Brexit

[barrier]

I voted Remain, and have been in numerous Remainer versus Leaver discussions / arguments.  It is quite clear to me that in essence the only thing Brexit was intended to achieve was to stick two fingers up to Europe, borne out of a distrust and dislike of the EU, and of our neighbours’ conduct during WWII and for that mythical holy grail of “taking back control “.  It has certainly succeeded in the first objective, the second objective is less easy to pin down IMo but I suspect the majority of Brexiteers feel that this objective has also been successfully delivered.  And that’s it basically.  No Brexiteer cares if we are worse off as a result, or if trade declines, or if the Union is dissolved, they really REALLY don’t care.  It’s 100% ideological.

As is most policies from the governments of the day. Like or loath the tories and Johnson, he was elected to deliver brexit, he did, seems from the covid vaccination argument it was a wise decision. Going forward the economy looks to be on a steady course. Furlough will have to paid for, but the debt from ww2 took until 2006 to be paid, so long term isn't a problem.Seems like Brexit upsets the French the most.

[G-Unit]

As is most policies from the governments of the day. Like or loath the tories and Johnson, he was elected to deliver brexit, he did, seems from the covid vaccination argument it was a wise decision. Going forward the economy looks to be on a steady course. Furlough will have to paid for, but the debt from ww2 took until 2006 to be paid, so long term isn't a problem.Seems like Brexit upsets the French the most.

We certainly benefitted from being out of the EU when it came to Covid. We were able to forge ahead and organise buying the vaccines without having to wait and are now way ahead of those who are still in the EU.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/05/07/covid-19-vaccinations-in-europe-which-countries-are-leading-the-way

[Carana]

We certainly benefitted from being out of the EU when it came to Covid. We were able to forge ahead and organise buying the vaccines without having to wait and are now way ahead of those who are still in the EU.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/05/07/covid-19-vaccinations-in-europe-which-countries-are-leading-the-way

I don't find the situation clear-cut. Yes, the UK got a large number of doses before the EU, but it was still a member back in December, 2020. Any EU member was free to negotiate their own contract, but from what I can gather, most countries preferred to negotiate a collective deal to get the best price, whereas the UK decided to go it alone and pay a higher price.



EU law, not Brexit, sped up UK access to Covid vaccine
A closer look at a British minister’s claims that Brexit enabled the UK to be first to offer a vaccine shows that Britain has in fact relied on an EU law, France's public-service media explains
4 December 2020
By Liv Rowland

The UK’s health minister claimed in a radio interview that “thanks to Brexit” the UK will be first to start Covid vaccinations.

According to Matt Hancock, Brexit allowed the British regulator to take the authorisation decision so as not to “go at the pace of the Europeans, who are moving a little bit more slowly”.

However it is in fact due to European directive 2001/83/EC, transposed into UK law eight years ago as regulation 174 on medicines, that the fast authorisation was possible.

The approved vaccine is the same Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine that is expected to be shortly available in France. Being made in Germany and Belgium, it is going through a process of authorisation by the European Medicines Agency.

However the UK has bypassed this stage by relying on an EU law which allows a member state to temporarily authorise use of a non-approved medicine in a health emergency.

The use of an EU rule is confirmed on gov.uk, which stated last month: “Until the end of December, and as part of the transition period, vaccines must be authorised via the European Medicines Agency and that authorisation will automatically be valid in the UK.

"However, if a suitable COVID-19 vaccine candidate, with strong supporting evidence of safety, quality and effectiveness from clinical trials becomes available before the end of the transition period, EU legislation which we have implemented via Regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations allows the MHRA [UK medicines regulator] to temporarily authorise the supply of a medicine or vaccine, based on public health need.”

The discrepancy was picked up by French state media FranceInfo, which said that “the British medicines agency could have taken its decision to authorise a vaccine against Covid-19, whether or not the country was a member of the EU".

