39:55 PM
Oh, I don't know... you're pretty good at loading an Anschutz magazine.

Despite longish polished nails  8)-)))
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 29, 2019, 04:44:36 PM
Oooo that's clever, thanks. 
It doesn't make sense to me she's asking Tucker to call her on a landline straightaway but then says she's elsewhere and will be there for the next 15 mins  *%87 .
The more I listen to it, the more it sounds like - "I'm on the drive at the moment" - i.e. she's on her way to the other flat.

You can reduce the speed by clicking on the gear icon and adjusting it about .75.  Any less, such as .5, and it becomes too distorted to make out what she said.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 04:45:32 PM
From the CoA doc:

Each mobile telephone making or receiving a call does so by way of a radio signal, which is routed through one of many local transmitters, commonly called 'cell sites', which provide a general coverage throughout the country. Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed.  In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules.We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation. Both calls were made from Whomes' mobile to Nicholls' mobile on the evening of 6th Dec; both calls were made at 18.59. The first call was made at 18.59.21, the outgoing call was routed through the Ingatestone cell site, this call lasted one second. The second call was at 18.59.32, the outgoing call was routed through the Hockley 3 cell site, this call lasted 4 seconds.

It seems then other calls were viewed against masts? 

sika do you know anything about this?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 29, 2019, 05:22:16 PM
The more I listen to it, the more it sounds like - "I'm on the drive at the moment" - i.e. she's on her way to the other flat.

You can reduce the speed by clicking on the gear icon and adjusting it about .75.  Any less, such as .5, and it becomes too distorted to make out what she said.
You're lucky I didn't recommend turning on auto-generated subtitles.  8(8-))
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 29, 2019, 06:19:39 PM
From the CoA doc:

Each mobile telephone making or receiving a call does so by way of a radio signal, which is routed through one of many local transmitters, commonly called 'cell sites', which provide a general coverage throughout the country. Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed.  In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules.We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation. Both calls were made from Whomes' mobile to Nicholls' mobile on the evening of 6th Dec; both calls were made at 18.59. The first call was made at 18.59.21, the outgoing call was routed through the Ingatestone cell site, this call lasted one second. The second call was at 18.59.32, the outgoing call was routed through the Hockley 3 cell site, this call lasted 4 seconds.

It seems then other calls were viewed against masts? 

sika do you know anything about this?
I have been trying to upload, very detailed call logs from Nicholls mobile.  I can't make head nor tail of it, to be honest!  If I copy and paste it, it ends up listing all the info, rather than showing it in a nice grid as per the original. 

It does demonstrate to me that all the call information from all the relevant phones was available at trial.

Steele is no fool.  He would have created merry hell if this information was not available or was concealed.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 29, 2019, 06:44:12 PM
I recall reading about this elsewhere and it wasn't what it seems or was contested in some way.  Anyway lets assume he did purchase a battery from Ron Parkinson's shop how does this support Steele/Whomes carrying out the murders?  The shop was based in Marks Tey.  The murders Rettendon.  Distance between the two places is 24 miles/28 minutes.
I think I've got that wrong.  It turned out to be a light bulb that he purchased.

The relevance?  It supports his story and timings.

It is proving to be quite laborious, trying to post up all the information I have.  I'm struggling to post documents and am able only, to copy and paste.  There is of course a maximum character limit also.

I really want you to be able to read Steeles evidence and cross examination, as well as the evidence from his alibi witnesses.  His account, utterly unbelievable from the outset, was absolutely torn to shreds during cross examination. 


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 29, 2019, 06:54:41 PM

Same here.   Formatting text from elsewhere has gone to pot on this forum, as has uploading photos and attachments over a miniscule size.
Any chance of going back to the good old days of 2012?  (when we had the forum to ourselves 8(0(* )
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 08:23:53 PM
The more I listen to it, the more it sounds like - "I'm on the drive at the moment" - i.e. she's on her way to the other flat.

You can reduce the speed by clicking on the gear icon and adjusting it about .75.  Any less, such as .5, and it becomes too distorted to make out what she said.

Tried it at .75 and .50.  No idea 'drive' or 'Joy'.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 29, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
I have been trying to upload, very detailed call logs from Nicholls mobile.  I can't make head nor tail of it, to be honest!  If I copy and paste it, it ends up listing all the info, rather than showing it in a nice grid as per the original. 

It does demonstrate to me that all the call information from all the relevant phones was available at trial.

Steele is no fool.  He would have created merry hell if this information was not available or was concealed.

That's what I thought re Steele ie he would be a rat up up a drainpipe with it, unless of course he thought best to stay away!?

If I was innocent of the murders I would want all the data ie every call made/received from all phones: self, Nicholls, Whomes, Rolfe, Tate, Tucker for 6th Dec.  Even if Nicholls, Steele, Whomes were in the area on drugs business only it would potentially show up anomalies with the call boxes, if for example Steele's mobile showed him making/receiving calls in locations away from the call boxes meaning it was impossible for him to have been in the two places at the same time.

If the info was made available how reliable was it?  Did the defence obtain direct from tele communication companies and relevant experts or did the police forward?  If the latter how reliable is it?  How can it be evidenced that the data is authentic and hasn't been manipulated in some way.  Hopefully the defence carried out checks.

I would be interested in looking at the info.  If it helps I can pm you my email?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 30, 2019, 03:52:54 PM
I think this case has long tentacles involving police corruption, probably at senior ranks as well as what is known about junior ranking officers, crime bosses, professionals and those prepared to launder ill-gotten gains through legitimate companies.

Rolfe's partner, Donna Jaggers, said on the day of the murders the trio met with a Peter Cuthbert at TGI Fridays Lakeside. 

Peter Cuthbert has held a number of directorships since the early 90's:

https://companycheck.co.uk/director/901864658/MR-PETER-GEORGE-CUTHBERT/companies

He featured in O'Mahoney's books on a couple of occassions

Providing details for Tucker to purchase the Range Rover:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dfdB0IIeEvIC&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=peter+cuthbert+dorman+2000&source=bl&ots=6iYJuI23fy&sig=ACfU3U3-lQ1-8mfykp4h8DxW_QD28Py5Zg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirrtLI5ZXgAhXdUBUIHSEqCqgQ6AEwCHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=peter%20cuthbert%20dorman%202000&f=false

I thought the Range Rover was Rolfe's?

And here it seems he tries to act as a restraint on Tucker:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dfdB0IIeEvIC&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=peter+cuthbert+dorman+2000&source=bl&ots=6iYJuI23fy&sig=ACfU3U3-lQ1-8mfykp4h8DxW_QD28Py5Zg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirrtLI5ZXgAhXdUBUIHSEqCqgQ6AEwCHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=peter%20cuthbert%20dorman%202000&f=false

And here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dfdB0IIeEvIC&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=peter+cuthbert+dorman+2000&source=bl&ots=6iYJuI23fy&sig=ACfU3U3-lQ1-8mfykp4h8DxW_QD28Py5Zg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirrtLI5ZXgAhXdUBUIHSEqCqgQ6AEwCHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=peter%20cuthbert%20dorman%202000&f=false

O'Mahoney recounts the same story in two different books except in one book he was the victim of Tucker's violent outburst and in the other book he claims it was Nipper Ellis.

So although Tate, Tucker and Rolfe were by all accounts violent thugs with drug addled brains it seems they associated with some who provided them with a semblance of respectability:

- Barry Dorman - Former MET police officer and used car salesman

- Peter Cuthbert - Director of what appear to be legitimate property companies

Is there any truth in Noye financing some of the drug deals?  It appears he met Tate when they were serving time at Swalesdale prison?

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on January 30, 2019, 05:45:22 PM
Have you watched this recently uploaded O'Mahoney video, Holly?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIR-dbxUmI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIR-dbxUmI)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 30, 2019, 10:21:45 PM
Have you watched this recently uploaded O'Mahoney video, Holly?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIR-dbxUmI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIR-dbxUmI)
This is Mr O'Mahoney's most recent attempt to cash in on the story.  It climaxes with his effort to elicit some sort of confession out of John Whomes.

The film is basically his own interpretation of events, rather than being evidence driven.  That is fair enough.  However, it is worth bearing in mind, that his version of events changes from one project to the next.  In this one, he champions Steele's story that Nicholls was the mastermind behind the importations.  Says it all really!



Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 30, 2019, 10:32:10 PM
I think this case has long tentacles involving police corruption, probably at senior ranks as well as what is known about junior ranking officers, crime bosses, professionals and those prepared to launder ill-gotten gains through legitimate companies.

Rolfe's partner, Donna Jaggers, said on the day of the murders the trio met with a Peter Cuthbert at TGI Fridays Lakeside. 

Peter Cuthbert has held a number of directorships since the early 90's:

https://companycheck.co.uk/director/901864658/MR-PETER-GEORGE-CUTHBERT/companies

He featured in O'Mahoney's books on a couple of occassions

Providing details for Tucker to purchase the Range Rover:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dfdB0IIeEvIC&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=peter+cuthbert+dorman+2000&source=bl&ots=6iYJuI23fy&sig=ACfU3U3-lQ1-8mfykp4h8DxW_QD28Py5Zg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirrtLI5ZXgAhXdUBUIHSEqCqgQ6AEwCHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=peter%20cuthbert%20dorman%202000&f=false

I thought the Range Rover was Rolfe's?

And here it seems he tries to act as a restraint on Tucker:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dfdB0IIeEvIC&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=peter+cuthbert+dorman+2000&source=bl&ots=6iYJuI23fy&sig=ACfU3U3-lQ1-8mfykp4h8DxW_QD28Py5Zg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirrtLI5ZXgAhXdUBUIHSEqCqgQ6AEwCHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=peter%20cuthbert%20dorman%202000&f=false

And here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dfdB0IIeEvIC&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=peter+cuthbert+dorman+2000&source=bl&ots=6iYJuI23fy&sig=ACfU3U3-lQ1-8mfykp4h8DxW_QD28Py5Zg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirrtLI5ZXgAhXdUBUIHSEqCqgQ6AEwCHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=peter%20cuthbert%20dorman%202000&f=false

O'Mahoney recounts the same story in two different books except in one book he was the victim of Tucker's violent outburst and in the other book he claims it was Nipper Ellis.

So although Tate, Tucker and Rolfe were by all accounts violent thugs with drug addled brains it seems they associated with some who provided them with a semblance of respectability:

- Barry Dorman - Former MET police officer and used car salesman

- Peter Cuthbert - Director of what appear to be legitimate property companies

Is there any truth in Noye financing some of the drug deals?  It appears he met Tate when they were serving time at Swalesdale prison?
The Range Rover was registered in Rolfes name.

Former MET Policeman, used car salesman = respectable?   You do surprise me, Holly!

There is certainly a suggestion that Noye met Tate.  Whether he was financing any of the deals?  I guess we'll never know.  My hunch would be no.  Why would Noye, with his connections and means, entrust a loose cannon like Tate with tens of thousands? 

I can see why some would find O'Mahoneys books quite entertaining, but I would keep a large amount of salt nearby whilst reading. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 30, 2019, 10:42:28 PM
Essexboys - Documents
PETER GEORGE CUTHBERT Statement

STATION NAME: PETER GEORGE CUTHBERT
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 42
10021953

Who states:- This statement consisting of 006 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 121295
P G CUTHBERT (SIGNED)

I am a self employed suspended ceiling contractor and I am the owner of a company called M and A Suspended Ceiling which I run from my home address. I am the owner of a Mitsubishi Shogun motor vehicle index K2CUF. I have lived the majority of my life in the South Essex area mainly in the Basildon area and after I got married I moved to the Hadleigh area. I have lived at my current address for the past 3 years with my wife and 2 children. When I lived in Basildon I got to know a man called Pat TATE who also lived in the Basildon area. This would have been approximately 12 years ago. I did not consider Pat a friend at this stage he was just somebody who I knew from Basildon who I could say hello to.

I saw Pat very irregularly and never socialised with him. All of my adult life I have been involved in body building training and have trained in a number of gyms in and around the Basildon and Hadleigh area. About 2 years whilst I was training at the Academy Gym, London Road, Westcliff I met two men who also trained in there Tony TUCKER and Craig ROLFE. I had never met either of these men previously but I was aware of Tony TUCKER because I had heard of him in conjunction with running the bouncers at night clubs in the Southend and Basildon areas. The reasons we started to get to know each other was because Tony was intending to buy a gym and he was asking if I was interested in doing work on the ceilings.

This work never took place. But after this I started to see both Tony and Craig on a social basis which included going to clubs with them in the Basildon or Southend area. This was not an occurance that happened every week but on the odd occasion. I think it would have been in 000394, Pat TATE came out of prison and he started seeing Tony and Craig and it appeared to me that Pat and Tony were quite close. Even when Pat came out I was still training with them and also seeing them socially. During the summer this year I did some work for Tony at his new house in Fobbing where I put a suspended ceiling into gym for him. I know that during 000095 Pat TATE when back into prison for firearms offences. I can't remember exactly when it was but I think it would have been in either 000900 or 001095 Pat was released from prison.

On the night he was released a big party was arranged for him at the Dagenham Snooker Club which I attended. Also at this party was both Tony and Craig. I can't remember anything out of the ofdinary happening at this party and I believe I left about 0200 - 0300 hours. This would have been the last time I saw any of the three socially. On the 151195 I went with Tony TUCKER to Eastern Garage Car Sales, London Rd, A13, Corringham which is actually situated at The Five Bells Roundabout. I was going to buy on HP a Range Rover motor vehicle Vogue index F424NPE. Although this was my vehicle and I signed for responsibility of paying the HP it was going to be lent by me to Tony and Craig for there use. In there a General Guarantee for Finance HP form was completed by a member of staff.

This form included my details and the details of the vehicle and showing a total purchase price of ten thousand nine hundred and nin
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 30, 2019, 10:44:33 PM

BARRY THOMAS DORMAN Statement

NAME: BARRY THOMAS DORMAN
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 47

04091948

Who states:- This statement consisting of 012 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 081295
B T DORMAN (SIGNED)

I am the above named person and I live at the address overleaf with my daughter Susan Louise DORMAN who is 17 years old. I have lived at this address for the last sixteen years.About 18 - 19 years ago I was working as a shift engineer at Tunnel Refineries, Greenwich. At this time I was buying and selling cars in my spare time and as a result I met a man called Patrick TATE. At this time Pat was living in Havengore, Pitsea, and he was about 19 to 20 years old.My contact with Pat continued as I started to see him attending car auctions. As a result of this we continued our contact on a friendly business basis but our contact was limited to the dealing in second hand cars.About 11 years ago I had a serious car accident and as a result of my injuries I had to give up my full time job at Tunnel Refineries. After about a year as a result of my continued contact with Pat TATE it was suggested by him that I try the second hand car trade full time.

It was through Pat that I managed to acquire the rented forecourt located at the junction of the old A13 and One Tree Hill. At this time the garage was called Eastern Garage and the forecourt was a separate entity alongside. I took up the forecourt with my cousin, Steven DILLON, who was already a car trader in London. We named the forecourt Cousin Cars and began trading in 000085. My contact with Pat TATE increased as he was running another car front on Canvey Island called Beech Autos. My contact with Pat was still limited to a friendly business basis. After about five years my cousin and I had a big fall out and as a result we parted company. I continued to trade and was joined at the site by a man called Graham LAW who at that time was also trading from the Five Bells Roundabout site on the A13.

After a period of time the two garages amalgamated as Eastern Garage Car Sales and I ran the Five Bells site and Graham ran the One Tree Hill site. We have continued like this to date. About this time I became aware that Pat TATE had become involved with the police in respect of some criminal matter and that he was in custody. I can remember being contacted by his girlfriend Sarah SAUNDERS who told me that the police had seized about twenty thousand pounds from Pat which they believed was drug related money. It was the first time it was mentioned that Pat may be involved in the dealing of drugs although I had been aware that Pat took or used cocaine himself. I had known Sarah SAUNDERS for many years as her grandmother lived very near to my own house.

She asked me to help Pat by showing that the money was related to car dealing not drug dealing and to do this she asked me to find for her all the car invoices which related to car trades between Pat and myself. I did this and handed them to Sarah and as a result I was required to attend Chelmsford Crown Court at a later date to give evidence at Pat's trial. I was later told by Sarah that Pat had been convicted of robbery and had been sentenced to a long term of imprisonment. Whilst Pat was in prison he contacted me and as a result I went to visit him at a prison in Kent. He asked me to sort out a vehicle for Sarah SAUNDERS which I agreed to do.

I also visited Pat one other time when he had phoned and asked me to go and see him. My next contact with Pat was when I was invited to Pat's release party at Sarah SAUNDERS' mother's address. At this party I was introduced to a person by the name of Steven ELLIS by Pat as well as a number of friends and family. I can also remember spending time with a man I know as Bill BAXTER. I knew Bill BAXTER through the car trade and I knew that Bill had some involvement with Pat in respect of a car front in Southend. Bill BAXTER now runs the car front opposite Nova Car Sales on the London Road, Leigh on Sea and I believe Pat TATE still has a financial involvement with Bill BAXTER.

After the party I can remember Steven ELLIS and Pat coming down to my car site with a view to Steven buying a vehicle. At this time I can remember Steven ELLIS having about seven thousand pounds in cash to spend. To my recollection this would have been about 18 months ago. ELLIS did not buy a vehicle from me but I knew that he had originally come to me on Pat's recommendations. My contact with Pat continued as before with reasonably regular contact through the trade and the sale of a number of vehicles to Pat.

I would describe my relationship with Pat as friendly although we did not socialise outside of work. It was around this sort of time that Pat started talking about a man called Tony TUCKER who he said he had met at a nightclub where Tony was working as a doorman. I had never met Tony but I can remember Pat talking about him. It was around this time that I was told that Pat had been shot and he was in Basildon Hospital. I went to the hospital with Graham LAW to see Pat and when I was there Pat's brother, Russell, turned up.

Although I had known Russell as a car trader, I have had very little to do with him. We only stayed with Pat for about 10 minutes as I merely wanted to let him know that I had heard and passed on my good wishes. Although I had this regular contact with Pat and we had built up a trust between us, he never told me any details of what he was involved in other than to do with cars. As he knew I had previously been in the Metropolitan Police service for a short period and I was also wary of Pat with his volatile temperament, I was always careful of what I asked Pat in case he thought I was trying to get information from him.

I was later told that the man I had met at Pat's party, Steven ELLIS was possibly involved in the shooting, although I do not know whether there is any truth in this. I have never asked Pat about the shooting, or his other business as I know he would be suspicious of my reasons. I later became aware that the police had found a number of items in Pat's possession at hospital and as a result he was returned to prison. I believe the items included a hand gun, a quantity of cocaine and some tablets.

I did not go and see Pat in prison but I was asked by Pat through Sarah SAUNDERS to
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 31, 2019, 12:44:24 PM
Have you watched this recently uploaded O'Mahoney video, Holly?   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIR-dbxUmI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIR-dbxUmI)

I'll watch it later, thanks  8((()*/
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 31, 2019, 01:08:40 PM
Essexboys - Documents
PETER GEORGE CUTHBERT Statement

STATION NAME: PETER GEORGE CUTHBERT
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 42
10021953

Who states:- This statement consisting of 006 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 121295
P G CUTHBERT (SIGNED)

I am a self employed suspended ceiling contractor and I am the owner of a company called M and A Suspended Ceiling which I run from my home address. I am the owner of a Mitsubishi Shogun motor vehicle index K2CUF. I have lived the majority of my life in the South Essex area mainly in the Basildon area and after I got married I moved to the Hadleigh area. I have lived at my current address for the past 3 years with my wife and 2 children. When I lived in Basildon I got to know a man called Pat TATE who also lived in the Basildon area. This would have been approximately 12 years ago. I did not consider Pat a friend at this stage he was just somebody who I knew from Basildon who I could say hello to.

I saw Pat very irregularly and never socialised with him. All of my adult life I have been involved in body building training and have trained in a number of gyms in and around the Basildon and Hadleigh area. About 2 years whilst I was training at the Academy Gym, London Road, Westcliff I met two men who also trained in there Tony TUCKER and Craig ROLFE. I had never met either of these men previously but I was aware of Tony TUCKER because I had heard of him in conjunction with running the bouncers at night clubs in the Southend and Basildon areas. The reasons we started to get to know each other was because Tony was intending to buy a gym and he was asking if I was interested in doing work on the ceilings.

This work never took place. But after this I started to see both Tony and Craig on a social basis which included going to clubs with them in the Basildon or Southend area. This was not an occurance that happened every week but on the odd occasion. I think it would have been in 000394, Pat TATE came out of prison and he started seeing Tony and Craig and it appeared to me that Pat and Tony were quite close. Even when Pat came out I was still training with them and also seeing them socially. During the summer this year I did some work for Tony at his new house in Fobbing where I put a suspended ceiling into gym for him. I know that during 000095 Pat TATE when back into prison for firearms offences. I can't remember exactly when it was but I think it would have been in either 000900 or 001095 Pat was released from prison.

On the night he was released a big party was arranged for him at the Dagenham Snooker Club which I attended. Also at this party was both Tony and Craig. I can't remember anything out of the ofdinary happening at this party and I believe I left about 0200 - 0300 hours. This would have been the last time I saw any of the three socially. On the 151195 I went with Tony TUCKER to Eastern Garage Car Sales, London Rd, A13, Corringham which is actually situated at The Five Bells Roundabout. I was going to buy on HP a Range Rover motor vehicle Vogue index F424NPE. Although this was my vehicle and I signed for responsibility of paying the HP it was going to be lent by me to Tony and Craig for there use. In there a General Guarantee for Finance HP form was completed by a member of staff.

This form included my details and the details of the vehicle and showing a total purchase price of ten thousand nine hundred and nin

Interesting!  Have you got the other page(s)?  He said Tate's 'Coming Out' party was the last time he met with with the trio socially so was the TGI get together business? 

It seems to me he was being somewhat economical with the truth.  He didn't say anything about Tucker threatening Stephen 'Nipper' Ellis with a firearm. 

Why would anyone act as a guarantor on a loan for these characters and/or finance a personally owned car for their use, unless of course he was holding some security  8(0(*  Who eventually settled the loan? 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on January 31, 2019, 02:09:38 PM
I recall reading about this elsewhere and it wasn't what it seems or was contested in some way.  Anyway lets assume he did purchase a battery from Ron Parkinson's shop how does this support Steele/Whomes carrying out the murders?  The shop was based in Marks Tey.  The murders Rettendon.  Distance between the two places is 24 miles/28 minutes.

30/05/96 - STATEMENT of RICKY LEE SNELL

NAME: RICKY LEE SNELL
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 33 11121962

Who states:- This statement consisting of 001 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 300596
R L SNELL (SIGNED)

I am a friend of Darren NICHOLLS, who lives in Bailey Bridge Road, Braintree. I have been asked by Darren if I would look after a green BSA 350 motor cycle for him. The motor cycle had been left at another of his friends, and I collected it on Tuesday of this week, 280596, and brought it back to my house.

Today I showed it to DS68 Tim WILLS and DC2114 GURNEY and took the battery from it handing it to DS WILLS. I noticed that it had written on it in black felt tip pen the date 180995 and the three letters 'RWP', as if it was somebody's initials.

R L SNELL SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 300596
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Apparently the motorcycle shop mark / sign and date the batteries they sell to verify date of purchase for returns.
This is evident from the following statement.

31/05/96 - STATEMENT of MARIA MICHELLE STOCK

NAME: MARIA MICHELLE STOCK
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 18 15091977

Who states:- This statement consisting of 001 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 310596
M M STOCK (SIGNED)

I work as a salesperson at Ron Parkinson Motor Cycles, London Road, Marks Tey, Colchester. Today, Friday 310596 I have been shown a blue label replacement battery of the type we sell here, and some writing on its side, by DS68 Tim WILLS.

I am able to say that when we sell such a battery, we write the date of sale and the company initials on the battery for guarantee purposes. From looking at this battery it would have been sold on 180995. I cannot remember details of the person I sold it to, but from the handwriting on it I would have been the salesperson.

M M STOCK SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 310596
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on January 31, 2019, 02:37:50 PM


Meantime here he is driving his Volvo  8)><( along the A130  @ 9.30 in insisting this is the route the Range Rover took at approx 6pm which he has no evidence for.  Afaik the only cctv footage amounts to Rolfe's Range Rover leaving Lakeside at 6pm.  So how can the Range Rover be at 2 places miles apart at the same time?  Moreover if Donna Jagger and Nicholls are to be believed the Range Rover left Lakeside at 6pm (confirmed by CCTV footage).  It then went to collect Tucker in Fobbing  (Donna Jagger) (and it appears to collect Tate at Basildon?).  It then went to the Halfway House near Brentwood where Steele joined the murdered trio in the Range Rover for forward journey to Rettendon/Workhouse Lane (Nicholls).  According to AA route planner the journey from Halfway house to Rettendon would cross over the A130 so where's the evidence for the Range Rover travelling along the A130?  Numerous routes exist and it may have taken back roads.  In any event if Donna Jagger and Nicholls are to be believed the Range Rover wound not have arrived at Workhouse Lane until just gone 7pm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlqpePQYnck

The A130 shown on the AA route planner did not exist in 1995. The main road through Rettendon close to the SoC was the A130 back in the day. Just for clarity, and not in Darren Nichols statement it is assumed that once Nichols and Whomes left the Halfway House for Rettendon, the Range Rover followed Steele to a pub called the Travellers Joy where Steele then left his vehicle and got in the back of the Range Rover. This assumption is based on Nicholl's statement that after the murders he picked both up at the entrance to the lane and Steele directed him to the Travellers Joy pub where they picked the vehicle up and left for home.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 31, 2019, 04:41:39 PM
30/05/96 - STATEMENT of RICKY LEE SNELL

NAME: RICKY LEE SNELL
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 33 11121962

Who states:- This statement consisting of 001 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 300596
R L SNELL (SIGNED)

I am a friend of Darren NICHOLLS, who lives in Bailey Bridge Road, Braintree. I have been asked by Darren if I would look after a green BSA 350 motor cycle for him. The motor cycle had been left at another of his friends, and I collected it on Tuesday of this week, 280596, and brought it back to my house.

Today I showed it to DS68 Tim WILLS and DC2114 GURNEY and took the battery from it handing it to DS WILLS. I noticed that it had written on it in black felt tip pen the date 180995 and the three letters 'RWP', as if it was somebody's initials.

R L SNELL SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 300596
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Apparently the motorcycle shop mark / sign and date the batteries they sell to verify date of purchase for returns.
This is evident from the following statement.

31/05/96 - STATEMENT of MARIA MICHELLE STOCK

NAME: MARIA MICHELLE STOCK
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 18 15091977

Who states:- This statement consisting of 001 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 310596
M M STOCK (SIGNED)

I work as a salesperson at Ron Parkinson Motor Cycles, London Road, Marks Tey, Colchester. Today, Friday 310596 I have been shown a blue label replacement battery of the type we sell here, and some writing on its side, by DS68 Tim WILLS.

I am able to say that when we sell such a battery, we write the date of sale and the company initials on the battery for guarantee purposes. From looking at this battery it would have been sold on 180995. I cannot remember details of the person I sold it to, but from the handwriting on it I would have been the salesperson.

M M STOCK SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 310596
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Hi Chud.  Welcome to the forum.  I will send you a pm.

Interesting.  So the battery was purchased 18/09/95 and not 06/12/95 as Nicholls claimed!  I guess the RWP stands for Ron W Parkinson.

Unconnected to this case but it appears DS Tim Wills found himself under investigation on at least a couple of occasions. 

Numerous Essex police officers have been under investigation and to my mind they are not to be trusted:

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/4151797.detective-cleared-of-wrongdoing-in-pool-death-inquiry/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/548106/the-baloney-way-is-essex-for-huhne/

Every time an officer pops up with this case I google the name and I'm finding an alarming number have been under investigation. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 31, 2019, 05:41:50 PM
The A130 shown on the AA route planner did not exist in 1995. The main road through Rettendon close to the SoC was the A130 back in the day. Just for clarity, and not in Darren Nichols statement it is assumed that once Nichols and Whomes left the Halfway House for Rettendon, the Range Rover followed Steele to a pub called the Travellers Joy where Steele then left his vehicle and got in the back of the Range Rover. This assumption is based on Nicholl's statement that after the murders he picked both up at the entrance to the lane and Steele directed him to the Travellers Joy pub where they picked the vehicle up and left for home.

I did wonder about that.  Are you saying the A130 as it appears now was in some way different back in Dec '95?  Anyway there's no reliable data about the Range Rovers last movements other than the sighting on cctv at Lakeside at 6pm.  I don't consider Darren Nicholls testimony reliable.

It seems the AA route planner came in to being for consumers around 1999:

https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-history/timeline#routesgrowth

I remember geography lessons with pieces of string to work out distances! 

Are you referring to the Travellers Joy/Hungry Horse at Rayleigh?  It doesn't make sense to me why they would all go to Halfway House, Brentwood let alone then head over to Rayleigh before heading off to Rettendon. 

A possible avenue for Steele/Whomes might be some sort of computerized map plotting locations based on mobile phone data?  Also the phone data examined by a forensic document examiner to ensure what was produced by telecommunication companies and experts re cell/mast analysis wasn't manipulated by Essex Police.  It doesn't seem to me anything like this took place at trial?

Nicholls claimed he met with Steele at Marks Tey at 5pm.  This was then changed to 6pm.  Steele either made or received call on his mobile as follows:

16.39

17.12

18.03

18.09

I say:

SHOW US THE MOBILE PHONE CELL/MAST DATA

Bearing in mind Steele may well have made/received other calls too.  The schedules only appear to show calls relating to the case. 

I find it unbelievable this wasn't done at the time/trial, but if it was why is the case so contentious?  Surely Steel's whereabouts would be known and correlate with calls made/received on his mobile through cell/masts in locations that either support the defence or prosecution.

All these people were constantly making/receiving mobile calls so why is there so much speculation as to their whereabouts?  If the prosecution was able to produced expert evidence showing Whomes' calls to Nicholls at 6.59 put him in the Rettendon area then why can't we have the same data for all the calls showing the whereabouts for every mobile call made/received for 6th Dec for Rolfe, Tait, Tucker, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes?  The trail lasted weeks and cost a small fortune so I doubt it was a cost issue. 

Maybe I should write to Steele.  Just have to explain to my Pete why I'm writing to another Cat A prisoner (after Bamber)  @)(++(*  Is Steele in Whitemoor?  Does anyone know his prison number?  Perhaps I could send an email and that will avoid having to explain any return correspondence as Steele can reply via email albeit prisoners write a reply and someone scans the reply via email. 

 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on January 31, 2019, 07:11:06 PM
Hi Holly,

Yes the A130 or the road called the A130 is relatively new (post 1995). The old road that runs through Rettendon was the A130 in 1995 and gave up that name when the new motorway style link between the A127 and Chelmsford was built.

Yes the Travellers Joy / Hungry Horse. You're right it doesn't make sense for an RV at the Halfway House considering that the three inside the Range Rover probably knew of the final location anyway. I don't consider DN's statement reliable either, considering it was this testimony that eventually put the two inside is why I focus on this detail.

