Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?

[kizzy]

The ones that were found to be “inconclusive” in relation to a match to MM’s DNA when tested in the UK. Hopefully someone will take Perlin’s offer up now we have a “new suspect”

Took the words right out my fingers - you would have thought it would have been took up.

A surly if not done - they would have to do it now, with a suspect.

[Eleanor]

Took the words right out my fingers - you would have thought it would have been took up.

A surly if not done - they would have to do it now, with a suspect.

There were No Body Fluids found.

[pathfinder73]

You will know there is a cover up if there aren't new tests on crime scene evidence.

[kizzy]

There were No Body Fluids found.

But they had DNA

[Eleanor]

But they had DNA

What DNA?  Could we have a Cite please?

[kizzy]

What DNA?  Could we have a Cite please?

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

[Jean-Pierre]

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

Hi Kizzy.  Sorry you may have to help me out a bit  here.  The file you provided - what is it showing in terms of The DNA found. 

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Granted I should have used the term human cellular material rather than bodily fluids (but that's another debate). I seriously can't believe any posters here are oblivious to the DNA evidence tested by the UK Forensic Science Service. This is from an email before the full report:

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

There is no evidence to support the view that Madeline MCCann contributed DNA to the swab 3B.

A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

Why - ...

Well lets look at the question that is being asked

"Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab "

It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in Madeline's profile are not unique to her, it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeline's profile are also present within the the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included. it's important to stress that 50% of Madeline's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely, we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.

Therefore, we cannot answer the question: is the match genuine or is it a chance match.

This inconclusive analysis is exactly why the evidence should be tested by Perlin who has reportedly already helped the UK Police and claims he may be able to reach a more conclusive analysis with better scientific methods / equipment.

[Mr Gray]

Granted I should have used the term human cellular material rather than bodily fluids (but that's another debate). I seriously can't believe any posters here are oblivious to the DNA evidence tested by the UK Forensic Science Service. This is from an email before the full report:

This inconclusive analysis is exactly why the evidence should be tested by Perlin who has already helped the UK Police and claims he may be able to reach a more conclusive analysis with better scientific methods / equipment.

Could you tell us when he has already helped the Uk police

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

From the PJ....

In order to carry out the determined by the 4.a Brigada of Departamento of Investiga?o Criminal of Policia Judici?ia, concerning the process number 201/07.OGALGS, between 15:00h of 4th August, 2007, and 06:30h of 5th August, 2007, were recovered the following evidences in the living room of the apartment 5A, Ocean Club Villas, Praia da Luz, Lagos, Portugal, where it is possible may have occurred a crime of homicide, by the Crime Scene Investigators Fernando Jos?da Silva Viegas and Bruno Jorge Possid?io Mendes Antunes:-

I A - Stain on the floor recovered with a Dry swab;
1 B - Stain on the floor recovered with swab with distilled water;
2A - Stain on the floor recovered with a Dry swab;
2B - Stain on the floor recovered with swab with distilled water:
3A - Stain on the floor recovered with a Dry swab;
3B - Stain on the floor recovered with swab with distilled water;
4A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
4B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
5A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
5B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
6A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
6B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
7A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
7B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
8A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
8B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
9A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
9B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
10A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
10B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;



Page 2207 :

11IA - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
11 B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
12A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
12B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
13A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab;
13B - Stain on the wall recovered with swab with distilled water;
14A - Stain on the back of the sofa recovered with a Dry swab;
14B - Stain on the back of the sofa recovered with swab with distilled water;
15A - Stain on the back of the sofa recovered with a Dry swab;
15B - Stain on the back of the sofa recovered with swab with distilled water;
16 - Blue curtain;
16B - White curtain behind blue curtain and armband.

All these evidences were delivered to the Forensic Science Laboratory - Birmingham Laboratory, Priory House, Gooch Street North, Birmingham, B56QQ, on the 7th August, 2007.-

Birmingham, 7th August, 2007

Who delivers - Illegible, (to me), handwritten Signature.

Who received - S NIBLETTS, FSS Birmingham ( plus handwritten Signature)

Dated 07 August 2007

I understand some of this evidence has since been destroyed (but not all of it). Surely if as is now a growing consensus that Madeleine is dead then all the more reason for re-analysis. Perhaps there's a link to some of the human DNA and the German criminal, perhaps there is evidence that a death occurred in the appartment. Let's have the DNA analysed again. The dog alert is suggestive that some of this DNA comes from blood cells.

[Jean-Pierre]

Thanks for this.  That’s helpful even in an ‘elimination’ way - so no evidential dna found then.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Thanks for this.  That’s helpful even in an ‘elimination’ way - so no evidential dna found then.

Quite the opposite. Where the blood and cadaver dogs alerted human cellular material was collected. Dr Perlin has offered to analyse these samples and believes he may well be able to obtain some conclusive information. This offer must be taken up imo.

[Jean-Pierre]

Quite the opposite. Where the blood and cadaver dogs alerted human cellular material was collected. Dr Perlin has offered to analyse these samples and believes he may well be able to obtain some conclusive information. This offer must be taken up imo.

I’m inclined to agree - the statistical technique does seem to be a new development.  So thank you for raising this.

[Brietta]

Quite the opposite. Where the blood and cadaver dogs alerted human cellular material was collected. Dr Perlin has offered to analyse these samples and believes he may well be able to obtain some conclusive information. This offer must be taken up imo.

Please give a list of "human cellular material" excluding the Renault key fob, exactly where it was found and which dog alerted.  Thank you

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

There were No Body Fluids found.

Granted “human cellular” material was found (where the blood and cadaver dogs alerted). Furthermore Some of the samples were taken from “stains” reportedly. Stains generally implies the source is some kind of fluid.