Until December 31, due to the Brexit transition period, the UK must continue to follow all EU laws.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Brexit/EU-law-not-Brexit-sped-up-UK-access-to-Covid-vaccine

More (other) details here:
Brexit Britain's victory over the EU on Covid vaccination is not what it seems
Jean Quatremer
Sun 14 Feb 2021 17.12 GMT
https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/brexit-britain-eu-covid-vaccination-fiasco

[Carana]

As is most policies from the governments of the day. Like or loath the tories and Johnson, he was elected to deliver brexit, he did, seems from the covid vaccination argument it was a wise decision. Going forward the economy looks to be on a steady course. Furlough will have to paid for, but the debt from ww2 took until 2006 to be paid, so long term isn't a problem.Seems like Brexit upsets the French the most.

IMO, using the rollout of a Covid vaccine as an example of success to justify Brexit is more spin than fact.

Clearly the economy will pick up (or at least some parts of it), but compared to when? And will it be easy to distinguish between the negative effects of Covid and Brexit?

My crystal ball tells me that most things negative will be attributed to Covid and / or the nasty EU (as usual).

Some businesses will have a double whammy to deal with.

Example: A restaurant I know had to (temporarily) close due to Covid. Hopefully, they've been entitled to some sort of relief during this time. However, the restaurant specialized in Italian cuisine (using authentic Italian ingredients: different types of Italian dried meats, cheeses, etc). The hassle and cost of importing the ingredients post-Brexit has made them give up. Permanently.

[G-Unit]

I don't find the situation clear-cut. Yes, the UK got a large number of doses before the EU, but it was still a member back in December, 2020. Any EU member was free to negotiate their own contract, but from what I can gather, most countries preferred to negotiate a collective deal to get the best price, whereas the UK decided to go it alone and pay a higher price.



EU law, not Brexit, sped up UK access to Covid vaccine
A closer look at a British minister’s claims that Brexit enabled the UK to be first to offer a vaccine shows that Britain has in fact relied on an EU law, France's public-service media explains
4 December 2020
By Liv Rowland

The UK’s health minister claimed in a radio interview that “thanks to Brexit” the UK will be first to start Covid vaccinations.

According to Matt Hancock, Brexit allowed the British regulator to take the authorisation decision so as not to “go at the pace of the Europeans, who are moving a little bit more slowly”.

However it is in fact due to European directive 2001/83/EC, transposed into UK law eight years ago as regulation 174 on medicines, that the fast authorisation was possible.

The approved vaccine is the same Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine that is expected to be shortly available in France. Being made in Germany and Belgium, it is going through a process of authorisation by the European Medicines Agency.

However the UK has bypassed this stage by relying on an EU law which allows a member state to temporarily authorise use of a non-approved medicine in a health emergency.

The use of an EU rule is confirmed on gov.uk, which stated last month: “Until the end of December, and as part of the transition period, vaccines must be authorised via the European Medicines Agency and that authorisation will automatically be valid in the UK.

"However, if a suitable COVID-19 vaccine candidate, with strong supporting evidence of safety, quality and effectiveness from clinical trials becomes available before the end of the transition period, EU legislation which we have implemented via Regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations allows the MHRA [UK medicines regulator] to temporarily authorise the supply of a medicine or vaccine, based on public health need.”

The discrepancy was picked up by French state media FranceInfo, which said that “the British medicines agency could have taken its decision to authorise a vaccine against Covid-19, whether or not the country was a member of the EU".

Until December 31, due to the Brexit transition period, the UK must continue to follow all EU laws.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Brexit/EU-law-not-Brexit-sped-up-UK-access-to-Covid-vaccine

More (other) details here:
Brexit Britain's victory over the EU on Covid vaccination is not what it seems
Jean Quatremer
Sun 14 Feb 2021 17.12 GMT
https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/brexit-britain-eu-covid-vaccination-fiasco

However it happened, the fact remains that the UK was able to get a head start. Obviously the French would be reluctant to applaud the fact that our government's decisions left the EU eating our dust.