The times do change from 18:00 to 17:00. The first police interview Steele had it was put to him among other things that he had met with Nichols at 18:00. This was the initial timeline. At some point afterwards this changed to 17:00 or thereabouts probably because the overall timeline had no chance of holding water.

I have asked the same questions regarding the mobile phone data. There appears to be detail in only what fits the prosecution. The whole science of this initial data was questioned by an independent expert after the trial (probably for appeal) but was not overturned  for some reason.

In Nichols testimony he never mentions the calls to Whomes from Steele (17.12, 18.03 & 18.09) of which he would of been present at.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: sika on January 31, 2019, 09:55:46 PM
Hi Holly,

Yes the A130 or the road called the A130 is relatively new (post 1995). The old road that runs through Rettendon was the A130 in 1995 and gave up that name when the new motorway style link between the A127 and Chelmsford was built.

Yes the Travellers Joy / Hungry Horse. You're right it doesn't make sense for an RV at the Halfway House considering that the three inside the Range Rover probably knew of the final location anyway. I don't consider DN's statement reliable either, considering it was this testimony that eventually put the two inside is why I focus on this detail.

The times do change from 18:00 to 17:00. The first police interview Steele had it was put to him among other things that he had met with Nichols at 18:00. This was the initial timeline. At some point afterwards this changed to 17:00 or thereabouts probably because the overall timeline had no chance of holding water.

I have asked the same questions regarding the mobile phone data. There appears to be detail in only what fits the prosecution. The whole science of this initial data was questioned by an independent expert after the trial (probably for appeal) but was not overturned  for some reason.

In Nichols testimony he never mentions the calls to Whomes from Steele (17.12, 18.03 & 18.09) of which he would of been present at.
Nicholls never stated that they met at 6pm.  He said he thought it was between 5 & 6pm but felt sure it must have been before 6pm as the shop was still open.


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 01, 2019, 06:09:49 AM
If you pat 'your Pete' on the head and give him a Bonio, he'll agree with anything you want to do!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 01, 2019, 10:58:18 AM
If you pat 'your Pete' on the head and give him a Bonio, he'll agree with anything you want to do!

I'm afraid he's not as a weak-willed as some  8(0(*
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 01, 2019, 11:42:40 AM
So come the trial the battery (police interviews) morphed into a light bulb (trial) and his movements after work (police interviews) amounted to the car journey back to the Braintree area where he headed straight for the pub at Rayne and this then morphed into heading straight to the family home and no pub (trial).   8)-)))

The following is an extract from Judge Hiddens summing up of Steele's evidence under cross examination:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511119#msg511119

From this it seems clear to me that the mobile phone cell/mast data wasn't made available for other phone calls.  I'm really struggling to understand the reason(s) for this?

Phone calls from the Sorrell Horse pub, Barnham were made at approx 14.30.  At this time Nicholls claimed he was en route to either his home in Braintree or the pub in Rayne just outside Braintree.  He had been working at or near Heathrow airport and travelled to Braintree/Rayne via the M25 and M11.  The nearest of these places to the pub at Barnham is Braintree which is 36.0 miles away/47 mins  Steele claims he was at home at this time - home being Great Bentley which is some 26.0 miles away/31 mins. 

Nicholls made/received calls on his mobile at 14.29, 14.52 and 14.56

Steele made/received calls on his mobile at 14.00, 14.11, 15.06 and 15.08

So the sort of evidence made available re Whomes' location when he made the calls to Nicholls at 18.59 would either support the defence or prosecution. 

The above is just one example. Also the phone schedules only appear to feature case related calls.  It's likely Steele, Nicholls and the others made/received non case related calls meaning even more data existed to plot their whereabouts.   

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 01, 2019, 11:56:29 AM
Apparently it is referred to as cell siting  ?>)()<

https://www.forensic-access.co.uk/cell-site-analysis-forensic-mobile-phones/

Maybe I'm overlooking something but I think the cell site info obtained during the investigation/trial needs analysing for all calls and the info obtained, presumably by Essex Police, needs examining by a forensic document examiner.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 01, 2019, 12:46:22 PM
Nicholls never stated that they met at 6pm.  He said he thought it was between 5 & 6pm but felt sure it must have been before 6pm as the shop was still open.

Yes that's correct, it was the police (DC Shakespeare 17/05/96) interviewing Steele that made that suggestion.

I would ask you again Mr STEELE could you tell me the reasons for making any telephone calls that afternoon to Darren NICHOLLS and to Jack WHOMES (pause). If you didn't make any telephone calls to them could you tell me who did (pause). If you weren't in possession of your mobile phone on the afternoon of 061295 could you tell me who was (pause). Darren NICHOLLS as I've said tells us that he was working at Heathrow Airport when he had a telephone call from you asking to meet him at Parkinson's Shop at Marks Tey.

Darren NICHOLLS has told us that as a result of that phone call which wasn't unusual, he tells us he would do running jobs for you he would run around for you because he was an associate of yours that's the sort of thing he says he would ask you to do, sorry you would ask him to do. Is that true (pause). He says that he arrived at Parkinson's Shop in Marks Tey at about 1800 on Monday 061295. You arrived he says, or you were there in a Hi-Lux motor vehicle, I'm sure that DC NORTON could remind us of the number of that.

Subsequently, under oath (141096) Nicholls states

I went through Rettendon the latter part of 1995. I remember an occasion when I was there with other people, they were Jack Whomes and Michael Steele, I remember that day. I was at work that day, I was working at Sunbury on Thames, my mobile was with me. Michael Steele rang me that day, he wondered where I was and would like to meet me, we did not discuss where we would meet because I was at work, I agreed to meet him later on that day, at Ron Parkinson’s motorcycles, Marks Tey at 5 o’clock, I drove to Marks Tey, in I think my Golf Convertible, I have been to Ron Parkinsons before, it sells motorcycles. When I arrived I parked in the flats opposite, Mr Steele wasn’t there when I arrived. When I arrived I went into the motorbike shop, I bought something for my old motorbike it was either a battery or a light bulb, I then put it in my car.



Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 01, 2019, 12:51:57 PM
From Afensis Forensics:

Cell Site Analysis: from undermining the alibi of IAN HUNTLEY in the SOHAM MURDERS,the reconstruction of the location of suspects in the famous ‘RETTENDON ‘RANGE ROVER MURDERS’, to the production in the recent ’21/7 TERRORISM TRIALS’ – CELL SITE ANALYSIS (CSA) evidence has become an essential tool for investigators of serious and organised crime.

https://www.afentis.com/cell-site-analysis/

But it seems to me the 'reconstruction' involved Whomes' location only at the time it is thought the trio were murdered.

What about Tate's location when he received a phone call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44?

What about the location of Nicholls throughout the day/evening.  Does the cell site analysis correlate with his testimony?

What about the location of Rolfe, Tate and Tucker throughout the day/evening?  Does the cell site analysis correlate with the trio being murdered at Rettendon between 19.44 and 19.59?

What about the location of Steele and Whomes during the day/evening?  Does the cell site analysis correlate with Nicholls testimony and the prosecution case against them?

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 01, 2019, 01:09:56 PM
Yes that's correct, it was the police (DC Shakespeare 17/05/96) interviewing Steele that made that suggestion.

I would ask you again Mr STEELE could you tell me the reasons for making any telephone calls that afternoon to Darren NICHOLLS and to Jack WHOMES (pause). If you didn't make any telephone calls to them could you tell me who did (pause). If you weren't in possession of your mobile phone on the afternoon of 061295 could you tell me who was (pause). Darren NICHOLLS as I've said tells us that he was working at Heathrow Airport when he had a telephone call from you asking to meet him at Parkinson's Shop at Marks Tey.

Darren NICHOLLS has told us that as a result of that phone call which wasn't unusual, he tells us he would do running jobs for you he would run around for you because he was an associate of yours that's the sort of thing he says he would ask you to do, sorry you would ask him to do. Is that true (pause). He says that he arrived at Parkinson's Shop in Marks Tey at about 1800 on Monday 061295. You arrived he says, or you were there in a Hi-Lux motor vehicle, I'm sure that DC NORTON could remind us of the number of that.

Subsequently, under oath (141096) Nicholls states

I went through Rettendon the latter part of 1995. I remember an occasion when I was there with other people, they were Jack Whomes and Michael Steele, I remember that day. I was at work that day, I was working at Sunbury on Thames, my mobile was with me. Michael Steele rang me that day, he wondered where I was and would like to meet me, we did not discuss where we would meet because I was at work, I agreed to meet him later on that day, at Ron Parkinson’s motorcycles, Marks Tey at 5 o’clock, I drove to Marks Tey, in I think my Golf Convertible, I have been to Ron Parkinsons before, it sells motorcycles. When I arrived I parked in the flats opposite, Mr Steele wasn’t there when I arrived. When I arrived I went into the motorbike shop, I bought something for my old motorbike it was either a battery or a light bulb, I then put it in my car.

The phone schedules show the following calls made/received:

16.36 - Nicholls mobile - Partner at his home landline

16.39 - Nicholls mobile - Steele mobile

17.09 - Whomes partner at his home landline - Whomes mobile

17.12 - Whomes mobile - Steele mobile

18.03 - Steele mobile - Whomes mobile

18.09 - Steele mobile - Whomes mobile

Bearing in mind the above calls made/received only pertain to the case.  They may well have made/received other calls providing even more data. 

We don't have to speculate about Nicholls' testimony, which imo is totally unreliable, we can build an accurate and complete picture using cell site analysis.  Why wasn't it done?  Was this an oversight by solicitor Chris Bowen and David Lederman QC or what?  If it was done and the analysis favoured the prosecution then why didn't the prosecution use?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 01, 2019, 01:12:15 PM
01/05/02 - Report of David Bristowe regarding mobile telephone evidence

SUMMARY OF OPINION

1. The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) are presently reviewing the case of Mr Michael Steele who, with Mr Jack Whomes, has been convicted of murder.

2. In January 2002 Mr N J Price, the Case Review Manager posed a question relating to mobile "phone evidence given at the trial:- "Given the evidence you (David Bristowe) gave at the trial regarding the effect on telephone signals of foliage, to what degree are your original findings enhanced by the latest tests carried out under similar foliage conditions?" I have addressed this point within this report. In my opinion any effects of foliage on the transmission between a mobile 'phone used in Workhouse Lane and the Hockley cell site would have been very small compared with the effects of a significant hill which is directly In the line of sight between the two points.

3. My subsequent tests, under foliage conditions similar to those at the time of the murder confirmed the results of the tests which I made before the trial. In my opinion, my earlier findings are "enhanced" in that any doubt as to the validity of the earlier tests, as a consequence of differing foliage conditions, has been eliminated.

4. Mr Price also posed the question:- "To what degree are your original findings enhanced by the use of Mr Whomes' mobile 'phone, compared to the equipment used in the tests before the trial?"

5. I had always believed that the best way to carry out the tests was to use Jack Whomes' own 'phone but this was not possible before the Trial. My original results were carried out with equipment which I acknowledged might not respond to the different levels of service provided by the local cell sites in the same way as a mobile 'phone. In my opinion, my original findings have been "enhanced" by the subsequent use of a mobile 'phone to make test calls, and the assistance of Vodafone to analyse the test results. The validity of the test results is further enhanced by the use of Jack Whomes actual 'phone.

6. I maintain the view that the use of the Hockley 54/3 cell identity is consistent with the suggestion by the Defence that Jack Whomes 'phone was used at the Wheatsheaf, but not consistent with the Prosecution assertion that at 18:59 on December 6th 1995 the 'phone was used in Workhouse Lane.

David Bristowe BSc,CEng,MIEE,MAE
1 May 2002

CONTENTS

1. INTRODUCTION 1
2. THE TRIAL 4
3. SUBSEQUENT TESTS 6
4. SERVICE FROM THE HOCKLEY CELL SITE 7

Figure 1
A section of an Ordnance Survey Map showing the line of sight paths between the Wheatsheaf Public House and Workhouse Lane, and the Hockley Cell Site.

Figure 2
An enlarged section of the Ordnance Survey Map showing the line of sight paths near the Wheatsheaf and Workhouse Lane, in greater detail.

Expert Report relating to Additional Mobile
'Phone Evidence in the case of R -v- Steele and Whomes

1. INTRODUCTION

1.1. In January 1998 Michael Steele and Jack Whomes were sentenced to life imprisonment for the murders of Pat Tate, Tony Tucker and Craig Rolfe.

1.2. Part of the evidence at the trial related to the use of mobile 'phones by Michael Steele and Jack Whomes, and by Darren Nichols who claimed to have driven Steele and Whomes to Workhouse Lane, Rettendon, in the early evening of December 6th 1995.

1.3. During the course of the Trial the Prosecution introduced evidence in the form of telephone call detail records given in Court by various representatives of the mobile 'phone companies Cellnet, Vodafone and Orange. Solicitors acting for the two Defendants instructed Forensic Engineering Associates to examine the call detail records and to prepare Expert Evidence reports.

1.4. I, David Bristowe, prepared two reports and I subsequently gave evidence in the Trial.

1.5. My first report dated August 30th 1997 included a theoretical analysis in respect of the Cellnet mobile 'phone 0860-853978 used by Michael Steele, and a similar analysis of calls made on the Vodafone mobile 'phone 0836-215646 used by Jack Whomes. I also examined call detail records relating to Darren Nichols' 'phone 0973-427288, used on the Orange network.

1.6. Following my theoretical analysis I concluded that the telephone evidence was not inconsistent with the explanations put forward by the Defendants that around 18:00 on December 6th 1995 Michael Steel's 'phone was used close to the village of Bulphan, and at 18:59 Jack Whomes' 'phone was used in the car park of the Wheatsheaf public house in Rettendon.

1.7. On a theoretical basis, the telephone records for the two 'phones were also not inconsistent with assertions by the Prosecution, that at 18:00 Michael Steel's 'phone was used at the Halfway House public house in Childerditch and at 18:59 Jack Whomes' 'phone was used in Workhouse Lane, Rettendon.

1.8. I was less inclined to accept the assertion by Darren Nicholls that the service provided to his Orange 'phone in the car park of the Wheatsheaf public house was very poor. The Orange cell site at Rettendon is in line of sight and less than 2 kilometres distant from the Wheatsheaf public house. I would have expected a good service from the Orange network at that location. Furthermore Darren Nicholls claimed to have been in Meadow Road, Rettendon when he received the calls from Jack Whomes at 18:59. These calls were served by the Orange cell site at Basildon, which is not the closest site and not the site which I would have expected to provide best service to an Orange 'phone in Meadow Road.

1.9. Following the issue of my first report I was instructed by the Solicitors acting for the Defence to carry out practical measurements to see if it was possible to determine whether it was more likely that Jack Whomes "phone was used at the Wheatsheaf or in Workhouse Lane, and whether Darren Nicholls version of events was credible. I carried out these tests on September 17th and September 24th 1997.

1.10. To evaluate the service provided by the Orange network I was able to engage the services of Mr David Cole, an Orange Field Engineer who brought with him a comprehensive test set suitable to measure, at any location, the service provided from each of the local Orange cell sites.

1.11. The results of my tests are contained in a report dated September 26th 1997. We found that the Orange network offered a good level of service at the Wheatsheaf car park. For Meadow Road, although at most points the service provided by the Basildon cell site was inferior to that offered by other local sites the Basildon site service was nevertheless generally adequate to provide a service. I cannot dismiss Darren Nicholls claim, that he was in Meadow Road when he received Jack Whomes' call.

1.12. I have been told that Jack Whomes says that he made two attempts to call Darren Nicholls at around 7 pm on December 6th 1995, but that each call "failed". The call records show the first of these two calls as having been made at 18:59:21, via cell identity 724/1, the Sector 1 antenna of the cell site 724 at Baker's Wood, Ingatestone. The call lasted just one second. The second call, at 18:59:32 was served by cell identity 54/3, the Sector 3 antenna of the Hockley cell site and lasted for four seconds.

1.13. Jack Whomes says he tried unsuccessfully to call Darren Nicholls from the car park of the Wheatsheaf to tell him that he had successfully loaded his (Nicholls') broken down car onto a car transporter trailer. The Prosecution alleged that Jack Whomes was then in Workhouse Lane, and the four second call was of sufficient duration to tell Darren Nicholls to return to the Lane to pick up him up, together with Michael Steel.

1.14. In December 1995 the service provided by the Vodafone analogue mobile 'phone in the Rettendon area was poor such that calls were likely to fail. I needed however to examine the service provided at each of the two locations from cell identity 724/1 (Ingatestone), and cell identity 54/3 (Hockley).

1.15. I was unable to obtain the services of Vodafone to carry out a survey and I carried out the measurements myself. The test equipment I used was a radio communications receiver able to be set to the particular frequencies of the analogue mobile 'phone service. I took measurements at the Wheatsheaf and at Workhouse Lane.

1.16. The measurements indicated that both Ingatestone 724/1 and Hockley 54/3 could provide service, albeit a poor service, to a Vodafone mobile 'phone at the Wheatsheaf. Also, at the entrance to Workhouse Lane I detected the control channel from Ingatestone 724/1 at a level which I felt would be adequate to provide service. However I had difficulty in detecting a service from Hockley 54/3 anywhere along the Lane. Where I did detect a signal from Hockley 54/3 it was at a signal level considerably beneath the levels offered by other local cell sites. I believed it very unlikely that the user of a Vodafone analogue mobile 'phone in Workhouse Lane would ever be served by the Hockley 54/3 service.

1.17. If the measurements which I took in September 1997 were representative of the conditions on December 6th 1995 my tests suggest that Jack Whomes was not in Workhouse Lane when he made the call to Darren Nicholls at 18:59.

1.18. In my opinion the reason that Hockley 54/3 cannot be detected in Waterhouse Lane is clear-cut. There is a hill in Rettendon to the south of Workhouse Lane which effectively blocks the line of sight path between the user of a 'phone in Workhouse lane and the cell site antenna which is mounted on a water tower in Hockley. Although cellular 'phone radio signals are to some extent diffracted (bent) over a hilltop, as far as radio waves are concerned Workhouse lane falls within the "shadow" of the hill. The same is not true of the Wheatsheaf which has a clearer line of sight to the Hockley cell site.

1.19. I carried out a similar exercise in relation to Michael Steele's 'phone calls made to Jack Whomes at 18:03 and 18:09 on December 6th 1995. Both calls were served by the BT-Cellnet cell site 0854 at Childerditch. I was told that Michael Steele had said that when he made the calls he was in or close to the village of Bulphan. Conversely, the Prosecution alleged he was in the car park of the Half Way House public house.

1.20. I indicated the results of my tests in a report dated 4th November 1997. In my opinion the calls could well have been made close to Bulphan but it was unlikely that they could have been made from the Halfway House. Just as Waterhouse Lane is screened from the Hockley cell site by the Rettendon Hill, so the Halfway House is shielded from the Childerditch site by raised ground known as Jury Hill.

2. THE TRIAL.

2.1. At the Trial Simon Collins of Orange gave evidence showing the possible use of Darren Nicholls' 'phone in the Rettendon area at 18:48 and 18:59. Robert Foxwell of Vodafone showed that Jack Whomes 'phone could have been used near Rettendon at 18:59, and Dennis Clayton of BT-Cellnet showed the use of Michael Steel's 'phone in the general area of Childerditch. I am not aware that any of these views were challenged by the Defence.

2.2. Cell site analysis is not an exact process. However, although I could not disprove the Prosecution's view of events, the call detail records for Jack Whomes' 'phone and for Michael Steel's 'phone were, in my opinion more consistent with the explanations put forward by the Defendants than with the claims made by the Prosecution.

2.3. I was aware that it might be argued in Court that the measurements I had carried out, and the conclusions I had drawn had certain weaknesses.

2.3.1. The Vodafone service might have changed between the time of the murder and my tests, to the extent that my tests were invalid.

2.3.2. The test equipment which I had used to assess the level of service at the Wheatsheaf and at Workhouse Lane was of good quality but was uncalibrated. Furthermore the reception characteristics of the scanning receiver which I used are not properly representative of an analogue mobile 'phone.

2.4. I had addressed these two points

2.4.1. In December 1995 Vodafone were in the process of updating their service from the older (TACS) analogue mobile 'phone system to the present day (GSM) digital system. I had received assurances from Vodafone that although the analogue service was being maintained, with the advent of the digital system the analogue service was not being up-graded. It was reasonable to assume that as far as the Vodafone system was concerned the state of the Vodafone system at the time of my tests was representative of the system at the time of the murder.

2.4.2. The ideal method to indicate whether Jack Whomes 'phone could have made the call at 18:59 from Workhouse Lane was, in my opinion to make a series of calls, using a Vodafone mobile 'phone, at each of the two locations and from the call detail records note which cell sites served the calls at each location. The characteristics of mobile 'phones vary from model to model and to a lesser extent between different samples of the same model of 'phone. It was for this reason that I attempted to obtain Jack Whomes' own 'phone to reduce any uncertainties concerning the tests. Unfortunately my Instructing Solicitors were unable to obtain the release of Jack Whomes' 'phone from the Essex Police.

2.4.3. I was not unduly concerned. At the Wheatsheaf I had detected what I believed to be poor but probably adequate signal levels both from Ingatestone 724/1 and from Hockley 54/3. My test equipment could not determine the quality of service from these two cell identities but there was no doubt in my mind that signals from both cell identities could be received at the Wheatsheaf. On the other hand the signal I had detected from Hockley 54/3 in Workhouse lane was very weak and considerably beneath the levels of signals from other local cell sites, such that I felt confident that the user of a Vodafone analogue mobile 'phone in Workhouse Lane would not be served by Hockley 54/3.

2.5. In Court the Prosecution suggested to me that my results were not truly representative, particularly because the tests had been carried out in the autumn, when there were leaves on the trees, and the murder took place in the winter when there were fewer leaves. I was asked whether foliage affected the passage of mobile 'phone signals and I confirmed that foliage did marginally affect the passage of radio signals. (Strictly it is the presence of moisture in the leaves which causes any attenuation of radio signals).

2.6. In deeply forested conditions the attenuation of 'phone signals by the foliage might be significant, but in my view the effects of any foliage in that part of Essex would be very small compared with the fact that between Hockley and Workhouse Lane there is a significant hill which blocks the signals far more effectively than any foliage. The same is true to a lesser extent between the BT Cellnet cell site at Childerditch and the Halfway House where the signals are degraded by the presence of Jury Hill.

2.7. I have subsequently had the opportunity to examine a transcript of that part of the summing-up by Mr Justice Hidden which dealt with the telephone evidence. Whilst the Judge's summing up is generally in accordance with what I remember of my evidence it did not, in my view, convey the points which I had hoped to put over, namely that my interpretation of the evidence of the call detail records for December 6th 1995 was that:-

(a) if Jack Whomes 'phone had been used in Retterndon at 18:59, it might have been used at the Wheatsheaf but it is very unlikely that it was used in Workhouse Lane.

(b) if Michael Steel's 'phone was used in the vicinity of the Childerditch cell site at 18:03 and 18:09 it might have been used close to Bulphan, but it is unlikely that it was used at the Halfway House.

(c) Darren Nicholls statement of his whereabouts at 18:59 was unlikely to be correct.

Part 2 below
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 01, 2019, 01:12:49 PM
Part 2

3. SUBSEQUENT TESTS

3.1. After the Trial, for my own satisfaction, I wanted to repeat my tests using Jack Whomes actual 'phone. My Instructing Solicitors had difficulty in persuading the Essex Police to release the 'phone but it was eventually agreed that I could have the 'phone for a strictly limited period, subject to my giving an undertaking that the 'phone would not be adjusted or modified in any way. Officers of the Essex Police then assisted me in replacing the failed 'phone battery and in charging the new battery prior to my tests.

3.2. I was anxious that the independent nature of my tests should be totally beyond question, and I asked that an Officer from Essex Police should witness the tests. This was not possible, but I was fortunate to obtain the help of Mr John Little, a local Councillor who agreed to oversee the tests. Vodafone gave their assistance in putting Jack Whomes' 'phone back "on line" and in agreeing to provide me with copies of the call detail records.

3.3. Despite my belief that in this case foliage had little effect on the propagation of the 'phone signals I arranged for the tests to be carried out on 18th January 2000, when the foliage conditions were similar to the conditions at the time of the murder. Also, to the best of my knowledge, the Vodafone (TACS) analogue 'phone system had remained unchanged since the date of the murders.

3.4. The tests were carried out:-

(i) with Jack Whomes' 'phone which had been stored by the Police since his arrest,

(ii) with the Vodafone TACS system unchanged, and

(iii) at the same time of year as the murder. The tests were, I believe , carried out under conditions closely representative of the conditions at the time and date of the murders.

3.5. The results of the tests are contained in my report dated 22nd February 2000. Of a total of twenty calls made at various locations in the car park of the Wheatsheaf seven were served by Hockley 54/3, and three by Ingatestone 724/1. The remaining ten calls were served by other cell sites in the Chelmsford area including five calls served by Hockley 54/1, the north east facing antenna of the Hockley cell site.

3.6. Of a total of forty one calls made from different points along the relevant length of Workhouse Lane fifteen were served by Ingatestone 724/1. There were no calls served by Hockley 54/3. The remaining 26 calls were served by other cell sites in the Chelmsford area including 4 calls by Hockley 54/1.

3.7. I should emphasise that the tests were carried out "blind", in that there was no way I or anyone else could have known which cell site would serve Jack Whomes' 'phone at the particular point in Workhouse Lane where the 'phone was used for each test call. The actual cell site used was not known until Vodafone were able to analyse the data approximately one month after the tests took place.

3.8. Jack Whomes' 'phone was returned to the Essex Police on the completion of the tests on January 18th 2000.

3.9. When the results of the tests were received they served to confirm my earlier views, that when Jack Whomes made his call at 18:59 on 6th December 1995 he might well have been in the car park of the Wheatsheaf but it is very unlikely that he could have been in Workhouse Lane.

4. SERVICE FROM THE HOCKLEY CELL SITE

4.1. In my report on the tests which I carried out with Jack Whomes 'phone (dated February 2000) I showed that although none of the test calls made from Workhouse Lane were served by Hockley 54/3, the cell site used by Jack Whomes at 18:59 on December 6th 1995, a small number (4/41) of the test calls made from Workhouse Lane were served by cell identity 54/1, the Sector 1 antenna of the Vodafone Hockley cell site.

4.2. The basic configuration of each cell site on the Vodafone analogue (TACS) included three transmitting antennas, with each antenna providing service over a nominal 120 degrees around the site, that is to say plus and minus 60 degrees around the "boresight" or mid point of the coverage angle. In practice the best coverage was provided over some +/- 40 degrees with reduced coverage up to +/- 70 degrees.

4.3. There was a "nominal" arrangement for the Vodafone analogue cell sites in which the three antennas were directed as below:-

Sector Boresight Angle
Sector 1 90 degrees (due east)
Sector 2 210 degrees (approximately south west)
Sector 3 330 degrees (approximately north west)

In practice the antenna angles of any particular cell site could vary significantly from the nominal values.

4.4. In carrying out my analysis prior to the Trial I had been advised by Vodafone that the antenna of the Hockley Sector 3 service was directed at a compass angle of 330 degrees, the standard angle for a sector 3 antenna. However I was also provided with coverage plots for Hockley 543 which suggest that the true orientation of the antenna might have been closer to 310 degrees.

4.5. In my view it is perfectly clear why Jack Whomes 'phone would not have been served by Hockley 54/3 if he was in Workhouse Lane. There is a hill between Workhouse Lane and the Hockley cell site which effectively blocks the line of sight path to the cell site. I now produce my Figures 1 and 2, copies of part of an Ordnance Survey map of the area. The map shows the hill at Rettendon Hail and the New Hall Fruit Farm. I have plotted the profile of the land between Workhouse Lane and the Hockley cell site and note that this hill effectively shields Workhouse Lane from the Hockley cell site. The car park at the Wheatsheaf has a clearer (though still not perfect) line of sight to Hockley.

4.6. I remain unsure of the means whereby signals from the Hockley 54/1 antenna were able to reach Workhouse Lane. I have recently been in contact with Vodafone but have been advised that there are now no records available to indicate the orientation of this antenna in 1995.

4.7. The radio signals which make up the communication path between the cell site and the handset are subject to reflection from solid objects including the terrain itself. In fact "multipath" interference, a phenomenon which occurs when the signal from the transmitter to the receiver arrives via several reflected paths in addition to the direct path, can cause significant problems in the modern GSM (digital) service.

4.8. I have concluded that the unexpected service from Hockley 54.1 which I found in my January 2000 tests in both at Workhouse Lane and at the Wheatsheaf, must have come about as a result of reflection from some geographical feature. It is an unfortunate fact that the Vodafone analogue service has been discontinued, and the modern GSM antennas on the Hockley cell site have different orientations. I do not believe that the reasons for the apparently anomalous service from the Hockley 54.1 antenna, which I found in January 2000 at the Wheatsheaf and at Workhouse Lane, can now be established.

4.9. Nevertheless this does not modify the opinion, which I have expressed throughout, that whereas my tests have indicated that the records of Jack Whomes' 'phone calls at 18:59 on December 6th 1995 are consistent with his being at the Wheatsheaf, my tests do not support the Prosecution assertion, that the calls were made from Workhouse Lane.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 01, 2019, 01:18:21 PM
The phone schedules show the following calls made/received:

16.36 - Nicholls mobile - Partner at his home landline

16.39 - Nicholls mobile - Steele mobile

17.09 - Whomes partner at his home landline - Whomes mobile

17.12 - Whomes mobile - Steele mobile

18.03 - Steele mobile - Whomes mobile

18.09 - Steele mobile - Whomes mobile

Bearing in mind the above calls made/received only pertain to the case.  They may well have made/received other calls providing even more data. 

We don't have to speculate about Nicholls' testimony, which imo is totally unreliable, we can build an accurate and complete picture using cell site analysis.  Why wasn't it done?  Was this an oversight by solicitor Chris Bowen and David Lederman QC or what?  If it was done and the analysis favoured the prosecution then why didn't the prosecution use?

3 really good questions, I don't know the answer to.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 01, 2019, 01:23:29 PM
I believe this was possibly the first time this type of analysis was used in a case of this size or any for that matter. I doubt very much whether Chris Bowen etc had any experience of this before and got caught cold with it.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 01, 2019, 02:36:44 PM
I believe this was possibly the first time this type of analysis was used in a case of this size or any for that matter. I doubt very much whether Chris Bowen etc had any experience of this before and got caught cold with it.

Yes I believe it was the first case in UK where cell site analysis was used. 

But Chris Bowen knew cell site analysis was being used in this case.  It formed a major part of the trial and various experts were instructed.  Thanks for all the info which I haven't had time to read properly yet (housework is calling  8)><() but you can see imo the defence are running scared ie the prosecution is attacking showing the cell site analysis for Steele and Whomes which to some degree fits the prosecution case but where's the cell site analysis for the:

- mobile calls made/received around the time the calls were made from the Sorrel Horse pub?

- mobile calls made/received around the time it was claimed Nicholls, Steele, Whomes met at Marks Tey ie 5pm - 6pm?

