Author Topic: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?  (Read 166186 times)

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Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #870 on: June 13, 2020, 09:49:45 PM »

What Eddie alerted to wasn't determined.

He alerts to cadaver odour or human blood. In some areas where he alerted human cellular material was found ("stains" are referred to - though the FSS say they couldn't say from which body fluid the sample(s) came from. Where Eddie alerted and there was no blood then (according to forensic science journal research) we can be 90 - 95% sure the alert is to cadaver odour.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #871 on: June 13, 2020, 10:02:48 PM »
He alerts to cadaver odour or human blood. In some areas where he alerted human cellular material was found ("stains" are referred to - though the FSS say they couldn't say from which body fluid the sample(s) came from. Where Eddie alerted and there was no blood then (according to forensic science journal research) we can be 90 - 95% sure the alert is to cadaver odour.

That isnt true you are under a misaprehension. First Keela only alerts to blood dried in situ wheras eddie alerts to blood that has not dried in situ....see Grimes witness statemnet..... so eddie alerts to blood that keela may not alert too. Secondly we simply don't know how accurate the alerts are. The dogs have never been properly tested in the field. Do you really beleive the debacle that was the alert to cuddle cat is reliable.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #872 on: June 13, 2020, 10:06:40 PM »
That isnt true you are under a misaprehension. First Keela only alerts to blood dried in situ wheras eddie alerts to blood that has not dried in situ....see Grimes witness statemnet..... so eddie alerts to blood that keela may not alert too. Secondly we simply don't know how accurate the alerts are. The dogs have never been properly tested in the field. Do you really beleive the debacle that was the alert to cuddle cat is reliable.

I believe in the forensic science journal research into the accuracy of such dogs. If they "yap all over the place" as someone suggested the alerts wouldn't be confined to items only belonging to one family in this case.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #873 on: June 13, 2020, 10:13:32 PM »
I believe in the forensic science journal research into the accuracy of such dogs. If they "yap all over the place" as someone suggested the alerts wouldn't be confined to items only belonging to one family in this case.

perhasp you can link us to the science journal that sstates this. there is  avery simple raeson the dogs only alerted to things McCann and that is the dog handler. Eddie trotted straight past the renault a she did the other cars...but he was called back . He wasnt called back to the other cars. he showed no interest again in the renault but wa scalled back again ...when he alerted.
If you read the files the PJ found it strange a similar thing happenned in the apartment. Eddie alerting to places he initially showed no interest in. In the other apartments when eddie showed no interest he was sent to the next apartment, not told to have another go.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #874 on: June 13, 2020, 10:16:39 PM »
perhasp you can link us to the science journal that sstates this. there is  avery simple raeson the dogs only alerted to things McCann and that is the dog handler. Eddie trotted straight past the renault a she did the other cars...but he was called back . He wasnt called back to the other cars. he showed no interest again in the renault but wa scalled back again ...when he alerted.
If you read the files the PJ found it strange a similar thing happenned in the apartment. Eddie alerting to places he initially showed no interest in. In the other apartments when eddie showed no interest he was sent to the next apartment, not told to have another go.

I don't share your opinion. I've watched all the searches. I believe Martin Grime acted professionally. I have already shared the forensic science research journals with you before.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #875 on: June 13, 2020, 10:30:33 PM »
I don't share your opinion. I've watched all the searches. I believe Martin Grime acted professionally. I have already shared the forensic science research journals with you before.

i'm not staing opinion i'm staing fact..car ...eddie called back twice....apartmnet ...according to Pj ...similar actions.
ther have never been any tests to see how the dogs alert in the field. There was one study..on explosives  as i recall ...where dog handlers were asked to locate two areas in a hose wher eexplosives had been. several dogs alerted. in fact there were never any explosives in the house . the handlers cued the dogs.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #876 on: June 13, 2020, 10:39:20 PM »
i'm not staing opinion i'm staing fact..car ...eddie called back twice....apartmnet ...according to Pj ...similar actions.
ther have never been any tests to see how the dogs alert in the field. There was one study..on explosives  as i recall ...where dog handlers were asked to locate two areas in a hose wher eexplosives had been. several dogs alerted. in fact there were never any explosives in the house . the handlers cued the dogs.