[barrier]

IMO, using the rollout of a Covid vaccine as an example of success to justify Brexit is more spin than fact.

Clearly the economy will pick up (or at least some parts of it), but compared to when? And will it be easy to distinguish between the negative effects of Covid and Brexit?

My crystal ball tells me that most things negative will be attributed to Covid and / or the nasty EU (as usual).

Some businesses will have a double whammy to deal with.

Example: A restaurant I know had to (temporarily) close due to Covid. Hopefully, they've been entitled to some sort of relief during this time. However, the restaurant specialized in Italian cuisine (using authentic Italian ingredients: different types of Italian dried meats, cheeses, etc). The hassle and cost of importing the ingredients post-Brexit has made them give up. Permanently.

The success is the vaccine, imo its not spin.

[Carana]

The success is the vaccine, imo its not spin.

I agree that the vaccine is a success (as are most of the other vaccines) and the rollout was indeed faster in the UK than in the EU. However, I still don't see how that qualifies as a so-called successful outcome of Brexit. Mystified over that one.

[barrier]

I agree that the vaccine is a success (as are most of the other vaccines) and the rollout was indeed faster in the UK than in the EU. However, I still don't see how that qualifies as a so-called successful outcome of Brexit. Mystified over that one.

Would we have the same roll out if still tied to the EU.

[G-Unit]

Would we have the same roll out if still tied to the EU.

No, we would have faced the delays that EU members suffered.

[Carana]

Would we have the same roll out if still tied to the EU.

AFAIK yes, reread the article posted above.

[Carana]

No, we would have faced the delays that EU members suffered.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-brexit-did-not-speed-up-uk-vaccine-authorisation

[Carana]

Government seeking adviser with a track record of being economical with the truth. A wild imagination would be an asset.

I can think of someone who fits the bill, except he currently has a different job and wouldn't qualify as "outside input".

Government to hire adviser to identify post-Brexit benefits
Author Picture Icon

Jonathon Read
Published: 8:42 AM May 18, 2021

Boris Johnson's administration is recruiting an external adviser to identify new opportunities following Brexit to demonstrate the benefits of the UK's departure from the European Union.

Almost five years on from the Brexit referendum result, the Tory government continues to struggle to demonstrate the tangible benefits of leaving the EU.

It has set former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith in charge of how Britain can reshape the economy, but his task force is yet to publicly report back with suggestions.

Now Brexit negotiator David Frost - now tasked with shaping the UK's post-Brexit with the EU, has revealed the government is looking to hire someone to demonstrate the opportunities.

Speaking to a committee of MPs, he said: “We have high hopes of outside input into this process. We’re all fully behind making things happen.”

MORE: How Brexit has turned sour for the dairy industry

MORE: Post-Brexit EU worker exodus hits restaurants and pubs

MORE: Boris Johnson consumed by infighting as Brexit job losses worsen

He said those opportunities could come from financial services regulation, reform to agricultural subsidies, and speeding up clinical trials of drugs. Frost also pointed to subsidy control, changing procurement rules, and freeports where there will be imminent change.

“It’s a huge advantage to a country to be able to design its own laws,” he said. “It is really important that we exercise that freedom in as useful and productive a way we can.”

Commenting on the new role to identify post-Brexit opportunities, former Tory cabinet minister David Gauke tweeted: "Nearly five years after the referendum and the search continues."

"Unbelievable - shouldn't the government have identified opportunities BEFORE they dragged us out of the EU?" asked former civil servant Siobhan Benita.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/westminster-news/boris-johnson-brexit-adviser-7980212

[barrier]

Government seeking adviser with a track record of being economical with the truth. A wild imagination would be an asset.

I can think of someone who fits the bill, except he currently has a different job and wouldn't qualify as "outside input".

Martin Bashir.

[Carana]

Martin Bashir.

Lol. Not the (former) journalist I had in mind...

[faithlilly]

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/10/from-germany-the-uk-appears-ever-more-dysfunctional-and-absurd