- mobile calls made/received after it is claimed the trio were murdered ie post 7pm?  Does it follow Nicholls testimony that they all went straight home?

- and more importantly mobile calls made/received by the murdered trio.  Does this fit with Nicholls testimony/prosecution theory re Steele joining the trio in the Range Rover following them and travelling with them and Tate taking his call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 in Rettendon?  If the prosecution case is correct Tate's call would have come via the same mast Whomes call went through ie Hockley and/or Ingatestone.  If it didn't that's the prosecution case dead  ?>)()< As far as the prosecution was concerned Whomes was in the right place at the right time!  The defence may have been able to show the victim/Tate was in the wrong place at the wrong time!

This gives some idea of how all this works in practice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9-lpE47oWc





Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 02, 2019, 11:08:21 AM
Yes these questions are asked a lot on the forums / youtube etc. I can't understand why there is only selective cell site data available only pertaining to the the prosecution.

From point 2.1 on the above document I can only assume the defence are not challenging that point because it puts Whomes at the Wheatsheaf pub and Steele in the Bulphan area which is part of Whomes story regarding picking up Nicholls car although you're correct that analysis of the other known calls if incriminating would be of use to the prosecution as well so why is it not available?  Looks on the face of it to be a major blunder by the defence.

Thanks
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 03, 2019, 11:56:40 AM
Yes these questions are asked a lot on the forums / youtube etc. I can't understand why there is only selective cell site data available only pertaining to the the prosecution.

From point 2.1 on the above document I can only assume the defence are not challenging that point because it puts Whomes at the Wheatsheaf pub and Steele in the Bulphan area which is part of Whomes story regarding picking up Nicholls car although you're correct that analysis of the other known calls if incriminating would be of use to the prosecution as well so why is it not available?  Looks on the face of it to be a major blunder by the defence.

Thanks

Well we can see from the tel schedules posted up here the calls made available to jurors and judge appear to have been cherry picked by the prosecution which create a narrative skewed towards the prosecution eg:

- Calls from phone boxes to Tucker and Tait but no mobile calls between Tait/Tucker and Steele/Whomes.

- A single call from a phone box to Nicholls.  This could create the impression there's some connection between the two gangs and call boxes are being  used to avoid leaving an electronic footprint coz Steele/Whomes are planning ahead .....

- Numerous calls between Nicholls, Steele and Whomes on their respective mobiles but no calls between the aforementioned Rolfe, Tait and Tucker. 

- Last known effective call taken by murdered trio 6.44pm to Tait from Sarah Saunders and an assumed tod based on this call with the call from Whomes to Nicholls calling up the knackered old Passat as the getaway car  8(>((

- Calls made by Steele/Whomes whilst in the vicinity of the soc at around the time it is thought the trio were murdered based on the above.

If I was a judge or juror on the face of it the above is pretty damn compelling coupled with much made of the dodgy batch of cannabis and Sarah Saunders advising Steele that Tate was talking about sending him up north albeit I believe Sarah Saunders (and Barry Dorman?) were witnesses for the defence and both said they didn't believe there was any ill feeling between Steele/Tait.

As far as I can see the defence didn't use any cell site data it merely attempted to defend like the worst Italian football teams instead of coming out attacking fast and hard like the best ManU teams with style and flair  8(>((

We know the 2 gangs had contact over drug deals so I would like to see the phone records over a much longer period of time.  I would also like to see cell site data for the whole 36 period before the murdered trio were found for Rolfe, Tate, Tucker, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes to plot their movements geographically. 

I would not trust the police in this case period as we know corruption was involved to some degree.  I would want to obtain info direct from tel comm companies and instruct experts to examine all the phones to ensure no foul play/tampering etc by police. 

As the phones were referred to at trial (exhibits) do they still exist for further investigation? 

A picture paints a thousand words and the picture above is a work of art.  I simply don't believe that it could be that perfect ie a masterpiece totally flawless!   8(0(* 

I don't think jurors were daft enough to totally buy into Nicholls testimony.  Imo it was the phone evidence that sent Steele/Whomes down.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 11:50:32 AM
I've now read the reports by defence expert David Bristowe.  It appears to me the upshot of these reports is as follows:

It is more likely Steele was in the vicinity of Bulphan when he made the 18.03 and 18.09 calls to Whomes as opposed to the Halfway House pub as claimed by the prosecution.  (Where was Whomes when he received these calls?)

It is more likely Whomes was in the vicinity of the Wheatsheaf pub when he made the 2 calls at 18.59 to Nicholls as opposed to Workhouse Lane as claimed by the prosecution. 

It is more likely Nicholls was in the vicinity of Basildon when he received the 2 calls at 18.59 from Whomes as opposed to Meadow Road as he claimed (prosecution?)

Just my opinion but I think it highly likely Nicholls, Steele and Whomes were in the area to carry out drug deals (possibly with the murdered trio) but I am unconvinced about their involvement in the murders.

All tests carried out by David Bristowe were not performed on the defendants' phones but same make/model phones as the solicitors were unable to obtain the release of Whomes' phone from Essex Police!

2.4.2. The ideal method to indicate whether Jack Whomes 'phone could have made the call at 18:59 from Workhouse Lane was, in my opinion to make a series of calls, using a Vodafone mobile 'phone, at each of the two locations and from the call detail records note which cell sites served the calls at each location. The characteristics of mobile 'phones vary from model to model and to a lesser extent between different samples of the same model of 'phone. It was for this reason that I attempted to obtain Jack Whomes' own 'phone to reduce any uncertainties concerning the tests. Unfortunately my Instructing Solicitors were unable to obtain the release of Jack Whomes' 'phone from the Essex Police.

He also said the judge did not convey the points he hoped to put  over:

2.7. I have subsequently had the opportunity to examine a transcript of that part of the summing-up by Mr Justice Hidden which dealt with the telephone evidence. Whilst the Judge's summing up is generally in accordance with what I remember of my evidence it did not, in my view, convey the points which I had hoped to put over, namely that my interpretation of the evidence of the call detail records for December 6th 1995 was that:-

(a) if Jack Whomes 'phone had been used in Retterndon at 18:59, it might have been used at the Wheatsheaf but it is very unlikely that it was used in Workhouse Lane.

(b) if Michael Steel's 'phone was used in the vicinity of the Childerditch cell site at 18:03 and 18:09 it might have been used close to Bulphan, but it is unlikely that it was used at the Halfway House.

(c) Darren Nicholls statement of his whereabouts at 18:59 was unlikely to be correct.


Was the above down to a biased summing up by the judge or the expert not spelling it out?

So it seems clear the defence did not even have access to the defendants' mobiles let alone mobiles from Nicholls and the murdered trio!  Absolute madness.  Why even waste time and money having a trial?! 

I'm sure the expert is highly competent in his area of expertise but he seems unable to see the wood for the trees in that his reports are surely all meaningless without having all the relevant call data for the murdered trio?!  Whether Whomes' mobile places him in Workhouse Lane, as the prosecution attempted to argue, or the Wheatsheaf pub, as per his alibi and defence expert when he made the 18.59 calls, it is surely meaningless if the call Tate received from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 places him not at Workhouse Lane or even in the vicinity but elsewhere!? 

Surely solicitors acting for the defence have a legal right to access all the phones? 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmjust/859/85907.htm

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 12:05:39 PM
It appears the solicitor acting for the defendants, Chris Bowen, qualified in 1995.  The trial started in Jan 1998.  Why would anyone think it a good idea to have someone so inexperienced heading up a high profile case such as 'The Rettendon murders'? 

Chris Bowen - Chris studied at Keele University and went on to Chester Law School. Originally from South Wales Chris worked in East Anglia, The Midlands and London before joining Alexander Johnson last year.

Chris has been a qualified solicitor since 1995 and has represented clients on many large cases including murder and importation cases. Chris has represented Mr. Michael Steele since 1998 when he was charged and later convicted of what became known as The Rettendon Murders in Essex in 1995. Chris continues to represent Mr. Steele on his current Appeal which it is hoped will be heard later this year. Chris has a wealth of experience of serious and, particularly, high profile cases.


http://www.internetpipelinesuk.com/portfolio/Alexander%20Johnson/html/the_team.htm
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 12:53:29 PM
It seems post murders Steele continued importing cannabis along with Nicholls, Whomes and others including Tate's brother Russell Tate:

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5539245.man-dealt-with-his-brothers-killer-court-told/

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5539248.court-told-of-500000-of-cannabis-smuggled-ashore-near-clacton-pier/

Years later Russell Tate was convicted for his part in a cocaine gang:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/05/cocaine-gang-sentenced-200-years

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 01:35:53 PM
I wonder if Steele ever involved himself with class A drugs?  If not why not:

- moral reasons justifying cannabis as a soft drug akin to alcohol

- unable to procure

- more risk with producers, wholesalers and increase risk in general eg purity

- stiffer penalties if caught
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 02:52:39 PM
Referring to the CoA doc which outlines the case against Steele/Whomes for the murders and importation of cannabis along with a firearms offence it seems to me the prosecution wanted to conceal Steele's ongoing relationship with Russell Tate post murders.  Maybe Russell Tate was happy dealing with Steele as he did not suspect him of murdering his brother and other gang members would not support Nicholls account.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

The trial of Steele/Whomes started 1st Sep '97 and ended 20th Jan '98.  It also included Peter Corry.  And yet a separate trial took place covering other members of the same gang, including Russell Tate, over the same offences. 



Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 03:04:02 PM
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5539245.man-dealt-with-his-brothers-killer-court-told/

It's unbelievable how corrupt and rotten the justice system is.  The prosecutor at Russel Tate's trial said:

Mr Munday said: "Steele, having killed Patrick Tate, was involved with Russell Tate as if nothing had happened."

Of course he could say this after Steele/Whomes were found guilty but he might have struggled to get away with it at Steele/Whomes trial AND get a conviction. 

Why was a separate trial ordered?   8(0(*

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 04:12:14 PM
Lol you couldn't make it up!  It appears Russell Tate tried to get away with his  involvement by telling the court his reason for getting involved was to get Steele nicked!  But the judge was not having any of it:

Judge Rucker said Tate had prepared an ingenious story as a way of explaining his involvement in the conspiracy but it did not simply bear the scrutiny of common sense and day-to-day experience of life - it was wholly untrue.  He said that listening to the evidence throughout the six-week trial, he did not believe for a moment Tate had ever suspected Steele of murdering his brother.

The article goes on...

Convicted murderer Michael Steele was said in court to have been a co-conspirator in bringing in cannabis from Belgium. He, along with three other men, has not yet faced trial for legal reasons.

I wonder what the legal reason were?   *%87

Did they ever face trial?  So in effect jurors did not get to hear the full story about the involvement of all these other people including Patrick Tate's brother, Russell Tate!

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Easy+money+of+drugs+costs+friends+30+months.-a060696603
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 04:24:25 PM
And in 2011 Russell Tate was jailed for 16 years for his part in supplying cocaine and money laundering:

https://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/8789229.rettendon-victims-brother-jailed-over-huge-drugs-conspiracy/

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 04, 2019, 04:36:23 PM
It appears the solicitor acting for the defendants, Chris Bowen, qualified in 1995.  The trial started in Jan 1998.  Why would anyone think it a good idea to have someone so inexperienced heading up a high profile case such as 'The Rettendon murders'? 

Chris Bowen - Chris studied at Keele University and went on to Chester Law School. Originally from South Wales Chris worked in East Anglia, The Midlands and London before joining Alexander Johnson last year.

Chris has been a qualified solicitor since 1995 and has represented clients on many large cases including murder and importation cases. Chris has represented Mr. Michael Steele since 1998 when he was charged and later convicted of what became known as The Rettendon Murders in Essex in 1995. Chris continues to represent Mr. Steele on his current Appeal which it is hoped will be heard later this year. Chris has a wealth of experience of serious and, particularly, high profile cases.


http://www.internetpipelinesuk.com/portfolio/Alexander%20Johnson/html/the_team.htm

Correction.  Above I said the trial started Jan '98 when in fact it started in Sept 97 and ended Jan '98.  So it seems the solicitor acting for the defendants had less than 3 years experience.   I would have expected to see a solicitor with a minimum of 10 years experience dealing with this sort of case.  Absolute madness imo.  No doubt anyone assisting had even less experience!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 05, 2019, 12:27:32 PM
The following is interesting.  It's written by an academic who attempts to understand the machinations of 'Tuckers Gang' by analyzing the various accounts written by Ellis, Leach, Mahoney and  journalist Tony Tucker and media reports:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257771184_Tuckers_firm_A_case_study_of_British_organised_crime

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 05, 2019, 12:47:37 PM
Does this case have the potential to be solved along the lines of Sam Hallam's case/conviction/acquittal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18102336

From Lady Justice Hallett:

Lady Justice Hallett, who delivered the court's judgement, said Mr Hallam's "inability or unwillingness" to say where he was at the time of the murder had "not exactly helped his case".

But she added: "Given the attachment of young people and the more mature to their mobile phones, we can't understand why someone, either from the investigating team or the defence team, did not think to examine the phones attributable to the appellant.

"Given our limited knowledge, we would have thought that, even a cursory check would have produced some interesting results.

"Further, we would have thought the appellant would have alerted the defence team that he had been taking photos on a new phone which would have helped establish his whereabouts."


This is what I'm just not getting in this case, why were all mobiles phones not examined and geographical movements plotted based on mobile phone calls?  The info uploaded by Chud from expert David Bristowe shows info was made available to the defence re the location of Nicholls/Whomes when they exchanged the 2 x 18.59 calls.  Also the location of Steele when he made the 2 calls shortly after 6pm.  But what about Tate's geographical location when he received the call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44?  And what any other calls made/received by the murdered trio around this time where did this place them, or rather their mobiles, when any such calls were made/received.   

Tucker received numerous voice mail messages on his mobile.  What happens when a mobile goes into voice mail?  Is the message held somewhere until the message is retrieved and it is then routed through the nearest cell/mast or is it routed through the nearest cell/mast at the time the message is left?   
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 05, 2019, 02:13:55 PM
Holly,

Thanks for all the subsequent information you have provided, you're obviously more mentally dexterous than me and I need time to process all this hence delays in my response :)

Regarding the last question, it's an interesting one. It is still unclear to me whether the mobile phones of Tate and Tucker were switched on after 19:00 that evening or whether they still had charge in the devices the following morning and were still actively in an "on" state. We know they didn't answer after that point (19:00) or make any outgoing calls. We know they were found both holding their phones but I cannot find any documentation relating to the service status of the phone at the time when they were discovered by the police.

From what I understand of older phone technology and modern for that matter, There are at least 2 scenarios for leaving messages which are 1. If the target phone is on, actively connected to a network but the recipient doesn't answer...... the call will be made, the mobile will connect to the recipients phone (leaving an audit through the network) and after a certain amount of rings will divert to voicemail automatically. The actual message being stored on the receiving mobiles provider storage server somewhere centrally. 2. If the phone is switched off, not active then the recipients network will know this and pass straight through to voicemail in the same way. The third option is when the mobile is active and connected but a manual override on the phone features sets all incoming calls to divert to voicemail.

I find this point interesting as it is similar to the lack of detail regarding other calls of importance you have mentioned previously. There seems to be no documented information as to what state the physical mobiles were in and whether they had been switched off sometime earlier. I'm sure mobiles either switching themselves off manually or failing due to lack power area alerted / flagged at the exchange as an event.

This of course does not answer any of the questions relating to the lack of available call data you mentioned previously.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 05, 2019, 04:45:11 PM
Lol you couldn't make it up!  It appears Russell Tate tried to get away with his  involvement by telling the court his reason for getting involved was to get Steele nicked!  But the judge was not having any of it:

Judge Rucker said Tate had prepared an ingenious story as a way of explaining his involvement in the conspiracy but it did not simply bear the scrutiny of common sense and day-to-day experience of life - it was wholly untrue.  He said that listening to the evidence throughout the six-week trial, he did not believe for a moment Tate had ever suspected Steele of murdering his brother.

The article goes on...

Convicted murderer Michael Steele was said in court to have been a co-conspirator in bringing in cannabis from Belgium. He, along with three other men, has not yet faced trial for legal reasons.

I wonder what the legal reason were?   *%87

Did they ever face trial?  So in effect jurors did not get to hear the full story about the involvement of all these other people including Patrick Tate's brother, Russell Tate!

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Easy+money+of+drugs+costs+friends+30+months.-a060696603

This may go some way to explain why their trial was deferred or at least explain the process.

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2000/70.html
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 11:57:05 AM
Holly,

Thanks for all the subsequent information you have provided, you're obviously more mentally dexterous than me and I need time to process all this hence delays in my response :)

Regarding the last question, it's an interesting one. It is still unclear to me whether the mobile phones of Tate and Tucker were switched on after 19:00 that evening or whether they still had charge in the devices the following morning and were still actively in an "on" state. We know they didn't answer after that point (19:00) or make any outgoing calls. We know they were found both holding their phones but I cannot find any documentation relating to the service status of the phone at the time when they were discovered by the police.

From what I understand of older phone technology and modern for that matter, There are at least 2 scenarios for leaving messages which are 1. If the target phone is on, actively connected to a network but the recipient doesn't answer...... the call will be made, the mobile will connect to the recipients phone (leaving an audit through the network) and after a certain amount of rings will divert to voicemail automatically. The actual message being stored on the receiving mobiles provider storage server somewhere centrally. 2. If the phone is switched off, not active then the recipients network will know this and pass straight through to voicemail in the same way. The third option is when the mobile is active and connected but a manual override on the phone features sets all incoming calls to divert to voicemail.

I find this point interesting as it is similar to the lack of detail regarding other calls of importance you have mentioned previously. There seems to be no documented information as to what state the physical mobiles were in and whether they had been switched off sometime earlier. I'm sure mobiles either switching themselves off manually or failing due to lack power area alerted / flagged at the exchange as an event.

This of course does not answer any of the questions relating to the lack of available call data you mentioned previously.

How can it be evidenced that none of the trio actively received/made calls after Tate's received call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44?  If  the answer is phone records from tel comm co's did the defence obtain first hand?  If not were checks made to determine completeness and authenticity? 

Someone has uploaded Tucker's voice mail containing 26 messages.  These appear authentic.  The first call from Tucker's girlfriend, Anna, appears to have been answered but no response.  No idea of the time but given it appears from further messages she was in the Basildon area and due to be at a restaurant in Romford with Tucker at 8pm I would guess the call was around 6pm - 7pm. 

Anna makes numerous voice mail messages, as do others, concerned they haven't heard from him.  This extends through to the following morning.  No doubt similar was happening with the mobile phones of Rolfe and Tate.  I have not heard soc officers say anything about mobile phones ringing.

From personal experience mobile batteries improve all the time with the older ones having a shorter life.  From time to time I've left mobiles in the car overnight and have found on particularly cold nights the battery has been dead despite having been fully charged.  I've then put the phone on charge and within a couple of minutes it is fully charged.  This explains:

https://www.livescience.com/61334-batteries-die-cold-weather.html

Given the night was particularly cold and the rear passenger window of the Range Rover smashed the batteries may well have died especially when the mobiles of Tate and Tucker were exposed in their hands.  If Rolfe had a mobile in a pocket it may have afforded the battery some protection from the elements.

Anyway whatever the state of the phone/battery voicemail messages were left and retrieved hence the 26 for Tucker but which cell/mast are these calls routed through?  The cell/mast based on the location of the mobile when the message is left or the location of the mobile when it is retrieved or both?  Does the state of the phone/battery/voicemail set up determine the answer? 

I have not seen any arguments from the prosecution about Tate's 18.44 call routed through the Hockley or Ingatestone cells/masts which I believe would be the case if he received the call where he was found?   In fact given the prosecution wanted to argue Whomes 18.59 calls placed him in Workhouse Lane this strikes me as a little odd!  I believe all this was in its infancy at the 1997/8 trial but if it could be shown to jurors Tate's 18.44 call came in on the same cell/mast that Whomes call went out on at 18.59 this would I'm sure go down a treat with jurors so why wasn't it used!?  Instead we have a lot of talk about Steele overhearing the conversation between Tate and Sarah Saunders whilst he was sat in the Range Rover.   Was there an assumption by all concerned Tate received the call where he was found or was evidence withheld because it dented the prosecution case?

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 12:25:11 PM
Tucker's mobile messages.  The first call from Anna at 4.45 in sounds to me like the call was answered but no one responded!?  She then calls back immediately and leaves a message.  If the call was answered which cell/mast was this call routed through?  Where does this feature on the tel schedules compiled by Essex police/info from tel comm providers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 01:31:40 PM
This may go some way to explain why their trial was deferred or at least explain the process.

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2000/70.html

I have read quickly but will need to read again.  My understanding is that Steele was involved in a total of 5 importations: Aug, Oct, Nov '95 and Apr, May 96.  He was charged with the first 3 which were heard at his trial ending Jan '98 and he was found guilty along with the murders.  This was also the case for his co-accused with regard to Whomes found guilty of the importation and murder charges and Corry and Nicholls found guilty of the importation charges. 

Come Apr and May '96 new faces were involved in the importations: Russell Tate, Sarah Darlaston, Tracey Roulstone, Ian Kerr, Paul Gwinnettno and Craig Androliakos.  They were charged and found guilty in a separate trial which ended Nov '98. 

What I'm not understanding is why not have a trial for all 5 importations?  If I had to guess I would say the reason for this is that it would be difficult to explain to jurors Steele's ongoing relationship with Russell Tate?  And/or was it something to do with the fact Nicholls corrupt relationship we are told started 1st Jan '98 with Bird.  Regardless imo jurors were hoodwinked in that they only had half the picture

It seems the due processes were not followed for the confiscation order therefore Steele's appeal was allowed.  Where does the figure 2,122 pounds come from?  Steele was importing large quantities of cannabis.  He must have made more than 2,122?   
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 01:51:05 PM
The following is interesting.  It's written by an academic who attempts to understand the machinations of 'Tuckers Gang' by analyzing the various accounts written by Ellis, Leach, Mahoney and  journalist Tony Tucker and media reports:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257771184_Tuckers_firm_A_case_study_of_British_organised_crime

The above outlines Tucker's businesses some of which were legitimate one being debt collection. 

Francis Theobald, co-owner of White House Farm, said she and her husband sub-let outbuildings.  One sub-let was to a Mr Jackson who run Billericay Bailiff Services.  So is it possible Mr Jackson called up the heavies?  I wonder whether investigators ever checked with Mr Jackson whether or not he knew any of the murdered trio and/or whether they ever visited his premises?

Another more tenuous link is that Francis Theobald said she run a farm shop selling hay amongst other things.  John Marshall was found dead in the back of his Range Rover covered in hay.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 01:55:49 PM
I have read quickly but will need to read again.  My understanding is that Steele was involved in a total of 5 importations: Aug, Oct, Nov '95 and Apr, May 96.  He was charged with the first 3 which were heard at his trial ending Jan '98 and he was found guilty along with the murders.  This was also the case for his co-accused with regard to Whomes found guilty of the importation and murder charges and Corry and Nicholls found guilty of the importation charges. 

Come Apr and May '96 new faces were involved in the importations: Russell Tate, Sarah Darlaston, Tracey Roulstone, Ian Kerr, Paul Gwinnettno and Craig Androliakos.  They were charged and found guilty in a separate trial which ended Nov '98. 

What I'm not understanding is why not have a trial for all 5 importations?  If I had to guess I would say the reason for this is that it would be difficult to explain to jurors Steele's ongoing relationship with Russell Tate?  And/or was it something to do with the fact Nicholls corrupt relationship we are told started 1st Jan '98 with Bird.  Regardless imo jurors were hoodwinked in that they only had half the picture

It seems the due processes were not followed for the confiscation order therefore Steele's appeal was allowed.  Where does the figure 2,122 pounds come from?  Steele was importing large quantities of cannabis.  He must have made more than 2,122?

Oh and just remembered Nicholls said he tried to distant himself from Steele/Whomes post murders when in reality his relationship with the pair had not changed.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 04:16:20 PM
Back to Tucker's 26 voice mail messages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs

The messages are in reverse order ie the first at the end of the recording and the most recent at the beginning.

9 messages from girlfriend Ms Anna Whitehead

@ approx 4.46 - it appears the phone is answered but no response

@ approx 4.25 - asks him to call her and gives a Basildon tel no

@ approx 4.20 - asks how he's getting on and tells him she's ready - they are due for a meal in Romford which is some 30 mins from Basildon

@ approx 4.00 - asks him to call her

(@ approx 3.40 someone calls asking Tucker to delay collection of his equipment.  He gives the time as 9 o'clock.  It is obvious this is 9pm based on other calls).

@ approx 3.15 she states she's back from stables and its quarter past eleven.  It is obvious based on other calls it is 11.15pm.

@ approx 3.00 she states she's round her mums and its now quarter to one 12.45am.

@ approx 2.35 she states she has heard news about 3 men found in a Range Rover. 

@ approx 2.24 she asks him to call her

@ approx 2.00 she asks him to call her

These calls do not tally with the phone schedules:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511362#msg511362

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511364#msg511364
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 04:29:54 PM
I'm not sure its really worth spending further time on this?  It seems obvious to me the case is based on corruption and organised crime at the highest levels along with an inexperienced defence (Chris Bowens) and a half-witted QC (David Leaderman) based on his current Linkedin a/c and cv on the website of Carmelite Chambers


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 06, 2019, 04:52:15 PM
I'm not sure its really worth spending further time on this?  It seems obvious to me the case is based on corruption and organised crime at the highest levels along with an inexperienced defence (Chris Bowens) and a half-witted QC (David Leaderman) based on his current Linkedin a/c and cv on the website of Carmelite Chambers
@)(++(*   you must be knackered.

No, dislexyc.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 06, 2019, 04:55:39 PM
Back to Tucker's 26 voice mail messages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs)

The messages are in reverse order ie the first at the end of the recording and the most recent at the beginning.

9 messages from girlfriend Ms Anna Whitehead

@ approx 4.46 - it appears the phone is answered but no response

@ approx 4.25 - asks him to call her and gives a Basildon tel no

@ approx 4.20 - asks how he's getting on and tells him she's ready - they are due for a meal in Romford which is some 30 mins from Basildon

@ approx 4.00 - asks him to call her

(@ approx 3.40 someone calls asking Tucker to delay collection of his equipment.  He gives the time as 9 o'clock.  It is obvious this is 9pm based on other calls).

@ approx 3.15 she states she's back from stables and its quarter past eleven.  It is obvious based on other calls it is 11.15pm.

@ approx 3.00 she states she's round her mums and its now quarter to one 12.45am.

@ approx 2.35 she states she has heard news about 3 men found in a Range Rover. 

@ approx 2.24 she asks him to call her

@ approx 2.00 she asks him to call her

These calls do not tally with the phone schedules:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511362#msg511362 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511362#msg511362)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511364#msg511364 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511364#msg511364)

Is the one in blue a phone call from Tucker to Anna Whitehead, rather than the other way round?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 11:07:52 PM
@)(++(*   you must be knackered.

No, dislexyc.

But he says things like ..."contract killings within the criminal fraternity".  He didn't need to say "within the criminal fraternity" because contract killings in the UK are illegal and therefore by definition only carried out by criminals.

http://www.carmelitechambers.co.uk/documents/cv/David_Lederman_CV.pdf

The above is nothing to do with dyslexia. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 06, 2019, 11:10:50 PM
Is the one in blue a phone call from Tucker to Anna Whitehead, rather than the other way round?

No I don't believe so as at the start it says there are 26 messages and the above is 1/26. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2019, 08:58:19 AM
No I don't believe so as at the start it says there are 26 messages and the above is 1/26.

It seems to me Anna dials the number and we're then hearing the phones ring between her phone and Tucker's mobile.  Someone or something effectively answers Tucker's phone but there's no response.  She is then mystified as to what has happened and says something like 'he's put the fcuking phone down'.  As Tucker's phone was effectively answered she is unable to leave a message.  She then calls back and Tucker's phone goes into  voice mail and she leaves the message about being at Joy's/on the drive and reminds him of the Basildon tel no.

All the other calls contain a single bleep enabling the caller to leave a message.

I wonder how Tucker's voice mail messages ended up in the public domain?  Did the police/experts examine the phones or just rely on data provided by the tel comm co's?  Surely it would be a disciplinary matter if police, or anyone connected to the case in a professional capacity, uploaded to the internet despite the fact it may have been before Data Protection Act.  If the phone was returned to Tucker's next of kin which was most probably his parents why would they upload?   
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2019, 12:04:24 PM
I wonder if one or more of the murdered trio used 1 or more mobile phones? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 07, 2019, 03:16:13 PM


I wonder how Tucker's voice mail messages ended up in the public domain?  Did the police/experts examine the phones or just rely on data provided by the tel comm co's?  Surely it would be a disciplinary matter if police, or anyone connected to the case in a professional capacity, uploaded to the internet despite the fact it may have been before Data Protection Act.  If the phone was returned to Tucker's next of kin which was most probably his parents why would they upload?

Most of the reference material including photos, case notes, call recordings etc were loaded up a long time ago by Bernard O'Mahoney a well known associate of the three victims and a figure in the Essex Boy's case and subsequent films and books. He had a website packed full of the stuff. Quite how he got access to this material initially I do not know.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 07, 2019, 03:22:35 PM
I wonder if one or more of the murdered trio used 1 or more mobile phones?

I believe Tate had another mobile which as apparently used at some time after 21:00 on the night of the 6th December 1995 to call a girlfriend of his (Clare / Claire). I believe this fact was used by Steele in an attempt to overturn the conviction at some point but it was thrown out. I don't know the full facts but believe it was ruled out because the phone wasn't with Tate on the night.. the exact details I'm unsure of.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2019, 10:38:34 PM
Most of the reference material including photos, case notes, call recordings etc were loaded up a long time ago by Bernard O'Mahoney a well known associate of the three victims and a figure in the Essex Boy's case and subsequent films and books. He had a website packed full of the stuff. Quite how he got access to this material initially I do not know.

Yes I've heard about this website but unfortunately it no longer exists.

Maybe it was agreed by all concerned ie Steele/Whomes and their respective legal teams that O'Mahoney would upload for discussion?  Similar happened with Jeremy Bamber and Mike Tesko. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 08, 2019, 11:03:52 AM
I believe Tate had another mobile which as apparently used at some time after 21:00 on the night of the 6th December 1995 to call a girlfriend of his (Clare / Claire). I believe this fact was used by Steele in an attempt to overturn the conviction at some point but it was thrown out. I don't know the full facts but believe it was ruled out because the phone wasn't with Tate on the night.. the exact details I'm unsure of.

According to Donna Jagger's WS 'Clare' was Tate's date for the meal in Romford table booked at 8pm.  I don't think there's any doubt a restaurant booking existed for 8pm @ Romford but this doesn't really tie in with other known facts/times:

- Rolfe's Range Rover last confirmed sighting at Lakeside CCTV @ 6PM

- Back to Donna Jagger's WS she states Rolfe dropped her off at Lakeside at 5.45pm ostensibly to buy something new to wear for the night out.  He asked her to be ready for 7pm but it is not clear if he was going to pick her up from Lakeside or their home in nearby Chafford Hundred which is only a short distance so walkable.   

