Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Back on topic, please.

Members are asked to refrain from questioning why other members post here.  In my opinion that is no-one's business but their own.  TY

Fair enough, I apologise for any offence I may have caused. I don't want to be confrontational but boy its hard.

[Lace]

The FBI accepted Eddie's competence as did a US judge. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Why did Grime say that dogs trained on pig carcass cannot be classed as cadaver dogs?

What did Grime tell the FBI about Eddies training?   That he was an 'Enhanced'  cadaver dog?   Well he shouldn't have according to him.

[barrier]

Why did Grime say that dogs trained on pig carcass cannot be classed as cadaver dogs?

What did Grime tell the FBI about Eddies training?   That he was an 'Enhanced'  cadaver dog?   Well he shouldn't have according to him.

Enhanced was after training with human remains,not hard to understand.

[Brietta]

Fair enough, I apologise for any offence I may have caused. I don't want to be confrontational but boy its hard.

Be as confrontational as you like within the rules and it is a wee while since we had a dedicated dog thread on the forum and thanks to you it seems we've obviously been missing one.

[G-Unit]

That's in the US... That's irrelevant

It may be irrelevant to you. I think it's a feather in the cap of the UK that one of their police dog trainers/handlers was so highly thought of by the FBI.

[G-Unit]

Bearing in mind that in North America there are States where K9 trainers are allowed to have access to human remains for training purposes and the dogs are trained solely on human remains and residual scent.

Even so there are stringent criteria in place for handlers and their dogs training and expertise before the handlers are allowed to testify about alerts in a case involving residual scent.

British dogs are trained using pigs.

I think Misty may have touched on the theme http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11174.msg568943#msg568943 but I've not yet had time to read the link she provided at  http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf

Clever Eddie was able to impress in North America as he scored very highly in their tests, despite his early training on piglets.

[G-Unit]

It makes you question whether Eddie could alert to human cadaver though doesn't it?   In my opinion the only thing he could alert to was blood,  and unlike Keela he could alert to the scent of blood that had been on something which was then taken away.

No it doesn't. Eddie demonstrated his competence and once again, your opinion is irrelevant.

[G-Unit]

Why did Grime say that dogs trained on pig carcass cannot be classed as cadaver dogs?

What did Grime tell the FBI about Eddies training?   That he was an 'Enhanced'  cadaver dog?   Well he shouldn't have according to him.

Did he?

[barrier]

Be as confrontational as you like within the rules and it is a wee while since we had a dedicated dog thread on the forum and thanks to you it seems we've obviously been missing one.

Quite right,back to the thread title,I think it is evidence as can be seen in the recent docu talked about regarding M Fleming's murder,the handler described the alerts,the defence didn't question the veracity merely pointing out forensics would be showing their evidence,which it turned out could not confirm or either deny evidence of human remains but of remains.Whether the jury took this into consideration is only known to them.

[Mr Gray]

Did he?

Yes

[Mr Gray]

Referring to the title of the thread.
The alerts have been admitted in two cases in Scotland... I maintain the SCCRC reviewed the evidence and said the alerts should not have been admitted.
Some posters believe the alerts, were admitted in merit... I think if they had been challenged they would not have been admitted... That's about it

[pathfinder73]

It was stated that the Police Dogs are trained on Dead Pig so those bits of bones could be Pig Bones.  Voila.

Only in your dreams because a pig is not missing!

[Mr Gray]

Clever Eddie was able to impress in North America as he scored very highly in their tests, despite his early training on piglets.

Any cadaver dog should score highly in simple tests.

[pathfinder73]

In my opinion the reason for reliable cadaver dog handlers couching the dogs' findings in caveats is that it is impossible to be certain to what the dogs are alerting outwith a controlled environment and crime scenes do not come into that category.

It is perfectly possible the murderers had barbecued a pig in their fire pit ... that certainly would have provoked an alert from any British trained dog.

More utter nonsense!

[Mr Gray]

More utter nonsense!

There, a lot if it about