Author Topic: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?  (Read 81102 times)

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Offline Davel

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2190 on: June 22, 2021, 08:50:47 AM »
What you know is immaterial legally if you can't prove it (as you seem to have discovered). You would risk being sued if you publicly stated that X was a thief. If CB is charged and tried, it can be argued that his trial is unfair because the prosecutor declared him guilty before he was arrested.

You are missing the point.. I would be happy to be sued... You seem to have forgotten all you knew about libel laws... And you are forming an opinion without knowing what evidence I have.
As for CB and his POI.. imo it would depend on how strong the evidence was. Could the same argument be made for the Greek suspect.. No... Because the evidence is si strong
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 09:29:35 AM by Davel »

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2191 on: June 22, 2021, 09:14:55 AM »
Oh?  Why not?  Isn’t publicly accusing named individuals of carrying out a serious crime exactly what private citizen Gonalo Amaral did, and aren’t you convinced he was perfectly entitled to do so?  So kindly explain why he can and Davel can’t.
bumping for G-Unit.
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2192 on: June 22, 2021, 09:16:39 AM »
What you know is immaterial legally if you can't prove it (as you seem to have discovered). You would risk being sued if you publicly stated that X was a thief. If CB is charged and tried, it can be argued that his trial is unfair because the prosecutor declared him guilty before he was arrested.
Did Amaral prove the McCanns hid Madeleine’s body?
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2193 on: June 22, 2021, 09:41:22 AM »
Looks like I've finally made it onto G-Unit's "Ignore" list.  @)(++(*
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Davel

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2194 on: June 22, 2021, 09:42:47 AM »
This is what Harrison, the UK's national search advisor, recommended;

Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

Most of the arguments have focussed on the difference between 'evidential' and 'merely intelligence'. Those who wish to dismiss the dog alerts have concentrated on emphasising that alerts such as the ones to the McCann's clothes are not evidential. The argument is that they can therefore be ignored.

I argue that those alerts are still useful. Intelligence isn't something that can or should be ignored and what the alerts to the clothing tell us is that they are contaminated by the target scent. That needs to be accepted and explained.

Ive just noticed this and it needs a response. The alert to the clothes does not mean they are contaminated by target scent .. Your claim that this is a fact is wrong.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2195 on: June 22, 2021, 09:50:48 AM »
bumping for G-Unit.

I'm not interested in arguing about McCann v Amaral, I'm discussing the likelyhood of Wolters breaching Brueckner's human rights.

England - good effort

Offline Davel

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2196 on: June 22, 2021, 09:53:05 AM »
I'm not interested in arguing about McCann v Amaral, I'm discussing the likelyhood of Wolters breaching Brueckner's human rights.

Its.been settled... You think he does havve a case... I think he doesnt.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2197 on: June 22, 2021, 10:02:56 AM »
Why do you think I can't ..... You are quite wrong

What I'm pointing out is its possible to have proof of guilt but not be able to take it to court
"Can" or "can't"?
Moderation
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2198 on: June 22, 2021, 10:09:27 AM »
I'm not interested in arguing about McCann v Amaral, I'm discussing the likelyhood of Wolters breaching Brueckner's human rights.
I'm really not surprised you don't want to talk about Amaral breaching the McCanns' human rights whilst at the same time making the identical same case for Bruckner against Wolters.  it's because your position is IMO entirely contradictory. 
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline G-Unit

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2199 on: June 22, 2021, 10:33:54 AM »
I'm really not surprised you don't want to talk about Amaral breaching the McCanns' human rights whilst at the same time making the identical same case for Bruckner against Wolters.  it's because your position is IMO entirely contradictory.

Amaral was not a public official, but Wolters is, and that's an important difference.
England - good effort

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2200 on: June 22, 2021, 10:42:18 AM »
Amaral was not a public official, but Wolters is, and that's an important difference.
Then as Davel is also not a public official why did you write this to him?

"You must surely realise that you can't publicly name this person and state that they are a thief?"

Either as a private citizen like Amaral (and Davel) you can't (as you have stated above) or you can (as you have also suggested above!)  See the problem now?
ANGER MAKES US AWARE OF INJUSTICE
We often experience anger when we are denied rights or when faced with insults, disrespect, injustice, or exploitation. Anger serves as an internal guidance system that indicates something is not quite right, that someone has treated us unjustly or unfairly. Anger helps communicate to others: “You’d better treat me fairly; otherwise, you’ll pay a high cost.” On a global level, standing up for a lack of fairness can prevent people from taking advantage of others. This type of anger can bring about positive change in society and increase the social cost of misbehaving.
The value of anger https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/value-of-anger-16-reasons-its-good-to-get-angry-0313175

Offline Davel

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2201 on: June 22, 2021, 11:09:36 AM »
The point im making is Wolters may have evidence that proves beyond doubt CBs guilt but not evidence that he can guarantee a conviction... Which is what  I have in my case so I know its possible

Offline G-Unit

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2202 on: June 22, 2021, 11:20:27 AM »
Then as Davel is also not a public official why did you write this to him?

"You must surely realise that you can't publicly name this person and state that they are a thief?"

Either as a private citizen like Amaral (and Davel) you can't (as you have stated above) or you can (as you have also suggested above!)  See the problem now?

There's a difference between Amaral and Davel too. Amaral's opinion was based on facts recorded in the PJ files and publicly available. I don't know what Davel's opinion is based on.
England - good effort

Offline Davel

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2203 on: June 22, 2021, 11:24:09 AM »
There's a difference between Amaral and Davel too. Amaral's opinion was based on facts recorded in the PJ files and publicly available. I don't know what Davel's opinion is based on.
Amarals opinion was not based on facts..
The point im making is its possible to know for certain someone is guilty but not be able to orove it in a court of law... That is a fact.... And perhaps that applies to Wolters

Offline Davel

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #2204 on: June 22, 2021, 11:31:47 AM »
My opinion..

Wolters may have evifence that proved CB murdered Maddie... But this evidence is not certain to be enough to convict. Wolters wants as strong a case as possible to ensre a guilty verdict. He is in no rush.. CB is going nowhere. In Germany it's  customary according to Wolters not to charge until shortly before a trial... Thats why everything Wolters has daid makrs sense imo and he has not contraficted himself once