- The murdered trio had been or were going to TGI Friday's at Lakeside.  This included Rolfe, Tate and Peter Cuthbert. 

- Rolfe had apparently been at his home with Donna Jagger and their young daughter (6/7 yoa) prior to the pair leaving for Lakeside.

- No mention of what happened to the daughter ie did she go to Lakeside?  Was she dropped off at babysitters or did a babysitter call?  I doubt they intended taking her to the meal at Romford.

- Although she states when Rolfe dropped her off at Lakeside he was then going to collect Tucker from his home (Fobbing) did she misunderstand and was Tucker still at TGI Friday's Lakeside either alone or with Tate and/or Peter Cuthbert and they were picked up from there?

- Assuming Rolfe picked up Tucker from Fobbing did they then go to Basildon to pick up Tate or was Tate at Tucker's? 

- Did the murdered trio then go to Rettendon or prior to this did they go to Halfway House and/or Hungry Horse to meet Steele as claimed by Nicholls? 

I will do some timelines later.  Whichever option they took meant they were running late in terms of getting back home to collect girlfriends and yet it does not appear any of the trio called their respective girlfriends.

- It seems Clare, Tate's date for the night, was a casual girlfriend.  Donna Jagger lived with Rolfe and it is clear from tel schedules Tucker's girlfriend, Anna Whitehead, had access to his property since she was calling from his landline.  Therefore I'm more inclined to think Donna Jagger and Anna Whitehead would know more about Rolfe/Tucker's whereabouts, what they were up, who they were meeting and if they used multiple mobile phones they are more likely to have had the numbers.  I think it unlikely Clare received a call from Tate at circa 9pm when it doesn't appear Donna or Anna received any calls.  In fact the tel schedules show tel contact between Donna and Anna which no doubt involved conversations about the whereabouts of Rolfe/Tucker and the fact they were unable to make contact with them when they were expecting to be picked up wined and dined! 

- Although Donna Jagger claims in a WS Rolfe was off to meet 'Mickey the pilot' I've not seen any such info from Anna Whitehead?  What did she have to say about Tucker's whereabouts?

- Donna Jagger gave a press conference a day or so after the murders.  She appealed for info.  Why did she not provide police with info re 'Mickey the pilot' at the time?  If she did why did she repeat it in her WS of 14th March?   

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508993#msg508993
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 08, 2019, 11:29:19 AM
According to Donna Jagger's WS 'Clare' was Tate's date for the meal in Romford table booked at 8pm.  I don't think there's any doubt a restaurant booking existed for 8pm @ Romford but this doesn't really tie in with other known facts/times:

- Rolfe's Range Rover last confirmed sighting at Lakeside CCTV @ 6PM

Glad you mentioned this point. As far as I'm aware, and I have only read it on this forum, and the source appears to be from the crimewatch program. It is an important point but I have watched that program and they only say the last sighting was around 18:00 when Rolfe dropped off his girlfriend at Lakeside. No mention of CCTV. Would like to know the source if anyone has it as it appears to be "Mandela Effect or Illusory truth".

- Back to Donna Jagger's WS she states Rolfe dropped her off at Lakeside at 5.45pm ostensibly to buy something new to wear for the night out.  He asked her to be ready for 7pm but it is not clear if he was going to pick her up from Lakeside or their home in nearby Chafford Hundred which is only a short distance so walkable.   

- The murdered trio had been or were going to TGI Friday's at Lakeside.  This included Rolfe, Tate and Peter Cuthbert. 

They visited TGI Fridays in the afternoon of the 06/12/95. This was verified by a waitress statement which includes some flirting by Tucker and a call made to some doormen colleagues in the presence of the waitress to find out which one of the waitress knew from being a clubber.

- Rolfe had apparently been at his home with Donna Jagger and their young daughter (6/7 yoa) prior to the pair leaving for Lakeside.

- No mention of what happened to the daughter ie did she go to Lakeside?  Was she dropped off at babysitters or did a babysitter call?  I doubt they intended taking her to the meal at Romford.

Yep, no word on baby sitting arrangements or whether the daughter was taken to Lakeside or left with anyone at home?

- Although she states when Rolfe dropped her off at Lakeside he was then going to collect Tucker from his home (Fobbing) did she misunderstand and was Tucker still at TGI Friday's Lakeside either alone or with Tate and/or Peter Cuthbert and they were picked up from there?

No, it was supposed to be pick up Tucker from his home in Fobbing then pickup Tate from Gordon Road.

- Assuming Rolfe picked up Tucker from Fobbing did they then go to Basildon to pick up Tate or was Tate at Tucker's? 

- Did the murdered trio then go to Rettendon or prior to this did they go to Halfway House and/or Hungry Horse to meet Steele as claimed by Nicholls? 

There was a reliable sighting of all three men in the Range Rover at 18:05 on 06/12/95 driving along Cranes Farm Road (West travelling). This was from an employee of a tyre fitting business located in Cranes Farm Close who knew the men personally.

I will do some timelines later.  Whichever option they took meant they were running late in terms of getting back home to collect girlfriends and yet it does not appear any of the trio called their respective girlfriends.

- It seems Clare, Tate's date for the night, was a casual girlfriend.  Donna Jagger lived with Rolfe and it is clear from tel schedules Tucker's girlfriend, Anna Whitehead, had access to his property since she was calling from his landline.  Therefore I'm more inclined to think Donna Jagger and Anna Whitehead would know more about Rolfe/Tucker's whereabouts, what they were up, who they were meeting and if they used multiple mobile phones they are more likely to have had the numbers.  I think it unlikely Clare received a call from Tate at circa 9pm when it doesn't appear Donna or Anna received any calls.  In fact the tel schedules show tel contact between Donna and Anna which no doubt involved conversations about the whereabouts of Rolfe/Tucker and the fact they were unable to make contact with them when they were expecting to be picked up wined and dined! 

- Although Donna Jagger claims in a WS Rolfe was off to meet 'Mickey the pilot' I've not seen any such info from Anna Whitehead?  What did she have to say about Tucker's whereabouts?

- Donna Jagger gave a press conference a day or so after the murders.  She appealed for info.  Why did she not provide police with info re 'Mickey the pilot' at the time?  If she did why did she repeat it in her WS of 14th March?   

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508993#msg508993
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 09, 2019, 11:32:00 AM
Yep you're right the crimewatch prog doesn't actually refer to any cctv just last sighted leaving Lakeside at 6pm.  I think it was wishful thinking on my behalf that some fixed reliable data point existed whereas in reality there's nothing!

From the first time of reading Donna Jagger's WS it didn't and doesn't make sense to me and I very much question whether it is her authentic account of how events played out:

- This is subjective but all the women I know, self included, would not want to get ready for a night out: shower, wash hair, style hair, make up and then go walkies around a shopping centre looking for something new to wear.  Given she was supposedly dropped off circa 6pm and had to be ready for 7pm she would not have time to find something new to wear, get home and then do all the showering etc. 

- The distance from Lakeside to Chafford Hundred is 2.8 miles.  The average human walks approx 1 mile per 15 mins so realistically would not have had time to find something to wear, walk home and be ready for 7pm.  Plus it was dark, cold and possibly icy, snowy. 

- In some parts of the WS it is deatailed eg wrapping Christmas presents and then vague in other parts eg was she expecting Rolfe to pick her up from Lakeside or did she get a cab home (that's assuming she even went to the shopping centre!)

- As I said nothing about what the intentions were with regards to the young daughter 6/7 yoa.  Clearly too young to stay home alone.  Did she go to the shopping centre?  Babysitter?  Or babysitter arrived at their home?

- Nothing in her WS about calling Rolfe on his mobile in an attempt to discover his whereabouts or his associates eg Tate, Tucker and others. 

- We know she had tel contact with Tucker's girlfriend on eve of 6th Dec and morning of 7th Dec from the tel schedules but no mention of this.

- Whatever anyone thought/thinks of Rolfe this was her man and father to their daughter.  She was clearly upset as evidenced by her press conference.  A vulnerable woman who may have been putty in the hands of certain police officers. Eg if officers put to her they knew 'Mickey the pilot was responsible but they lacked the evidence' she may well have gone along with it especially if officers used veiled threats eg 'we have evidence Rolfe was dealing drugs but if you can assist we can probably overlook any confiscation order re proceeds of crime.  Anna Whitehead might have been a different kettle of fish.

- It would seem pretty odd if Anna Whitehead was not interviewed.  What did she have to say?  Was she a witness at trial in any capacity?

- So they were at TGI Friday's in the afternoon and all left.  What evidence is there that Rolfe picked up Tucker and then Tate from their respective homes?

- An online video places Rolfe at a police station close to his home at circa 4.30pm.

- You mention the tyre employee and I noted in the tel schedules calls between Tate/Tucker and Basildon Tyre Service.  Why was it deemed appropriate to leave these calls in but omit many of the others we know were made from Tucker's voice mail?  This may be genuine and tyres sought to replace any damaged when Tate crashed Tucker's Porsche.  Fool should only have lent Porsche to the more careful and competent female drivers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnJOC_dDXzM   8(>((
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 09, 2019, 01:17:52 PM
That Youtube link, just freaked me out.. I was only watching that the other. Sabine is an amazing driver.. you should see her throw a transit van around that same track.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 09, 2019, 01:19:00 PM
02/01/96 - STATEMENT of ANDREW CHARLES REYNOLDS

NAME: ANDREW CHARLES REYNOLDS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 02121969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 005 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 020196
A C REYNOLDS (SIGNED)

I currently work as a mechanic at Basildon Tyre Services, Cranes Close, Basildon where I have worked for the last year. There are four other people who work at the garage they are Colin RUSSELL, the new manager, Steve THOMAS who is like the assistant manager and two tyre fitters Alan CREW and Rob who I can not remember his surname.

Part of our work involves carrying out repair work on motor vehicles. Since my school days I knew Craig ROLFE on a friendship basis only but not on a social level. After I started working at the garage I became aware of Craig ROLFE's friends whom he socialised with these were Tony TUCKER and PAT TATE.

I knew Tony before but only as a person who used to work on the doors at night clubs. Pat TATE I only met a few months ago when he came with Craig and Tony into the garage when I was working. From early 001195 Craig started to bring vehicles to the garage to be fixed.

The first vehicle was a Peugeot which over a period of a week or so Craig brought it in twice, first for the brakes and secondly for the engine which had blown. As a result of this Craig borrowed a blue 'J' registered Vauxhall Fronteira from the garage. Due to having the vehicle in, Craig always used to ring the garage to check up on it.

Around about 290000, 301195 Tony and Craig brought in a private plated Vitara motor vehicle coloured metallic blue and grey for new tyres. I had been awaiting this vehicle as Craig had been ringing us to ask us when we had the tyres ready.

As far as I am aware the Vitara belonged to Tony's girlfriend. They took the vehicle the same day, having waited for the tyres to be fitted, however on the following Monday, 041295 the Vitara was brought back to us as it had lost reverse. The following day 051295 Tony called the garage and asked to pick up the Vitara however the vehicle needed longer for repair so it was kept until the 061200.

On 061295 I was again working at the garage when about 1000 hours to 1100 hours Pat TATE arrived at the garage with a girl I knew only as Pat's girlfriend Liz. They arrived by car, Pat in his black E or F registered 190 Mercedes and Liz in a Polo motor vehicle black in colour on an E or F plate.

The Polo was left at the garage for repair and Pat then phoned someone who he called Tony and I took this to be Tony TUCKER. He asked him about the Vitara and arrangements were made that Pat would take the Vitara away and Liz drove the Mercedes away.

Some time that afternoon Steve told me that Pat had telephoned and from talking with Steve I understood that Pat was desperate to get the Polo back for his girlfriend. Later that day I received a call at the garage from Pat who asked about collecting the Polo and arrangements were made that if Pat had not turned up by 1800 hours when we were due to close then I would leave the Polo on the forecourt with the keys in the glovebox.

At 1800 hours on 061295 the garage closed and I left the Polo on the forecourt with the keys in as arranged with Pat. As I drove away from the garage in my white Astra van registration C385VAA, Steve was behind me in his E registered grey BMW 325 and in front up me was Alan in in blue Orion the registration I knew as G- ENO.

I drove onto Cranes Close and along Cranes Farm Road towards the roundabout junction with East Maine. Basildon. As I got to the roundabout, the time was only about 1805 hours, I saw a blue Range Rover which I recognised as one Craig, Tony and Pat use.

I knew it was them and their Range Rover as I had seen them with it on several occasions before. I could clearly see Craig was driving, Tony was in the front passenger seat and their was a stocky male between the seats at the back and I took this to be Pat TATE as this was the usual way they sat when I had seen them in the past.

They were travelling on the other side of Cranes Farm Road in the opposite direction to me, heading towards the garage and I thought they were going to collect the Polo. I recall the registration of the Range Rover as an 'F' plate. About 2100 hours to 2200 hours that evening I had cause to drive down Cranes Farm Close and past the garage.

I looked and saw the Polo had gone and I took it that Pat had collected it. I never saw Craig, Tony and Pat again. Some time in the afternoon of Thursday 071295 I was working at the garage when I heard that all three had been found dead in a Range Rover. This started as a result of calls being made to the garage about a report of a Range Rover being found with three dead people inside.

Believing it was Craig. Pat and Tony I telephoned Pat's girlfriend 'Liz' about 1400 hours to 1500 hours that same afternoon. I telephoned one of Pat's mobile phone numbers which was answered by a female who I took to be 'Liz'. I asked her about the killings and she said she didn't know anything.

On Tuesday 020195 police attended my home and asked me about telephone calls recorded as having been made to the garage. I can only state that these calls would all have been in relation to the vehicles Craig, Pat and Tony had either left with us or were making arrangements to drop them off.

The telephone number for the garage for people to call outside the company is 01268 - 520537. There is another number but this is for company use only. I only saw the three in the vehicle at 1805 hours on 060000 and I did not look to see if there was anyone else. I cannot recall what they were wearing.

A C REYNOLDS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME: 2015
DATE: 020196
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE: PC537 CHAPPLE
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 09, 2019, 01:30:41 PM
Chud thanks.  I'll read later.  Sadly have to do some housework now  8)><(

Meanwhile I just wanted to upload this while I have it marked.  I would like to identify on an ordnance survey map the exact location where the Range Rover was found.  Is this it here?

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.65536,0.55227,14/pin


Grid Ref TQ 79654 98869

Thanks to anyone who might know the answer.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 09, 2019, 02:11:49 PM
Holly,

51.642250, 0.558556

This is the exact location give or take a few feet. The lane has been resurfaced and widened since 1995 so it doesn't look that familiar from the original photos.

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin

Regards
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 09, 2019, 05:37:06 PM
From Google street-view.  Can't resize unfortunately.  Rettendon Hall bottom right.  New War Memorial for Operation Sweet Pea on land donated by the Theobalds (yellow square at the end of the widened crime scene farm track) - https://www.royal-naval-association.co.uk/news/rayleigh-branch-operation-sweet-pea/ (https://www.royal-naval-association.co.uk/news/rayleigh-branch-operation-sweet-pea/)
Red pointer probably slightly out, should be further down the track north easterly.

(https://previews.dropbox.com/p/thumb/AAXFgnltAihiEAKMJ-SFoFYmurW1tnrX2fgaEb2UjseclmS8CN3qCH-nS2-u6666lG9duiXnimS5dHei_ObyjTfbv0AC_MVJVi3pe3T6yezVwOPpKNWFrSdExB2RoR4dDcWaPLeQiOsHdzhWAzeAlz_j5DbYvmovUOHdI_0BpbWI56ZsOYCwxd6uvsxoVb38nGhQEV95RG24LP1mGtEAXHsr3PsM8SXZLLwxKNg1Nk4LNo5FFaT4JTTb3HhFaATw1lY/p.png?size_mode=5)
(https://previews.dropbox.com/p/thumb/AAVo9ATkBCdKmARKHfRWUcW_SoR10p2PGyu9eqg9rSqDnuKh2hcy1a6XwnOyeaLHgI5AUcTjgmiACdO5my2dDL0pomtnNJpT0T_6UrV_XlzUNj1M2lpIxQDreTQ2Dh8GugxFpkmyQs41mkjfuIuRg3PSHqo1W1VkQigX178B9mkvuHMcGutb_q13JB8eumgrFGYBVFmQujFIzUJmUiARq54wJBAjeG4EUgJk1DD60ix6QWjZ-b_os5iugsHWRf6dL-4/p.png?size_mode=5)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 09, 2019, 05:40:25 PM
Follow this YouTuber's walk from Main Road to crime scene...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v29hJuuj0xY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v29hJuuj0xY)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgeBQe0SPYE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgeBQe0SPYE)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2019, 09:14:11 AM
Holly,

51.642250, 0.558556

This is the exact location give or take a few feet. The lane has been resurfaced and widened since 1995 so it doesn't look that familiar from the original photos.

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin

Regards

I initially thought the above based on the descriptions of the Theobalds, owners of White House Farm, along with other bits of info.  However the CoA doc refers to the Range Rover being the far end of Workhouse Lane as do the narrated vids (I think) uploaded by Myster and yet the two places are some considerable distance apart and as far as I can't see there's no direct link between the two places? 

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CMain%20Rd,%20Rettendon%20Common,%20Chelmsford%20CM3%208DL,%20UK%7C%7C0.553652%7C51.642676%7CtoNode=0%7CWorkhouse%20Ln,%20Chelmsford%20CM3,%20UK%7C%7C0.594598%7C51.659120

From CoA

Based upon the evidence of Nicholls, it has always been the case for the prosecution that these calls were made by Whomes, immediately after the murders, as he and Steele summoned Nicholls to pick them up; if this be right, the call must have been made as he moved off down the lane from the Range Rover, which was parked at the far end of Workhouse Lane, just short of the gate.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2019, 09:30:30 AM
And it appears the engineer David Bristowe carried out his tests based on Workhouse Lane.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512240#msg512240

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 10, 2019, 09:54:12 AM
And it appears the engineer David Bristowe carried out his tests based on Workhouse Lane.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512240#msg512240 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512240#msg512240)
Might be because the actual farm track was also called Workhouse Lane, but too insignificant be be annotated as such on a map.

Ken Jiggins and Peter Theobald discovered the Range Rover, when out to feed their pheasants. Theobold owned the land and his White House Farm is located quite close to the unnamed track in the video.

This is your Workhouse Lane, quite unlike the actual crime scene, and nowhere near WHF...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Workhouse+Ln,+Chelmsford/@51.6583545,0.5932246,644m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8dd156990c79b:0x43901a764acde8af!8m2!3d51.6591199!4d0.5945979 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Workhouse+Ln,+Chelmsford/@51.6583545,0.5932246,644m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8dd156990c79b:0x43901a764acde8af!8m2!3d51.6591199!4d0.5945979)

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6586063,0.5928998,3a,60y,62.18h,87.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm3shhTnGzyhI7VDLV17fSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6586063,0.5928998,3a,60y,62.18h,87.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm3shhTnGzyhI7VDLV17fSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 10, 2019, 10:22:46 AM
I initially thought the above based on the descriptions of the Theobalds, owners of White House Farm, along with other bits of info.  However the CoA doc refers to the Range Rover being the far end of Workhouse Lane as do the narrated vids (I think) uploaded by Myster and yet the two places are some considerable distance apart and as far as I can't see there's no direct link between the two places? 

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CMain%20Rd,%20Rettendon%20Common,%20Chelmsford%20CM3%208DL,%20UK%7C%7C0.553652%7C51.642676%7CtoNode=0%7CWorkhouse%20Ln,%20Chelmsford%20CM3,%20UK%7C%7C0.594598%7C51.659120

From CoA

Based upon the evidence of Nicholls, it has always been the case for the prosecution that these calls were made by Whomes, immediately after the murders, as he and Steele summoned Nicholls to pick them up; if this be right, the call must have been made as he moved off down the lane from the Range Rover, which was parked at the far end of Workhouse Lane, just short of the gate.

This has been the subject of many debates and youtube videos but am 100% sure that is the location. Unfortunately I can't seem to work out how to post images on the forum but if you look at the site on google maps aerial terrain view you can clearly match this up against the aerial views of press photos. There's an oak tree in view on the offside of the vehicle which had shed it leaves but is clearly visible on the google maps. I know all trees look the same but you have to view it to decide for yourself.

I can only assume he conducted his tests in the correct place, I'll double check for coordinates but he apparently made a series of test calls walking back along from the murder location to the entrance where Nichols apparently waited for them to return.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 10, 2019, 11:49:35 AM
A 1996 Crimewatch reconstruction at the actual location before the farm track had been widened, with actors playing the parts of Theobald and Jiggins.  Note the metal gate which has a wider gap between the top and second horizontal bars than those lower down, exactly as it was in the original SOC photo below the link...

https://youtu.be/dOm4waNyvVA?t=115 (https://youtu.be/dOm4waNyvVA?t=115)

(https://previews.dropbox.com/p/thumb/AAXqyRHKSLnmmY_9PwLXP3EDHnPPIpPmr-OXwWuxsxlNHWiYdfgcc9zL4evLRXboQ8QtVWOKKzdID2YWaHLP3_lw31_Q8JUsB7brF9UOou503DXX3iqnvdha2Von0xnCN9e-I5SXn6T32lAl0yjL-jVY0nfXZzcfIeVFOgkmljM57E-fbImbdI5mNGdk7F_402uQ[Name removed]2bWYCGgGo43xzzbt9-6hH81BIYsOLMkzATDEs857-iirOJlvr_XugB_rHYH1Y/p.png?size_mode=5)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 10, 2019, 12:04:19 PM
Yep that's the actual place..
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2019, 10:14:57 PM
Might be because the actual farm track was also called Workhouse Lane, but too insignificant be be annotated as such on a map.

Ken Jiggins and Peter Theobald discovered the Range Rover, when out to feed their pheasants. Theobold owned the land and his White House Farm is located quite close to the unnamed track in the video.

This is your Workhouse Lane, quite unlike the actual crime scene, and nowhere near WHF...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Workhouse+Ln,+Chelmsford/@51.6583545,0.5932246,644m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8dd156990c79b:0x43901a764acde8af!8m2!3d51.6591199!4d0.5945979 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Workhouse+Ln,+Chelmsford/@51.6583545,0.5932246,644m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8dd156990c79b:0x43901a764acde8af!8m2!3d51.6591199!4d0.5945979)

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6586063,0.5928998,3a,60y,62.18h,87.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm3shhTnGzyhI7VDLV17fSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6586063,0.5928998,3a,60y,62.18h,87.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm3shhTnGzyhI7VDLV17fSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Yep that must be right.  Reasons why:

- CoA doc also refers to Meadow Lane and you can see how close this is to the point identified by Chud on ordnance survey map:

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CMain%20Rd,%20Rettendon%20Common,%20Chelmsford%20CM3%208DL,%20UK%7C%7C0.553652%7C51.642676%7CtoNode=0%7CMeadow%20Rd,%20Rettendon%20Common,%20Chelmsford%20CM3,%20UK%7C%7C0.560390%7C51.635951

- One of the vids featuring Det Sup Ivan Dibley at the soc shows a house on a hill to the right (of Range Rover facing forward) which correspond to contours and Rettendon House on ordnance survey map.

- Peter Theobald refers to a pond the other side of the gate which is also depicted on ordnance survey map.

Sorted  ?>)()<  8((()*/

I don't really agree with the description 'remote location'.

How did you know about this little known lane?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 11, 2019, 05:24:48 AM
Yep that must be right.  Reasons why:

- CoA doc also refers to Meadow Lane and you can see how close this is to the point identified by Chud on ordnance survey map:

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin (https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin)

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CMain%20Rd,%20Rettendon%20Common,%20Chelmsford%20CM3%208DL,%20UK%7C%7C0.553652%7C51.642676%7CtoNode=0%7CMeadow%20Rd,%20Rettendon%20Common,%20Chelmsford%20CM3,%20UK%7C%7C0.560390%7C51.635951 (http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CMain%20Rd,%20Rettendon%20Common,%20Chelmsford%20CM3%208DL,%20UK%7C%7C0.553652%7C51.642676%7CtoNode=0%7CMeadow%20Rd,%20Rettendon%20Common,%20Chelmsford%20CM3,%20UK%7C%7C0.560390%7C51.635951)

- One of the vids featuring Det Sup Ivan Dibley at the soc shows a house on a hill to the right (of Range Rover facing forward) which correspond to contours and Rettendon House on ordnance survey map.

- Peter Theobald refers to a pond the other side of the gate which is also depicted on ordnance survey map.

Sorted  ?>)()< 8((()*/

I don't really agree with the description 'remote location'.

How did you know about this little known lane?
Because men have better map reading and 3d spatial manipulation ability than women.   ?{)(**
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 11, 2019, 05:33:40 AM
On the other hand, women are better at getting their kit off like stockingless bluestocking Victoria Bateman.  8(8-))

https://twitter.com/vnbateman (https://twitter.com/vnbateman)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 11, 2019, 08:50:12 AM
Because men have better map reading and 3d spatial manipulation ability than women.   ?{)(**

Until it comes to reconciling spent casings with the locations of perp/victim  8(0(*
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 11, 2019, 09:42:44 AM
This has been the subject of many debates and youtube videos but am 100% sure that is the location. Unfortunately I can't seem to work out how to post images on the forum but if you look at the site on google maps aerial terrain view you can clearly match this up against the aerial views of press photos. There's an oak tree in view on the offside of the vehicle which had shed it leaves but is clearly visible on the google maps. I know all trees look the same but you have to view it to decide for yourself.

I can only assume he conducted his tests in the correct place, I'll double check for coordinates but he apparently made a series of test calls walking back along from the murder location to the entrance where Nichols apparently waited for them to return.

I don't think there's any doubt your coordinates are correct.  David Bristowe also referred to a hill interrupting the signal from the Hockley mast which can be evidenced from the contours on the ordinance survey map which lead away form the Workhouse Lane adjacent to White House Farm and across to Rettendon House with Hockley the other side.  Also Peter Theobald refers to fishing beyond the gate which again can be evidenced from the map. 

I wouldn't describe the soc as a 'remote'.  I see more evidence this location was chosen to drown out the sound of gunshot (being next to a shooting range) rather than a potential landing strip for a light aircraft.  Did anyone check out the viability of landing a plane in this location given the hilly nature of the ground?  Steele's MO was importing cannabis from Europe via RIB.  The trio knew the drugs market and would know plane drops of cocaine were not his market.   

There are also reasons why the trio may have been familiar with the location. Tucker had horses/stables.  Tate's former partner, Sarah Saunders, at one time rode horses along with Jackie Street, Steele's partner.  There are a number of liveries and equestrian centers in the area.  White House Farm sold hay/straw among other things.  Plus Tucker's legitimate businesses included debt collection and a bailiff by the name of Mr Jackson rented an out-building off the owners of White House Farm.  Did anyone check out whether or not Mr Jackson knew the trio?  In any event I don't see the location as remote and hitherto unknown to the trio where they would need an escort to locate.  It's an ideal place off a main road but out of view to ostensibly exchange drugs/money or carry out other such illegal activity.   

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 11, 2019, 10:09:04 AM
02/01/96 - STATEMENT of ANDREW CHARLES REYNOLDS

NAME: ANDREW CHARLES REYNOLDS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 02121969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 005 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 020196
A C REYNOLDS (SIGNED)

I currently work as a mechanic at Basildon Tyre Services, Cranes Close, Basildon where I have worked for the last year. There are four other people who work at the garage they are Colin RUSSELL, the new manager, Steve THOMAS who is like the assistant manager and two tyre fitters Alan CREW and Rob who I can not remember his surname.

Part of our work involves carrying out repair work on motor vehicles. Since my school days I knew Craig ROLFE on a friendship basis only but not on a social level. After I started working at the garage I became aware of Craig ROLFE's friends whom he socialised with these were Tony TUCKER and PAT TATE.

I knew Tony before but only as a person who used to work on the doors at night clubs. Pat TATE I only met a few months ago when he came with Craig and Tony into the garage when I was working. From early 001195 Craig started to bring vehicles to the garage to be fixed.

The first vehicle was a Peugeot which over a period of a week or so Craig brought it in twice, first for the brakes and secondly for the engine which had blown. As a result of this Craig borrowed a blue 'J' registered Vauxhall Fronteira from the garage. Due to having the vehicle in, Craig always used to ring the garage to check up on it.

Around about 290000, 301195 Tony and Craig brought in a private plated Vitara motor vehicle coloured metallic blue and grey for new tyres. I had been awaiting this vehicle as Craig had been ringing us to ask us when we had the tyres ready.

As far as I am aware the Vitara belonged to Tony's girlfriend. They took the vehicle the same day, having waited for the tyres to be fitted, however on the following Monday, 041295 the Vitara was brought back to us as it had lost reverse. The following day 051295 Tony called the garage and asked to pick up the Vitara however the vehicle needed longer for repair so it was kept until the 061200.

On 061295 I was again working at the garage when about 1000 hours to 1100 hours Pat TATE arrived at the garage with a girl I knew only as Pat's girlfriend Liz. They arrived by car, Pat in his black E or F registered 190 Mercedes and Liz in a Polo motor vehicle black in colour on an E or F plate.

The Polo was left at the garage for repair and Pat then phoned someone who he called Tony and I took this to be Tony TUCKER. He asked him about the Vitara and arrangements were made that Pat would take the Vitara away and Liz drove the Mercedes away.

Some time that afternoon Steve told me that Pat had telephoned and from talking with Steve I understood that Pat was desperate to get the Polo back for his girlfriend. Later that day I received a call at the garage from Pat who asked about collecting the Polo and arrangements were made that if Pat had not turned up by 1800 hours when we were due to close then I would leave the Polo on the forecourt with the keys in the glovebox.

At 1800 hours on 061295 the garage closed and I left the Polo on the forecourt with the keys in as arranged with Pat. As I drove away from the garage in my white Astra van registration C385VAA, Steve was behind me in his E registered grey BMW 325 and in front up me was Alan in in blue Orion the registration I knew as G- ENO.

I drove onto Cranes Close and along Cranes Farm Road towards the roundabout junction with East Maine. Basildon. As I got to the roundabout, the time was only about 1805 hours, I saw a blue Range Rover which I recognised as one Craig, Tony and Pat use.

I knew it was them and their Range Rover as I had seen them with it on several occasions before. I could clearly see Craig was driving, Tony was in the front passenger seat and their was a stocky male between the seats at the back and I took this to be Pat TATE as this was the usual way they sat when I had seen them in the past.

They were travelling on the other side of Cranes Farm Road in the opposite direction to me, heading towards the garage and I thought they were going to collect the Polo. I recall the registration of the Range Rover as an 'F' plate. About 2100 hours to 2200 hours that evening I had cause to drive down Cranes Farm Close and past the garage.

I looked and saw the Polo had gone and I took it that Pat had collected it. I never saw Craig, Tony and Pat again. Some time in the afternoon of Thursday 071295 I was working at the garage when I heard that all three had been found dead in a Range Rover. This started as a result of calls being made to the garage about a report of a Range Rover being found with three dead people inside.