That wasn't the journal research I shared with you.

I've seen the videos and I believe MG acted professionally. If you seriously believe he was attempting to pervert the course of justice I suggest you make a complaint to the appropriate authorities.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #877 on: June 13, 2020, 11:04:34 PM »
That wasn't the journal research I shared with you.

I've seen the videos and I believe MG acted professionally. If you seriously believe he was attempting to pervert the course of justice I suggest you make a complaint to the appropriate authorities.

I dont believe he was as Ive explained before... I think he was desperately trying to find some useful evidence....nothing wrong with that...but he didnt find any. .....and hes explained the alerts have no evidential reliability...

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #878 on: June 13, 2020, 11:54:05 PM »
That isnt true you are under a misaprehension. First Keela only alerts to blood dried in situ wheras eddie alerts to blood that has not dried in situ....see Grimes witness statemnet..... so eddie alerts to blood that keela may not alert too. Secondly we simply don't know how accurate the alerts are. The dogs have never been properly tested in the field. Do you really beleive the debacle that was the alert to cuddle cat is reliable.

What are you on about? Both dogs alert to blood.

A search by the EVRD of the house resulted in small blood stains being alert indicated and forensically confirmed as her blood.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #879 on: June 14, 2020, 12:00:16 AM »
What are you on about? Both dogs alert to blood.

A search by the EVRD of the house resulted in small blood stains being alert indicated and forensically confirmed as her blood.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
I'm qoting from Grimes statement... If you don't understand it that's your problem.  Keela only alerts to blood dried in situ.. So an alert by only Eddie could still be blood

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #880 on: June 14, 2020, 12:07:37 AM »
I'm qoting from Grimes statement... If you don't understand it that's your problem.  Keela only alerts to blood dried in situ.. So an alert by only Eddie could still be blood

But then you'd expect to find the said blood - plus you'd have to explain why Keela missed it.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #881 on: June 14, 2020, 12:13:20 AM »
I'm qoting from Grimes statement... If you don't understand it that's your problem.  Keela only alerts to blood dried in situ.. So an alert by only Eddie could still be blood

Eddie finds the source of scent and that includes blood. All blood is dried in situ months later when they come to investigate a suspected murder crime scene. Keela only alerts to blood so that is why she is used after Eddie to confirm if there is blood. No Keela alert they rule out blood as being the scent. The other scent Eddie alerts to is cadaver.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 12:17:25 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #882 on: June 14, 2020, 10:07:17 AM »
Eddie finds the source of scent and that includes blood. All blood is dried in situ months later when they come to investigate a suspected murder crime scene. Keela only alerts to blood so that is why she is used after Eddie to confirm if there is blood. No Keela alert they rule out blood as being the scent. The other scent Eddie alerts to is cadaver.

All blood is not dried in situ...you are wrong. For someone.. along with Billy....who continually go on about the alerts you dont seem to have read what Grime says in the files. Do I need to quote it for you. I would have thought after all these years you would be aware of what Grime says...unfortunately you are not.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #883 on: June 14, 2020, 10:13:11 AM »
All blood is not dried in situ.

What do you mean? That some stays fluid rather than coagulating??? Or that it dries somewhere then moves to a different site? Or that it could be suspended in another fluid???

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #884 on: June 14, 2020, 10:19:03 AM »
What do you mean? That some stays fluid rather than coagulating??? Or that it dries somewhere then moves to a different site? Or that it could be suspended in another fluid???

Its not what I mean..its what Grime means..its in the files with the statements  he gave to the PJ. As ive said if you are going to continually bang on about the alerts you could at least read and undersatnd what Grime says...as you are having to ask me...its clear you havent