Believing it was Craig. Pat and Tony I telephoned Pat's girlfriend 'Liz' about 1400 hours to 1500 hours that same afternoon. I telephoned one of Pat's mobile phone numbers which was answered by a female who I took to be 'Liz'. I asked her about the killings and she said she didn't know anything.

On Tuesday 020195 police attended my home and asked me about telephone calls recorded as having been made to the garage. I can only state that these calls would all have been in relation to the vehicles Craig, Pat and Tony had either left with us or were making arrangements to drop them off.

The telephone number for the garage for people to call outside the company is 01268 - 520537. There is another number but this is for company use only. I only saw the three in the vehicle at 1805 hours on 060000 and I did not look to see if there was anyone else. I cannot recall what they were wearing.

A C REYNOLDS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME: 2015
DATE: 020196
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE: PC537 CHAPPLE

This sighting/witness sound reliable.   Andrew Reynolds left his place of work at 1800 hours and some 5 mins into the journey he clocks the trio. 

What's interesting is that he refers to Tate's girlfriend as 'Liz'.  This I believe is Liz Fletcher who featured in one of the vids and was depicted as Tate's then girlfriend.  She is also referred to in Donna Jagger's WS as one of three females who accompanied Rolfe and Tate to collect the cash refund in respect of the dodgy batch of cannabis.  And yet on the night of the murders, according to Donna Jagger's WS, a 'Clare' was due to accompany Tate for the jolly up at the Romford restaurant.  This would explain Andrew Reynolds account of phoning Liz during 7th Dec and her being unaware of deaths.  Donna Jagger and Anna Whitehead exchanged phone conversations on night of 6th Dec and morning of 7th Dec but as far as I can see there's no such contact between the pair with a 'Clare'.  Anyone know anything about Clare?  If Clare was expecting to be picked up by Tate or meet him somewhere for the night out and he didn't show she would surely attempt to make contact with him and/or his associates in an attempt to discover his whereabouts?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 11, 2019, 11:48:35 AM
According to Donna Jagger's WS Rolfe dropped her off at Lakeside at 1745 hours.  The Crimewatch prog has Rolfe leaving Lakeside at 1800 hours.  Andrew Reynolds states he saw the trio in the Range Rover at 18.05 on Cranes Farm Road:

Lakeside @ 1745/1800 hours - Brynmount Lodge, Fobbing = 18 mins

Brynmount Lodge - Gordon Rd, Basildon = 7 mins

Gordon Rd - Cranes Farm Road = 7 mins  = 1817/1832 hours

So based on the WS's of DJ and AR its 12 mins out.  This doesn't take into account Tate/Tucker physically coming out of houses and getting into Range Rover.  Could all this be offset by unknown variables: actual time left Lakeside and Rolfe's style of driving?  I think AR's account is probably the most reliable.

It is then claimed the trio went over to Halfway House, Brentwood and then Hungry Horse/Travellers Joy, Rayleigh before ending up at Workhouse Lane?

Cranes Farm Road @ 1805 - Halfway House = 14 mins

Halfway House - Hungry Horse = 16 mins

Hungry Horse - White House Farm/Workhouse Lane = 9 mins  Arrival = 18.44/coincides with the time of Sarah Saunder's tel call

If Nicholls, Steele and Whomes were at Halfway House when Range Rover arrived they would need to leave Marks Tey at 17.37pm. 

At 17.12 Whomes used his mobile to call Steele's mobile where did this place the pair by way of cell sites?

Imo the only way forward for Steele/Whomes is to challenge the mobile phone evidence not in the way it has been done historically by just focusing on the Whomes/Nicholls calls at 18.59 but all the phone evidence in an attempt to challenge Nicholls testimony about the journey from Marks Tey to Brentwood/Rayleigh/Rettendon and also the phone boxes earlier in the day.  Also the potential to show Rolfe/Tate/Tucker either made or received mobile calls after 18.59.  If it can be shown 1 or more of the trio made or received a mobile call after 18.59 that's the prosecution case dead.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 11, 2019, 01:56:24 PM
Here's Liz Fletcher who appears to have been Tate's g/f at the time albeit a Clare was to accompany him on the jolly up in Romford.  Liz assisted with the cash refund for the dodgy cannabis.

At the end of the vid the narrator holds up part of a WS from a Gi Bradley Garwood brother of Donna Garwood who it seems was one of Tucker's girlfriends.  Anna was due to accompany Tucker on the jolly up in Romford and left numerous voice mail messages.  Her and Tucker didn't assist with the cash refund for the dodgy cannabis as it was his birthday and she had booked a hotel.  Donna Garwood assissted with the cash refund for the dodgy cannabis

Donna Garwood's name appears in the tel schedules as having a landline in her name which was used to make/receive calls from Tate/Tucker along with numerous 'alarm calls'.  This landline number was also the number quoted in a tel message from Anna on Tucker's mobile.  What was going on at this residence? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbU9u5E8RVc

Charming messages!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 12, 2019, 09:58:38 AM
I believe Tate had another mobile which as apparently used at some time after 21:00 on the night of the 6th December 1995 to call a girlfriend of his (Clare / Claire). I believe this fact was used by Steele in an attempt to overturn the conviction at some point but it was thrown out. I don't know the full facts but believe it was ruled out because the phone wasn't with Tate on the night.. the exact details I'm unsure of.

I would like to know more about 'Clare' who appears somewhat of a mystery figure?  Donna Jagger refers to "Clare" in her WS as Tate's date for the Romford jolly up.  O'Mahoney basically reiterates this in his books but unlike all the other individuals he does not make ref to her surname or provide any detail whatsoever about her which leads me to conclude he had no knowledge of her.  Incidentally he refers to Donna Jagger as Diane Evans?  Maybe he agreed with DJ he would refer to her as such as she didn't want her authentic name in his books?

Tate had parted from his long-time partner and mother of their child, Sarah Saunders, and was in effect a single guy albeit a docu/drama records Liz Fletcher from Southend as being his then girlfriend.  As we know Liz Fletcher assisted with bringing the cash refund in respect of the dodgy cannabis back into UK along with 2 other women: Donna Garwood and Gaynor Hayzer.  Liz was also at Basildon Tyres with Tate on the day of the murders supposedly in connection with repairs on her car.  Can we be sure the trio were not using these women, who all appear to have much younger than Tait/Tucker, as 'drug mules'?

Was Liz Fletcher's VW Polo left at the garage for repair or did she drop it off there with a boot load of drugs?  Dealers/users would then go to the garage and take away their share reducing the risk of anyone being caught with a significant quantity.

Andrew Reynolds mechanic at Basildon Tyres said he saw the trio in the Range Rover 5 minutes after the garage closed at this time the Polo was still at the garage.  He agreed with Tate to leave the Polo on the forecourt with the key in the glove compartment.   Andrew Reynolds said he then had cause to drive past the garage later in the evening and noticed the car gone.  Who drove the car away? 

From the PDF I uploaded re 'Tucker's Firm' it appears the firm also run a brothel. 

It seems Donna Garwood was around 16 yoa with her 'boyfriend' Tucker 38 yoa.  Tucker it seems was in a relationship with Anna Whitehead at the same time.  Donna Garwood's brother describes his sister as "idolising" Tucker who apparently spent a lot of money on Donna.  It also appears Tate/Tucker used a landline (property?) in Donna Garwood's name.  Was this some sort of 'safe house'/brothel?  This landline had a number of 'alarm' calls to Tate.  Were the alarm calls used to summon the heavy if things got out of hand?

Did Donna Jagger go to Lakeside to buy herself a new outfit or did she carry out some sort of drug deal?

Rolfe, Tate and Tucker were all known to the police and it would obviously have been high risk to carry around on their person/cars/homes drugs beyond a quantity for 'own use'.  What better way to distribute than by a network of trusty young women who they could control. 

Donna Jagger states in her WS she did not like Rolfe getting too involved and this is the reason she didn't go to Holland/Belgium to collect the cash and yet on the other hand she accompanied Rolfe on drug deals eg to North London to exchange drugs/money with a "coloured man" referred to as Gary. On another occasion her and Rolfe met with Steele at Tucker's stables to exchange drugs/money.  She also had drugs in the family home despite having a 6/7 yoa daughter.  Donna Jagger was a similar age to Rolfe 27 yoa I believe. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 12, 2019, 10:34:48 AM
From one of the narrated vids it also appears pre-murders Donna Jagger was due to give a WS to the police.  I've no idea what this was in connection with but it might have been the death of Kevin Whittaker:

The macabre death of known drug dealer Kevin Whittaker was widely
ascribed to Tucker and Rolfe. Tate was in hospital at the time of his
death having been shot by Ellis. Tucker and Rolfe were questioned by
police along with Rolfe's girlfriend Donna Jagger. Whittaker had
supplied 'The firm' with a large quantity of drugs and they had
decided they were big enough not to pay him for them.


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.true-crime/bST9DDLK5cI
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 12, 2019, 11:09:19 AM
What evidence exists re a plane drop of cocaine other than the WS/testimony of Donna Jagger and Nicholls?  Is it possible this is a scenario dreamt up by EP who subsequently put it to Nicholls and Donna Jagger both of whom it seems to me had much to gain by assisting EP.

Nicholls was into it up to his neck and the police may have made all sorts of direct or indirect threats to Donna Jagger re confiscating property in connection with proceeds of crime which may or may not have had some basis in law. 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 12, 2019, 11:46:20 AM
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/02870859/BRENTGATE-LIMITED/companies-house-data
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 12, 2019, 03:15:09 PM
It appears Tucker's 'girlfriend' Donna Garwood was born 1978 and Tate's 'girlfriend' Liz Fletcher 1976.  Tucker/Tate born 1957/58 respectively.

Liz Fletcher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbU9u5E8RVc

At the end of the above vid the narrator holds up a WS from Donna Garwood's brother re his concerns over her relationship with Tucker.

Tucker it seems was also in a relationship with Anna Whitehead who it appears was director of a company.  The address given was Tucker's home in Fobbing:

 https://www.companydirectorcheck.com/anna-whitehead-5

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 12, 2019, 03:46:03 PM
We could waste countless hours on all this but it seems to me the upshot is as follows:

I have no idea whether Steele/Whomes are responsible.  I'm inclined to think not for a variety of reasons.  In any event as far as I can see the only way forward for the pair with regard to an appeal is to have all the phone evidence reviewed.

In terms of who was responsible, if not Steele/Whomes, I stand by an earlier post re the death of John Marshall coming only hours after Nicholls revelations about the illegal activities of police officers.  Imo this was probably more than Bird and Stimpson and involved senior ranking police officers within Essex Police and possibly other police forces eg MET.  What better way to silence Nicholls forever and a day than make him a supergrass with a new id.

As we know John Marshall sold a car to Kenneth Noye with false papers.  Some 4/5 days after Marshall was found dead in his Range Rover, Noye lost the plot on Swanley roundabout and stabbed innocent passenger Stephen Cameron to death in broad daylight.  This imo was not an act of road rage and/or Noye losing face/his temper but fearful the net was closing in based on Nicholls' revelations.   

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/home-affairs/140602%20DC%20Craig%20Mackey%20annexes%20UPDATED.pdf

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 18, 2019, 11:13:34 AM
Most posters here seem to be open-minded about this case. 

Here's a post from another forum where it seems the poster has made up his mind.  The poster claims the case is easy to work out and has declared "case closed".  It seem to me the only thing "closed" is the poster's mind!

Anyway here's the post and here are the counter arguments:

This case is being discussed on red for some reason. Its easy to work out.

Patrick Tate and Tony Tucker were planning or at least threatning to kill Steele (Patricks girlfriend testified this at trial). So Steele engineered a trap to lure them into Rettondon under false pretences then kill them.

WRONG.  Tate made comments to his former partner/mother to his child, Sarah Saunders (SS), about sending Steele up North and he would not be coming back.  He did not elaborate on this.  There's no evidence Tucker ever made any direct or indirect threats about Steele.  SS told the court what I have just stated.  She also told the court when she called at 18.44 had Tate have been with Steele he would have said as much since SS was good friends with Steele and his long-term partner Jackie Street but he didn't instead he said he was with some people. You can read her police interview here where it seems the police ask very leading questions:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508994#msg508994

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508996#msg508996

There's no independent evidence Steele engineered a trap to lure them to Rettendon.


Patrick, Tony and Rolfe suddenly liked Steele as he had promised them riches. We know this because Craig Rolfe was so exited about it he couldn't keep his mouth shut and told his girlfriend.

Steele had a long criminal past and a previous conviction for importing cannabis (class B).  There's no evidence he ever dealt in class A/cocaine and/or was ever aggressive/violent.  Rolfe's long-term partner/mother to his child, Donna Jaggers (DJ) made a tearful appeal for info a day or so after the murders Dec '95.  If Rolfe told her he was off to meet 'Micky the pilot' to check out a site for a plane drop of cocaine then why did it take the police so long to arrest Steele?  Why did she only include this info in a WS some 3 months post murders?  If the police suspected Steele surely they would have him under surveillance and such like?  And yet he was able to get away with importing cannabis during Apr and May '96.  It was only following Nicholls arrest in May '96 when he was caught with a large quantity of cannabis in his car that Steele was subsequently arrested following Nicholls revelations.

Here is what Craig Rolfe's girlfriend told the police BEFORE Darren Nichols was even thought of by the police.

"I understood that STEELE had been asked by a London based drugs firm to import 30 kilos of Charlie (Cocaine) and I believe that he was going to bring it in by plane from Holland. He had told Pat TATE that he was going to be given fifty thousand pounds as an up front payment to take to Holland and he was going to bring the Charlie back in company with a member of the London firm.

"The idea was that Pat TATE and Tony TUCKER would rob the firm of the Charlie when it arrived over here. STEELE had stated that he wanted to share it between them and had told the firm that he was going to land near to Clacton. Craig told me that STEELE was planning to actually land in South Essex but I never knew exactly where this was likely to be. Craig, Tony and Pat had previously obtained a machine gun from a man called Mad Mick BOWMAN and the details of this are subject of a previous statement."

Since when is something factually correct on the basis of someone's say so?   Most people usually require corroborating evidence to believe something.

This is how Steele ended up on the police radar. Not Darren Nichols. Notice how Patricks GF fails to mention Wholmes and Nicholls. Thats because Steele would not mention their involment to Patrick because Wholmes part is to shoot them and Nicholls being the getaway driver. Once they focused on Steele, they then homed in on Nicholls as he worked for Steele's drug business and was the weakest link.

If Steele was on the police radar and not Nicholls then how come Steele wasn't caught red handed in his RIB offloading cannabis in Apr and May '96 and yet Nicholls was caught red handed with cannabis in his boot?

And so, Patrick Tate, Tony Tucker and Craig Rolfe drive to the middle of nowhere (along with the guy they had not so long ago threatened to kill) in the middle of the night to plan/rehurse the robbery of the aircraft. Did Steele tell them it was best to do this at night to familairise themselves for a night time assault on the aircraft or were Tate and Tucker just stupid and too exited about the money?  I will let Craig Rolfe's girlfriend answer that question

"We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Craig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft."

WRONG.  The soc was not in the middle of nowhere: 

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin

White House Farm sublet a building to a bailiff; Tucker had a debt collection business.  The farm shop sold hay and straw among other things; Tucker had horses.  So the location may have been known to the trio.  In any event it's hardly off the beaten track.  Where do criminals carry out illegal activities eg exchanging drugs/money?  It's just as likely the location was chosen due to its close proximity to a shooting range where the sound of gunshot would not be out of the ordinary rather than fanciful stories about plane drops of cocaine.

Friends have get togethers for drinks and meals it's called socialising.  There's no real evidence of a pre 'big deal' celebration.  The restaurant, Global Net Cafe, may have been chosen as it was an internet bar/restaurant which in 1995 was very novel.

No offence to a typical mid-20's Essex girl but how many would refer to a small plane as a "light aircraft"?   @)(++(*   Imo this is something Essex Police put to DJ who may well have had reason to ingratiate herself with the local constabulary.  She was due to be interviewed by police in connection with the murder of Kevin Whittaker.  I'm not suggesting she was involved but it seems the police suspected Rolfe and Tucker of involvement.  Furthermore her WS details drug deals where she accompanied Rolfe.  The police may have made threats re confiscating some or all her assets in connection with proceeds of crime.  DJ had a young daughter to support.

Most women do not get ready for a night out: shower, wash hair, style hair, make up and then go to a shopping centre for something new to wear.  She did not have time to carry out these things in reverse order.  It's possible Rolfe dropped her off at the Lakeside shopping centre not to buy an outfit but to carry out a drug deal with some females and that the police had knowledge of such and used this to their advantage.


When all is said and done and Nicholls pics up Wholmes and Steele after the shootings. Nicholls overhears two important details said between Wholmes and Steele in the car.

There's no evidence Nicholls picked up Steele and Whomes unless you believe Nicholls testimony which contains no info that he could not have acquired from others eg media, police and general gossip within local community.

One being that Steele got worried when Patricks girlfriend (Sarah) called him on his mobile when he was in the range rover with Patrick. We know this phone call happened and we know that Steele would be worried since Steele and Patrick both told Sarah they had it in for eachother. Thus if Patick had told Sarah that Steele was with him in the car, she could have raised his suspicions.

Covered above.  In short Tate said he was with some people and Sarah Saunders made clear to the police and court that had he been with Steele he would have said I'm with Mick who was a good friend of Sarah's along with his partner Jackie Street.  Police obtained mobile phone call evidence and could quite easily have imparted this info to Nicholls.  But lets not forget Sarah Saunders may well have told Steele and Jackie Street about the call who in turn may well have told Nicholls.

The other import thing Nicholls overhears from them is that Patrick "squealed like a baby". This also corroborated by the crime scene. Tony Tuckers body was looking straight ahead with his hands in his lap while Craig Rofle was also looking straight ahead, feet still on the pedal. They had been killed more or less instantly. Patrick on the other hand was found in the corner leaning in a fetal like position with his hands covering his face. Hence he reacted and "squealed like a baby" and who wouldnt in that situation? So Wholmes and Steele revealed things to Nicholls that only the killers would know. Nicholls testimony matches what Craig Rolfe told his GF also.

"Squealed like a baby"?  Which expert at trail said Tate "squealed like a baby"?  How would anyone know what if any noises the murdered trio made other than the person(s) responsible?  Nicholls saying x,y and z does not make it factually correct.  Nicholls was shown to be a thoroughly dishonest individual whether it be the crime he was convicted of ie counterfeiting or lying to his wife about working in the afternoons when in reality he was wiling away his time in the pub.  It takes a certain sort of individual to carry out pre-meditated murder, practically and psychologically.  There's zero evidence Steele/Whomes were capable of such. 

This is what happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv1z844XDgc&feature=youtu.be

Case closed.


Or poster's mind closed?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 18, 2019, 07:51:11 PM
Most posters here seem to be open-minded about this case. 

Here's a post from another forum where it seems the poster has made up his mind.  The poster claims the case is easy to work out and has declared "case closed".  It seem to me the only thing "closed" is the poster's mind!

Anyway here's the post and here are the counter arguments:

This case is being discussed on red for some reason. Its easy to work out.

Patrick Tate and Tony Tucker were planning or at least threatning to kill Steele (Patricks girlfriend testified this at trial). So Steele engineered a trap to lure them into Rettondon under false pretences then kill them.

WRONG.  Tate made comments to his former partner/mother to his child, Sarah Saunders (SS), about sending Steele up North and he would not be coming back.  He did not elaborate on this.  There's no evidence Tucker ever made any direct or indirect threats about Steele.  SS told the court what I have just stated.  She also told the court when she called at 18.44 had Tate have been with Steele he would have said as much since SS was good friends with Steele and his long-term partner Jackie Street but he didn't instead he said he was with some people. You can read her police interview here where it seems the police ask very leading questions:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508994#msg508994 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508994#msg508994)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508996#msg508996 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508996#msg508996)

There's no independent evidence Steele engineered a trap to lure them to Rettendon.


Patrick, Tony and Rolfe suddenly liked Steele as he had promised them riches. We know this because Craig Rolfe was so exited about it he couldn't keep his mouth shut and told his girlfriend.

Steele had a long criminal past and a previous conviction for importing cannabis (class B).  There's no evidence he ever dealt in class A/cocaine and/or was ever aggressive/violent.  Rolfe's long-term partner/mother to his child, Donna Jaggers (DJ) made a tearful appeal for info a day or so after the murders Dec '95.  If Rolfe told her he was off to meet 'Micky the pilot' to check out a site for a plane drop of cocaine then why did it take the police so long to arrest Steele?  Why did she only include this info in a WS some 3 months post murders?  If the police suspected Steele surely they would have him under surveillance and such like?  And yet he was able to get away with importing cannabis during Apr and May '96.  It was only following Nicholls arrest in May '96 when he was caught with a large quantity of cannabis in his car that Steele was subsequently arrested following Nicholls revelations.

Here is what Craig Rolfe's girlfriend told the police BEFORE Darren Nichols was even thought of by the police.

"I understood that STEELE had been asked by a London based drugs firm to import 30 kilos of Charlie (Cocaine) and I believe that he was going to bring it in by plane from Holland. He had told Pat TATE that he was going to be given fifty thousand pounds as an up front payment to take to Holland and he was going to bring the Charlie back in company with a member of the London firm.

"The idea was that Pat TATE and Tony TUCKER would rob the firm of the Charlie when it arrived over here. STEELE had stated that he wanted to share it between them and had told the firm that he was going to land near to Clacton. Craig told me that STEELE was planning to actually land in South Essex but I never knew exactly where this was likely to be. Craig, Tony and Pat had previously obtained a machine gun from a man called Mad Mick BOWMAN and the details of this are subject of a previous statement."

Since when is something factually correct on the basis of someone's say so?   Most people usually require corroborating evidence to believe something.

This is how Steele ended up on the police radar. Not Darren Nichols. Notice how Patricks GF fails to mention Wholmes and Nicholls. Thats because Steele would not mention their involment to Patrick because Wholmes part is to shoot them and Nicholls being the getaway driver. Once they focused on Steele, they then homed in on Nicholls as he worked for Steele's drug business and was the weakest link.

If Steele was on the police radar and not Nicholls then how come Steele wasn't caught red handed in his RIB offloading cannabis in Apr and May '96 and yet Nicholls was caught red handed with cannabis in his boot?

And so, Patrick Tate, Tony Tucker and Craig Rolfe drive to the middle of nowhere (along with the guy they had not so long ago threatened to kill) in the middle of the night to plan/rehurse the robbery of the aircraft. Did Steele tell them it was best to do this at night to familairise themselves for a night time assault on the aircraft or were Tate and Tucker just stupid and too exited about the money?  I will let Craig Rolfe's girlfriend answer that question

"We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Craig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft."

WRONG.  The soc was not in the middle of nowhere: 

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin (https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin)

White House Farm sublet a building to a bailiff; Tucker had a debt collection business.  The farm shop sold hay and straw among other things; Tucker had horses.  So the location may have been known to the trio.  In any event it's hardly off the beaten track.  Where do criminals carry out illegal activities eg exchanging drugs/money?  It's just as likely the location was chosen due to its close proximity to a shooting range where the sound of gunshot would not be out of the ordinary rather than fanciful stories about plane drops of cocaine.

Friends have get togethers for drinks and meals it's called socialising.  There's no real evidence of a pre 'big deal' celebration.  The restaurant, Global Net Cafe, may have been chosen as it was an internet bar/restaurant which in 1995 was very novel.

No offence to a typical mid-20's Essex girl but how many would refer to a small plane as a "light aircraft"?   @)(++(*   Imo this is something Essex Police put to DJ who may well have had reason to ingratiate herself with the local constabulary.  She was due to be interviewed by police in connection with the murder of Kevin Whittaker.  I'm not suggesting she was involved but it seems the police suspected Rolfe and Tucker of involvement.  Furthermore her WS details drug deals where she accompanied Rolfe.  The police may have made threats re confiscating some or all her assets in connection with proceeds of crime.  DJ had a young daughter to support.

Most women do not get ready for a night out: shower, wash hair, style hair, make up and then go to a shopping centre for something new to wear.  She did not have time to carry out these things in reverse order.  It's possible Rolfe dropped her off at the Lakeside shopping centre not to buy an outfit but to carry out a drug deal with some females and that the police had knowledge of such and used this to their advantage.


When all is said and done and Nicholls pics up Wholmes and Steele after the shootings. Nicholls overhears two important details said between Wholmes and Steele in the car.

There's no evidence Nicholls picked up Steele and Whomes unless you believe Nicholls testimony which contains no info that he could not have acquired from others eg media, police and general gossip within local community.

One being that Steele got worried when Patricks girlfriend (Sarah) called him on his mobile when he was in the range rover with Patrick. We know this phone call happened and we know that Steele would be worried since Steele and Patrick both told Sarah they had it in for eachother. Thus if Patick had told Sarah that Steele was with him in the car, she could have raised his suspicions.

Covered above.  In short Tate said he was with some people and Sarah Saunders made clear to the police and court that had he been with Steele he would have said I'm with Mick who was a good friend of Sarah's along with his partner Jackie Street.  Police obtained mobile phone call evidence and could quite easily have imparted this info to Nicholls.  But lets not forget Sarah Saunders may well have told Steele and Jackie Street about the call who in turn may well have told Nicholls.

The other import thing Nicholls overhears from them is that Patrick "squealed like a baby". This also corroborated by the crime scene. Tony Tuckers body was looking straight ahead with his hands in his lap while Craig Rofle was also looking straight ahead, feet still on the pedal. They had been killed more or less instantly. Patrick on the other hand was found in the corner leaning in a fetal like position with his hands covering his face. Hence he reacted and "squealed like a baby" and who wouldnt in that situation? So Wholmes and Steele revealed things to Nicholls that only the killers would know. Nicholls testimony matches what Craig Rolfe told his GF also.

"Squealed like a baby"?  Which expert at trail said Tate "squealed like a baby"?  How would anyone know what if any noises the murdered trio made other than the person(s) responsible?  Nicholls saying x,y and z does not make it factually correct.  Nicholls was shown to be a thoroughly dishonest individual whether it be the crime he was convicted of ie counterfeiting or lying to his wife about working in the afternoons when in reality he was wiling away his time in the pub.  It takes a certain sort of individual to carry out pre-meditated murder, practically and psychologically.  There's zero evidence Steele/Whomes were capable of such. 

This is what happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv1z844XDgc&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv1z844XDgc&feature=youtu.be)

Case closed.


Or poster's mind closed?
Where does the soiled genitalia paraphernalia fit into this perfect solution?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 18, 2019, 07:54:39 PM
And was Tate really this arrogant and repulsive?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=derdTVk6Z2w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=derdTVk6Z2w)

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 19, 2019, 10:30:24 PM
And was Tate really this arrogant and repulsive?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=derdTVk6Z2w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=derdTVk6Z2w)

This isn't one of your more considered posts.  I think you're being a touch judgmental and unfair. 

I appreciate his plain talking and the fact he's in touch with his primal side which he's not afraid to reveal  8)--))
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 19, 2019, 10:46:31 PM
His former partner, Sarah Saunders, looks dignified at court.

https://www.rexfeatures.com/set/283616

She looks a bit like Cameron Diaz.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 20, 2019, 08:01:38 AM
Holly,

51.642250, 0.558556

This is the exact location give or take a few feet. The lane has been resurfaced and widened since 1995 so it doesn't look that familiar from the original photos.

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.64225,0.55855,16/pin

Regards

Chud

When I enlarge the above to max it shows broken and blocked lines along tracks/footpaths do you know what these denote?  Eg at the bottom of Workhouse Lane, near to where the Range Rover was found, it shows a broken horizontal line (2 x little pieces) and then if you go over the broken line and turn left it shows a blocked line (1 x piece)?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 20, 2019, 08:26:05 AM
Solid lines = Gates or former gates.  8((()*/

Broken lines = footpaths.   8((()*/ 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 20, 2019, 08:29:40 AM
Holly,

I think they denote pathways (the broken lines) and gates as Myster has pointed out.. Not sure whether the tracks / pathways are public right of way / official in some way
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 20, 2019, 08:36:09 AM
Holly,

I think they denote pathways (the broken lines) and gates as Myster has pointed out.. Not sure whether the tracks / pathways are public right of way / official in some way

Public permissive footpath and bridleway to be more specific.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 20, 2019, 08:36:54 AM
Chud

When I enlarge the above to max it shows broken and blocked lines along tracks/footpaths do you know what these denote?  Eg at the bottom of Workhouse Lane, near to where the Range Rover was found, it shows a broken horizontal line (2 x little pieces) and then if you go over the broken line and turn left it shows a blocked line (1 x piece)?
Holly,

I think they denote pathways (the broken lines) and gates as Myster has pointed out.. Not sure whether the tracks / pathways are public right of way / official in some way

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/docs/legends/50k-raster-legend.pdf (https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/docs/legends/50k-raster-legend.pdf)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 20, 2019, 09:18:07 AM
Solid lines = Gates or former gates.  8((()*/

Broken lines = footpaths.   8((()*/

That's what I thought but I'm not really sure I follow the section at the end of Workhouse Lane (Range Rover end) where the tracks form a crossroads.  Two sections are left open, one has two broken lines across and the other a solid line across.  What do the two sections that are left open represent? 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 20, 2019, 09:23:34 AM
Holly,

I think they denote pathways (the broken lines) and gates as Myster has pointed out.. Not sure whether the tracks / pathways are public right of way / official in some way


There appear to be 3 gates or former gates in the area we are looking at.  Was the Range Rover def found in the location you have highlighted with the red marker ie just in front of the gate furthest from the road?   
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 20, 2019, 09:35:01 AM
[
That's what I thought but I'm not really sure I follow the section at the end of Workhouse Lane (Range Rover end) where the tracks form a crossroads.  Two sections are left open, one has two broken lines across and the other a solid line across.  What do the two sections that are left open represent? 

Probably just a double gate which used to be there and has since been removed.  All former gates in that area are absent in this overhead view...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Workhouse+Ln,+Chelmsford/@51.6418596,0.5578504,167m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8dd156990c79b:0x43901a764acde8af!8m2!3d51.6591199!4d0.5945979 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Workhouse+Ln,+Chelmsford/@51.6418596,0.5578504,167m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8dd156990c79b:0x43901a764acde8af!8m2!3d51.6591199!4d0.5945979)

... apart from these two gates (black lines) where that YouTuber started his walk...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Workhouse+Ln,+Chelmsford/@51.6408606,0.5568064,168m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8dd156990c79b:0x43901a764acde8af!8m2!3d51.6591199!4d0.5945979 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Workhouse+Ln,+Chelmsford/@51.6408606,0.5568064,168m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8dd156990c79b:0x43901a764acde8af!8m2!3d51.6591199!4d0.5945979)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 20, 2019, 10:06:46 AM


There appear to be 3 gates or former gates in the area we are looking at.  Was the Range Rover def found in the location you have highlighted with the red marker ie just in front of the gate furthest from the road?

The location is 100% where the Range Rover was found (the red marker give or take a few feet)..
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 20, 2019, 11:28:46 AM
Ok thanks. 

And where exactly is the skeet?

http://highhouseskeet.com/


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 20, 2019, 11:48:13 AM
Ok thanks. 

And where exactly is the skeet?

http://highhouseskeet.com/

If you go on their website, scroll down to the map and change map from terrain to satellite, then zoom in and you'll see the shooting area which is directly behind the Whitehouse Farm building sandwiched between the small lake.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 20, 2019, 11:58:40 AM
And we can see Le Benaix Bar and Brasserie, formerly the Wheatsheaf pub, is very close to the soc.  The Wheatsheaf pub being the site Wholmes claims he was at to take away a broken down vehicle for Nicholls.  This imo does not sound plausible and is too much of a coincidence to ring true.  More likely a drug deal (cannabis) had taken place at soc, Wheatsheaf pub or somewhere close by and trio were waiting to complete a further drug deal with a.n.others. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6470632,0.5460384,15z
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 20, 2019, 12:03:21 PM
If you go on their website, scroll down to the map and change map from terrain to satellite, then zoom in and you'll see the shooting area which is directly behind the Whitehouse Farm building sandwiched between the small lake.

I would like to view it on the ordnance survey map.  Did the shoot def exist at time of murders and in the exact same location?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 20, 2019, 12:17:54 PM
If you go on their website, scroll down to the map and change map from terrain to satellite, then zoom in and you'll see the shooting area which is directly behind the Whitehouse Farm building sandwiched between the small lake.
You can actually see Ginny Greenteeth living in the pond!   The satellite version in 3d is better than Google maps and gives an excellent view of the actual murder location too, especially when zooming in, full screen... even the steel gate at the start of the walk is visible... https://youtu.be/v29hJuuj0xY?t=34 (https://youtu.be/v29hJuuj0xY?t=34)

(https://i.imgur.com/jWYBypE.png)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 21, 2019, 12:30:21 PM
You can actually see Ginny Greenteeth living in the pond!   The satellite version in 3d is better than Google maps and gives an excellent view of the actual murder location too, especially when zooming in, full screen... even the steel gate at the start of the walk is visible... https://youtu.be/v29hJuuj0xY?t=34 (https://youtu.be/v29hJuuj0xY?t=34)

(https://i.imgur.com/jWYBypE.png)

Anyway the soc is clearly not back of beyond and the whole notion of the trio lured there ostensibly to recce a potential landing strip for a light aircraft to offload cocaine is imo a theory EP wanted to advance.  It might be the correct theory but the location of the soc could have many other explanations too.

As I've said previously used car salesman, John Marshall, who was apparently an associate/friend of Tate's was found murdered only hours after Nicholls' revelations about corrupt police officers.  Marshall also sold Kenneth Noye a used car with false papers.  Marshall disappeared 15th May along with a sports holdall containing all his business papers.  It is thought he was murdered 15th/16th May.   A few days later Noye lost the plot and innocent car passenger murdered Stephen Cameron in an incident deemed by the authorities to be 'road rage'.  Was it road rage or did he feel under threat of his life and/or the net was closing in based on Nicholls' revelations?   Marshall's body was found in the back of his Range Rover covered in hay at 3.30 in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Y5T2UI4gA

Owner of White House Farm, Mrs Theobald, said the farm shop sold hay and straw @ 6.45 in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lwxl30vfKM

She also talks about a bailiff sub-letting an out building and it is known Tucker run a debt collection business. 

Could there by any connection here or am I grasping at straw!? 

Tucker also had horses/stables (hay/straw) and there are a number of equestrian centers and liveries in the Rettendon area.  In fact one currently exists next to what was the Wheatsheaf pub.

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 21, 2019, 01:53:15 PM
What connections/similarities exist between the murders at Rettendon and that of John Marshall:

- Marshall and Tate were friends/business associates
- All from same area of SE Essex
- Marshall was a used car dealer as was Tate
- It is said Marshall was a drug dealer but the evidence here seems lacking
- It is said Marshall looked after Tate's drug money but the evidence here again seems lacking
- There appears to be more evidence that Marshall sold Noye a car with false papers. 
- There appears to be some evidence of a relationship between Tate and Noye in that they met in Swaleside prison with the pair apparently keeping in touch post prison with Noye putting up some money for Tate to finance a drug deal.
- Marshall disappeared/was murdered only hours after Nicholls revelations about corrupt police officers. 
- Marshall sustained 2 gsw's as did the murdered trio (will have to try and find out what type of firearm was used).
- Marshall was found dead in his Range Rover as were the murdered trio
- Marshall was expected elsewhere and just didn't show with his mobile going into voice mail as was the case with the murdered trio 
- Marshall had 5k cash on his person and was wearing an expensive watch both of which were found within the Range Rover/on his person but a sports holdall containing all his business docs which he took with him was taken.  - The murdered trio had some 1.1k cash between them.  This to my mind suggests the perps were not bothered about cash but were under instructions to kill to silence
- The police believe 2 people were involved in Marshalls murder - same for murdered trio.
- Marshall was found in the back of his Range Rover covered in straw.  The farm shop very close to where the murdered trio were murdered sold straw.  Marshall was murdered mid-May so not the time of year to identify a remote location and nick some hay/straw from a field.  If you wanted hay/straw you would need to have a ready supply probably from keeping animals or know someone who had a ready supply or purchase some from a farm shop or such like. 
- Based on the reconstruction of Marshall's murder it appears from his size he was a body builder as were the murdered trio.
- Marshall was last seen alive at Pitsea in Essex.  He was then due in Kent before heading back to the Pitsea area.  The Range Rover with his body was found in Kent.  Was the Range Rover/body moved to Kent in attempt to remove any connection from the Rettendon murders along with the case being dealt with by Kent police as opposed to Essex? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 21, 2019, 03:46:02 PM
What connections/similarities exist between the murders at Rettendon and that of John Marshall:


- Marshall was last seen alive at Pitsea in Essex.  He was then due in Kent before heading back to the Pitsea area.  The Range Rover with his body was found in Kent.  Was the Range Rover/body moved to Kent in attempt to remove any connection from the Rettendon murders along with the case being dealt with by Kent police as opposed to Essex?

Wasn't the Investigating officer Michael Gamble of the Essex Police which was a bit unusual..
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 21, 2019, 04:04:23 PM
Mobile phone expert David Bristowe told the court the following:

- The calls Steele made at just gone 6pm were consistent with him being in the area of Bulphan as per his alibi but it is unlikely he was at the Halfway house as the police contended.

- The calls Whomes made at 18.59 were consistent with him being at the Wheatsheaf pub as per his alibi but it is unlikely he was in Workhouse Lane as the police contended.

The calls Nicholls received at 18.59 were inconsistent with him being in Meadow Road.  Apparently these calls came through the Basildon mast so I assume he was over in that area. 

None of the above work or live anywhere near any of the areas above.  Imo the most likely reason for their whereabouts at these times was to carry out some drug related activity but I'm less sure about their involvement in the murders.

David Bristowe's report does not contain any info about any of the other calls made on day/eve of murders or mobile calls received/made by the murdered trio.  And importantly the call Tate received at 18.44 which according to the police placed him at or very close to the soc.  This strikes me as extremely odd. Was the expert aware of what the police were asserting about the 18.44 call to Tate which the police claim was overheard by Steele and factored into Nicholls' testimony? 

2 x posts here re the above experts phone evidence:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512240#msg512240

However if we move on to the police interviewing Sarah Saunders they mislead her about the 18.44 call which they have no evidence for or if they do it appears to have been withheld:

DC NORTON
Then I would urge you that that this is the time and the place to speak your mind and tell us why. The other bit of particular interest from Darren NICHOLLS' evidence is that he will say when Michael STEELE returned to the car having shot Pat, he said to NICHOLLS words to the effect of you can't believe what that silly cow's Sarah's just done, she's phoned Pat on the mobile on the way here. You phoned Pat TATE at 6.44/45 pm on the 6th December, is that correct.

SAUNDERS
Yes.

DC NORTON
We believe at that time Michael STEELE was in company with Patrick TATE, and they were driving towards Rettendon and that at approximately 7 o'clock Craig, Pat and Tony were shot dead by Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES (pause) you unfortunately Sarah, phoned Pat (pause) during the last moments of his life (pause). We will show that mobile phones, I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite, and we will show that the phones that evening of Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES were firstly in the area of Brentwood, in the area of Childerditch where they met Pat, Tony and Darren, Pat, Tony and Craig at the Half Way House, they then drove to the Hungry Horse at Rayleigh where Mickey STEELE left his car and got in the back of the car with Pat and that when they left there on the way to Rettendon is when you phoned him (pause). Michael STEELE' s phone was showing as being in the area at the right time, Darren NICHOLLS says that Mickey STEELE was with Pat, Tony and Craig, the beacons show the phones being in the relevant area at the time (pause). Donna JAGGERS will give evidence that they were going to meet Mickey STEELE that night (pause) and I believe that in, if you're to believe, I think at the back of your mind there's a nagging doubt that Michael STEELE killed Pat, Tony and Craig, was there at the time when they were shot dead (pause). Are you alright.


Just before the above the police even suggest she may have been party to the murders.  In any event what's important is that as far as I can see there's no expert evidence about the 18.44 call and yet the police have been able to weave it into their theory. 

Here are Sarah Saunders police interviews:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508994#msg508994

Imo its all really poor quality policing and investigative work.  The police imo are playing off lay witnesses who either have some reason to want to ingratiate themselves with the police eg Nicholls or they are somewhat vulnerable eg Donna Jaggers and Sarah Saunders who have lost the father of their  very young children and may have received thinly veiled threats from the police.  Eg with SS above about being a party to the murders and in the case of Donna Jaggers may have been threatened with having all or some of her assets confiscated under proceeds of crime act ie Rolfe gained financially from selling drugs and she accompanied him on some deals.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 21, 2019, 04:06:05 PM
Wasn't the Investigating officer Michael Gamble of the Essex Police which was a bit unusual..

Oh yes its coming back to me now.  I think I do recall hearing/reading something about this now.  I guess there's some overlap in that he lived in Essex and was last seen alive in Essex but his body was found in Kent.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 21, 2019, 04:17:59 PM
Why is this gangland killing so infamous?  Is it the fact that it involved 3 murders ?  That they were caught unaware or what? 

How frequently do gangland killings occur?  How are they carried out, where and why?

If we can look back on past killings it might produce some clues if we can show the Rettendon murders deviate from what normally occurs. 

The only gangland killings that spring to mind are the recent ones here and old 'Goldfinger'.  All of whom were shot at or near their homes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46349187

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/john-goldfinger-palmers-widow-chance-finding-lord-lucan-catching/

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 21, 2019, 05:26:05 PM
Why is this gangland killing so infamous?  Is it the fact that it involved 3 murders ?  That they were caught unaware or what? 

How frequently do gangland killings occur?  How are they carried out, where and why?

If we can look back on past killings it might produce some clues if we can show the Rettendon murders deviate from what normally occurs. 

The only gangland killings that spring to mind are the recent ones here and old 'Goldfinger'.  All of whom were shot at or near their homes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46349187 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46349187)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/john-goldfinger-palmers-widow-chance-finding-lord-lucan-catching/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/john-goldfinger-palmers-widow-chance-finding-lord-lucan-catching/)
We don't exist ooop North!... what about the recent killing of Salford's Paul Massey and John Kinsella by the Iceman, now sentenced to a whole life term like fellow Mancunian Stephen Seddon ?  Trust him to rear his ugly mug again!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/murder-paul-massey-how-mr-15641732 (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/murder-paul-massey-how-mr-15641732)

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fellows-paul-massey-jail-murder-15691057 (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fellows-paul-massey-jail-murder-15691057)

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/paul-massey-mr-big-salford-15691678 (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/paul-massey-mr-big-salford-15691678)

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 22, 2019, 09:12:24 AM
Why is this gangland killing so infamous?  Is it the fact that it involved 3 murders ?  That they were caught unaware or what? 

How frequently do gangland killings occur?  How are they carried out, where and why?

If we can look back on past killings it might produce some clues if we can show the Rettendon murders deviate from what normally occurs. 

The only gangland killings that spring to mind are the recent ones here and old 'Goldfinger'.  All of whom were shot at or near their homes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46349187

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/john-goldfinger-palmers-widow-chance-finding-lord-lucan-catching/

Good question, I ask myself that question sometimes. Why am I interested?  I think the fact that it started as a bit of a mystery helped it go that way.. perfect story.. 3 villains down a dark, cold and snowy lane blasted whilst sitting in a Range Rover ... the link to the Leah Betts story which was already front page news... The fact that these guys had a colourful background and not like some of the other villains  (in the shadows somewhat).  Then the subsequent supergrass story and the gruesome crime scene photos being available.. I think it's just a mixture of things and the films... I think as time goes by there appears to be more people talking about it than the early years and there's still questions to be asked to this date..
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 22, 2019, 10:29:40 AM

However if we move on to the police interviewing Sarah Saunders they mislead her about the 18.44 call which they have no evidence for or if they do it appears to have been withheld:

DC NORTON
Then I would urge you that that this is the time and the place to speak your mind and tell us why. The other bit of particular interest from Darren NICHOLLS' evidence is that he will say when Michael STEELE returned to the car having shot Pat, he said to NICHOLLS words to the effect of you can't believe what that silly cow's Sarah's just done, she's phoned Pat on the mobile on the way here. You phoned Pat TATE at 6.44/45 pm on the 6th December, is that correct.

SAUNDERS
Yes.

DC NORTON
We believe at that time Michael STEELE was in company with Patrick TATE, and they were driving towards Rettendon and that at approximately 7 o'clock Craig, Pat and Tony were shot dead by Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES (pause) you unfortunately Sarah, phoned Pat (pause) during the last moments of his life (pause). We will show that mobile phones, I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite, and we will show that the phones that evening of Michael STEELE and Jack WHOMES were firstly in the area of Brentwood, in the area of Childerditch where they met Pat, Tony and Darren, Pat, Tony and Craig at the Half Way House, they then drove to the Hungry Horse at Rayleigh where Mickey STEELE left his car and got in the back of the car with Pat and that when they left there on the way to Rettendon is when you phoned him (pause). Michael STEELE' s phone was showing as being in the area at the right time, Darren NICHOLLS says that Mickey STEELE was with Pat, Tony and Craig, the beacons show the phones being in the relevant area at the time (pause). Donna JAGGERS will give evidence that they were going to meet Mickey STEELE that night (pause) and I believe that in, if you're to believe, I think at the back of your mind there's a nagging doubt that Michael STEELE killed Pat, Tony and Craig, was there at the time when they were shot dead (pause). Are you alright.




I think what's funny here is DC Norton asking Sarah Saunders if she knows how mobile phones work and then proceeding to explain it completely wrong.. "I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite,"

I don't thing I'm wrong here but no satellites are used in Cell transmissions, certainly not local call connections. He obviously has a loose grasp of this technology and is basically blagging her at this point. His point about connecting to the nearest mast is subjective also. It doesn't work like that for a number of reasons.

I'm not sure also when he mentions beacons whether he means the masts? Mobile phone beacons perform a different function but I'm sure he must mean masts.

Incidentally, there's also another way of tracking by use mobile phone pinging which can be initiated by someone trying to find the location of phone.. this pinging method needs to be done in real time and basically the initiator send a ping message to the phone which doeesn't involve the handset ringing but the phone responds with details of the signal strength relative to the mast.. a number of these are sent which collect data from a number of masts in the area and triangulate the position to give a more accurate location.

This is used real time to track suspects movements and is transparent to the end user. Whether this type of surveillance was being used on any of the interested parties at the time I don't know. But if it was and wasn't considered to put them in the location then obviously it would be withheld.

We know they were under surveillance but did it include phone pinging? The reason I mention this is because DC Norton mentions "beacon" . Whether that is just a slip or a term used for a mast I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 22, 2019, 12:17:33 PM
I think what's funny here is DC Norton asking Sarah Saunders if she knows how mobile phones work and then proceeding to explain it completely wrong.. "I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite,"

I don't thing I'm wrong here but no satellites are used in Cell transmissions, certainly not local call connections. He obviously has a loose grasp of this technology and is basically blagging her at this point. His point about connecting to the nearest mast is subjective also. It doesn't work like that for a number of reasons.

I'm not sure also when he mentions beacons whether he means the masts? Mobile phone beacons perform a different function but I'm sure he must mean masts.

Incidentally, there's also another way of tracking by use mobile phone pinging which can be initiated by someone trying to find the location of phone.. this pinging method needs to be done in real time and basically the initiator send a ping message to the phone which doeesn't involve the handset ringing but the phone responds with details of the signal strength relative to the mast.. a number of these are sent which collect data from a number of masts in the area and triangulate the position to give a more accurate location.

This is used real time to track suspects movements and is transparent to the end user. Whether this type of surveillance was being used on any of the interested parties at the time I don't know. But if it was and wasn't considered to put them in the location then obviously it would be withheld.

We know they were under surveillance but did it include phone pinging? The reason I mention this is because DC Norton mentions "beacon" . Whether that is just a slip or a term used for a mast I'm not sure.
I think he was probably referring to transmitting masts... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beacon (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beacon)

Differences between cellular and satellite phones...  https://www.getgds.com/resources/blog/cellular-vs-satellite-understanding-the-differences (https://www.getgds.com/resources/blog/cellular-vs-satellite-understanding-the-differences)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 25, 2019, 10:03:25 AM
We don't exist ooop North!... what about the recent killing of Salford's Paul Massey and John Kinsella by the Iceman, now sentenced to a whole life term like fellow Mancunian Stephen Seddon ?  Trust him to rear his ugly mug again!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/murder-paul-massey-how-mr-15641732 (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/murder-paul-massey-how-mr-15641732)

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fellows-paul-massey-jail-murder-15691057 (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fellows-paul-massey-jail-murder-15691057)

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/paul-massey-mr-big-salford-15691678 (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/paul-massey-mr-big-salford-15691678)

Yes I posted a link to the case ooop North but I doubt anyone will bother with films/books etc or that it will find itself entering local folklore in quite the same way as the 'Essex Boys' case has. 

An explanation for this might be because the Essex case involved 3 individuals taken out in 1 hit whereas afaik other cases involve 1 individual per hit.  Eg the cases ooop North involve 2 members of the same gang taken out in 2 separate incidences.

I guess it's the fact the trio were lured to their deaths under some pretence and were caught completely unaware.      3 steroid taking body builders known to have access to firearms, and not averse to using them to further their own ends, all taken out with brutal efficiency in seconds.


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 25, 2019, 10:26:51 AM
I think what's funny here is DC Norton asking Sarah Saunders if she knows how mobile phones work and then proceeding to explain it completely wrong.. "I don't know if you understand how they work, but they work on an antenna basis where they go to the nearest radio mast, and the signal goes up and then it goes up to the satellite,"

I don't thing I'm wrong here but no satellites are used in Cell transmissions, certainly not local call connections. He obviously has a loose grasp of this technology and is basically blagging her at this point. His point about connecting to the nearest mast is subjective also. It doesn't work like that for a number of reasons.

I'm not sure also when he mentions beacons whether he means the masts? Mobile phone beacons perform a different function but I'm sure he must mean masts.

Incidentally, there's also another way of tracking by use mobile phone pinging which can be initiated by someone trying to find the location of phone.. this pinging method needs to be done in real time and basically the initiator send a ping message to the phone which doeesn't involve the handset ringing but the phone responds with details of the signal strength relative to the mast.. a number of these are sent which collect data from a number of masts in the area and triangulate the position to give a more accurate location.

This is used real time to track suspects movements and is transparent to the end user. Whether this type of surveillance was being used on any of the interested parties at the time I don't know. But if it was and wasn't considered to put them in the location then obviously it would be withheld.

We know they were under surveillance but did it include phone pinging? The reason I mention this is because DC Norton mentions "beacon" . Whether that is just a slip or a term used for a mast I'm not sure.

Well certainly no satellites involved in this case.  We know this for certain from expert David Bristow(e) who explains how the mobile phones in question receive and transmit phone calls ie essentially radio waves.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512240#msg512240

The cases above from oooop North involve the killer wearing a GPS device which he used for running this would identify his position to within a few metres unlike mobile phone cell data which can only provide data showing the mobile was used within the range of cell masts. 

Yes I've read about the strength of mobile phone signals being used which I think David Bristowe used to some degree in his evidence.

I'm not sure how experts are expected to respond when providing evidence.  Do they simply respond to points put to them by defence counsel or do they seek to look at the bigger picture?  I simply don't understand why all concerned seem to focus on 3 phone calls ie Tate's received call at 18.44 and the calls made/received between Whomes/Nicholls at 18.59. 

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 25, 2019, 10:38:06 AM
It seems to me Essex Police seized on the above 3 x calls as it supported their theory.  Anything which contradicted this theory or info they could have sought which may have contradicted this theory was simply ignored or not disclosed.



Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 25, 2019, 03:27:46 PM
JUDGE HIDDEN: We come to the forensic scientist John Burns. He has been a forensic scientist since 1966 and has worked exclusively in that time in examination of firearms since 1977. He works at the laboratory at Huntingdon and is an (inaudible) chemist. He did a threefold examination: the scene first, then the garage at South Woodham Ferrers police station and then the post-mortem. The scene is shown in photograph 7 of two that you have seen already and in 7(a) which was the corrected sketch which I asked you to look at just now. He examined the scene with Inspector Hughes and Dr Lannas who you remember was the lady pathologist who attended who I will remind you of in a moment.

The Range Rover was at the end of the farm track, as Mr Burns described it, it was fringed by bushes and small trees. Blood had dripped from the vehicle particularly on the nearside and run downwards in puddles of water towards the farm gate. There were five 12-bore cartridges on the ground by the vehicle - one near the front off-side wheel, two some three feet from the vehicle's mid-point on the off-side and two in the region of the nearside rear corner. So that is the position which is in fact shown on Exhibit 7 (a) which I am just holding up so you can see it. The dots are there. The three deceased were in the positions that he described. The rear nearside window of the door had the rear portion fallen out. The vehicle was taken to the police garage for further examination. Removal of the bodies revealed they had all three suffered head injuries consistent with being caused by a shotgun. Those are the head injuries that he mentioned, the further shotgun wound observed in the right side of Tate's torso. He spoke of blood splattering on the inside of the vehicle and of close range shotgun damage from within 2 feet, he put it, caused to the front off-side edge of the driver's head rest. You remember seeing that in a photograph. It was consistent, that damage, with the pellets continuing on their course and causing injury to the driver, Rolfe's, head or face. There were two fired shotgun cases in the vehicle - one on the floor near the rear off-side door, and the other in the front off-side door pocket. You saw a photograph of a little earlier.

There were fragments of plastic cartridge wadding present and several pellets in various areas of the front of the vehicle. He spoke of the gun shot wounds to each of the passengers saying those to Tucker were at close range from 18 inches to 2 foot 6. The cartridge cases all came from seven 12-bore vantage cartridges with a loading of seven and a half size shot lead shot. Then importantly he examined the firing marks on all of those cartridges microscopically and was satisfied that all seven were fired using the same firearm which he said was almost certainly a pump-action or self- loading 12-bore shotgun. The wads and pieces of wadding were derived from 7 plastic wads of the type that is loaded into 12 bore vantage shotgun cartridges and thus could have emanated from those 7 cases.

The sample of hair from Tate, the back seat passenger, indicated that the shot which caused the injury to his head, the actual injury, had actually passed through glass prior to causing the injury. The only broken glass was of course on the nearside.

He concluded that 8 shots from a 12-bore shotgun appeared to have been fired at the scene: 2 into the right hand side of Tucker, the front passenger, 1 into the back of his head; 2 into the right side of the head and face of Rolfe, the driver; and 3 at the rear passenger Tate - 1 into the right torso, 1 across back of the head and 1 into the left side of the head. He thought that most of the shots appeared to have been fired from close range through the open rear off-side door of the vehicle. One of the shots to the head and face of Rolfe having first passed through the right hand corner of the driver's head rest as you see in the photograph. The shot fired across the head of Tate appeared to have passed through the glass on the rear nearside door. The shot into his head appeared to be fired from the nearside of the vehicle through the same glass. The angle of the shot into his right torso suggested that he was in a position similar to where he was found when the shot was fired. All 7 cartridge cases had been fired using the same weapon; probably a pump or self-loading gun having a large capacity magazine. He could not discount the use of a gun with a lesser magazine capacity, that that would have required reloading. The likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired wads suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel. It was not possible to state with any certainty what order the shots were fired in, but then he made an assumption -- not particularly scientific you may think, and he said that later -- it was a reasonable assumption that one shot was fired at each victim in turn before the other shots were fired. He said from the relaxed positions of the deceased three it appeared to have happened very rapidly. There was not time for special movement or something to move them from their comfortable positions. He told you a bit more about the positions later on.

Then he moved to tell you about how a shotgun is fired. Some of you may have known already and some may not. He said a shotgun cartridge is fired by the bottom half inch of the cartridge containing the propellant and the base being fitted with a primer in the centre which was of soft metal. If the primer was struck a very sharp blow the chemicals ignite and those chemicals in the primer ignite the main propellant. It is the firing pin that causes the sharp blow. Different weapons leave different marks. The pump action has a single barrel with a magazine below it and a wooden (inaudible). The mechanism of an ordinary shotgun as opposed to a self-loading or pump was that you loaded a cartridge from a magazine into the chamber by pulling to the rear and then back to the front. The self-loading was very similar but this time with a tubular magazine. He said in this case of a self loading gun or a pump gun the energy from the discharge was used to transfer the cartridge into the chamber - one was ejected and one was transferred.

As to the ejection of a cartridge in each case he said for a pump-action you get quite a variable distance. That is a variable distance on how far the ejected case is thrown. The longest being between 5 and 6 feet, but sometimes the cartridge would just drop out of the gun. In the self-loading gun there would be a little difference but there is a tendency for the cartridges to eject somewhat further.

As to the damage to Tate's head he said he thought the offside shot struck Tate's head first before striking the window, but the other nearside shot into the head was fired through some of the glass in the window.

Then he moved entirely from everything he had been saying before, and I cannot make that distinction more clear, onto the shotgun found at Meadow Cottage, Exhibit 1O3. He said that was a Mossberg New Haven 600 18, 12-bore pump-action shotgun in working order subject to the requirements of Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968. You have heard the admission that it is a firearm governed by the Act.

Cross-examined by Mr Parkins Mr Burn said this: he agreed that a defence expert, a doctor at Remshore, was experienced in the field of firearms and had attended at Mr Burn's laboratory on 19th August 1997 being afforded all facilities there, and there was nothing between the two experts except for one or two details. Having heard anything about those details they clearly are not important. Mr Burns said that whoever carried out the killing it was a reasonable assumption that they were well versed in the use of such a shotgun. It happened very quickly, probably so quickly the two in front did not have time to appreciate what was going on. The suggestion he had made that each deceased received a disabling shot before the other shot was his opinion based on the findings of the scene. There would be a very loud noise and a total of 8 shots. He would expect a rapid succession and anyone hearing the shots would hear a quick succession of discharges. They could be heard for a distance certainly greater than a mile. Whether someone would hear any whimpering would depend on how quickly the shots came. There would be a gap between the shots.

He had arrived at the scene at five minutes to midday. He went into the field and there was some tyre marks which had led through the gate at some time, but all he could say was there was some tyre marks there. He never saw a spent cartridge in the position on the nearside in diagram 7. He turned to diagram 7(a), the diagram that Mr Bettis had remarked from Mr Hughes' diagram, and he said 7 (a) was in general the position where he himself had found the cases. There was a foot mark visible possibly at the open door. Most shots were discharged from the rear off-side door. Hughes' diagram correctly shows Tate's position. Rolfe had a wound at the side of his face. Then he was asked about the possibility of Tate's head being turned to his right and he said this: Mr Burns could not exclude that Tate's head was turned to the right as the shot was fired and he tended to support the view that his head was somewhat to the right. He was asked about the grazes on Tate's head and he said this: he did not think he could entirely exclude the possibility that that round then went on to hurt Tucker, but having said that he said (although he could not entirely exclude the possibility) the three injuries to the head of Tucker did not show any dispersion of elements which he would expect if one shot had first gone across Tate's head, nor any deposits of blood and hair which he would expect. He said, "It is less likely, but I cannot exclude it." A pump-action gun ejects to the right.

He conducted an examination with scenes of crime officers who were present both before, during and after the removal of the bodies. Somebody had found a cartridge case in the floor well. He considered how it was found there. He excluded the shot from the nearside as getting there because that was very unlikely. If it ejected normally he could not explain the two cartridges found in the car. Hughes cannot agree entirely with the deposit of cartridges. He would normally only expect one cartridge case at the nearside. The angle of discharge to the right varies, and it just failed to go out through the opened rear door and fell into the front door pocket. He said if the gun is sufficiently far into the car the cartridge case would end up in the vehicle.

Turning to a different topic he said the seven and a half size is popular in clay pigeon shooting. He had examined a number of other weapons that had been brought in, several shot guns, none of which fired those cartridges. He examined a revolver and ammunition found at Tate's home address at Gordon Road, Basildon. The revolver was in working order and well capable of firing ammunition. There was also a machine gun from an address at Mill Green (?) Basildon -- you will remember that is the one in connection with Donna Evans that we shall hear about later -- and other weapons which he mentioned having examined. None of those other guns had fired the cartridges he examined.

He was at the post-mortem which was full and comprehensive. He was asked about the time of death. Again he did not come to getting any evidence of it. He said his own explanation would not indicate the time of death conclusively.

He would expect it to be the invariable practice for doctors to attempt to estimate the time of death. Tucker had 3 fatal wounds; Rolfe 2, certainly 1, maybe 2; and Tate 2 fatal wounds and 1 superficial. He could not discount the possibility that one of Tate's wounds went on after hitting him to hit Tucker. All the cartridge cases had got the same marks and they came from the same gun.

In re-examination he said there was no way for him to distinguish from the wounds themselves whether a long barrel or a short barrelled gun was used. That was being asked about wounds themselves could you tell, he had of course already said that the likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired (inaudible) suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.

He said the car door would be open when the majority of the shots were fired and the door would be an obstruction to the right. But the shot that grazed Tate's head to have gone on to hit Tucker, Tate's head would have had to be between the open door and Tucker. If a shot strikes a glancing blow the pellets would be disrupted. At close range the body of the shot goes in the same direction. If there is a glancing impact the pellet ceased to remain as a closed mass and become disturbed and there is no sign in the wound to Tucker of that. There is nothing to indicate any material from Tate's head in relation to what was found in Tucker's head. So that was his evidence in relation to the ballistics of wounds and the shots fired in and about in, that is the Range Rover. The cartridge case is found in and about the Range Rover.

Re the following from the above:

There was also a machine gun from an address at Mill Green (?) Basildon -- you will remember that is the one in connection with Donna Evans that we shall hear about later -

Who was/is Donna Evans?  In O'Mahoney' books he refers to Rolfe's partner, Donna Jaggers, as Dianne Evans? 

Are Donna Evans, Diane Evans and Donna Jaggers one and the same?  If not how are Donna Evans and Diane Evans relevant to the case?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 27, 2019, 09:49:56 AM
I've taken the following from another forum.  In answer to the question at the bottom my response is 'How can anyone believe Steele and Whomes are guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt'?

Post from another forum where poster believes Steele and Whomes guilty as charged:

I have read through Jack Whome's questioning under caution. When asked what he done on the night in question his reply was simply "I have never been to Rettendon". This is a lie, phone records show not only has he been to Rettendon but he was there on the night of the murders.

What is the point of scrutinising the cell tower evidence when its not even Whomes original account? He never took the stand and never testified being at the Wheatsheaf pub in Rettedon. It was an argument the defence concocted to try and explain their clients close proximity to the murders when it took place.

If you look at the map. The SOC and the Wheatsheaf are almost parallel in relation to the Hockley cell tower. If Whomes walked or ran 100 or so feet into the field infront of the SOC to get a better signal he would literally be parallel with the Wheatsheaf. All in a place he claims he as never been!

https://i.ibb.co/ncmWNrL/rodbrmte1.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/JzJppZ5/rodbrmte2.jpg


"DS WILLS: Right okay I accept that Jack and I have listened to what you say (pause). We have got a duty to ask you these questions Jack and this Caution is as much for us as it is for you alright and it says that you do not have to say anything, you don't. It also says that if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in Court it may harm your defence, now if you're not questioned then you don't get the opportunity to either mention it or not to mention it which has implications with both of us, that's why we ask the questions and I accept what you say you say to me I know nothing about I was not involved in these murders. We then ask you were you in Rettendon on the 061295 and I haven't had an answer yet (pause).

Jack WHOMES: I think I've said my piece

DS WILLS: I'm not take I don't take that as an answer to the question that's a saying you think you've said your piece

Jack WHOMES: Well I'm sorry it's best I don't answer

DS WILLS: Okay it's best you don't answer that's what you said (pause) why's that (Pause)

Paul ROACH: I'll remind you of my clients answer. When you said to him have you been to Rettendon he said no.

DS WILLS: I'm sorry is that correct Jack that you hadn't been to Rettendon

Paul ROACH: Been to Rettendon - No and also as far as

DS WILLS: I'm sorry you're answering the question, if you're saying that's what your client said, now I ask him to confirm that

Paul ROACH: No no

DS WILLS: Cause I didn't hear that

Paul ROACH: No he did say: have you been to Rettendon, he answered no

Jack WHOMES: I will clear it for you

Paul ROACH: Please

DS WILLS: I have to ask the question again cause it's getting confusing. Have you ever or were you in 061295 did you go to Rettendon at all

Jack WHOMES: I have never been to Rettendon

DS WILLS: Right "

And so, the victims told people they were going to rettendon with Mickey Steele that night. They were all found dead par Mickey Steele. When Steele and his close associates were first questioned on the matter.

Steele: "No commnet"
Nicholls: "No comment"
Whomes: "I have never been to Rettendon"

How can anyone believe the above three are innocent?


My response:

At what stage during police interviews was it put to Nicholls/Steele/Whomes they were in the frame for murder?  No one is suggesting they were law abiding citizens.  They most definitely were not having all served custodial sentences for previous crimes.  At the time of the murders they were all part of gang involved in organised crime namely the importation and distribution of cannabis.  They were known to visit the area to complete drug deals with the murdered trio.  If on the night of the murders they were in the area to complete drug deals with the murdered trio and/or others they were unlikely to fess up as to why they were in the area.  Being in the area does not necessarily equate to their involvement with the murders.  Indeed the mobile phone cell data would seem to exonerate them:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512240#msg512240

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512241#msg512241

The expert concluded:

2.7. I have subsequently had the opportunity to examine a transcript of that part of the summing-up by Mr Justice Hidden which dealt with the telephone evidence. Whilst the Judge's summing up is generally in accordance with what I remember of my evidence it did not, in my view, convey the points which I had hoped to put over, namely that my interpretation of the evidence of the call detail records for December 6th 1995 was that:-

(a) if Jack Whomes 'phone had been used in Retterndon at 18:59, it might have been used at the Wheatsheaf but it is very unlikely that it was used in Workhouse Lane.

(b) if Michael Steel's 'phone was used in the vicinity of the Childerditch cell site at 18:03 and 18:09 it might have been used close to Bulphan, but it is unlikely that it was used at the Halfway House.

(c) Darren Nicholls statement of his whereabouts at 18:59 was unlikely to be correct.

However what is missing is mobile cell phone data for Tate's call he received from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 placing his mobile in the vicinity of Rettendon along with cell data from all other calls made/received by murdered trio along with Nicholls/Steele/Whomes.  Why did the police investigation and prosecution centre around 3 calls only of which we only have half the data for 1 of these calls ie where was Tate's mobile at 18.44? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 27, 2019, 10:21:41 AM
And if as the police claim the victims told witnesses they were going to meet with Steele on the night of the murders why did it take the police over 5 months to arrest Steele?  During which time he carried out two further importations of cannabis via his RIB.

Who were these witnesses?  Nicholls a convicted criminal who was caught red-handed with his car boot filled with cannabis and Donna Jaggers who seemed only too happy to support her partner's life of crime.  Jaggers  accompanied Rolfe on drug deals and to procure a machine gun where Rolfe apparently told her he was pleased with the machine gun and the damage it could do!  These are not reliable witnesses.  They are witnesses who wanted to ingratiate themselves with the police to avoid the full force of the law for their involvement in very serious crimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhZliTsFG5Y

IMO the guy who narrates these vids seems to take too much at face value eg Donna Jaggers didn't know what to do with the machine gun post murders so handed it in to the police.  How do we know Donna Jaggers contacted the police and handed the gun over?  It's possible the police were able to link Jaggers with the gun in some way eg others who said her and Rolfe placed it in the loft of the property and/or her fingerprints were on it.  Who owned this property and had access to it?

Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 27, 2019, 10:48:38 AM
And if as the police claim the victims told witnesses they were going to meet with Steele on the night of the murders why did it take the police over 5 months to arrest Steele?  During which time he carried out two further importations of cannabis via his RIB.

Who were these witnesses?  Nicholls a convicted criminal who was caught red-handed with his car boot filled with cannabis and Donna Jaggers who seemed only too happy to support her partner's life of crime.  Jaggers  accompanied Rolfe on drug deals and to procure a machine gun where Rolfe apparently told her he was pleased with the machine gun and the damage it could do!  These are not reliable witnesses.  They are witnesses who wanted to ingratiate themselves with the police to avoid the full force of the law for their involvement in very serious crimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhZliTsFG5Y

IMO the guy who narrates these vids seems to take too much at face value eg Donna Jaggers didn't know what to do with the machine gun post murders so handed it in to the police.  How do we know Donna Jaggers contacted the police and handed the gun over?  It's possible the police were able to link Jaggers with the gun in some way eg others who said her and Rolfe placed it in the loft of the property and/or her fingerprints were on it.  Who owned this property and had access to it?

Holly,

To be fair to the youtuber, his style is more aligned to stating what he believes to be the facts from documents with some supposition.. the comments section is then left to the viewer to put their take on it. However, this particular video is drawn from the statement below where it says Donna Jaggers called the police to deal with the weapon..

08/02/96 - STATEMENT of DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 008 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 080296
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the girlfriend of Craig ROLFE and have known him for fifteen years. We first met when I moved to Basildon with my parents. I started going out with Craig when I was 18 but that was quite a casual relationship.

In 000088, just after my 19th birthday, we started a serious relationship and soon after that I moved in with his parents at *** , Basildon. I fell pregnant and in 001289 I gave birth to our daughter Georgie. We had moved into a hostel and were then given 105 Spurriers, Laindon.

During this time Craig was working on building sites doing dry lining. We then moved to 21 Bardfield, Vange but I can not be sure of dates or when this was. In 000394 Craig bought 8 Calshot Avenue, Chafford Hundred, Grays. The house at Bardfield was in my name and I managed to swap this house through the council for my current address.

The neighbours at Bardfield were very nosey and I wanted to avoid problems due to the fact that I only went back there once a week to collect mail etc. I took my current address with a view to buying it and then renting it out. My reationship with Craig was strong.

He trusted me and told me most things that he was up to. In 000595 I had had enough of the drugs. He was using them himself and involved with them and dealing. I moved out of the Calshots address and went to my current address. After about three weeks Craig came back and told me that he was going to make an effort to kick his drug habit.

I knew instinctively that he meant this and we went away on holiday to the Norfolk Broads for a week. When we came back he had one lapse but stuck to it. Most weekends Craig used to go out and I knew that he took smaller amounts of cocaine and used ecstasy but not on the scale that he had been.

I was aware that Craig's associates were Tony TUCKER and Patrick TATE. During the mid to end of 001195 I was aware that they had something going on which at this time I am not willing to discuss. Craig told me that he was going to pick up a machine gun with a silencer and ammunition for their business.

He told me that it was coming from a man I know as Mad Mick who comes from London. I do know that this person is Mick BOWMAN. I asked Craig how much the gun was going to cost and he told me that it was being borrowed and was going back to BOWMAN.

About a week after Tony's birthday, which was 171100, I went with Craig and others, who I do not want to name, to Hollywoods nightclub in Romford. BOWMAN was supposed to have met us in the Global Net Cafe beforehand but he didn't turn up. I then met him through Craig in the nightclub.

I recall thinking that he wasn't what I had expected. Craig had told me stories about him. He was with a girl who I only know as Debbie. About a week after this, I can be no more precise than this, Craig told me that we were going to meet Mick at the Thurrock services to collect the gun.

I went with Craig in the blue Range Rover, F424NPE to the services and had something to eat in the Granada premises. I knew that we were supposed to meet BOWMAN about 1300 hours but he was about ten minutes late. Craig went outside and returned shortly and told me I was to go outside with them.

When I got outside I saw that BOWMAN was there with a white V.W. Corado car and there was another male with an old green Vauxhall Cavalier. BOWMAN was acting very paranoid and I took it that he was on cocaine and was acting hyper because of the situation with the gun.

I am aware how people behave when they have taken cocaine and that is how BOWMAN appeared to me. BOWMAN was trying to organise how they should drive off to a different location. Craig then suggested we should lead, the Cavalier should go in the middle and then BOWMAN at the end.

This only took a matter of minutes. Craig and I then got into the Range Rover and drove onto the A13 and travelled along to the Five Bells roundabout. We then came all the way round the Five Bells roundabout and Craig pulled up onto the Eastern Garages parking area.

The Cavalier parked behind us and BOWMAN parked the Coracle behind that. We all got out and I started to walk away to stay out of the way. I saw a blue/grey holdall come out of the boot of the Cavalier and go into the boot of the Range Rover.

The driver of the Cavalier was a small man about 5'6 tall, early twenties or early thirties, of thin build, he had short cropped hair and wore glasses. I did not hear him speak. I am unable to say who took the holdall out of the Cavalier but I believe Craig would probably have put it in the Range Rover because he was impatient like that.

Craig called me back to the car and I got into the front of the Range Rover. I recall BOWMAN got into the back of the car and told Craig that he wanted the Range Rover once Craig had finished with it. BOWMAN then got out of the car and Craig and I drove off and went to Patrick TATE's bungalow in Gordon Road, Basildon.

Craig had told me that TATE had spoken with the garage proprietor at Eastern Garages a man called Barry DOORMAN, and told him that he had to buy BOWMAN'S Corado. I was aware that BOWMAN was going to stay behind at the garage and speak to DOORMAN about this.

I recall seeing the two men walking towards one another when I was in the Range Rover. When we arrived outside Pat's house, Pat and Tony TUCKER were sitting in Anna WHITEHEAD's (TUCKER's girlfriend) Suzuki Vitara. I can not remember if Craig had spoken to them on his mobile phone prior to arriving at the house.

Tony and Pat got out of the Vitara and Craig took the holdall and gun from the boot and all three went into the house. Sarah SAUNDERS was at this time moving her stuff out of the house with the help of two friends. I didn't want to get involved in what was potentially a difficult situation, so I stayed in the car.

Craig was in the house for about ten to fifteen minutes and then returned to the car with the holdall and gun. He put the items back in the boot and then drove to 108 Mill Green where the gun and holdall were put into the loft. On the way from Gordon Road Craig was saying how pleased they were with it and how much damage it could cause.

I did not see the gun at this time. A couple of days later Craig picked me up from work and told me that Tony, Pat and him had tested the gun. He stated that it was tested over at Tony's Fobbing address in the field. He told me that he had cleaned it all and that he had put it back in the loft.

He told me that he had cleaned his fingerprints off the gun as I was concerned about this. The next thing that happened was that Craig, Tony and Pat were found shot dead. I had a lot of things on my mind but I realised the machine gun was a problem but I knew the Police didn't know about the Mill Green address and I thought it was be safe to leave it here.

During the Christmas period of 000095 Craig's brother moved my belongings from Chafford Hundred to the Mill Green address. First thing after New Year 000096 I moved into Mill Green. I had only been in the house for a couple of days when I decided that I was going to have to do something about the gun.

I spoke to Craig's mum about it and she suggested that I took it round to her house. She was trying to get me to sort it out. I put the holdall on the dining room table and I opened the bag. Until this point I had not seen the gun. It was a dull silvery grey colour.

I only opened the top of the bag and did not see the silencer or ammunition, however I believed they were in there because Craig had told me. I was now in a position where I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about it. I left the gun in the bag and left it with Craig's mother.

A couple of days later I contacted D.I. FLORENCE who came to see me the next day. I only told him that I wanted to see him but didn't tell him what it was about. About 1145 on Thursday 110196 D.I. FLORENCE came to see me at Mill Green and I told him about the gun at Craig's mother's house.

I then took Mr FLORENCE to 158 Beambridge, Basildon where I saw Craig's mother. I asked her where she had put the holdall. I then went to the shower room which is on the ground floor and put the holdall on the dining table for Mr FLORENCE to see. He asked if any of us had touched it and he took it into his possession.

At this time this all I can say about the gun. Referring back to the V.W. Corado I am aware that from talking to Craig that the vehicle was purchased by Eastern Garages and I believe BOWMAN was given about seven thousand pounds. Craig told me that BOWMAN had payed about ten thousand pounds for it.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 080296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 27, 2019, 11:06:15 AM
Holly,

What's your view of why the other interesting Phone data was not made available.. we know from discussion that there was a lot more phone activity going on and if the theory is correct it could make the case against the two men unsafe.  What puzzles me is how this works in court... from what I've read it looks like the prosecution have possibly cherry picked the data they want that looks at first glance to put the two men in the frame but ignores other possible evidence that could be contrary this. I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is, can you only work with the evidence you have, supplied by the police or can you go and get your own evidence... I'm thinking this is possibly a dumb question but I have to ask it as I'm unsure why the defence never looked at all the other phone data?  thanks
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 27, 2019, 11:19:55 AM
Holly,

To be fair to the youtuber, his style is more aligned to stating what he believes to be the facts from documents with some supposition.. the comments section is then left to the viewer to put their take on it. However, this particular video is drawn from the statement below where it says Donna Jaggers called the police to deal with the weapon..

08/02/96 - STATEMENT of DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 008 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 080296
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the girlfriend of Craig ROLFE and have known him for fifteen years. We first met when I moved to Basildon with my parents. I started going out with Craig when I was 18 but that was quite a casual relationship.

In 000088, just after my 19th birthday, we started a serious relationship and soon after that I moved in with his parents at *** , Basildon. I fell pregnant and in 001289 I gave birth to our daughter Georgie. We had moved into a hostel and were then given 105 Spurriers, Laindon.

During this time Craig was working on building sites doing dry lining. We then moved to 21 Bardfield, Vange but I can not be sure of dates or when this was. In 000394 Craig bought 8 Calshot Avenue, Chafford Hundred, Grays. The house at Bardfield was in my name and I managed to swap this house through the council for my current address.

The neighbours at Bardfield were very nosey and I wanted to avoid problems due to the fact that I only went back there once a week to collect mail etc. I took my current address with a view to buying it and then renting it out. My reationship with Craig was strong.

He trusted me and told me most things that he was up to. In 000595 I had had enough of the drugs. He was using them himself and involved with them and dealing. I moved out of the Calshots address and went to my current address. After about three weeks Craig came back and told me that he was going to make an effort to kick his drug habit.

I knew instinctively that he meant this and we went away on holiday to the Norfolk Broads for a week. When we came back he had one lapse but stuck to it. Most weekends Craig used to go out and I knew that he took smaller amounts of cocaine and used ecstasy but not on the scale that he had been.

I was aware that Craig's associates were Tony TUCKER and Patrick TATE. During the mid to end of 001195 I was aware that they had something going on which at this time I am not willing to discuss. Craig told me that he was going to pick up a machine gun with a silencer and ammunition for their business.

He told me that it was coming from a man I know as Mad Mick who comes from London. I do know that this person is Mick BOWMAN. I asked Craig how much the gun was going to cost and he told me that it was being borrowed and was going back to BOWMAN.

About a week after Tony's birthday, which was 171100, I went with Craig and others, who I do not want to name, to Hollywoods nightclub in Romford. BOWMAN was supposed to have met us in the Global Net Cafe beforehand but he didn't turn up. I then met him through Craig in the nightclub.

I recall thinking that he wasn't what I had expected. Craig had told me stories about him. He was with a girl who I only know as Debbie. About a week after this, I can be no more precise than this, Craig told me that we were going to meet Mick at the Thurrock services to collect the gun.

I went with Craig in the blue Range Rover, F424NPE to the services and had something to eat in the Granada premises. I knew that we were supposed to meet BOWMAN about 1300 hours but he was about ten minutes late. Craig went outside and returned shortly and told me I was to go outside with them.

When I got outside I saw that BOWMAN was there with a white V.W. Corado car and there was another male with an old green Vauxhall Cavalier. BOWMAN was acting very paranoid and I took it that he was on cocaine and was acting hyper because of the situation with the gun.

I am aware how people behave when they have taken cocaine and that is how BOWMAN appeared to me. BOWMAN was trying to organise how they should drive off to a different location. Craig then suggested we should lead, the Cavalier should go in the middle and then BOWMAN at the end.

This only took a matter of minutes. Craig and I then got into the Range Rover and drove onto the A13 and travelled along to the Five Bells roundabout. We then came all the way round the Five Bells roundabout and Craig pulled up onto the Eastern Garages parking area.

The Cavalier parked behind us and BOWMAN parked the Coracle behind that. We all got out and I started to walk away to stay out of the way. I saw a blue/grey holdall come out of the boot of the Cavalier and go into the boot of the Range Rover.

The driver of the Cavalier was a small man about 5'6 tall, early twenties or early thirties, of thin build, he had short cropped hair and wore glasses. I did not hear him speak. I am unable to say who took the holdall out of the Cavalier but I believe Craig would probably have put it in the Range Rover because he was impatient like that.

Craig called me back to the car and I got into the front of the Range Rover. I recall BOWMAN got into the back of the car and told Craig that he wanted the Range Rover once Craig had finished with it. BOWMAN then got out of the car and Craig and I drove off and went to Patrick TATE's bungalow in Gordon Road, Basildon.

Craig had told me that TATE had spoken with the garage proprietor at Eastern Garages a man called Barry DOORMAN, and told him that he had to buy BOWMAN'S Corado. I was aware that BOWMAN was going to stay behind at the garage and speak to DOORMAN about this.

I recall seeing the two men walking towards one another when I was in the Range Rover. When we arrived outside Pat's house, Pat and Tony TUCKER were sitting in Anna WHITEHEAD's (TUCKER's girlfriend) Suzuki Vitara. I can not remember if Craig had spoken to them on his mobile phone prior to arriving at the house.

Tony and Pat got out of the Vitara and Craig took the holdall and gun from the boot and all three went into the house. Sarah SAUNDERS was at this time moving her stuff out of the house with the help of two friends. I didn't want to get involved in what was potentially a difficult situation, so I stayed in the car.

Craig was in the house for about ten to fifteen minutes and then returned to the car with the holdall and gun. He put the items back in the boot and then drove to 108 Mill Green where the gun and holdall were put into the loft. On the way from Gordon Road Craig was saying how pleased they were with it and how much damage it could cause.

I did not see the gun at this time. A couple of days later Craig picked me up from work and told me that Tony, Pat and him had tested the gun. He stated that it was tested over at Tony's Fobbing address in the field. He told me that he had cleaned it all and that he had put it back in the loft.

He told me that he had cleaned his fingerprints off the gun as I was concerned about this. The next thing that happened was that Craig, Tony and Pat were found shot dead. I had a lot of things on my mind but I realised the machine gun was a problem but I knew the Police didn't know about the Mill Green address and I thought it was be safe to leave it here.

During the Christmas period of 000095 Craig's brother moved my belongings from Chafford Hundred to the Mill Green address. First thing after New Year 000096 I moved into Mill Green. I had only been in the house for a couple of days when I decided that I was going to have to do something about the gun.

I spoke to Craig's mum about it and she suggested that I took it round to her house. She was trying to get me to sort it out. I put the holdall on the dining room table and I opened the bag. Until this point I had not seen the gun. It was a dull silvery grey colour.

I only opened the top of the bag and did not see the silencer or ammunition, however I believed they were in there because Craig had told me. I was now in a position where I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about it. I left the gun in the bag and left it with Craig's mother.

A couple of days later I contacted D.I. FLORENCE who came to see me the next day. I only told him that I wanted to see him but didn't tell him what it was about. About 1145 on Thursday 110196 D.I. FLORENCE came to see me at Mill Green and I told him about the gun at Craig's mother's house.

I then took Mr FLORENCE to 158 Beambridge, Basildon where I saw Craig's mother. I asked her where she had put the holdall. I then went to the shower room which is on the ground floor and put the holdall on the dining table for Mr FLORENCE to see. He asked if any of us had touched it and he took it into his possession.

At this time this all I can say about the gun. Referring back to the V.W. Corado I am aware that from talking to Craig that the vehicle was purchased by Eastern Garages and I believe BOWMAN was given about seven thousand pounds. Craig told me that BOWMAN had payed about ten thousand pounds for it.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 080296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Ok fair enough  8((()*/

I don't find DJ's WS's at all reliable.  Eg the stat above states she gave Rolfe an ultimatum about his drug habit and yet appears to condone the procuring of a machine gun whereby she is happy to listen to Rolfe say how  happy he was with it and the damage it could cause! 

I've not seen the above before and only read it quickly so will need to read again. 

Given it seems Tucker was the leader why do we not hear more from his girlfriend, Anna Whitehead, about what he was up to? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 27, 2019, 11:29:37 AM
I totally agree, some of it sounds very implausible to say the least.. between the day of the murders and the first statements there must have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions going on..

I don't know whether all of the statements have made available but there appears to be nothing from Anna Whitehead or other key individuals..

You asked about Clare.. one of Pat Tate's acquaintances...  below

06/02/96 - STATEMENT of SUSAN ANNE CAREY

NAME: SUSAN ANNE CAREY
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 52 05031943

Who states:- This statement consisting of 003 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 060296
S A CAREY (SIGNED)

I live with my family in the Eastwood area. I have four daughters the youngest of whom is Claire. Claire is twenty three years old. On and off Claire lives at home but spends time with her boyfiend. At present Claire works at TGI Fridays at the Lakeside complex in West Thurrock, however she had previously worked in Southend at a restaurant called 'Sellars' and I believe that a Kim WEBBER was the owner.

It was through Claire's association with the restaurant and Kim that she became acquainted with Pat TATE. My first impression of Pat was only from what Claire told me and I first became aware of Claire actually seeing Pat was when he was at hospital having been shot in the arm.

I had only ever met Pat once when he came to the door at my house calling for Claire. I was aware that Pat also served some time is prison and that he would keep in contact with Claire when he got out. It was only a couple of months ago when he must have been released because I started getting phone calls from Pat.

He would be very polite and ask for Claire and more often than not she wasn't in and he would apologise for troubling me and ask that I leave a message for Claire to contact him. I approached Claire and one stage and voiced my concern because I didn't really want my daughter getting involved with him because of his past.

Claire assured me that she wasn't. The last time I had any contact with Pat TATE was on Wednesday 061295 when he phoned me at home around 1800 hours.

He had rung several times earlier in the day asking for Claire and on the final occasion Claire still wasn't back from work and Pat said that he had to go out for about half an hour but asked that I tell Claire to hang on as he would be back. Pat didn't sound concerned or worried on the phone.

The only other contact I had was later that evening from Claire herself sating she had been waiting outside Pat's for ages and he hadn't turned up so she was going to go back to her boyfriends'. When Pat last rang he sounded like he was at home because he said 'please tell her to hold on'.

He explained that he was thinking about leaving a note in his door for Claire but didn't know whether he would bother now. Whenever Pat rang up he would always introduce himself as Pat TATE and I had no doubts that it was not him.

S A CAREY SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 060296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 27, 2019, 11:34:33 AM
Holly,

What's your view of why the other interesting Phone data was not made available.. we know from discussion that there was a lot more phone activity going on and if the theory is correct it could make the case against the two men unsafe.  What puzzles me is how this works in court... from what I've read it looks like the prosecution have possibly cherry picked the data they want that looks at first glance to put the two men in the frame but ignores other possible evidence that could be contrary this. I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is, can you only work with the evidence you have, supplied by the police or can you go and get your own evidence... I'm thinking this is possibly a dumb question but I have to ask it as I'm unsure why the defence never looked at all the other phone data?  thanks

I will have to check out with others what the legal position is but I would be astounded if the defence were unable to say to the prosecution ok you want to assert our clients were in the vicinity of soc at the time you believe the victims were murdered based on a phone call Tate received on his mobile at 18.44.  Can you show us the cell data placing Tate's mobile close to soc at 18.44.  I would think it wouldnhave been possible for the defence to carry out their own checks to determine how many phones the various players used and have all of them forensically examined in terms of data. 

Defence teams do make mistakes.  Bearing in mind this sort of evidence was new anyway coupled with the fact the solicitor only qualified in 1995.  No other profession would allow someone with so little experience to handle such a complex and serious case.  It's surely why we have a range of medical professionals ranging from junior doctors to consultants at the top of their field.   You would expect a solicitor handling a case of this magnitude to be on par with medical consultants not a junior doctor.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 27, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
I totally agree, some of it sounds very implausible to say the least.. between the day of the murders and the first statements there must have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions going on..

I don't know whether all of the statements have made available but there appears to be nothing from Anna Whitehead or other key individuals..

You asked about Clare.. one of Pat Tate's acquaintances...  below

06/02/96 - STATEMENT of SUSAN ANNE CAREY

NAME: SUSAN ANNE CAREY
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 52 05031943

Who states:- This statement consisting of 003 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 060296
S A CAREY (SIGNED)

I live with my family in the Eastwood area. I have four daughters the youngest of whom is Claire. Claire is twenty three years old. On and off Claire lives at home but spends time with her boyfiend. At present Claire works at TGI Fridays at the Lakeside complex in West Thurrock, however she had previously worked in Southend at a restaurant called 'Sellars' and I believe that a Kim WEBBER was the owner.

It was through Claire's association with the restaurant and Kim that she became acquainted with Pat TATE. My first impression of Pat was only from what Claire told me and I first became aware of Claire actually seeing Pat was when he was at hospital having been shot in the arm.

I had only ever met Pat once when he came to the door at my house calling for Claire. I was aware that Pat also served some time is prison and that he would keep in contact with Claire when he got out. It was only a couple of months ago when he must have been released because I started getting phone calls from Pat.

He would be very polite and ask for Claire and more often than not she wasn't in and he would apologise for troubling me and ask that I leave a message for Claire to contact him. I approached Claire and one stage and voiced my concern because I didn't really want my daughter getting involved with him because of his past.

Claire assured me that she wasn't. The last time I had any contact with Pat TATE was on Wednesday 061295 when he phoned me at home around 1800 hours.

He had rung several times earlier in the day asking for Claire and on the final occasion Claire still wasn't back from work and Pat said that he had to go out for about half an hour but asked that I tell Claire to hang on as he would be back. Pat didn't sound concerned or worried on the phone.

The only other contact I had was later that evening from Claire herself sating she had been waiting outside Pat's for ages and he hadn't turned up so she was going to go back to her boyfriends'. When Pat last rang he sounded like he was at home because he said 'please tell her to hold on'.

He explained that he was thinking about leaving a note in his door for Claire but didn't know whether he would bother now. Whenever Pat rang up he would always introduce himself as Pat TATE and I had no doubts that it was not him.

S A CAREY SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 060296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Hmmm  *%87

Ok so these people were single to all intents and purposes but it seems 'Claire' has another boyfriend too and as far as Lizzie Fletcher was concerned she was Tate's girlfriend.  Lizzie Fletcher had been with Tate earlier in the day  to Basildon Tyre Services where her VW polo was checked in to have work carried out and she drove away in Tate's black Mercedes.

Do you have a wit stat from Claire or are we just hearing from Ms Carey who claims to be the mother? 

I don't have time right now to read this properly so will look again later.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 27, 2019, 11:59:50 AM
Holly,

To be fair to the youtuber, his style is more aligned to stating what he believes to be the facts from documents with some supposition.. the comments section is then left to the viewer to put their take on it. However, this particular video is drawn from the statement below where it says Donna Jaggers called the police to deal with the weapon..

08/02/96 - STATEMENT of DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 008 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 080296
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the girlfriend of Craig ROLFE and have known him for fifteen years. We first met when I moved to Basildon with my parents. I started going out with Craig when I was 18 but that was quite a casual relationship.

In 000088, just after my 19th birthday, we started a serious relationship and soon after that I moved in with his parents at *** , Basildon. I fell pregnant and in 001289 I gave birth to our daughter Georgie. We had moved into a hostel and were then given 105 Spurriers, Laindon.

During this time Craig was working on building sites doing dry lining. We then moved to 21 Bardfield, Vange but I can not be sure of dates or when this was. In 000394 Craig bought 8 Calshot Avenue, Chafford Hundred, Grays. The house at Bardfield was in my name and I managed to swap this house through the council for my current address.

The neighbours at Bardfield were very nosey and I wanted to avoid problems due to the fact that I only went back there once a week to collect mail etc. I took my current address with a view to buying it and then renting it out. My reationship with Craig was strong.

He trusted me and told me most things that he was up to. In 000595 I had had enough of the drugs. He was using them himself and involved with them and dealing. I moved out of the Calshots address and went to my current address. After about three weeks Craig came back and told me that he was going to make an effort to kick his drug habit.

I knew instinctively that he meant this and we went away on holiday to the Norfolk Broads for a week. When we came back he had one lapse but stuck to it. Most weekends Craig used to go out and I knew that he took smaller amounts of cocaine and used ecstasy but not on the scale that he had been.

I was aware that Craig's associates were Tony TUCKER and Patrick TATE. During the mid to end of 001195 I was aware that they had something going on which at this time I am not willing to discuss. Craig told me that he was going to pick up a machine gun with a silencer and ammunition for their business.

He told me that it was coming from a man I know as Mad Mick who comes from London. I do know that this person is Mick BOWMAN. I asked Craig how much the gun was going to cost and he told me that it was being borrowed and was going back to BOWMAN.

About a week after Tony's birthday, which was 171100, I went with Craig and others, who I do not want to name, to Hollywoods nightclub in Romford. BOWMAN was supposed to have met us in the Global Net Cafe beforehand but he didn't turn up. I then met him through Craig in the nightclub.

I recall thinking that he wasn't what I had expected. Craig had told me stories about him. He was with a girl who I only know as Debbie. About a week after this, I can be no more precise than this, Craig told me that we were going to meet Mick at the Thurrock services to collect the gun.

I went with Craig in the blue Range Rover, F424NPE to the services and had something to eat in the Granada premises. I knew that we were supposed to meet BOWMAN about 1300 hours but he was about ten minutes late. Craig went outside and returned shortly and told me I was to go outside with them.

When I got outside I saw that BOWMAN was there with a white V.W. Corado car and there was another male with an old green Vauxhall Cavalier. BOWMAN was acting very paranoid and I took it that he was on cocaine and was acting hyper because of the situation with the gun.

I am aware how people behave when they have taken cocaine and that is how BOWMAN appeared to me. BOWMAN was trying to organise how they should drive off to a different location. Craig then suggested we should lead, the Cavalier should go in the middle and then BOWMAN at the end.

This only took a matter of minutes. Craig and I then got into the Range Rover and drove onto the A13 and travelled along to the Five Bells roundabout. We then came all the way round the Five Bells roundabout and Craig pulled up onto the Eastern Garages parking area.

The Cavalier parked behind us and BOWMAN parked the Coracle behind that. We all got out and I started to walk away to stay out of the way. I saw a blue/grey holdall come out of the boot of the Cavalier and go into the boot of the Range Rover.

The driver of the Cavalier was a small man about 5'6 tall, early twenties or early thirties, of thin build, he had short cropped hair and wore glasses. I did not hear him speak. I am unable to say who took the holdall out of the Cavalier but I believe Craig would probably have put it in the Range Rover because he was impatient like that.

Craig called me back to the car and I got into the front of the Range Rover. I recall BOWMAN got into the back of the car and told Craig that he wanted the Range Rover once Craig had finished with it. BOWMAN then got out of the car and Craig and I drove off and went to Patrick TATE's bungalow in Gordon Road, Basildon.

Craig had told me that TATE had spoken with the garage proprietor at Eastern Garages a man called Barry DOORMAN, and told him that he had to buy BOWMAN'S Corado. I was aware that BOWMAN was going to stay behind at the garage and speak to DOORMAN about this.

I recall seeing the two men walking towards one another when I was in the Range Rover. When we arrived outside Pat's house, Pat and Tony TUCKER were sitting in Anna WHITEHEAD's (TUCKER's girlfriend) Suzuki Vitara. I can not remember if Craig had spoken to them on his mobile phone prior to arriving at the house.

Tony and Pat got out of the Vitara and Craig took the holdall and gun from the boot and all three went into the house. Sarah SAUNDERS was at this time moving her stuff out of the house with the help of two friends. I didn't want to get involved in what was potentially a difficult situation, so I stayed in the car.

Craig was in the house for about ten to fifteen minutes and then returned to the car with the holdall and gun. He put the items back in the boot and then drove to 108 Mill Green where the gun and holdall were put into the loft. On the way from Gordon Road Craig was saying how pleased they were with it and how much damage it could cause.

I did not see the gun at this time. A couple of days later Craig picked me up from work and told me that Tony, Pat and him had tested the gun. He stated that it was tested over at Tony's Fobbing address in the field. He told me that he had cleaned it all and that he had put it back in the loft.

He told me that he had cleaned his fingerprints off the gun as I was concerned about this. The next thing that happened was that Craig, Tony and Pat were found shot dead. I had a lot of things on my mind but I realised the machine gun was a problem but I knew the Police didn't know about the Mill Green address and I thought it was be safe to leave it here.

During the Christmas period of 000095 Craig's brother moved my belongings from Chafford Hundred to the Mill Green address. First thing after New Year 000096 I moved into Mill Green. I had only been in the house for a couple of days when I decided that I was going to have to do something about the gun.

I spoke to Craig's mum about it and she suggested that I took it round to her house. She was trying to get me to sort it out. I put the holdall on the dining room table and I opened the bag. Until this point I had not seen the gun. It was a dull silvery grey colour.

I only opened the top of the bag and did not see the silencer or ammunition, however I believed they were in there because Craig had told me. I was now in a position where I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about it. I left the gun in the bag and left it with Craig's mother.

A couple of days later I contacted D.I. FLORENCE who came to see me the next day. I only told him that I wanted to see him but didn't tell him what it was about. About 1145 on Thursday 110196 D.I. FLORENCE came to see me at Mill Green and I told him about the gun at Craig's mother's house.

I then took Mr FLORENCE to 158 Beambridge, Basildon where I saw Craig's mother. I asked her where she had put the holdall. I then went to the shower room which is on the ground floor and put the holdall on the dining table for Mr FLORENCE to see. He asked if any of us had touched it and he took it into his possession.

At this time this all I can say about the gun. Referring back to the V.W. Corado I am aware that from talking to Craig that the vehicle was purchased by Eastern Garages and I believe BOWMAN was given about seven thousand pounds. Craig told me that BOWMAN had payed about ten thousand pounds for it.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 080296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Is it possible the witnesses who said they saw a Sierra Cosworth with a Range Rover on 6th Dec might have been mistaken and the vehicle was in fact a VW Corrado?

Were these witnesses/testimony checked out as authentic? 
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 27, 2019, 12:23:17 PM
I totally agree, some of it sounds very implausible to say the least.. between the day of the murders and the first statements there must have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions going on..

I don't know whether all of the statements have made available but there appears to be nothing from Anna Whitehead or other key individuals..

You asked about Clare.. one of Pat Tate's acquaintances...  below

06/02/96 - STATEMENT of SUSAN ANNE CAREY

NAME: SUSAN ANNE CAREY
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 52 05031943

Who states:- This statement consisting of 003 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 060296
S A CAREY (SIGNED)

I live with my family in the Eastwood area. I have four daughters the youngest of whom is Claire. Claire is twenty three years old. On and off Claire lives at home but spends time with her boyfiend. At present Claire works at TGI Fridays at the Lakeside complex in West Thurrock, however she had previously worked in Southend at a restaurant called 'Sellars' and I believe that a Kim WEBBER was the owner.

It was through Claire's association with the restaurant and Kim that she became acquainted with Pat TATE. My first impression of Pat was only from what Claire told me and I first became aware of Claire actually seeing Pat was when he was at hospital having been shot in the arm.

I had only ever met Pat once when he came to the door at my house calling for Claire. I was aware that Pat also served some time is prison and that he would keep in contact with Claire when he got out. It was only a couple of months ago when he must have been released because I started getting phone calls from Pat.

He would be very polite and ask for Claire and more often than not she wasn't in and he would apologise for troubling me and ask that I leave a message for Claire to contact him. I approached Claire and one stage and voiced my concern because I didn't really want my daughter getting involved with him because of his past.

Claire assured me that she wasn't. The last time I had any contact with Pat TATE was on Wednesday 061295 when he phoned me at home around 1800 hours.

He had rung several times earlier in the day asking for Claire and on the final occasion Claire still wasn't back from work and Pat said that he had to go out for about half an hour but asked that I tell Claire to hang on as he would be back. Pat didn't sound concerned or worried on the phone.

The only other contact I had was later that evening from Claire herself sating she had been waiting outside Pat's for ages and he hadn't turned up so she was going to go back to her boyfriends'. When Pat last rang he sounded like he was at home because he said 'please tell her to hold on'.

He explained that he was thinking about leaving a note in his door for Claire but didn't know whether he would bother now. Whenever Pat rang up he would always introduce himself as Pat TATE and I had no doubts that it was not him.

S A CAREY SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 060296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

The only registered UK birth for a Claire Carey 23 yoa in 1996 is coming up as a Joanne Claire Carey:

https://www.findmypast.com/search/results?sourcecategory=life+events+%28bmds%29&firstname=claire&lastname=carey&yearofbirth=1972&yearofbirth_offset=0&keywordsplace=essex
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Chud on February 27, 2019, 01:09:12 PM
Is it possible the witnesses who said they saw a Sierra Cosworth with a Range Rover on 6th Dec might have been mistaken and the vehicle was in fact a VW Corrado?

Were these witnesses/testimony checked out as authentic?

Quite possibly, they are similar aren'y they.. If it's the Rebecca Carr testimony, this appears to be a good sighting as she believes from police photographs that Tate was inside as they were parked at traffic lights. The better sighting was Andrew Charles Reynolds at 18:05 in Basildon..  However, Rebecca Carr states she believed the white car (Sierra) was a C registered plate, the VW Corrado was a J registered plate.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Myster on February 27, 2019, 06:13:49 PM
Fake number plates?

VW Corrado...

(https://i.imgur.com/lP7jARY.png?1)

Sierra Cosworth...

(https://i.imgur.com/bEklPzF.jpg)
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 27, 2019, 06:16:31 PM
Holly,

To be fair to the youtuber, his style is more aligned to stating what he believes to be the facts from documents with some supposition.. the comments section is then left to the viewer to put their take on it. However, this particular video is drawn from the statement below where it says Donna Jaggers called the police to deal with the weapon..

08/02/96 - STATEMENT of DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 008 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 080296
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the girlfriend of Craig ROLFE and have known him for fifteen years. We first met when I moved to Basildon with my parents. I started going out with Craig when I was 18 but that was quite a casual relationship.

In 000088, just after my 19th birthday, we started a serious relationship and soon after that I moved in with his parents at *** , Basildon. I fell pregnant and in 001289 I gave birth to our daughter Georgie. We had moved into a hostel and were then given 105 Spurriers, Laindon.

During this time Craig was working on building sites doing dry lining. We then moved to 21 Bardfield, Vange but I can not be sure of dates or when this was. In 000394 Craig bought 8 Calshot Avenue, Chafford Hundred, Grays. The house at Bardfield was in my name and I managed to swap this house through the council for my current address.

The neighbours at Bardfield were very nosey and I wanted to avoid problems due to the fact that I only went back there once a week to collect mail etc. I took my current address with a view to buying it and then renting it out. My reationship with Craig was strong.

He trusted me and told me most things that he was up to. In 000595 I had had enough of the drugs. He was using them himself and involved with them and dealing. I moved out of the Calshots address and went to my current address. After about three weeks Craig came back and told me that he was going to make an effort to kick his drug habit.

I knew instinctively that he meant this and we went away on holiday to the Norfolk Broads for a week. When we came back he had one lapse but stuck to it. Most weekends Craig used to go out and I knew that he took smaller amounts of cocaine and used ecstasy but not on the scale that he had been.

I was aware that Craig's associates were Tony TUCKER and Patrick TATE. During the mid to end of 001195 I was aware that they had something going on which at this time I am not willing to discuss. Craig told me that he was going to pick up a machine gun with a silencer and ammunition for their business.

He told me that it was coming from a man I know as Mad Mick who comes from London. I do know that this person is Mick BOWMAN. I asked Craig how much the gun was going to cost and he told me that it was being borrowed and was going back to BOWMAN.

About a week after Tony's birthday, which was 171100, I went with Craig and others, who I do not want to name, to Hollywoods nightclub in Romford. BOWMAN was supposed to have met us in the Global Net Cafe beforehand but he didn't turn up. I then met him through Craig in the nightclub.

I recall thinking that he wasn't what I had expected. Craig had told me stories about him. He was with a girl who I only know as Debbie. About a week after this, I can be no more precise than this, Craig told me that we were going to meet Mick at the Thurrock services to collect the gun.

I went with Craig in the blue Range Rover, F424NPE to the services and had something to eat in the Granada premises. I knew that we were supposed to meet BOWMAN about 1300 hours but he was about ten minutes late. Craig went outside and returned shortly and told me I was to go outside with them.

When I got outside I saw that BOWMAN was there with a white V.W. Corado car and there was another male with an old green Vauxhall Cavalier. BOWMAN was acting very paranoid and I took it that he was on cocaine and was acting hyper because of the situation with the gun.

I am aware how people behave when they have taken cocaine and that is how BOWMAN appeared to me. BOWMAN was trying to organise how they should drive off to a different location. Craig then suggested we should lead, the Cavalier should go in the middle and then BOWMAN at the end.

This only took a matter of minutes. Craig and I then got into the Range Rover and drove onto the A13 and travelled along to the Five Bells roundabout. We then came all the way round the Five Bells roundabout and Craig pulled up onto the Eastern Garages parking area.

The Cavalier parked behind us and BOWMAN parked the Coracle behind that. We all got out and I started to walk away to stay out of the way. I saw a blue/grey holdall come out of the boot of the Cavalier and go into the boot of the Range Rover.

The driver of the Cavalier was a small man about 5'6 tall, early twenties or early thirties, of thin build, he had short cropped hair and wore glasses. I did not hear him speak. I am unable to say who took the holdall out of the Cavalier but I believe Craig would probably have put it in the Range Rover because he was impatient like that.

Craig called me back to the car and I got into the front of the Range Rover. I recall BOWMAN got into the back of the car and told Craig that he wanted the Range Rover once Craig had finished with it. BOWMAN then got out of the car and Craig and I drove off and went to Patrick TATE's bungalow in Gordon Road, Basildon.

Craig had told me that TATE had spoken with the garage proprietor at Eastern Garages a man called Barry DOORMAN, and told him that he had to buy BOWMAN'S Corado. I was aware that BOWMAN was going to stay behind at the garage and speak to DOORMAN about this.

I recall seeing the two men walking towards one another when I was in the Range Rover. When we arrived outside Pat's house, Pat and Tony TUCKER were sitting in Anna WHITEHEAD's (TUCKER's girlfriend) Suzuki Vitara. I can not remember if Craig had spoken to them on his mobile phone prior to arriving at the house.

Tony and Pat got out of the Vitara and Craig took the holdall and gun from the boot and all three went into the house. Sarah SAUNDERS was at this time moving her stuff out of the house with the help of two friends. I didn't want to get involved in what was potentially a difficult situation, so I stayed in the car.

Craig was in the house for about ten to fifteen minutes and then returned to the car with the holdall and gun. He put the items back in the boot and then drove to 108 Mill Green where the gun and holdall were put into the loft. On the way from Gordon Road Craig was saying how pleased they were with it and how much damage it could cause.

I did not see the gun at this time. A couple of days later Craig picked me up from work and told me that Tony, Pat and him had tested the gun. He stated that it was tested over at Tony's Fobbing address in the field. He told me that he had cleaned it all and that he had put it back in the loft.

He told me that he had cleaned his fingerprints off the gun as I was concerned about this. The next thing that happened was that Craig, Tony and Pat were found shot dead. I had a lot of things on my mind but I realised the machine gun was a problem but I knew the Police didn't know about the Mill Green address and I thought it was be safe to leave it here.

During the Christmas period of 000095 Craig's brother moved my belongings from Chafford Hundred to the Mill Green address. First thing after New Year 000096 I moved into Mill Green. I had only been in the house for a couple of days when I decided that I was going to have to do something about the gun.

I spoke to Craig's mum about it and she suggested that I took it round to her house. She was trying to get me to sort it out. I put the holdall on the dining room table and I opened the bag. Until this point I had not seen the gun. It was a dull silvery grey colour.

I only opened the top of the bag and did not see the silencer or ammunition, however I believed they were in there because Craig had told me. I was now in a position where I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about it. I left the gun in the bag and left it with Craig's mother.

A couple of days later I contacted D.I. FLORENCE who came to see me the next day. I only told him that I wanted to see him but didn't tell him what it was about. About 1145 on Thursday 110196 D.I. FLORENCE came to see me at Mill Green and I told him about the gun at Craig's mother's house.

I then took Mr FLORENCE to 158 Beambridge, Basildon where I saw Craig's mother. I asked her where she had put the holdall. I then went to the shower room which is on the ground floor and put the holdall on the dining table for Mr FLORENCE to see. He asked if any of us had touched it and he took it into his possession.

At this time this all I can say about the gun. Referring back to the V.W. Corado I am aware that from talking to Craig that the vehicle was purchased by Eastern Garages and I believe BOWMAN was given about seven thousand pounds. Craig told me that BOWMAN had payed about ten thousand pounds for it.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 080296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

I've re-read the first couple of paras and I detect a bit of council housing fraud  ?>)()<

DJ claims the council house she shared with Rolfe at Barfield was in her name.  Rolfe then bought the property in Chafford Hundred in March 1994.  It appears she maintained the council owned property at Barfield but managed to swap it for the council house she moved into post murders at Mill Green.   The house at Mill Green being the house the machine gun was stored at.  How many other council properties did she have?  Bearing in mind she was living with Rolfe at Chafford Hundred.

Essex Police:  Do you realise sub-letting multiple council properties is a criminal offence?

https://www.gov.uk/council-housing/council-housing-fraud

DJ:  Turns on water works

Essex Police:  If you can help us we might be able to help you sort this mess out.  After all you wouldn't want to be parted from your 6 year old daughter by serving a custodial sentence would you?  We also found a sub-machine gun in your loft which you do not have a firearms licence for.

DJ:  No

Bearing in mind the above is probably just the tip of the ice-berg. 

This woman was not averse to accompanying Rolfe on drug deals and procuring a machine gun.  It now appears she was committing council housing fraud.  Was she punished in any way for any of this?
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 28, 2019, 09:45:36 AM
Quite possibly, they are similar aren'y they.. If it's the Rebecca Carr testimony, this appears to be a good sighting as she believes from police photographs that Tate was inside as they were parked at traffic lights. The better sighting was Andrew Charles Reynolds at 18:05 in Basildon..  However, Rebecca Carr states she believed the white car (Sierra) was a C registered plate, the VW Corrado was a J registered plate.

Well I was just thinking if the witnesses gave general descriptions rather than specifics eg white coupe, 2 doors with body kits etc.  But with Ford at Dagenham you would think most might be able to differentiate between a VW Corrado and a Ford Sierra Cosworth!
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 28, 2019, 09:50:39 AM
Fake number plates?

VW Corrado...

(https://i.imgur.com/lP7jARY.png?1)

Sierra Cosworth...

(https://i.imgur.com/bEklPzF.jpg)

Much prefer the Corrado to its replacement the Scirroco.
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 28, 2019, 10:05:11 AM
I totally agree, some of it sounds very implausible to say the least.. between the day of the murders and the first statements there must have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions going on..

I don't know whether all of the statements have made available but there appears to be nothing from Anna Whitehead or other key individuals..

You asked about Clare.. one of Pat Tate's acquaintances...  below

06/02/96 - STATEMENT of SUSAN ANNE CAREY

NAME: SUSAN ANNE CAREY
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 52 05031943

Who states:- This statement consisting of 003 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 060296
S A CAREY (SIGNED)

I live with my family in the Eastwood area. I have four daughters the youngest of whom is Claire. Claire is twenty three years old. On and off Claire lives at home but spends time with her boyfiend. At present Claire works at TGI Fridays at the Lakeside complex in West Thurrock, however she had previously worked in Southend at a restaurant called 'Sellars' and I believe that a Kim WEBBER was the owner.

It was through Claire's association with the restaurant and Kim that she became acquainted with Pat TATE. My first impression of Pat was only from what Claire told me and I first became aware of Claire actually seeing Pat was when he was at hospital having been shot in the arm.

I had only ever met Pat once when he came to the door at my house calling for Claire. I was aware that Pat also served some time is prison and that he would keep in contact with Claire when he got out. It was only a couple of months ago when he must have been released because I started getting phone calls from Pat.

He would be very polite and ask for Claire and more often than not she wasn't in and he would apologise for troubling me and ask that I leave a message for Claire to contact him. I approached Claire and one stage and voiced my concern because I didn't really want my daughter getting involved with him because of his past.

Claire assured me that she wasn't. The last time I had any contact with Pat TATE was on Wednesday 061295 when he phoned me at home around 1800 hours.

He had rung several times earlier in the day asking for Claire and on the final occasion Claire still wasn't back from work and Pat said that he had to go out for about half an hour but asked that I tell Claire to hang on as he would be back. Pat didn't sound concerned or worried on the phone.

The only other contact I had was later that evening from Claire herself sating she had been waiting outside Pat's for ages and he hadn't turned up so she was going to go back to her boyfriends'. When Pat last rang he sounded like he was at home because he said 'please tell her to hold on'.

He explained that he was thinking about leaving a note in his door for Claire but didn't know whether he would bother now. Whenever Pat rang up he would always introduce himself as Pat TATE and I had no doubts that it was not him.

S A CAREY SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 060296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Maybe the emphasis is too much on the 'Essex Boys' and the roles played by the 'Essex Girls' has been overlooked. 

Anyway according to the above Claire met Tate through working at Sellars restaurant in Southend owned by Kim Webber.  Is this the Kim Webber?

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5542525.leigh-ex-soccer-chiefs-jail-term-cut/

How many second hand car dealers do they need/want/have in Essex?   ?>)()<

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/961149.cop-gave-info-to-murder-suspect/

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1076957.former-officer-denies-being-corrupt/


Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 28, 2019, 10:10:47 AM
I assume this is 'Mad' Mick Bowman who provided the machine gun:

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/dewsbury-duo-who-opened-fire-at-drug-deal-house-jailed-for-32-years-1-5249480
Title: Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 28, 2019, 11:53:42 AM
14/03/96 - Statement of DONNA LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNA LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 013 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 140396
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the common law wife of Craig ROLFE whom had been my partner for seven years. I have been asked about Craig's association with Tony TUCKER and Pat TATE and their involvement with drug dealing, and the circumstances surround their deaths. Craig had been involved with TUCKER for approximately three or four years and was registered as a Director of TUCKER's security company running Nightclub doors.

This was in name only and I know that Craig never had any involvement in running the business. His association started as a result of TUCKER buying drugs from Craig. They then became more involved as time went on and they started doing drugs deals together. In early 000095 Craig was not being very active and was not completing many deals therefore he did not have much money.

He was being promised that a large deal was due which would provide him with plenty of money, in the mean time we were scraping to get by. I later learnt from Craig that a person called Mickey 'The Pilot' who I now know to be called Michael STEELE was a friend of Pat TATE who in turn was a friend of Tony TUCKER. STEELE I understood to be a pilot who brought drugs into the country, and I understood that he had been in prison for it.

Craig told me that STEELE was a ruthless person who really didn't think very much of other people. In early 000095 I was aware that TATE was in prison and I recall TUCKER and one other person, whose details I do not know, running around getting TATE's money together for him to finance the deal. I am fairly sure that John MCCARTHY had some of TATE's money.

Craig told me that this was happening and stated that STEELE was happy to continue bringing it in until they were all millionaires. I can not say when the deal took place but I can say that at that time I witnessed the change over of the drugs. Mickey STEEL drove to Longwood Stables in Dry Street, Basildon, Essex, where TUCKER had two horses. I arrived there with Craig and met Tony who was with his horses.

We waited for Mick to arrive which he did in a blue Toyota RAV4. Although I had remained in our car and I had my back to where Mickey STEELE had parked, I was able to look over my left shoulder towards the rear of his car. I saw STEELE take a large dark coloured kit bag, measuring approximately three feet in length by about twelve to fifteen inches in diameter, from the boot of his car.

By the way he was holding the bag it appeared to be very heavy. He handed it to TUCKER who put it in the boot of our car which was a Vauxhall Senator. Craig then got back into our car and drove to another location. Craig took the holdall out of the boot and took it to a "safe house' where all the drugs were stored. I went into the house with Craig who then placed the bag on the table.

He opened the bag up and I saw that it contained bars of brown cannabis resin which were all individually wrapped in a clear film. I was present when he checked that it was good quality by burning and smelling a sample and then counting the bars. I am unable to say how many bars there were. I have only met Mickey STEELE on a couple of occasions and that was only in passing.

I have not actually spoken to STEELE. On each occasion when I have seen him he has always made me very aware that he does not want me to look at him. The last deal which STEELE carried out for them was approximately two weeks after TATE was released from prison which was at the end of 001095. Craig told me that Mickey STEELE was arranging to bring in sixty thousand pounds worth of cannabis from abroad.

Craig put in seven thousand pounds, TUCKER put in twenty thousand pounds and TATE and a fourth person called Barry DOORMAN were putting in the remainder of the money. A couple of days before the cannabis was collected I went with Craig to TUCKER's home address in Fobbing, Essex, to hand him the seven thousand pounds which was in a Tesco's carrier bag. The money was handed to TUCKER who was in turn going to hand it to STEELE.

We were only at the house for about five minutes and as Craig and I were leaving and walking down the driveway towards our car, I saw Mickey STEELE walking up the driveway towards the house. He passed by us and nodded to Craig. He did not speak or acknowledge myself. STEELE had come from a white car which I believe he had been driving. I can not say what the car was but it was clean and had the appearance of an average family saloon.

There was a second male in the car who had short dark hair and appeared to be a little bit younger than STEELE. He appeared clean shaven but I did not take any further notice. We got into our vehicle which I believe was a Vauxhall Frontera which had been loaned to TATE by Barry DOORMAN, and left. A couple of days later Craig told me that STEELE had been arrested by Customs Officers whilst he was taking his boat from the water.

This was following him dropping the cannabis off at a safe point on the coastline about three miles away. That same day TATE was arrested during the early afternoon having crashed TUCKER's Porsche car in Southend. I was at work and would have finished at 1500 hours that day. Craig picked me up from work and told me what had happened to STEELE. About 1600 hours TUCKER phoned Craig on his mobile phone and told him about his car and what TATE had done to it.

About 1800 hours that day Craig and I drove to Southend Police Station to collect TATE. Once in the vehicle I became aware that TATE already knew about STEELE being arrested. He then used Craig's mobile phone to ring Jackie STEELE. He asked her if everything was 'safe'. I took it that it was as a result of TATE's manner and subsequently what he said to Craig. He said that it was all 'safe', I took this to mean that the drugs had not been found.

On this occasion I did hot know where the meeting between STEELE and the others was to take place but after a couple of days Craig brought his share of the cannabis round to our house in Chafford Hundred. Because the cannabis had already been sold on, the same day Craig and I took it up to the Golders Green area of North London where Craig handed it onto a coloured male called Gary.

No money was exchanged because the cannabis was what's known as 'laid on' Gary for him to sell and then pay Craig. The agreed amount per kilo worked out to be approximately ten thousand pounds for the lot. Already the others had placed their own share with other dealers but very quickly they started receiving phone calls telling them that the cannabis was very poor quality.

I learnt through Craig that TATE and TUCKER were very agitated because STEELE during this time was trying to push the price that he wanted up. In affect this was eating into their personal profit from the deal. They contacted STEELE and told him that they wanted their money back because the cannabis was rubbish. STEELE didn't want to take it back. TATE and TUCKER then started putting real pressure on STEELE to recover the money.

By pressure I mean through intimidation. I can not say exactly what they did, because I do not know, but I recall hearing conversations they had with STEELE on the phone where they were renting and raving at one another and pacing up and down. I understand that STEELE finally agreed to return the cannabis and get their money back for them. TATE in a fit of temper about the whole affair smashed each slab before it was returned.

STEELE had told them that a parcel the same size had been picked up by mistake and that's how the problem had come about. I am not certain but I think that on this occasion STEELE had to collect the cannabis from TUCKER's home address in order to return it. STEELE arranged to hand the money back to them on the continent. He was going to return the goods to his suppliers and then take the money to a pre-arranged location where he was to meet Craig, TUCKER and TATE.

The day they were going to meet coincided with Tony TUCKER's birthday which was the 171100. His girlfriend, Anna, had pre-booked a surprise night in a London hotel prior the trip to collect the money being made. Therefore Tony was not going to go. They wanted a group of people to go over in order that the money could be divided up to bring it back into this country.

Craig asked me to go but I refused because I was not happy about getting involved and didn't want to go. The eventual party consisted of Barry DOORMAN and his wife who went in their own car. Pat TATE and Craig with three girls. Donna GARWOOD, Liz FLETCHER and Gaynor HAYZER. They travelled in the Range Rover and left via Harwich. Craig did tell me where they went to but I can not remember the location or where they stayed.

I know that they stayed overnight in a hotel and were met by Mickey STEELE. I was told that he met TATE and they went into a separate room. They returned the next day with the money. Whilst all this was going on I was told that STEELE was promising TATE that he had a 'big job' lined up for him. Craig told me that STEELE had approached TATE and asked him to nick someone elses gear from them.

I understood that STEELE had been asked by a London based drugs firm to import 30 kilos of Charlie (Cocaine) and I believe that he was going to bring it in by plane from Holland. He had told Pat TATE that he was going to be given fifty thousand pounds as an up front payment to take to Holland and he was going to bring the Charlie back in company with a member of the London firm.

The idea was that Pat TATE and Tony TUCKER would rob the firm of the Charlie when it arrived over here. STEELE had stated that he wanted to share it between them and had told the firm that he was going to land near to Clacton. Craig told me that STEELE was planning to actually land in South Essex but I never knew exactly where this was likely to be. Craig, Tony and Pat had previously obtained a machine gun from a man called Mad Mick BOWMAN and the details of this are subject of a previous statement.

TATE and TUCKER were going to use the gun on the man from the firm in order to take the Charlie. I knew that they had made sure the gun worked but I did not know how far they were planning to go when they robbed the firm. STEELE was going to land the plane and TATE and TUCKER were then going to take the complete load. It was going to be split, eventually, ten kilos each, and was going to be taken to John MCCARTHY.

Craig told me that MCCARTHY was going to pay them nearly one million pounds for the load which was for TATE or TUCKER to divide. Not long after Craig had told me about this he told me that TATE and TUCKER had decided that he was going to drive the load away once it had been taken and go to MCCARTHY'S with it. They had told Craig that they intended to rip STEELE off by cutting 3 kilos of the Cocaine into ten kilos of impure.

This would have resulted in TATE and TUCKER having twenty seven kilos between them. The remaining three kilos was going to be taken to Mick BOWMAN and he was going to cut it for them. I do not know what the arrangements were to get the three kilos to BOWMAN or to get the ten kilos of impure back to STEELE. By this time I was getting very worried by Craig's involvement and told him that I didn't want him have any part in it.

He told me that STEELE didn't know that he was going to be driving and he convinced me that he wasn't as heavily involved as the other two in what was going to happen. He also talked about the money which was likely to be coming their way and how that would enable us to go ahead with whatever plans we wanted. I realised that I wasn't going to be able to talk him out of it and, albeit I really didn't want him to go through with it, I gave up in the end.

I believed that by this he was in too deep. Craig told me that the money had been paid to Mickey STEELE who had taken it to Holland. The weather had changed and there was now snow on the ground. Craig told me this was causing them delay and they were waiting for it to clear. On the day of the murder I was working as normal and was due to finish at 1500 hours. That evening Tony TUCKER and his girlfriend Anna, Craig and I and Pat TATE and a girlfriend named Clare, were all going to the Global Net Cafe restaurant in Romford.

We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Graig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft. Craig mentioned to me that they had been to or were going to, I can't remember which, to the T.G.I. Fridays restaurant at Lakeside. I later found out that this had been TATE, TUCKER, and Craig and a person railed Peter CUTHBERT.

I do not know why they met or what was discussed. I left work at 1500 hours that day and went home. The meal at Romford was booked for 2000 hours. I was busy wrapping Christmas presents when Craig returned home with our daughter Georgie. We were at home together for about an hour and a half. Craig told me